Georgia Republicans Help Defeat School Choice Bill

 

There was a bill in Georgia Senate to provide a $6,000 voucher to help provide students with an alternative to failing public schools. Eight Republicans voted with Democrats to kill it

Sen. Steve Gooch, a Dahlonega Republican who supported the measure, said that some schools outside metro Atlanta cost less than $6,000, or not more than that amount. He predicted parents would “work harder” to earn a little more money to afford to send their child to a the school of their choice

“We should be helping the middle class people as much as we are the upper class and the lower class,” Gooch said.

Sorry, buddy, helping the middle class is not where the Republican Party is, apparently. 

Published in Education
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  1. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Victor Tango Kilo: Sen. Steve Gooch, a Dahlonega Republican who supported the measure, said that some schools outside metro Atlanta cost less than $6,000, or not more than that amount. He predicted parents would “work harder” to earn a little more money to afford to send their child to a the school of their choice

     

    This is the kind of trivial idiotic idea that makes me nuts. Can we not prioritize? How hard have these people had to work just to get through the past few years?? When Republicans act in this way, I lose hope for that party; I hate to even call it my party.

    • #1
  2. genferei Member
    genferei
    @genferei

    End compulsory education.

    • #2
  3. lowtech redneck Coolidge
    lowtech redneck
    @lowtech redneck

    There are plenty more CINOs who would have voted against it if necessary, these guys were simply taking one for the GOPe team.  If their constituents punish them for it, they will be taken care of.

    There is a lot of rot within the Georgia GOP.

    • #3
  4. Dbroussa Coolidge
    Dbroussa
    @Dbroussa

    lowtech redneck (View Comment):

    There are plenty more CINOs who would have voted against it if necessary, these guys were simply taking one for the GOPe team. If their constituents punish them for it, they will be taken care of.

    There is a lot of rot within the Georgia GOP.

    That’s what happens when you have a one party state for over 100 years. The GOP became popular in the 80s and politicians who never were competitive in the Democratic party joined the Republicans so they could get elected. They just had to pretend that they were conservative and get elected. Much like the Democrats prior to the 80s contained conservative and liberals in the party in Georgia, the same has been true of the GOP once it became viable. 

    • #4
  5. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad
    1. Identify those Republicans.
    2. Find worthy replacements and fund them.
    3. Challenge those incumbents in the primaries.
    • #5
  6. The Scarecrow Thatcher
    The Scarecrow
    @TheScarecrow

    genferei (View Comment):

    End compulsory education.

    I took education courses to get certified while I was teaching. One day we all had to offer our ideas about improving student learning. All the usual answers came out: smaller class size, pay the teachers more, better AV equipment,  free iPads for everybody, etc.

    I said “Student accountability”, and was booed. I pointed out that all of the other things had been tried, over and over again, yet here we still were.

    I suggested that if you had to have compulsory education, it should maybe be until sixth grade or so – just about the time most students stop cooperating and start getting rebellious and disruptive. 

    From here on , many students are not going to learn much more of what you’re teaching anyway, so an alternative should be developed where they might do better. 

    The prof laughed and wrote “coal mine” on the list. Everybody else laughed and booed.

    I continued that any student could continue the academic track if he wished, but there would be proficiency exams from now on. Those who weren’t academic could try one of the alternatives. I don’t know what they would be – something vocational perhaps. But it would not be compulsory. 

    At the end, after discussing each idea, the prof, surprisingly, agreed with me.

     

    • #6
  7. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    genferei (View Comment):

    End compulsory education.

    I took education courses to get certified while I was teaching. One day we all had to offer our ideas about improving student learning. All the usual answers came out: smaller class size, pay the teachers more, better AV equipment, free iPads for everybody, etc.

    I said “Student accountability”, and was booed. I pointed out that all of the other things had been tried, over and over again, yet here we still were.

    I suggested that if you had to have compulsory education, it should maybe be until sixth grade or so – just about the time most students stop cooperating and start getting rebellious and disruptive.

