Russia’s Plan for Ukraine? Genocide

 

Russia has dropped the maskirovka about its goals in the “Special Operation” in Ukraine.  RIA Novosty, a Russian Federation state-owned domestic news agency recently published an article that outlines the real goals of their invasion. It’s as if Goebbels had published a synopsis of the Wannsee Conference in the Völkischer Beobachter.

From Putin’s initial lie that the “special Operation” was aimed at liberating the Ukrainian population from its evil Nazi government, the article expands the aim of exterminating Ukrainian nationhood. Forever. What follows are some of the highlights of the article.

You can read the entire article, rescued by the Wayback Machine, here.

The operation to de-nazify Ukraine, which has started with a military phase, will follow in peacetime the same logic of progression as the military operation. With each step, it will be necessary to succeed in implementing irreversible changes, which would become the building blocks of the following step. For this, the necessary first steps of de-nazification can be defined the following way:

•     The liquidation of armed Nazi formation (which is understood to include any Ukrainian armed formations, including the Armed Forces of Ukraine), as well as anything that assists in their military, informational, and educational infrastructure

•      The creation of bodies for popular self-rule, as well as law enforcement (both for security and law and order) on liberated territory, to protective people from terrorist acts of insurgent Nazi groups

•     The implementation of the Russian information space

•     The seizure of any educational materials, and a band on educational programs, at all levels, that contain Nazi ideological attitudes

•     Mass investigations to establish personal accountability for war crimes, crimes against humanity, spreading of Nazi ideology and supporting the Nazi regime

•     Lustration, publicizing the names of the accomplices of the Nazi regime, engaging them in forced labor to repair destroyed infrastructure as part of their punishment for Nazi activities (for those that wouldn’t be sentenced to death or imprisonment)

•     The adoption, at a local level, under Russian advisement, primary normative acts of “grassroots” de-nazification, a ban on all types and forms of reviving Nazi ideology

•     The creation of memorials, commemorative signs, and monuments to the victims of Ukrainian Nazism, and the immortalization of the memory of the heroes that fought against it

•     The creation and adoption of a series of anti-fascist and de-nazificative norms in the constitutions of these new people’s republics

•     The creation of a constantly operating body of de-nazification, for a period of 25 years

Russia will have no compatriots in its de-nazification of Ukraine, seeing as this is purely Russian work, as well as considering that it is not just the Banderite version of Nazi Ukraine that will be eradicated, but also and most of all, Western totalitarianism, the forced programs of civilizational degradation and ruin, the mechanisms of subjugation to the superpower of the West and the USA.

In order to realize the plan of Ukrainian de-nazification, Russian life itself will have to finally rid itself of its pro-European and pro-Western illusions, and accept itself as the last line of defense, and the preserver of, those values of historic Europe (the Old World), which it deserves, and from which the West has ultimately abandoned, losing in a war against itself.

But wait there is more.

De-nazification is necessary when a sizable part of the population – most likely, the majority – has mastered and drawn in the Nazi regime into its politics.

That is, when the theory “the people are good, the government is bad” no longer holds true.

Get that?  The majority of Ukrainians are hopelessly Nazi. And Nazis cannot live.

War criminals and active Nazis have to made an example of. There has to be a total lustration – the liquidation and ban of any organizations that ties themselves to the practice of Nazism. However, aside from the leadership, a good part of the population is also responsible here, who are themselves passive Nazis, accomplices to Nazism.

They supported the Nazi government, and indulged it.

A just punishment for this part of the population can only be found in the burden of the hardships of a just war against the Nazi system,

Denazification can only be conducted by the victor, which assumes 1) its unconditional control over the de-nazification process, and 2) an authority that can facilitate this control. In this respect, a country undergoing de-nazification cannot be sovereign. The de-nazification-leading government – Russia – cannot proceed from a liberal approach regarding denazification.

The ideology of the de-nazifying party cannot be disputed by the guilty party, subjected to de-nazification. Russia’s call for the necessity of de-nazification means that the Crimean scenario cannot work for Ukraine as whole. In fact, this scenario was already unrealistic in 2014, and in the rebellious Donbas.

The Nazification of Ukraine took more than 30 years – starting at a minimum in 1989, when Ukrainian nationalism receive a legal and legitimate form of political self-expression and spearheaded the movement for “independence”, leaning towards Nazism.

