Russia’s Plan for Ukraine? Genocide

 

Russia has dropped the maskirovka about its goals in the “Special Operation” in Ukraine.  RIA Novosty, a Russian Federation state-owned domestic news agency recently published an article that outlines the real goals of their invasion. It’s as if Goebbels had published a synopsis of the Wannsee Conference in the Völkischer Beobachter.

From Putin’s initial lie that the “special Operation” was aimed at liberating the Ukrainian population from its evil Nazi government, the article expands the aim of exterminating Ukrainian nationhood. Forever. What follows are some of the highlights of the article.

You can read the entire article, rescued by the Wayback Machine, here.

The operation to de-nazify Ukraine, which has started with a military phase, will follow in peacetime the same logic of progression as the military operation. With each step, it will be necessary to succeed in implementing irreversible changes, which would become the building blocks of the following step. For this, the necessary first steps of de-nazification can be defined the following way:

•     The liquidation of armed Nazi formation (which is understood to include any Ukrainian armed formations, including the Armed Forces of Ukraine), as well as anything that assists in their military, informational, and educational infrastructure

•      The creation of bodies for popular self-rule, as well as law enforcement (both for security and law and order) on liberated territory, to protective people from terrorist acts of insurgent Nazi groups

•     The implementation of the Russian information space

•     The seizure of any educational materials, and a band on educational programs, at all levels, that contain Nazi ideological attitudes

•     Mass investigations to establish personal accountability for war crimes, crimes against humanity, spreading of Nazi ideology and supporting the Nazi regime

•     Lustration, publicizing the names of the accomplices of the Nazi regime, engaging them in forced labor to repair destroyed infrastructure as part of their punishment for Nazi activities (for those that wouldn’t be sentenced to death or imprisonment)

•     The adoption, at a local level, under Russian advisement, primary normative acts of “grassroots” de-nazification, a ban on all types and forms of reviving Nazi ideology

•     The creation of memorials, commemorative signs, and monuments to the victims of Ukrainian Nazism, and the immortalization of the memory of the heroes that fought against it

•     The creation and adoption of a series of anti-fascist and de-nazificative norms in the constitutions of these new people’s republics

•     The creation of a constantly operating body of de-nazification, for a period of 25 years

Russia will have no compatriots in its de-nazification of Ukraine, seeing as this is purely Russian work, as well as considering that it is not just the Banderite version of Nazi Ukraine that will be eradicated, but also and most of all, Western totalitarianism, the forced programs of civilizational degradation and ruin, the mechanisms of subjugation to the superpower of the West and the USA.

In order to realize the plan of Ukrainian de-nazification, Russian life itself will have to finally rid itself of its pro-European and pro-Western illusions, and accept itself as the last line of defense, and the preserver of, those values of historic Europe (the Old World), which it deserves, and from which the West has ultimately abandoned, losing in a war against itself.

But wait there is more.

De-nazification is necessary when a sizable part of the population – most likely, the majority – has mastered and drawn in the Nazi regime into its politics.

That is, when the theory “the people are good, the government is bad” no longer holds true.

Get that?  The majority of Ukrainians are hopelessly Nazi. And Nazis cannot live.

War criminals and active Nazis have to made an example of. There has to be a total lustration – the liquidation and ban of any organizations that ties themselves to the practice of Nazism. However, aside from the leadership, a good part of the population is also responsible here, who are themselves passive Nazis, accomplices to Nazism.

They supported the Nazi government, and indulged it.

A just punishment for this part of the population can only be found in the burden of the hardships of a just war against the Nazi system,

Denazification can only be conducted by the victor, which assumes 1) its unconditional control over the de-nazification process, and 2) an authority that can facilitate this control. In this respect, a country undergoing de-nazification cannot be sovereign. The de-nazification-leading government – Russia – cannot proceed from a liberal approach regarding denazification.

The ideology of the de-nazifying party cannot be disputed by the guilty party, subjected to de-nazification. Russia’s call for the necessity of de-nazification means that the Crimean scenario cannot work for Ukraine as whole. In fact, this scenario was already unrealistic in 2014, and in the rebellious Donbas.

The Nazification of Ukraine took more than 30 years – starting at a minimum in 1989, when Ukrainian nationalism receive a legal and legitimate form of political self-expression and spearheaded the movement for “independence”, leaning towards Nazism.

A particular feature of Nazified Ukraine is its amorphousness and ambivalentness, which allows for the masking of Nazism as a desire to move towards an “independent” and “European” (Western and pro-American) path of development, (in reality – towards degradation), while insisting that Ukraine “doesn’t have any Nazism, only private and singular excesses.”

