Why Have a Democracy?

 

(Photo: Eliot Cohen by Eric Gibson/ New America via Wikipedia)

Eliot Cohen is a Never-Trump, former Bush Administration State Department official who was interviewed on the “Limited Liability” podcast released April 13 by Jewish Insider. Assessing the situation in Ukraine, Cohen heavily criticized all three of the post-Bush 43 Administrations. But this quote is what stood out for me:

The Trump administration was very peculiar in that it was a little bit like 18th century France, you know, where the king had one foreign policy and the, you know, foreign policy establishment of the time had a different foreign policy, sometimes diametrically opposed. And, you know, I think it’s fair to say that a lot of the, you know, sort of the H.R. McMasters and John Boltons in this world were actually resolutely anti-Russian. Trump was not. Trump was pro-Putin. (27:42 to 28:08)

Neither of the hosts, former Trump official Rich Goldberg or former Obama official Jerrod Bernstein, pushed back in any way. And that’s appalling in and of itself. A statement such as this shows that, according to the foreign policy “experts,” the President of the United States should have no say in the policy of the country he was elected to lead. As long as there is a “consensus” among the elites, the opinions of the President and the people are irrelevant. (And that’s not even touching on the veracity of the “pro-Putin” remark.)

So, as the Never-Trumpers drone on about “saving our democracy,” I ask “What democracy?” I certainly do not support giving any president of any party a blank check. But shouldn’t all the checks on the Executive come from the co-equal branches of the government and not from within the Executive Branch itself? If the President of the United States has no authority over his own constitutional branch of government, why have elections in the first place? We can just as easily autopilot ourselves into WWIII, no?

People like Cohen expect the President to be both their empty vessel and their fall guy when everything goes south. This is not the sign of a healthy “democracy.”

Published in Foreign Policy
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 133 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):
    Those appointees can assign or reassign members of the bureaucracy who do not perform as expected.

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Also, Trump had absolute authority to remove members of the National Security Council staff such as LTC Vindman.

    The Director of the National Security Council could do that but didn’t do his job. Cause here would not have been differences in policy view but simple insubordination by Vindman. Vindman was taking information to another agency and Congress without any authority to do that.

    You think the POTUS should be digging down into these organizations to find insubordinate bureaucrats?

    So now your excuse is Trump hired someone incapable of doing his job? What happened to Trump only hiring the best people?

    Well, funny you should ask that. If Obama’s people hadn’t railroaded General Michael Flynn out of that job, Vindman would have never happened. And it is not a lack of capability to do the job, it is people who think they know better. Are you blind?

    The “people who think they know better” were his subordinates whom he was incapable of managing.

    There seem to be a lot of people coming out now, making baseless accusations, saying, Oh, NO!  Trump!!

    So Trump is probably the right guy if he has everyone coming out of the woodwork scrambling again. But don’t worry, the election process is so corrupted it would take a true miracle for Trump to get elected again.  President Buttigig and VP 0bama here we come.  Or would Michelle be on top in the ticket?

    • #61
  2. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    @ klaatu I know you have never been a supporter of President Trump but he was not even close to the biggest problem in the federal government. We are seeing the manifestation of that now. And we did see this as it played out in the Trump Administration, our federal bureaucracy is loaded with those who will join criminal activity and corruption in a New York minute. In your commentary you only lay these things on Trump and that is far from the true condition.

    Trump was and remains a disaster for the country and the conservative movement.

    That Trump was incapable of performing the most basic functions of his office was the least of his issues.

    You seem to be lacking many revealed facts regarding the criminal behavior of Trump’s political enemies. You need to keep up with where we are today.

    What Trump’s political enemies may or may have not done have little to no bearing on his effectiveness (or lack thereof) in leading the organization he was elected to.

    Stop making excuses for his rank incompetence.

    • #62
  3. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    @ klaatu I know you have never been a supporter of President Trump but he was not even close to the biggest problem in the federal government. We are seeing the manifestation of that now. And we did see this as it played out in the Trump Administration, our federal bureaucracy is loaded with those who will join criminal activity and corruption in a New York minute. In your commentary you only lay these things on Trump and that is far from the true condition.