A particular feature of Nazified Ukraine is its amorphousness and ambivalentness, which allows for the masking of Nazism as a desire to move towards an “independent” and “European” (Western and pro-American) path of development, (in reality – towards degradation), while insisting that Ukraine “doesn’t have any Nazism, only private and singular excesses.”

An independent Ukraine, that wants to be part of the West, cannot be permitted to exist.

The name “Ukraine,” seemingly, cannot be retained as the title of any fully denazified state entity in a territory liberated from the Nazi regime. The people’s republics, newly created in the space free from Nazism, should and will grow from the practice of economic self-government and social security, and the restoration and modernization of social support systems for the population.

Again, Ukraine cannot exist.

 De-nazification will inevitably be expressed as de-Ukrainianization – the rejection of the artificially divided ethnic component of self-identification, created as far back as under Soviet authority, of the population of the historical territories of Malorossiya and Novorossiya.

Unlike, say, Georgia and the Baltic states, Ukraine, as history has shown, cannot exist in the form of a national government, and attempts to “build” it as such, naturally leads to Nazism. Ukrainianism is an artificial anti-Russian construct, which does not have any civilizational content of its own, and is a subordinate element of a foreign and alien civilization.

This part is particularly sweet.  The way you define a “Nazi” is anyone who wants to be Ukrainian.

De-nazification, as a goal of the special military operation, within the the scope of that operation, is understood as a military victory over the Kyiv regime, the liberation of the territory from armed Nazi supporters, the liquidation of irreconcilable Nazis, the capture of war criminals, as well as the creation of a system of conditions for the following peace-time de-nazification.

The latter, in turn, should begin with the organization of local self-government, law enforcement, and defense bodies, cleansed of Nazi elements. This can be used as the basis to launch the founding processes of a new republican statehood, integrating this statehood into close cooperation with the Russian department for Ukrainian de-nazification (newly created or converted, say, from Rossotrudnichestvo). This, along with the adoption, under Russian control, of a republican regulatory framework (legislation) on de-nazification, the definition of the boundaries and framework for the direct application of Russian law and Russian jurisdiction in the liberated territories in the field of de-nazification, and the creation of a tribunal for crimes against humanity in the former Ukraine. In this regard, Russia should act as the guardian of the Nuremberg Trials.

The plan is to destroy Ukraine as a political entity, to cleanse the land of anyone who longs for independence or even a national identity. To Russia, Ukraine has never existed and is only a part of Mother Russia that must be returned to its status as “Malorus” (Little Russia).  Ukrainian culture will be illegal.  The language will be suppressed. Publishing in Ukrainian will be banned.  Because it’s Nazi.

This is not the first time Ukrainians have been the unwelcome recipients of Russia’s special love. Catherine the Great showed it. Multiple Tsars showed it. Stalin showed it. And Ukraine survived them all. I have no doubt Putler will fail as well, but not before causing immense death and destruction in his Genocide.

Published in Foreign Policy
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  1. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Oh. And don’t think this applies only to Ukraine. Baltics? Poland? You are next.

    @winterwidowchild

    #embargo #standwithukraine #nato #stoprussia #stopwar

    ♬ Le Calin – 斌杨Remix

    • #1
  2. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Maybe Europe will take their defense serious and stop relying on the US to do it for them.  It is after all their countries.  

    • #2
  3. DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax)
    @DonG

    I read it quickly, but it is not a genocide program.  I see de-arming and public service messages.   Perhaps you can trim the article down to the part that shows genocidal intent.

    • #3
  4. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):

    I read it quickly, but it is not a genocide program. I see de-arming and public service messages. Perhaps you can trim the article down to the part that shows genocidal intent.

    Read it yourself.  The genocidal intent is completely evident.

    • #4
  5. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Kozak: “Mass investigations to establish personal accountability for war crimes, crimes against humanity, spreading of Nazi ideology and supporting the Nazi regime”

    Kozak: “Lustration, publicizing the names of the accomplices of the Nazi regime, engaging them in forced labor to repair destroyed infrastructure as part of their punishment for Nazi activities (for those that wouldn’t be sentenced to death or imprisonment)”

    Kozak:

    “They supported the Nazi government, and indulged it.”