An independent Ukraine, that wants to be part of the West, cannot be permitted to exist.

The name “Ukraine,” seemingly, cannot be retained as the title of any fully denazified state entity in a territory liberated from the Nazi regime. The people’s republics, newly created in the space free from Nazism, should and will grow from the practice of economic self-government and social security, and the restoration and modernization of social support systems for the population.

Again, Ukraine cannot exist.

 De-nazification will inevitably be expressed as de-Ukrainianization – the rejection of the artificially divided ethnic component of self-identification, created as far back as under Soviet authority, of the population of the historical territories of Malorossiya and Novorossiya.

Unlike, say, Georgia and the Baltic states, Ukraine, as history has shown, cannot exist in the form of a national government, and attempts to “build” it as such, naturally leads to Nazism. Ukrainianism is an artificial anti-Russian construct, which does not have any civilizational content of its own, and is a subordinate element of a foreign and alien civilization.

This part is particularly sweet.  The way you define a “Nazi” is anyone who wants to be Ukrainian.

De-nazification, as a goal of the special military operation, within the the scope of that operation, is understood as a military victory over the Kyiv regime, the liberation of the territory from armed Nazi supporters, the liquidation of irreconcilable Nazis, the capture of war criminals, as well as the creation of a system of conditions for the following peace-time de-nazification.

The latter, in turn, should begin with the organization of local self-government, law enforcement, and defense bodies, cleansed of Nazi elements. This can be used as the basis to launch the founding processes of a new republican statehood, integrating this statehood into close cooperation with the Russian department for Ukrainian de-nazification (newly created or converted, say, from Rossotrudnichestvo). This, along with the adoption, under Russian control, of a republican regulatory framework (legislation) on de-nazification, the definition of the boundaries and framework for the direct application of Russian law and Russian jurisdiction in the liberated territories in the field of de-nazification, and the creation of a tribunal for crimes against humanity in the former Ukraine. In this regard, Russia should act as the guardian of the Nuremberg Trials.

The plan is to destroy Ukraine as a political entity, to cleanse the land of anyone who longs for independence or even a national identity. To Russia, Ukraine has never existed and is only a part of Mother Russia that must be returned to its status as “Malorus” (Little Russia).  Ukrainian culture will be illegal.  The language will be suppressed. Publishing in Ukrainian will be banned.  Because it’s Nazi.

This is not the first time Ukrainians have been the unwelcome recipients of Russia’s special love. Catherine the Great showed it. Multiple Tsars showed it. Stalin showed it. And Ukraine survived them all. I have no doubt Putler will fail as well, but not before causing immense death and destruction in his Genocide.

Published in Foreign Policy
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  1. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    It’s about the opposite of what we did.

    • #31
  2. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    To me, the description of this Russian program looks pretty similar to the way that we handled West Germany after WWII.

    I am skeptical of the claim (in this Russian source) that there are large numbers of Nazis in Ukraine. There do seem to be a troubling minority, and that minority seems to have received governmental support that also seems troubling. It’s probably complicated, though.

    I wouldn’t blame a Ukrainian for being a nationalist. That actually seems appropriate, to me. The challenge seems to be demographic complexity, with a mix of Ukrainian and Russian people, culture, and language (and some smaller groups, but these are the big two). I’m skeptical of the ability of such a multi-cultural state to hold together, particularly in the post-French Revolution age of nationalism.

    This is overlaid by a culturally assertive Western European influence moving into Ukraine, an influence that I find unappealing, with its focus on feminism and the whole homosexual and trans agenda. I could see why Russians would be unhappy about such a culture moving eastward.

    Regarding -“

    To me, the description of this Russian program looks pretty similar to the way that we handled West Germany after WWII.

    I am skeptical of the claim (in this Russian source) that there are large numbers of Nazis in Ukraine. ”

    it’s actually not at all like that.   Because “Nazi“ is defined as anyone who identifies as either pro Western or as Ukrainian.

    • #32
  3. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Stad (View Comment):

    Hmmmm. The left likes to call conservatives racists and Nazis. Perhaps the future they plan for us is similar . . .

    Yes, it is. 

    • #33
  4. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    True but I don’t think, at least as of this point in time, we actually have any proof of that Ukraine is a Neo-Nazi state. This isn’t to say there aren’t some troubling ties to a Neo-Nazi groups. When we took over Germany we had proof of what they were and what they had done. That makes a lot of difference.