    Trump was and remains a disaster for the country and the conservative movement.

    That Trump was incapable of performing the most basic functions of his office was the least of his issues.

    How the hell was Trump a disaster for the country?   I’d sure as hell take the Trump years with cheap gas and no Bidenflation, growing peace in the Middle East, and an aggressive stance against wokeness and illegal immigration.   Regarding the 2020 election, it was a dumpster fire.   If pointing that out makes people question our elections, maybe we should try to fix the problems with the election system rather than just shut up anyone who dissents.

    Trump actually accomplished things that conservatives claimed to want to do.  I will take a successful jerk over a sacred loser like the people you support.   You have to be willing to be utterly hated in order to be a conservative leader today.  If you are the GOP candidate for president, millions of people will get up each hoping that you die in horrible agony.  Some of those people are in the Federal Government.

    • #63
  4. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):
    Those appointees can assign or reassign members of the bureaucracy who do not perform as expected.

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Also, Trump had absolute authority to remove members of the National Security Council staff such as LTC Vindman.

    The Director of the National Security Council could do that but didn’t do his job. Cause here would not have been differences in policy view but simple insubordination by Vindman. Vindman was taking information to another agency and Congress without any authority to do that.

    You think the POTUS should be digging down into these organizations to find insubordinate bureaucrats?

    So now your excuse is Trump hired someone incapable of doing his job? What happened to Trump only hiring the best people?

    Well, funny you should ask that. If Obama’s people hadn’t railroaded General Michael Flynn out of that job, Vindman would have never happened. And it is not a lack of capability to do the job, it is people who think they know better. Are you blind?

    Obama’s people forced Flynn to lie to the VP?

    He’s lied? What was the lie. The VP said he lied, but that was just Pence.

    He lied to pence regarding the nature of his discussions with the Russians prior to taking office.  

    • #64
  5. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    @ klaatu I know you have never been a supporter of President Trump but he was not even close to the biggest problem in the federal government. We are seeing the manifestation of that now. And we did see this as it played out in the Trump Administration, our federal bureaucracy is loaded with those who will join criminal activity and corruption in a New York minute. In your commentary you only lay these things on Trump and that is far from the true condition.

    Trump was and remains a disaster for the country and the conservative movement.

    That Trump was incapable of performing the most basic functions of his office was the least of his issues.

    How the hell was Trump a disaster for the country? I’d sure as hell take the Trump years with cheap gas and no Bidenflation, growing peace in the Middle East, and an aggressive stance against wokeness and illegal immigration. Regarding the 2020 election, it was a dumpster fire. If pointing that out makes people question our elections, maybe we should try to fix the problems with the election system rather than just shut up anyone who dissents.

    Trump actually accomplished things that conservatives claimed to want to do. I will take a successful jerk over a sacred loser like the people you support. You have to be willing to be utterly hated in order to be a conservative leader today. If you are the GOP candidate for president, millions of people will get up each hoping that you die in horrible agony. Some of those people are in the Federal Government.

    Presidents don’t control gasoline prices.  The government spending fueling current inflation was appropriated under Trump and Biden.

    There were no significant problems in the 2020 elections.

    Exactly what was Trump successful in doing?

    • #65
  6. DrewInWisconsin, Oik! Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik!
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):
    Presidents don’t control gasoline prices.

    It’s like you are absolutely clueless about domestic energy policy.

     

    • #66
  7. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):
    Presidents don’t control gasoline prices.

    It’s like you are absolutely clueless about domestic energy policy.

     

    Domestic energy policy you say?  Which of Trump’s policies caused the average price for a gallon to go from $2.09 in early 2017 to $2.88 18mo later?

    • #67
  8. DrewInWisconsin, Oik! Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik!
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):
    Presidents don’t control gasoline prices.

    It’s like you are absolutely clueless about domestic energy policy.

    Domestic energy policy you say? Which of Trump’s policies caused the average price for a gallon to go from $2.09 in early 2017 to $2.88 18mo later?

    Lemme guess. This is “Putin’s Price Hike” we’re experiencing today.

     

    • #68
  9. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):
    Presidents don’t control gasoline prices.

