Best Served Cold

 

This is, or was (heh heh), the Moskva. Last time I saw her she was still calling herself Slava.

The best version of the story I’ve heard is that the Ukes distracted this sophisticated warship, bristling with radars,  with a drone decoy while they put a couple of homegrown cruise missiles into her. I hope it’s true. Good shooting, guys.

Ships die from fire. Moskva probably took a hit in one of her many magazines; the Reds are calling this an “ammunition explosion.” Ok, so now she’s a wreck inside – you have to put out the fires and control the flooding. Damage control has always been the USN’s other secret weapon, right beside underway replenishment. The Red Navy was never known for the quality of its sailors – so they probably never had good DC.

We weren’t afraid of Slava; her radars were primitive then too. Those city-bus-sized missiles are fast, but fat targets for an SM-2. But we were grateful after the fall of the USSR that we wouldn’t have to run that live test.

Russia’s navy sucks, that’s obvious. How bad does the CIC have to be to let two vampires in? Moskva had plenty of short-range missiles and close-in defensive guns, not to mention all the radar Russia can muster. But the most telling thing is they evacuated the crew.

You can read up on the Slava cruisers at Wikipedia, where the photo above links. Just like the Sukhoi, the Russians do build them pretty.

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  1. Victor Tango Kilo Member
    Victor Tango Kilo
    @VtheK

    Asymmetric warfare is beating the crap out of “superpower” militaries the last couple of years. 

    I’m sure the Taiwanese are studying the lessons from Afghanistan and Taiwan with a level of attention the US military reserves for gender and race studies. 

    • #1
  2. Chuck Thatcher
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    Why are all the big guns pointed down?

    • #2
  3. Captain French Moderator
    Captain French
    @AlFrench

    Now reported sunk while under tow.

    • #3
  4. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Oh, this is too good – Slava was built in Mykolaiv. 

    • #4
  5. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    Asymmetric warfare is beating the crap out of “superpower” militaries the last couple of years.

    I’m sure the Taiwanese are studying the lessons from Afghanistan and Taiwan with a level of attention the US military reserves for gender and race studies.

    “Superpower” militaries are built to fight each other. When they don’t get a set-piece battle, they struggle. We kicked the crap out of the Iraqi army twice. The militias, etc., were what we had trouble with. 

    • #5
  6. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Why are all the big guns pointed down?

    I think they’re pointed forward and up.

    • #6
  7. Chuck Thatcher
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Why are all the big guns pointed down?

    I think they’re pointed forward and up.

    oops.  youre probably correct.

    • #7
  8. Adios Muchacho Inactive
    Adios Muchacho
    @OldDanRhody

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Why are all the big guns pointed down?

    I think they’re pointed forward and up.

    And they look like missile launchers.  The gun is by itself up on the pointy end.

    • #8
  9. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Why are all the big guns pointed down?

    I think they’re pointed forward and up.

    The eight huge tubes inclined at about 20º (and the eight on the other side) are surface-to-surface anti-ship missiles.  She also had lots of surface-to-air missiles in launchers under the deck. The Slavas were built for the same fleet air protection mission as the Aegis cruisers, but carried twice as many anti-ship missiles. Her anti-air missiles were medium range remotely guided with semi-active terminal, like ours. But I don’t think she could carry on many simultaneous engagements. And she had torpedoes, although I don’t know how good her sonar was. But not a lot of guns, just the little dual popgun.

    I get the feeling that most of their stuff failed to work half the time.

    • #9
  10. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Why are all the big guns pointed down?

    I think they’re pointed forward and up.

    They are missile launchers. They hold missile with lots of fuel and explosives. Guess what happens when they get hit by a Neptune missile? The fuel and warhead cooks off. This leads to uncontrollable fires unless you have first-rate damage control teams. Doesn’t look like Moskova did.

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Oh, this is too good – Slava was built in Mykolaiv.

    Mykolaiv has been a major warship shipyard since Tsarist times. They built dreadnought battleships there a little over a century ago.

    • #10
  11. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Barfly (View Comment):
    I get the feeling that most of their stuff failed to work half the time.

    It is my fervent hope that there are still a few men in the Pentagon not too busy experimenting with their mascara to be able to pay attention and learn from this war. What an opportunity to watch Russian forces at work….