    We have more than enough evidence of Ukrainian corruption and American participation in that corruption. And the Nazis while few in relative numbers (they would get between 2 and 3 percent in elections) were very highly placed in the military and in the Dept. of Interior (the security services).

    Oh, good grief! So what Putin is doing is not conducting an un-provoked war, he’s conducting an anti-corruption campaign? Do I understand what you are saying?

    • #34
  5. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Putin has already succeeded in de-populating about 10% of Ukraine by driving them out of the country as refugees.   Another 15% are displaced within Ukraine and will flee further if Putin advances.   You think they’ll be welcome home if Putin wins?

    • #35
  6. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    Absolute and utter nonsense.  We didn’t try  to eliminate Germany as a distinct ethnicity and nation state.  

    • #36
  7. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):
    Putin is calling them Nazis because Russia has what essentially amounts to a cult of WWII, or, as they would refer to it, Великая Отечественная война/Great Patriotic War.

    From the end of the article

    This war stretched out for the entirely of the 20th century, and was expressed in a world war and in the Russian revolution, which are inextricably linked to each other.

    Russia has done all it can to save the West in the 20th century. It helped implement that important Western project, an alternative capitalism, which won it nation-states – the red, socialist project. It destroyed German Nazism – a monstrous product of the crisis of Western civilization. The last act of Russian altruism was the hand of friendship offered by Russia, for which Russian received that horrific blow of the 1990s.

    Everything that Russia did for the West, it did out of its own pocket, while making massive sacrifices. The West, in the end, rejected all of these sacrifices, devalued Russia’s contribution to resolving the Western crisis, decided to take revenge on Russia for the help that it had selflessly provided. Now, Russia will go its own way, without worrying about the fate of the West, drawing on the other part of its heritage – leading the global process of decolonization.

     

    Poor maligned Russia, that has done soooooo much for the West .

     

    • #37
  8. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    True but I don’t think, at least as of this point in time, we actually have any proof of that Ukraine is a Neo-Nazi state. This isn’t to say there aren’t some troubling ties to a Neo-Nazi groups. When we took over Germany we had proof of what they were and what they had done. That makes a lot of difference.

    We have more than enough evidence of Ukrainian corruption and American participation in that corruption. And the Nazis while few in relative numbers (they would get between 2 and 3 percent in elections) were very highly placed in the military and in the Dept. of Interior (the security services).

    Ukrainian Nazis -the Russian boogeymen. The actual fact is Putin has no problems with Neo-nazis as long as they do his biding:

    https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535

    https://uawire.org/russian-mercenary-who-fought-in-donbas-killed-in-libya

    https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/russian-imperial-movement

    • #38
  9. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Hang On (View Comment):
      

    Hang On (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    Kill hundreds of civilians in occupied cities? Summary executions? You are gravely misled.

    That’s not what the document is calling for. But that’s the usual garbage comment from you.

    What it’s calling for is nothing like our occupation of Germany. It’s calling for blaming the majority of Ukrainians for “Nazism”, calling for the complete dismantling of Ukraine as a nation, and the obliteration of any even sense of Ukraine as a distinct nationality.  And if you can;’t see that,  and think thats an OK thing, there is no hope for you.

    • #39
  10. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    To me, the description of this Russian program looks pretty similar to the way that we handled West Germany after WWII.

    I am skeptical of the claim (in this Russian source) that there are large numbers of Nazis in Ukraine. There do seem to be a troubling minority, and that minority seems to have received governmental support that also seems troubling. It’s probably complicated, though.

    I wouldn’t blame a Ukrainian for being a nationalist. That actually seems appropriate, to me. The challenge seems to be demographic complexity, with a mix of Ukrainian and Russian people, culture, and language (and some smaller groups, but these are the big two). I’m skeptical of the ability of such a multi-cultural state to hold together, particularly in the post-French Revolution age of nationalism.

    This is overlaid by a culturally assertive Western European influence moving into Ukraine, an influence that I find unappealing, with its focus on feminism and the whole homosexual and trans agenda. I could see why Russians would be unhappy about such a culture moving eastward.

    Regarding -“

    To me, the description of this Russian program looks pretty similar to the way that we handled West Germany after WWII.

    I am skeptical of the claim (in this Russian source) that there are large numbers of Nazis in Ukraine. ”

    it’s actually not at all like that. Because “Nazi“ is defined as anyone who identifies as either pro Western or as Ukrainian.