    It’s like you are absolutely clueless about domestic energy policy.

    Domestic energy policy you say? Which of Trump’s policies caused the average price for a gallon to go from $2.09 in early 2017 to $2.88 18mo later?

    Lemme guess. This is “Putin’s Price Hike” we’re experiencing today.

     

    There are many reason the global price of crude (and therefore gasoline) has risen, including the Russian invasion of Ukraine.  The increase in demand post pandemic is also big reason. https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2022/03/09/the-real-reason-behind-surging-gas-prices/?sh=7ca99f226ded

    • #69
  10. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu): Presidents don’t control gasoline prices.

    That’s not what I was told.

    You cannot be that economically illiterate to believe that government policy restricting the domestic production of a commodity where futures are traded do not impact the price of said commodity. 

    • #70
  11. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu): Presidents don’t control gasoline prices.

    That’s not what I was told.

    You cannot be that economically illiterate to believe that government policy restricting the domestic production of a commodity where futures are traded do not impact the price of said commodity.

    Hmmm… you mean Chuck Schumer said something that wasn’t true?  Shocking.

    And you can’t be naive enough to believe pent up post pandemic demand would not raise the prices of commodities.

    • #71
  12. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)And you can’t be naive enough to believe pent up post pandemic demand would not raise the prices of commodities.

    Because, obviously, no one believed the pandemic would end and so no one planned for it. It was just a surprise that came out of the blue. Like all economic numbers, “totally unexpected.”

    • #72
  13. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu): And you can’t be naive enough to believe pent up post pandemic demand would not raise the prices of commodities.

    Because, obviously, no one believed the pandemic would end and so no one planned for it. It was just a surprise that came out of the blue. Like all economic numbers, “totally unexpected.”

    You realize the people who would have had to do the work necessary to “prepare” for the pandemic to end were also affected by the pandemic, right?  

    • #73
  14. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu): You realize the people who would have had to do the work necessary to “prepare” for the pandemic to end were also affected by the pandemic, right?

    In 2020 the petroleum industry laid off a ton of workers. There was a substantial pool of healthy, skilled and available workers. Perhaps you heard about this class of individuals who were deemed as “essential” (such as my wife who worked every damn day until she was forced to quarantine for an asymptomatic infection.) Maybe your world stopped, but for everyone else it did not. 

    • #74
  15. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu): You realize the people who would have had to do the work necessary to “prepare” for the pandemic to end were also affected by the pandemic, right?

    In 2020 the petroleum industry laid off a ton of workers. There was a substantial pool of healthy, skilled and available workers. Perhaps you heard about this class of individuals who were deemed as “essential” (such as my wife who worked every damn day until she was forced to quarantine for an asymptomatic infection.) Maybe your world stopped, but for everyone else it did not.

    Not sure what your argument is, is it petroleum workers, ship crews, refinery workers, etc… around the world should have been deemed essential workers and continued to work to satisfy a non existing demand?

    • #75
  16. DrewInWisconsin, Oik! Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik!
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Our economy was screwed the moment politicians decided to shut it down for a virus, declaring that certain businesses could stay open (big box stores), others had to close (small businesses), some workers were essential and others were not, and then tried to make everything better with stimulus and bailouts.

    You do not throw the brakes on a nation’s economy like that. Ever. Not for a war, not for a virus, not for anything. Not unless you’re trying to destroy that nation. And it’s quite likely that Biden’s puppet masters are.

    But absolutely shutting down energy production in the U.S. on the basis of transitioning to all renewables is the reason for the skyrocketing costs. Under President Trump we were the world’s chief exporter. Now Joe Biden is begging Saudi Arabia to open the taps.

    Anyone who thinks a President’s energy policies have no effect on fuel prices is welcome to pay my heating bill and fill up my gas tank.

    • #76
  17. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    Our economy was screwed the moment politicians decided to shut it down for a virus, declaring that certain businesses could stay open (big box stores), others had to close (small businesses), some workers were essential and others were not, and then tried to make everything better with stimulus and bailouts.

    You do not throw the brakes on a nation’s economy like that. Ever. Not for a war, not for a virus, not for anything. Not unless you’re trying to destroy that nation. And it’s quite likely that Biden’s puppet masters are.