    • #11
  12. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Adios Muchacho (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Why are all the big guns pointed down?

    I think they’re pointed forward and up.

    And they look like missile launchers. The gun is by itself up on the pointy end.

    It doesn’t look like it’s pointing downward either, but rather up and forward (toward the — and I don’t mean to be pedantic, but — I think it’s called the nose).

    • #12
  13. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Adios Muchacho (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Why are all the big guns pointed down?

    I think they’re pointed forward and up.

    And they look like missile launchers. The gun is by itself up on the pointy end.

    It doesn’t look like it’s pointing downward either, but rather up and forward (toward the — and I don’t mean to be pedantic, but — I think it’s called the nose).

    You’re doing that on purpose.

    • #13
  14. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    So, this is the second ship sunk by the Ukrainians?

    • #14
  15. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    Even better that it was the one that took Snake Island after the Ukrainian soldiers told them to &$%# ‘…….

    • #15
  16. Quietpi Member
    Quietpi
    @Quietpi

    It’s being said that this was the fleet flagship, and apparently has been confirmed that it was the command and control center for the operation.  Therefore, I would expect there to be a very high – ranking naval officer aboard, no?  Besides a ship, have the Ukrainians scored another admiral / general?

    • #16
  17. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Quietpi (View Comment):

    It’s being said that this was the fleet flagship, and apparently has been confirmed that it was the command and control center for the operation. Therefore, I would expect there to be a very high – ranking naval officer aboard, no? Besides a ship, have the Ukrainians scored another admiral / general?

    Probably not, if the crew was successfully evacuated, according to some reports.  Although there may have been casualties before that.

    • #17
  18. Sisyphus Member
    Sisyphus
    @Sisyphus

    Quietpi (View Comment):

    It’s being said that this was the fleet flagship, and apparently has been confirmed that it was the command and control center for the operation. Therefore, I would expect there to be a very high – ranking naval officer aboard, no? Besides a ship, have the Ukrainians scored another admiral / general?

    You seriously think Russian officers go down with their ships?

    • #18
  19. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Sisyphus (View Comment):

    Quietpi (View Comment):

    It’s being said that this was the fleet flagship, and apparently has been confirmed that it was the command and control center for the operation. Therefore, I would expect there to be a very high – ranking naval officer aboard, no? Besides a ship, have the Ukrainians scored another admiral / general?

    You seriously think Russian officers go down with their ships?

    Might have been killed in the attack/explosions.  but perhaps unlikely.

    • #19
  20. E. Kent Golding Member
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    Sisyphus (View Comment):

    Quietpi (View Comment):

    It’s being said that this was the fleet flagship, and apparently has been confirmed that it was the command and control center for the operation. Therefore, I would expect there to be a very high – ranking naval officer aboard, no? Besides a ship, have the Ukrainians scored another admiral / general?

    You seriously think Russian officers go down with their ships?

    He may develop health issues when he gets back to port.   This one is going to  be tough to explain.

    • #20
  21. Victor Tango Kilo Member
    Victor Tango Kilo
    @VtheK

    It’s a bit like when the Royal Navy lost  HMS Sheffield in the Falkland Islands war. And HMS Coventry. And HMS Ardent. And the Sir Galahad. 

    • #21
  22. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Victor Tango Kilo (View Comment):

    Asymmetric warfare is beating the crap out of “superpower” militaries the last couple of years.

    I’m sure the Taiwanese are studying the lessons from Afghanistan and Taiwan with a level of attention the US military reserves for gender and race studies.

    What? The US lost less men in Afghanistan the last 7 years than Russia probably lost on the Moskva in the last 36 hours. The US didn’t have military problems in Afghanistan it was purely the civilian side-no political will and no vision of what our long term goals where.

    Russian OTOH is having severe military problems- they can’t sustain logistics 94 miles away while the US army had excellent logistical support halfway around the world.

    • #22
  23. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    When I was in the Navy, we were told Russia likes to build its surface warships with a lot of weapons, then cram even more topside.  That many exposed weapons are vulnerable to attack and could easily explode, setting of a chain reaction as they are packed close together . . .