    “None so blind as those who will not see”

    • #40
  11. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    True but I don’t think, at least as of this point in time, we actually have any proof of that Ukraine is a Neo-Nazi state. This isn’t to say there aren’t some troubling ties to a Neo-Nazi groups. When we took over Germany we had proof of what they were and what they had done. That makes a lot of difference.

    We have more than enough evidence of Ukrainian corruption and American participation in that corruption. And the Nazis while few in relative numbers (they would get between 2 and 3 percent in elections) were very highly placed in the military and in the Dept. of Interior (the security services).

    Ukrainian Nazis -the Russian boogeymen. The actual fact is Putin has no problems with Neo-nazis as long as they do his biding:

    https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535

    https://uawire.org/russian-mercenary-who-fought-in-donbas-killed-in-libya

    https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/russian-imperial-movement

    And in addition he has a ton of Neo Soviets.  They run the  puppet “Luhansk Peoples Republic” .

    • #41
  12. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Hang On (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    Kill hundreds of civilians in occupied cities? Summary executions? You are gravely misled.

    That’s not what the document is calling for. But that’s the usual garbage comment from you.

    You are kidding-right? You think that b/c 2% of Ukrainians voted for far right parties that Russia is justified in not only mass, indiscriminate shelling & bombing, but also can execute civilians ad lib? Because that us what they are doing- actions speak louder than words-especially Russian propaganda.

    You equate the US denazification program with Putin’s-leaving aside the mass murders, torture & summary executions, the other difference was that the Nazi party in Germany was a little more than 2% of the populace.

    • #42
  13. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Hang On (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    Kill hundreds of civilians in occupied cities? Summary executions? You are gravely misled.

    That’s not what the document is calling for. But that’s the usual garbage comment from you.

    Actually… that’s pretty much what the document is calling for.

    ’Nazis’ (people who think they are Ukrainian, or are pro Western, or just didn’t like getting invaded) are guilty if charged, and subject to death, imprisonment and/or forced labor.

    Its how the Soviets treated Germans after WW2

    In the halcyon days immediately after Germany’s surrender – when we were still buddies with the Soviets – my father was part of a multinational MP unit.   There were Brits and Americans and Russians.   His CO was Russian.   The Brits and Yanks carried sidearms and nightsticks.   The Russians carried their regular infantry weapons….those drum magazine PPSh-41 sub machine guns.

    One day they were at a checkpoint trying to get displaced persons identified and helped to get home.   One of them was a young, military age, German guy.   The Russian CO just pulled him out of the line, drew his sidearm and shot him dead right there.   That’s how Russians do ‘de-Nazification’

    • #43
  14. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Hmmmm. The left likes to call conservatives racists and Nazis. Perhaps the future they plan for us is similar . . .

    Ain’t no “perhaps” about it, brother.

    Locked and loaded here . . .

    • #44
  15. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Kozak (View Comment):

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):
    Putin is calling them Nazis because Russia has what essentially amounts to a cult of WWII, or, as they would refer to it, Великая Отечественная война/Great Patriotic War.

    From the end of the article

    This war stretched out for the entirely of the 20th century, and was expressed in a world war and in the Russian revolution, which are inextricably linked to each other.

    Russia has done all it can to save the West in the 20th century. It helped implement that important Western project, an alternative capitalism, which won it nation-states – the red, socialist project. It destroyed German Nazism – a monstrous product of the crisis of Western civilization. The last act of Russian altruism was the hand of friendship offered by Russia, for which Russian received that horrific blow of the 1990s.

    Everything that Russia did for the West, it did out of its own pocket, while making massive sacrifices. The West, in the end, rejected all of these sacrifices, devalued Russia’s contribution to resolving the Western crisis, decided to take revenge on Russia for the help that it had selflessly provided. Now, Russia will go its own way, without worrying about the fate of the West, drawing on the other part of its heritage – leading the global process of decolonization.

     

    Poor maligned Russia, that has done soooooo much for the West .

     

    I’ll concede a point regarding Russia and WW2.   They did most of the heavy lifting against the Germans.   Something like 2/3 s if Germany’s infantry divisions and 3/4 of their armour were committed to the Russian Front.  And the West has forgotten that.   
    now – to be fair – if it wasn’t for the German/Soviet non-aggression pact that enabled Hitler the whole thing could have turned out differently.

    and if it wasn’t for American material aid the Soviets would have been defeated. 

     

    • #45
  16. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):
    Really, the fact that Ukraine has been, for a very long time, a much more tolerant, Western facing society is part of why he hates them.