    “A just punishment for this part of the population can only be found in the burden of the hardships of a just war against the Nazi system,”

    Kozak: “the liquidation of irreconcilable Nazis”

    These are all rationalizations for genocide as they have been commonly carried out around the world in such places as Cambodia and South Vietnam and China. It’s probably what the Taliban is doing to the Afghans, helped along with the list Biden gave them of Afghans who helped the United States over the last twenty years.

    • #5
  6. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    So they are going to line people up or just shell and bomb  the cities? 

     

    • #6
  7. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    So they are going to line people up or just shell and bomb the cities?

     

    I imagine if the infestation of Nazis is too thick or rebellious, they’ll have to bomb entire cities and towns. 

    It’s the justification they are using now for their bombings. They won’t change. 

    • #7
  8. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):

    I read it quickly, but it is not a genocide program. I see de-arming and public service messages. Perhaps you can trim the article down to the part that shows genocidal intent.

    Read it yourself. The genocidal intent is completely evident.

    @dong Perhaps this will clarify it for you. Quoted from the post:

    War criminals and active Nazis have to made an example of. There has to be a total lustration – the liquidation and ban of any organizations that ties themselves to the practice of Nazism. However, aside from the leadership, a good part of the population is also responsible here, who are themselves passive Nazis, accomplices to Nazism.

    They supported the Nazi government, and indulged it.

    And:

    De-nazification, as a goal of the special military operation, within the the scope of that operation, is understood as a military victory over the Kyiv regime, the liberation of the territory from armed Nazi supporters, the liquidation of irreconcilable Nazis, the capture of war criminals, as well as the creation of a system of conditions for the following peace-time de-nazification.

    • #8
  9. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    So they are going to line people up or just shell and bomb the cities?

     

    I imagine if the infestation of Nazis is too thick or rebellious, they’ll have to bomb entire cities and towns.

    It’s the justification they are using now for their bombings. They won’t change.

    I find the Nazi terminology interesting.  Seems to be a commie thing calling the people they do not like and want to destroy Nazi.  Putin does it.  Biden and the Left uses it.  Bird of a feather flock together 

    • #9
  10. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    What the heck is “nazi” to Putin anyway? In Germany, it referred to card-carrying members of a political group that had political privileges in Germany. 

    Is he referring to a belief system or an actual political party?

    • #10
  11. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):
    I find the Nazi terminology interesting.  

    I do too. I think our comments cross-posted. :-) 

    • #11
  12. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    MarciN (View Comment):

    What the heck is “nazi” to Putin anyway? In Germany, it referred to card-carrying members of a political group that had political privileges in Germany.

    Is he referring to a belief system or an actual political party?

    A nazi is any Ukrainian that opposes his desires-there are reports that in occupied cities any Ukrainian veteran was targeted for death. B/c of the Donbas conflict Ukraine has 400,000+ vets.

    • #12
  13. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):

    I read it quickly, but it is not a genocide program. I see de-arming and public service messages. Perhaps you can trim the article down to the part that shows genocidal intent.

    Read it yourself. The genocidal intent is completely evident.

    @ dong Perhaps this will clarify it for you. Quoted from the post:

    War criminals and active Nazis have to made an example of. There has to be a total lustration – the liquidation and ban of any organizations that ties themselves to the practice of Nazism. However, aside from the leadership, a good part of the population is also responsible here, who are themselves passive Nazis, accomplices to Nazism.

    They supported the Nazi government, and indulged it.

    And:

    De-nazification, as a goal of the special military operation, within the the scope of that operation, is understood as a military victory over the Kyiv regime, the liberation of the territory from armed Nazi supporters, the liquidation of irreconcilable Nazis, the capture of war criminals, as well as the creation of a system of conditions for the following peace-time de-nazification.

    It’s pretty clear; if a Ukrainian tries to defend himself and his family, he is a “Nazi.”

    • #13
  14. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):

    I read it quickly, but it is not a genocide program. I see de-arming and public service messages. Perhaps you can trim the article down to the part that shows genocidal intent.

    Read it yourself. The genocidal intent is completely evident.

    @ dong Perhaps this will clarify it for you. Quoted from the post:

    War criminals and active Nazis have to made an example of. There has to be a total lustration – the liquidation and ban of any organizations that ties themselves to the practice of Nazism. However, aside from the leadership, a good part of the population is also responsible here, who are themselves passive Nazis, accomplices to Nazism.