    From here on , many students are not going to learn much more of what you’re teaching anyway, so an alternative should be developed where they might do better.

    The prof laughed and wrote “coal mine” on the list. Everybody else laughed and booed.

    I continued that any student could continue the academic track if he wished, but there would be proficiency exams from now on. Those who weren’t academic could try one of the alternatives. I don’t know what they would be – something vocational perhaps. But it would not be compulsory.

    At the end, after discussing each idea, the prof, surprisingly, agreed with me.

     

    Your suggestions make so much sense, Scarecrow! I love the approach! 

    • #7
  8. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Stad (View Comment):

    1. Identify those Republicans.
    2. Find worthy replacements and fund them.
    3. Challenge those incumbents in the primaries.

    Yes. At the risk of invoking the old baby/bathwater cliché: it appears that every Democrat present voted against the bill, whereas most of the Republicans presented voted for it. Stad is exactly right. [“Did it hurt to type that?” Yes. Yes, it did.]

    The parties are different. Neither is perfect. Support the better one, and work to improve it.

    • #8
  9. Chris Gregerson Member
    Chris Gregerson
    @ChrisGregerson

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    genferei (View Comment):

    End compulsory education.

    I took education courses to get certified while I was teaching. One day we all had to offer our ideas about improving student learning. All the usual answers came out: smaller class size, pay the teachers more, better AV equipment, free iPads for everybody, etc.

    I said “Student accountability”, and was booed. I pointed out that all of the other things had been tried, over and over again, yet here we still were.

    I suggested that if you had to have compulsory education, it should maybe be until sixth grade or so – just about the time most students stop cooperating and start getting rebellious and disruptive.

    From here on , many students are not going to learn much more of what you’re teaching anyway, so an alternative should be developed where they might do better.

    The prof laughed and wrote “coal mine” on the list. Everybody else laughed and booed.

    I continued that any student could continue the academic track if he wished, but there would be proficiency exams from now on. Those who weren’t academic could try one of the alternatives. I don’t know what they would be – something vocational perhaps. But it would not be compulsory.

    At the end, after discussing each idea, the prof, surprisingly, agreed with me.

     

    After teaching specialty courses in high schools I came to a similar conclusion. Secondary education should not be compulsory. Many of the students don’t care, study, or learn. So why waste the time. The laws would need to be amended to allow kids 14 years old to work full time. Many of the prospective early departing students may reconsider their choices and desire to opt back in. They could then attend a high school, some kind of transition high school (age dependent) or a Junior College depending on their age and education level.

    • #9
  10. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    1. Identify those Republicans.
    2. Find worthy replacements and fund them.
    3. Challenge those incumbents in the primaries.

    Yes. At the risk of invoking the old baby/bathwater cliché: it appears that every Democrat present voted against the bill, whereas most of the Republicans presented voted for it. Stad is exactly right. [“Did it hurt to type that?” Yes. Yes, it did.]

    The parties are different. Neither is perfect. Support the better one, and work to improve it.

    Yeah, the title of the post is misleading.  You could write a headline of “Pennsylvania Men Beat Their Wives” and it would technically be true, because some Pennsylvania men do.  But it is misleading because it is a minority of Pennsylvania men who are wife beaters.  It makes for a more sensational headline, though.

    • #10
  11. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    Well, they also threw the election to Biden.

    • #11
  12. Eugene Kriegsmann Member
    Eugene Kriegsmann
    @EugeneKriegsmann

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    genferei (View Comment):

    End compulsory education.

    I took education courses to get certified while I was teaching. One day we all had to offer our ideas about improving student learning. All the usual answers came out: smaller class size, pay the teachers more, better AV equipment, free iPads for everybody, etc.

    I said “Student accountability”, and was booed. I pointed out that all of the other things had been tried, over and over again, yet here we still were.