    But absolutely shutting down energy production in the U.S. on the basis of transitioning to all renewables is the reason for the skyrocketing costs. Under President Trump we were the world’s chief exporter. Now Joe Biden is begging Saudi Arabia to open the taps.

    Anyone who thinks a President’s energy policies have no effect on fuel prices is welcome to pay my heating bill and fill up my gas tank.

    “Biden’s puppet masters”?  Who was President when those decisions were made?

    By no means has anyone shut down energy production in the US.

    • #77
  18. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu): Not sure what your argument is, is it petroleum workers, ship crews, refinery workers, etc… around the world should have been deemed essential workers and continued to work to satisfy a non existing demand?

    Absolutely. Unlike other commodities, oil is not perishable. And since the process from well to pump spans months, not days, its a business that’s not as driven by short-term consumer demands. Planning is done by years and decades, not by weeks and months.

    • #78
  19. DrewInWisconsin, Oik! Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik!
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    By no means has anyone shut down energy production in the US.

    Okay, boomercon.

    • #79
  20. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu): Not sure what your argument is, is it petroleum workers, ship crews, refinery workers, etc… around the world should have been deemed essential workers and continued to work to satisfy a non existing demand?

    Absolutely. Unlike other commodities, oil is not perishable. And since the process from well to pump spans months, not days, its a business that’s not as driven by short-term consumer demands. Planning is done by years and decades, not by weeks and months.

    So oil companies should have continued to pay workers to produce, transport, (refine?) a product for which there was no demand (no customers)?

    • #80
  21. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    @ klaatu I know you have never been a supporter of President Trump but he was not even close to the biggest problem in the federal government. We are seeing the manifestation of that now. And we did see this as it played out in the Trump Administration, our federal bureaucracy is loaded with those who will join criminal activity and corruption in a New York minute. In your commentary you only lay these things on Trump and that is far from the true condition.

    Trump was and remains a disaster for the country and the conservative movement.

    That Trump was incapable of performing the most basic functions of his office was the least of his issues.

    If Trump was a disaster for the conservative movement, I’d hate to think what Bush was. 

    • #81
  22. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    By no means has anyone shut down energy production in the US.

    Okay, boomercon.

    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus2&f=m

    • #82
  23. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    @ klaatu I know you have never been a supporter of President Trump but he was not even close to the biggest problem in the federal government. We are seeing the manifestation of that now. And we did see this as it played out in the Trump Administration, our federal bureaucracy is loaded with those who will join criminal activity and corruption in a New York minute. In your commentary you only lay these things on Trump and that is far from the true condition.

    Trump was and remains a disaster for the country and the conservative movement.

    That Trump was incapable of performing the most basic functions of his office was the least of his issues.

    If Trump was a disaster for the conservative movement, I’d hate to think what Bush was.

    A two term president.

    • #83
  24. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)So oil companies should have continued to pay workers to produce, transport, (refine?) a product for which there was no demand (no customers)?

    There is never “no demand.” There are cyclical markets in which demand is down, but it is never non-existent. So, yes, there are times when it makes sense to continue to produce a non-perishable whose demand is almost certainly going to rebound and is a major driver in the overall economy.

    Of the trillions of dollars spent in the last 20 years seeking an alternative energy source the demand for petroleum driven energy has only declined 2% in that time. It is not going to reach no demand and no customers in our lifetimes, short of a nuclear holocaust.

    • #84
  25. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu): So oil companies should have continued to pay workers to produce, transport, (refine?) a product for which there was no demand (no customers)?

    There is never “no demand.” There are cyclical markets in which demand is down, but it is never non-existent. So, yes, there are times when it makes sense to continue to produce a non-perishable whose demand is almost certainly going to rebound and is a major driver in the overall economy.

    Of the trillions of dollars spent in the last 20 years seeking an alternative energy source the demand for petroleum driven energy has only declined 2% in that time. It is not going to reach no demand and no customers in our lifetimes, short of a nuclear holocaust.

    There was incredibly reduced demand and there was no reason to continue to spend money when you had no idea when it was going to be recouped.