    They supported the Nazi government, and indulged it.

    And:

    De-nazification, as a goal of the special military operation, within the the scope of that operation, is understood as a military victory over the Kyiv regime, the liberation of the territory from armed Nazi supporters, the liquidation of irreconcilable Nazis, the capture of war criminals, as well as the creation of a system of conditions for the following peace-time de-nazification.

    It’s pretty clear; if a Ukrainian tries to defend himself and his family, he is a “Nazi.”

    If the Russians win, and a Ukrainian dares to identify himself as a Ukrainian he is a Nazi.

    • #14
  15. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    So they are going to line people up or just shell and bomb the cities?

     

    Apparently according to the information they are doing both, of course as always it is hard to determine the truth.  It is undeniable that they are shelling/ have shelled Mariupol.   Also the massacre in Bucha seems credible at this point.   All war is ugly business but this definitely appears to be much uglier than most.  We knew Putin was a thug and a murderer so that isn’t surprising.   That it is widely part of the Russian invasion at this point doesn’t speak well of the Russian Army.  Incidentally that article goes on to essentially link America and Western Europe to the Nazis in Ukraine, so basically that argues that any peace between NATO and Russia is instrumental as far as they are concerned.  This is not the time to have such and incredibly weak hand on the tiller of the United States.  The world is too deadly serious to keep indulging in western elite’s childish ideas any longer.  We adults back in charge.

    • #15
  16. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    So they are going to line people up or just shell and bomb the cities?

     

    Apparently according to the information they are doing both, of course as always it is hard to determine the truth. It is undeniable that they are shelling/ have shelled Mariupol. Also the massacre in Bucha seems credible at this point. All war is ugly business but this definitely appears to be much uglier than most. We knew Putin was a thug and a murderer so that isn’t surprising. That it is widely part of the Russian invasion at this point doesn’t speak well of the Russian Army. Incidentally that article goes on to essentially link America and Western Europe to the Nazis in Ukraine, so basically that argues that any peace between NATO and Russia is instrumental as far as they are concerned. This is not the time to have such and incredibly weak hand on the tiller of the United States. The world is too deadly serious to keep indulging in western elite’s childish ideas any longer. We adults back in charge.

    So, they will go back and Shell Kiev then, or will the Genocide be just in places east?

     

    • #16
  17. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):

    I read it quickly, but it is not a genocide program. I see de-arming and public service messages. Perhaps you can trim the article down to the part that shows genocidal intent.

    Read it yourself. The genocidal intent is completely evident.

    @ dong Perhaps this will clarify it for you. Quoted from the post:

    War criminals and active Nazis have to made an example of. There has to be a total lustration – the liquidation and ban of any organizations that ties themselves to the practice of Nazism. However, aside from the leadership, a good part of the population is also responsible here, who are themselves passive Nazis, accomplices to Nazism.

    They supported the Nazi government, and indulged it.

    And:

    De-nazification, as a goal of the special military operation, within the the scope of that operation, is understood as a military victory over the Kyiv regime, the liberation of the territory from armed Nazi supporters, the liquidation of irreconcilable Nazis, the capture of war criminals, as well as the creation of a system of conditions for the following peace-time de-nazification.

    It’s pretty clear; if a Ukrainian tries to defend himself and his family, he is a “Nazi.”

    If the Russians win, and a Ukrainian dares to identify himself as a Ukrainian he is a Nazi.

    I sort of feel the same away about Democrats.  When they win if I fly an American flag it is proof that I am a Nazi.   

    • #17
  18. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    To me, the description of this Russian program looks pretty similar to the way that we handled West Germany after WWII.

    I am skeptical of the claim (in this Russian source) that there are large numbers of Nazis in Ukraine.  There do seem to be a troubling minority, and that minority seems to have received governmental support that also seems troubling.  It’s probably complicated, though.

    I wouldn’t blame a Ukrainian for being a nationalist.  That actually seems appropriate, to me.  The challenge seems to be demographic complexity, with a mix of Ukrainian and Russian people, culture, and language (and some smaller groups, but these are the big two).  I’m skeptical of the ability of such a multi-cultural state to hold together, particularly in the post-French Revolution age of nationalism.