    I suggested that if you had to have compulsory education, it should maybe be until sixth grade or so – just about the time most students stop cooperating and start getting rebellious and disruptive.

    From here on , many students are not going to learn much more of what you’re teaching anyway, so an alternative should be developed where they might do better.

    The prof laughed and wrote “coal mine” on the list. Everybody else laughed and booed.

    I continued that any student could continue the academic track if he wished, but there would be proficiency exams from now on. Those who weren’t academic could try one of the alternatives. I don’t know what they would be – something vocational perhaps. But it would not be compulsory.

    At the end, after discussing each idea, the prof, surprisingly, agreed with me.

     

    I went to private schools when I was a kid. There weren’t any AV units, no fancy stuff, just teachers who didn’t allow children to determine the course of study. Parents paid for their kids and knew if the kid screwed up he would be expelled.  Having skin in the game makes an enormous difference. When parents send their kids to a school that is “free”, in which there are no financial fines for lost library books or textbooks that are lost or damaged, that free breakfast and lunch are provided, and administrators do all they can to keep unpleasant occurrences from being exposed, you have a situation where you get what you pay for (or at least you think you are not paying for.) I spent 40 years watching incredible amounts of public funding poured into a toilet, books destroyed or simply lost, computers disassembled by bored twits who had no more interest in learning than I have in Twitter, principals more interested in keeping the number of suspensions down than in maintaining order, and parents whose title was due to the fact that they had performed an act a dog doesn’t need to be taught to do, but who felt that that was their ultimate achievement. Schooling and parenting are two things that need to be done correctly. To a large extent what is happening in our country is a failure of both on a major scale.

    • #12
  13. db25db Lincoln
    db25db
    @db25db

    Stad (View Comment):

    1. Identify those Republicans.
    2. Find worthy replacements and fund them.
    3. Challenge those incumbents in the primaries.

    what I’d add to this is also.. beat more Democrats.  The bigger a party gets the more diverse its views are.  These 8 are frustrating, so take steps 1-3 where alternatives can win.

    • #13
  14. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    Schools and how we pay  and run them is one of the most important issues Americans face.  Our educational system has caused a drift often toward less broad narrow often  unthinking seemingly over confident mobs and those who are smart into narrow technical folks .   We can’t fix this with slow half measures like charter schools.  We need to end not just domination by teachers unions, we need to eliminate state control.  Turn funding over to parents by giving them vouchers and turn teaching and management over to teachers; promise it, make it a local bi-partisan issue so teachers rebel and eliminate their unions.   Follow New Zealand that  went from the bottom of Western schools to the top in one year when the UK had to abandon them because it joined the EC.   Each school was run by teachers and of course parents, because to attract students independent schools had to fire inadequate teachers to compete with each other.  Just do it. Make it a key issue.  Teachers will support it because the good ones will earn more.  Competition works.  Top down unionization works for union leaders and bureaucrats not for good teachers, parents, the kids or the  nation.

    • #14
  15. Eugene Kriegsmann Member
    Eugene Kriegsmann
    @EugeneKriegsmann

    I Walton (View Comment):
    We need to end not just domination by teachers unions, we need to eliminate state control.  Turn funding over to parents by giving them vouchers and turn teaching and management over to teachers; promise it, make it a local bi-partisan issue so teachers rebel and eliminate their unions.

    Teachers’ unions are incredibly strong and the slow but steady culling of older, more experienced teachers has filled the unions with hordes of young, indoctrinated trolls who know nothing else. I began my teaching career in New York City during a 10 day strike in 1967. I walked through the picket line each day to run two adjacent classrooms filled with 150 5th graders. Of the 30 or so teachers on staff, only two others did what I did. In my case it was because I had attended classes during the previous summer paid for by the New York City Board of Ed. I felt obligated to live up to the contract I made with them when they hired me. Others who went through the same program, ten in number, didn’t feel the same obligation and remained on the picket line or stayed home. That is pretty much the ratio you can expect of teachers who would be willing to quit the unions, 10 to one would remain in the union. On top of this, unions have incredible amounts of money. School districts are far too likely to put a teacher out to dry if there are ever any problems and legal assistance is only available through the unions.