    Sounds like Beirut, the Paris of the Middle East and why it was a target of the terrorists.

    Thank you for explaining the warped thinking to me.

     

    • #46
  17. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):

    I read it quickly, but it is not a genocide program. I see de-arming and public service messages. Perhaps you can trim the article down to the part that shows genocidal intent.

    Read it yourself. The genocidal intent is completely evident.

    @ dong Perhaps this will clarify it for you. Quoted from the post:

    War criminals and active Nazis have to made an example of. There has to be a total lustration – the liquidation and ban of any organizations that ties themselves to the practice of Nazism. However, aside from the leadership, a good part of the population is also responsible here, who are themselves passive Nazis, accomplices to Nazism.

    They supported the Nazi government, and indulged it.

    And:

    De-nazification, as a goal of the special military operation, within the the scope of that operation, is understood as a military victory over the Kyiv regime, the liberation of the territory from armed Nazi supporters, the liquidation of irreconcilable Nazis, the capture of war criminals, as well as the creation of a system of conditions for the following peace-time de-nazification.

    I don’t think Hitler was this blunt when he gave his reasons for invading and occupying European countries.

    • #47
  18. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    True but I don’t think, at least as of this point in time, we actually have any proof of that Ukraine is a Neo-Nazi state. This isn’t to say there aren’t some troubling ties to a Neo-Nazi groups. When we took over Germany we had proof of what they were and what they had done. That makes a lot of difference.

    We have more than enough evidence of Ukrainian corruption and American participation in that corruption. And the Nazis while few in relative numbers (they would get between 2 and 3 percent in elections) were very highly placed in the military and in the Dept. of Interior (the security services).

    Ukrainian Nazis -the Russian boogeymen. The actual fact is Putin has no problems with Neo-nazis as long as they do his biding:

    https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535

    https://uawire.org/russian-mercenary-who-fought-in-donbas-killed-in-libya

    https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/russian-imperial-movement

    Check this out.

    @aravosis

    5APR22 12:02pm ET: Russia awards medal to soldier wearing not-see patch.

    ♬ original sound – John Aravosis

    Heres a Russian getting a medal for his actions in mariupol from  one of Putins puppet “leaders”.

    thats a Deaths head and Lightning Bolts on his shoulder patch.

     

     

    • #48
  19. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    I’ll concede a point regarding Russia and WW2.   They did most of the heavy lifting against the Germans.

    You  mean after they allied with Germany to carve up Poland?

    The fighting between the Nazi’s and Soviets was 2 equally vile totalitarian states in a death match.  I don’t give Russia any credit for anything they did there. They would not have been in the position in the first place if they hadn’t worked hand in hand with Nazi Germany before the start of the war.

    • #49
  20. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):

    I read it quickly, but it is not a genocide program. I see de-arming and public service messages. Perhaps you can trim the article down to the part that shows genocidal intent.

    Read it yourself. The genocidal intent is completely evident.

    @ dong Perhaps this will clarify it for you. Quoted from the post:

    War criminals and active Nazis have to made an example of. There has to be a total lustration – the liquidation and ban of any organizations that ties themselves to the practice of Nazism. However, aside from the leadership, a good part of the population is also responsible here, who are themselves passive Nazis, accomplices to Nazism.

    They supported the Nazi government, and indulged it.

    And:

    De-nazification, as a goal of the special military operation, within the the scope of that operation, is understood as a military victory over the Kyiv regime, the liberation of the territory from armed Nazi supporters, the liquidation of irreconcilable Nazis, the capture of war criminals, as well as the creation of a system of conditions for the following peace-time de-nazification.

    I don’t think Hitler was this blunt when he gave his reasons for invading and occupying European countries.

    He used the same thing as Putin – we’re rescuing people of our own ethnicity – more or less . . .

    • #50
  21. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    So they are going to line people up or just shell and bomb the cities?

     

    I imagine if the infestation of Nazis is too thick or rebellious, they’ll have to bomb entire cities and towns.

    It’s the justification they are using now for their bombings. They won’t change.

    I find the Nazi terminology interesting. Seems to be a commie thing calling the people they do not like and want to destroy Nazi. Putin does it. Biden and the Left uses it. Bird of a feather flock together

    What else is he going to call them, Freedom Lovers?  Democratists?  Real Nazis were the most destructive force against Russia in modern times so I figure they are the most convenient boogey man for Putin to invoke.