    This is overlaid by a culturally assertive Western European influence moving into Ukraine, an influence that I find unappealing, with its focus on feminism and the whole homosexual and trans agenda.  I could see why Russians would be unhappy about such a culture moving eastward.

    • #18
  19. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    So they are going to line people up or just shell and bomb the cities?

     

    Apparently according to the information they are doing both, of course as always it is hard to determine the truth. It is undeniable that they are shelling/ have shelled Mariupol. Also the massacre in Bucha seems credible at this point. All war is ugly business but this definitely appears to be much uglier than most. We knew Putin was a thug and a murderer so that isn’t surprising. That it is widely part of the Russian invasion at this point doesn’t speak well of the Russian Army. Incidentally that article goes on to essentially link America and Western Europe to the Nazis in Ukraine, so basically that argues that any peace between NATO and Russia is instrumental as far as they are concerned. This is not the time to have such and incredibly weak hand on the tiller of the United States. The world is too deadly serious to keep indulging in western elite’s childish ideas any longer. We adults back in charge.

    So, they will go back and Shell Kiev then, or will the Genocide be just in places east?

     

    I am not sure anyone knows, this includes Putin.   A lot depends on what he still has the military capability of accomplishing.  Withdrawing to points east seems to have been a concession to the realities on the ground.   Another consideration is what does the peace process look like.  The things that have been revealed by the withdrawing Russian army are not likely to make that go smoother and may scuttle it all together.   If Russia can regroup and  Ukrainians are mad enough that they continue to fight, and I don’t really see how they could stop at this point.  I expect they will be back to shelling or bombing Kiev.   

    Putin has actually committed a error in this.  He has put the Ukrainians on dying ground.  I am not sure this was an good strategy.  Makes me question the whole thing, but it appears to be legit and matches the facts that seem true.  

    • #19
  20. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949. 

    • #20
  21. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    True but I don’t think, at least as of this point in time, we actually have any proof of that Ukraine is a Neo-Nazi state.  This isn’t to say there aren’t some troubling ties to a Neo-Nazi groups.    When we took over Germany we had proof of what they were and what they had done.   That makes a lot of difference.

    • #21
  22. Ekosj Member
    Ekosj
    @Ekosj

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):

    I read it quickly, but it is not a genocide program. I see de-arming and public service messages. Perhaps you can trim the article down to the part that shows genocidal intent.

    Wow.   You must have really skimmed along…

    War criminals and active Nazis have to made an example of. There has to be a total lustration – the liquidation and ban of any organizations that ties themselves to the practice of Nazism. However, aside from the leadership, a good part of the population is also responsible here, who are themselves passive Nazis, accomplices to Nazism.

    They supported the Nazi government, and indulged it.

    A just punishment for this part of the population can only be found in the burden of the hardships of a just war against the Nazi system,

    Denazification can only be conducted by the victor, which assumes 1) its unconditional control over the de-nazification process, and 2) an authority that can facilitate this control. In this respect, a country undergoing de-nazification cannot be sovereign. The de-nazification-leading government – Russia – cannot proceed from a liberal approach regarding denazification.

    The ideology of the de-nazifying party cannot be disputed by the guilty party, subjected to de-nazification.

    and

    Lustration, publicizing the names of the accomplices of the Nazi regime, engaging them in forced labor to repair destroyed infrastructure as part of their punishment for Nazi activities (for those that wouldn’t be sentenced to death or imprisonment)

     

    sounds like “Nazis” are guilty as charged, no questions asked.   That includes the population who supported the current regime.   Punishment by death, imprisonment or  forced labor.

    doesn’t sound at all like what we did to Germany or Japan after the War.

    sounds like Ukraine and anyone identifying as Ukrainian is to be erased.

    actually sounds like what AOC would implement here against Trump supporters if she could.

    • #22
  23. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Hmmmm.  The left likes to call conservatives racists and Nazis.  Perhaps the future they plan for us is similar . . .

    • #23
  24. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    Stad (View Comment):

    Hmmmm. The left likes to call conservatives racists and Nazis. Perhaps the future they plan for us is similar . . .

    Ain’t no “perhaps” about it, brother.