    • #85
  26. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    @ klaatu I know you have never been a supporter of President Trump but he was not even close to the biggest problem in the federal government. We are seeing the manifestation of that now. And we did see this as it played out in the Trump Administration, our federal bureaucracy is loaded with those who will join criminal activity and corruption in a New York minute. In your commentary you only lay these things on Trump and that is far from the true condition.

    Trump was and remains a disaster for the country and the conservative movement.

    That Trump was incapable of performing the most basic functions of his office was the least of his issues.

    How the hell was Trump a disaster for the country? I’d sure as hell take the Trump years with cheap gas and no Bidenflation, growing peace in the Middle East, and an aggressive stance against wokeness and illegal immigration. Regarding the 2020 election, it was a dumpster fire. If pointing that out makes people question our elections, maybe we should try to fix the problems with the election system rather than just shut up anyone who dissents.

    Trump actually accomplished things that conservatives claimed to want to do. I will take a successful jerk over a sacred loser like the people you support. You have to be willing to be utterly hated in order to be a conservative leader today. If you are the GOP candidate for president, millions of people will get up each hoping that you die in horrible agony. Some of those people are in the Federal Government.

    Presidents don’t control gasoline prices. The government spending fueling current inflation was appropriated under Trump and Biden.

    There were no significant problems in the 2020 elections.

    Exactly what was Trump successful in doing?

    No, not directly.  A president can determine the degree of government interference in oil production and distribution, and thus the domestic production of oil.  This is the basis of the conservative approach to regulation: using the lightest touch possible.   Government interference can shut down an industry or make it unprofitable.

    Private funding of elections, all of the fortification efforts admitted by liberals, and growing reports of anomalies don’t bother you at all?

    In the Middle East, ISIS was crushed, our embassy was moved to Jerusalem, and the Abraham Accords were signed.   We saw some of the first pushback on the persecution of men by college administration.  3 solid USSC justices, along with tons of other judges.   Operation Warp Speed, at least if you aren’t an anti-vaccine guy.

    Still waiting for some evidence that Trump was a disaster.

    • #86
  27. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    @omegapaladin  Gasoline prices are not currently rising due to govt regulation and the effects of such regulations would be felt in the long term not responsible for spikes.

    Nothing about the elections in 2020 cause me any concern nor should they anyone else.  They were as free and fair as we have ever experienced.

    Nothing you listed among Trump’s alleged successes was legislative nor anything any other GOP president would have done, excepting maybe moving the US Embassy in Israel.

    I can only assume you mean “Other than refusing to accept an election loss and inspiring, at the least, if not instigating a violent attack on the US Capitol in an attempt overturn an election,” how was Trump a disaster?

    • #87
  28. DrewInWisconsin, Oik! Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik!
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Nothing about the elections in 2020 cause me any concern nor should they anyone else. They were as free and fair as we have ever experienced.

    Okay, this is simply delusional nonsense. There’s no point in engaging someone who is this far removed from reality.

     

    • #88
  29. Neil Hansen (Klaatu) Inactive
    Neil Hansen (Klaatu)
    @Klaatu

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Nothing about the elections in 2020 cause me any concern nor should they anyone else. They were as free and fair as we have ever experienced.

    Okay, this is simply delusional nonsense. There’s no point in engaging someone who is this far removed from reality.

     

    Then point out specifically what no member of Trump’s legal team was able to in any court in the country.

    • #89
  30. DrewInWisconsin, Oik! Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik!
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik! (View Comment):

    Neil Hansen (Klaatu) (View Comment):

    Nothing about the elections in 2020 cause me any concern nor should they anyone else. They were as free and fair as we have ever experienced.

    Okay, this is simply delusional nonsense. There’s no point in engaging someone who is this far removed from reality.

    Then point out specifically what no member of Trump’s legal team was able to in any court in the country.

    No, instead, I want you to refute every item in this thread: https://ricochet.com/822533/keeping-track-of-election-fraud/

    Since you claim the 2020 election was “as free and fair as we have ever experienced,” you should have no problem taking each item to pieces.

    Go for it man.

    • #90
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.