    I had two incidents in my career that would likely have been far less comfortable had I not had union support. In one I attended a job fair when a position I was hired for was eliminated. As a contracted employee with a good deal of seniority I had the right to choose a position from the available slots. I chose a spot in a juvenile detention facility for which I was uniquely qualified. The manager of that location wanted a black teacher in that position. I am white. He called me up that night to tell me I couldn’t have the position. The job fair was over. I couldn’t get another position. I called the union. They were able to get me into that placement. It would have been impossible otherwise. The district would have simply let me collect a paycheck while waiting for something to show up.

    I had one other situation of my own where the union provided support that the district wouldn’t. I also saw any number of other situations where accusations were made against teachers which were unquestionably false, but the district remained neutral forcing the union to defend the rights of the teachers involved.

    I didn’t like the union, but I also knew it was my only defense if a defense became necessary, and in a 45 year career, that is inevitable.

    • #15
  16. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Chris Gregerson (View Comment):

    The Scarecrow (View Comment):

    genferei (View Comment):

    End compulsory education.

    I took education courses to get certified while I was teaching. One day we all had to offer our ideas about improving student learning. All the usual answers came out: smaller class size, pay the teachers more, better AV equipment, free iPads for everybody, etc.

    I said “Student accountability”, and was booed. I pointed out that all of the other things had been tried, over and over again, yet here we still were.

    I suggested that if you had to have compulsory education, it should maybe be until sixth grade or so – just about the time most students stop cooperating and start getting rebellious and disruptive.

    From here on , many students are not going to learn much more of what you’re teaching anyway, so an alternative should be developed where they might do better.

    The prof laughed and wrote “coal mine” on the list. Everybody else laughed and booed.

    I continued that any student could continue the academic track if he wished, but there would be proficiency exams from now on. Those who weren’t academic could try one of the alternatives. I don’t know what they would be – something vocational perhaps. But it would not be compulsory.

    At the end, after discussing each idea, the prof, surprisingly, agreed with me.

     

    After teaching specialty courses in high schools I came to a similar conclusion. Secondary education should not be compulsory. Many of the students don’t care, study, or learn. So why waste the time. The laws would need to be amended to allow kids 14 years old to work full time. Many of the prospective early departing students may reconsider their choices and desire to opt back in. They could then attend a high school, some kind of transition high school (age dependent) or a Junior College depending on their age and education level.

    I was in high school in Georgia 1951-1956, 8th through 12th grades, we only had elementary and high school there at that time.  It was compulsory, of course, but we had something that worked. Two tracks for graduation, academic and general, for those who thought they would continue with college and those who did not. There was also something called distributive education that supported those who worked and continued with school. I think things worked pretty well for about 20 years after the end of WWII before the disintegration started. 

    • #16
  17. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    I Walton (View Comment):

    Schools and how we pay and run them is one of the most important issues Americans face. Our educational system has caused a drift often toward less broad narrow often unthinking seemingly over confident mobs and those who are smart into narrow technical folks . We can’t fix this with slow half measures like charter schools. We need to end not just domination by teachers unions, we need to eliminate state control. Turn funding over to parents by giving them vouchers and turn teaching and management over to teachers; promise it, make it a local bi-partisan issue so teachers rebel and eliminate their unions. Follow New Zealand that went from the bottom of Western schools to the top in one year when the UK had to abandon them because it joined the EC. Each school was run by teachers and of course parents, because to attract students independent schools had to fire inadequate teachers to compete with each other. Just do it. Make it a key issue. Teachers will support it because the good ones will earn more. Competition works. Top down unionization works for union leaders and bureaucrats not for good teachers, parents, the kids or the nation.

    Amen.  For thirty years I’ve been saying eliminating public schools is the most important change we need to make. 

    • #17
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