    • #24
  25. KirkianWanderer Coolidge
    KirkianWanderer
    @KirkianWanderer

    MarciN (View Comment):

    What the heck is “nazi” to Putin anyway? In Germany, it referred to card-carrying members of a political group that had political privileges in Germany.

    Is he referring to a belief system or an actual political party?

    No. Russia has one of the highest concentrations of Neo-nazis in the world, and, if he actually cared at all about that, he would be trying to fix that in his own borders. But he has no qualms about being in bed with skinheads. Really, the fact that Ukraine has been, for a very long time, a much more tolerant, Western facing society is part of why he hates them. 

    Putin is calling them Nazis because Russia has what essentially amounts to a cult of WWII, or, as they would refer to it, Великая Отечественная война/Great Patriotic War. (Technically that refers to the war on the Eastern front, but you see it as a stand in for WWII as a whole quite often). The amount of cultural products (movies, novels, tv shows, etc) about WWII that come out every year there is mind boggling. It’s essentially because that conflict is seen as ‘Russia’/the USSR’s crowning moment of greatness, when it bravely saved the world. Nowadays, it’s cultural heroin to distract from what came after (Afghanistan and all that) and the country’s decline in importance and ability. 

    So calling the Ukrainians Nazis is a way for Putin to galvanize support, by making Russians who have been raised on this idealization of WWII feel that they are performing a task just as noble as their ancestors. 

    • #25
  26. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    Kill hundreds of civilians in occupied cities? Summary executions?  You are gravely misled.

    • #26
  27. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Raxxalan (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    True but I don’t think, at least as of this point in time, we actually have any proof of that Ukraine is a Neo-Nazi state. This isn’t to say there aren’t some troubling ties to a Neo-Nazi groups. When we took over Germany we had proof of what they were and what they had done. That makes a lot of difference.

    We have more than enough evidence of Ukrainian corruption and American participation in that corruption. And the Nazis while few in relative numbers (they would get between 2 and 3 percent in elections) were very highly placed in the military and in the Dept. of Interior (the security services).

    • #27
  28. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    KirkianWanderer (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    What the heck is “nazi” to Putin anyway? In Germany, it referred to card-carrying members of a political group that had political privileges in Germany.

    Is he referring to a belief system or an actual political party?

    No. Russia has one of the highest concentrations of Neo-nazis in the world, and, if he actually cared at all about that, he would be trying to fix that in his own borders. But he has no qualms about being in bed with skinheads. Really, the fact that Ukraine has been, for a very long time, a much more tolerant, Western facing society is part of why he hates them.

    Putin is calling them Nazis because Russia has what essentially amounts to a cult of WWII, or, as they would refer to it, Великая Отечественная война/Great Patriotic War. (Technically that refers to the war on the Eastern front, but you see it as a stand in for WWII as a whole quite often). The amount of cultural products (movies, novels, tv shows, etc) about WWII that come out every year there is mind boggling. It’s essentially because that conflict is seen as ‘Russia’/the USSR’s crowning moment of greatness, when it bravely saved the world. Nowadays, it’s cultural heroin to distract from what came after (Afghanistan and all that) and the country’s decline in importance and ability.

    So calling the Ukrainians Nazis is a way for Putin to galvanize support, by making Russians who have been raised on this idealization of WWII feel that they are performing a task just as noble as their ancestors.

    I think what Putin means by Nazi is anti-Russian. I don’t think it’s more complicated than that.

    The World War 2 thing has been going on for a long time. When I first went to the Soviet Union back in the 70s, I was struck by guys my age goose-stepping around at war memorials. And they were serious dudes. On buses and trams, there were signs that you had to give up your seat to war veterans. And there were reserved seats for wounded war veterans. 

     

    • #28
  29. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):

    I read it quickly, but it is not a genocide program. I see de-arming and public service messages. Perhaps you can trim the article down to the part that shows genocidal intent.

    I’ve been arguing against using the term “genocide” to describe Russia’s intent, but this is getting dangerously close to it.

    • #29
  30. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Moderator Note:

    You can make your point without personally attacking the commenter.

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s what we did when we took over Germany in 1945 and continued to do until 1949.

    Kill hundreds of civilians in occupied cities? Summary executions? You are gravely misled.

    That’s not what the document is calling for. [redacted]

    • #30
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