    • #51
  22. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    True but I don’t think, at least as of this point in time, we actually have any proof of that Ukraine is a Neo-Nazi state. This isn’t to say there aren’t some troubling ties to a Neo-Nazi groups. When we took over Germany we had proof of what they were and what they had done. That makes a lot of difference.

    We have more than enough evidence of Ukrainian corruption and American participation in that corruption. And the Nazis while few in relative numbers (they would get between 2 and 3 percent in elections) were very highly placed in the military and in the Dept. of Interior (the security services).

    Corruption very rarely carries a death sentence.   American participation in corruption in Ukraine doesn’t justify shelling a city and or massacring civilians in a suburb of Kiev.  I don’t know of any evidence of Nazis in positions of power in the government of Ukraine but I may be mistaken about that.   I am not saying Ukraine is all sweetness and light, but clearly the Russians are behaving in a barbaric manner for dubious war aims at the hands of a very evil man.

    • #52
  23. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Putin sounds like Xi.  Both are revising the past and playing their respective countries as victims of the West.

    • #53
  24. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    Kill hundreds of civilians in occupied cities? Summary executions? You are gravely misled.

    Not Quite.  It is because he is supporting Russia in the invasion.

    • #54
  25. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Kozak (View Comment):
    The last act of Russian altruism was the hand of friendship offered by Russia, for which Russian received that horrific blow of the 1990s.

    That sounds suspiciously like the stab in the back narrative updated for 2022.

    • #55
  26. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    I’ll concede a point regarding Russia and WW2. They did most of the heavy lifting against the Germans.

    You mean after they allied with Germany to carve up Poland?

    The fighting between the Nazi’s and Soviets was 2 equally vile totalitarian states in a death match. I don’t give Russia any credit for anything they did there. They would not have been in the position in the first place if they hadn’t worked hand in hand with Nazi Germany before the start of the war.

    Stalin was shipping vital war materials to Nazi Germany right up until the Nazi’s uncorked Operation Barbarossa- in fact w/o Stalin’s exports & support Germany could not have taken on France.

    • #56
  27. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Kozak (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    True but I don’t think, at least as of this point in time, we actually have any proof of that Ukraine is a Neo-Nazi state. This isn’t to say there aren’t some troubling ties to a Neo-Nazi groups. When we took over Germany we had proof of what they were and what they had done. That makes a lot of difference.

    We have more than enough evidence of Ukrainian corruption and American participation in that corruption. And the Nazis while few in relative numbers (they would get between 2 and 3 percent in elections) were very highly placed in the military and in the Dept. of Interior (the security services).

    Ukrainian Nazis -the Russian boogeymen. The actual fact is Putin has no problems with Neo-nazis as long as they do his biding:

    https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535

    https://uawire.org/russian-mercenary-who-fought-in-donbas-killed-in-libya

    https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/russian-imperial-movement

    Check this out.

    Heres a Russian getting a medal for his actions in mariupol from one of Putins puppet “leaders”.

    thats a Deaths head and Lightning Bolts on his shoulder patch.

     

     

    BTW they have since  “photoshopped”that image to remove the neo-nazi regalia

    • #57
  28. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    I’ll concede a point regarding Russia and WW2. They did most of the heavy lifting against the Germans.

    You mean after they allied with Germany to carve up Poland?

    The fighting between the Nazi’s and Soviets was 2 equally vile totalitarian states in a death match. I don’t give Russia any credit for anything they did there. They would not have been in the position in the first place if they hadn’t worked hand in hand with Nazi Germany before the start of the war.

    Agreed.  

    • #58
  29. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    I’ll concede a point regarding Russia and WW2. They did most of the heavy lifting against the Germans.

    You mean after they allied with Germany to carve up Poland?

    The fighting between the Nazi’s and Soviets was 2 equally vile totalitarian states in a death match. I don’t give Russia any credit for anything they did there. They would not have been in the position in the first place if they hadn’t worked hand in hand with Nazi Germany before the start of the war.

    Stalin was shipping vital war materials to Nazi Germany right up until the Nazi’s uncorked Operation Barbarossa- in fact w/o Stalin’s exports & support Germany could not have taken on France.

    Before the war there was cooperation as well.  Germany did a lot of it’s tank and airplane development in the USSR early on  to hide them when they were violating the Versailles Treaty developing the Luftwaffe and the Panzer divisions.  Stalin would not believe the warnings before Barbarrossa and even refused to believe the early reports of attacks on airfields and the frontier . Couldn’t believe his partner Hitler had betrayed him.

    • #59
  30. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

     

    • #60
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