    • #23
  24. JoelB Member
    JoelB
    @JoelB

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Oh, this is too good – Slava was built in Mykolaiv.

    I have been trying to remember the city of my late Ukranian friend, Peter, who came here as a religious refugee. He told me long ago that his city was closed to tourists because of the naval facilities. Your comment rang a bell. I am pretty sure now that this is it.

    • #24
  25. JoelB Member
    JoelB
    @JoelB

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Why are all the big guns pointed down?

    I think they’re pointed forward and up.

    The eight huge tubes inclined at about 20º (and the eight on the other side) are surface-to-surface anti-ship missiles. She also had lots of surface-to-air missiles in launchers under the deck. The Slavas were built for the same fleet air protection mission as the Aegis cruisers, but carried twice as many anti-ship missiles. Her anti-air missiles were medium range remotely guided with semi-active terminal, like ours. But I don’t think she could carry on many simultaneous engagements. And she had torpedoes, although I don’t know how good her sonar was. But not a lot of guns, just the little dual popgun.

    I get the feeling that most of their stuff failed to work half the time.

    When we think about the effects that socialism has on how things work here, we should not be too surprised that the Russian armed forces are not as invincible as their appearance might lead us to believe. Of course we should never count on that being the case, but it is a cause for hope. I suspect that the same goes for the Communist Chinese.

    • #25
  26. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Stad (View Comment):

    When I was in the Navy, we were told Russia likes to build its surface warships with a lot of weapons, then cram even more topside. That many exposed weapons are vulnerable to attack and could easily explode, setting of a chain reaction as they are packed close together . . .

    The Soviets didn’t anticipate their ships lasting long in an exchange with the US navy- they wanted to be able to fire off all their cruise missiles in the 1st volley, hence they were all up on the deck (note no reloads carried for their major weapon system). Their ships were cramped and difficult to repair at sea, making damage control an after thought. They aimed for what the US called a “Joe Louis with a glass jaw”- good 1st punch but it better land or else.

    • #26
  27. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    JoelB (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Why are all the big guns pointed down?

    I think they’re pointed forward and up.

    The eight huge tubes inclined at about 20º (and the eight on the other side) are surface-to-surface anti-ship missiles. She also had lots of surface-to-air missiles in launchers under the deck. The Slavas were built for the same fleet air protection mission as the Aegis cruisers, but carried twice as many anti-ship missiles. Her anti-air missiles were medium range remotely guided with semi-active terminal, like ours. But I don’t think she could carry on many simultaneous engagements. And she had torpedoes, although I don’t know how good her sonar was. But not a lot of guns, just the little dual popgun.

    I get the feeling that most of their stuff failed to work half the time.

    When we think about the effects that socialism has on how things work here, we should not be too surprised that the Russian armed forces are not as invincible as their appearance might lead us to believe. Of course we should never count on that being the case, but it is a cause for hope. I suspect that the same goes for the Communist Chinese.

    And soon for our forces as well

    • #27
  28. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    EHerring (View Comment):

    JoelB (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Why are all the big guns pointed down?

    I think they’re pointed forward and up.

    The eight huge tubes inclined at about 20º (and the eight on the other side) are surface-to-surface anti-ship missiles. She also had lots of surface-to-air missiles in launchers under the deck. The Slavas were built for the same fleet air protection mission as the Aegis cruisers, but carried twice as many anti-ship missiles. Her anti-air missiles were medium range remotely guided with semi-active terminal, like ours. But I don’t think she could carry on many simultaneous engagements. And she had torpedoes, although I don’t know how good her sonar was. But not a lot of guns, just the little dual popgun.

    I get the feeling that most of their stuff failed to work half the time.

    When we think about the effects that socialism has on how things work here, we should not be too surprised that the Russian armed forces are not as invincible as their appearance might lead us to believe. Of course we should never count on that being the case, but it is a cause for hope. I suspect that the same goes for the Communist Chinese.

    And soon for our forces as well

    Sadly, this may be true as more time is spent on trendy leftist policies and less on killing people and breaking things . . .

    • #28
  29. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    There are scattered news reports that the Moskova may have had nuclear warheads on board.  

    • #29
  30. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Lots of mean tweets- they might provoke Vlad:

     

    • #30
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