The Unending Hatred for Russians

 

I want Putin to lose. I want him to learn that if a country wants freedom, he cannot take it away. I’m cheering for Ukraine. But the insane escalation of anti-Russian measures is disturbing.

Banking sanctions are one thing, but some of the petty elements are just insane.  People who live in Russia cannot receive money via Patreon or other donation services.  One guy I support was developing a video game trading market, and got completely cut off.  He can’t even use online development tools.  Speaking of games, several games have cut off Russians from the ability to buy any items in the game using actual money  (For a lot of free games, that’s the game company’s revenue stream).

Some of the attacks on Russians are just bizarre, like going after vodkas made in Latvia (Stoli) and the US (Smirnoff). We even have places refusing to allow Tchaikovsky music to be played. Does anyone think Putin gives a damn about these ridiculous measures? The point of sanctions and such is get Russia to leave the Ukrainians and other former satellites alone.

Putin probably appreciates when crazy people do things like argue for deporting Russians and having Russian citizens lose their jobs. There’s nothing like insane criticism to get people to sympathize with a side. I remember reading the Philadelphia Trumpet‘s anti-Catholic propaganda and thinking that it made the Roman Church sound awesome.  They had a guy dressed as a cardinal drawing a sword, and the issue was called Crusade. They wanted to blame Catholics for Islamic terrorism, I wanted to yell Deus Vult!


One last note: I have the sneaking suspicion everyone enacting these anti-Putin measures would really like to use them on all of us here. Maximum Trudeau, in other words. Doesn’t change the Ukraine situation, but it does make me worried.

Published in Foreign Policy
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  1. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    DrewInWisconsin, Ope! (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them.

    I give a pass to American Citizens who were not allowed to chose the current administration, but had it foisted upon them through a mix of outright vote fraud and illegal voting mechanism used by Democrats. (Such as in my own state, where we continue to uncover fraudulently-cast votes.)

    Okay, so Russian elections are free and fair, more so than the US’?

    I doubt it.  Sounds like one rule for thee and another for me.

    • #61
  2. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Irish, Italians, Jews, poles, and Catholics are not actual races. But race has come to be at best a generic catch word ethnicity, color, creed or national origin.

    Irish, Italian and Poles are sub-groups of races. We can figure out someone’s race through genetics and race is helpful to Doctors so race is a real thing. If it wasn’t, Doctors wouldn’t care. Catholicism has nothing to do with race.

    I find this unhelpful. A worthy expenditure of our efforts would be to agree with a term that encompasses race, religion, heritage, culture … (I’ve probably missed a few). I think prejudice probably fits bets.

    Every bit of biology I know says that race is a thing. However, I agree with you that prejudice is a word that works for many different things. Humans need an out group to hate from what I’ve observed. Henry Racette disagrees with me in a brilliant fashion but I still think I am right.

    • #62
  3. DrewInWisconsin, Ope! Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Ope!
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Zafar (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Ope! (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them.

    I give a pass to American Citizens who were not allowed to chose the current administration, but had it foisted upon them through a mix of outright vote fraud and illegal voting mechanism used by Democrats. (Such as in my own state, where we continue to uncover fraudulently-cast votes.)

    Okay, so Russian elections are free and fair, more so than the US’?

    I doubt it. Sounds like one rule for thee and another for me.

    I’m just saying that Skyler’s assertion — “A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them” — only works in a system with secure democratic voting. I can’t speak for Russia but we certainly don’t have that here. Therefore I am not responsible in any way for the evil Biden administration. (And I sure as hell didn’t vote for him.)

    Unless he’s saying that to “allow” means we aren’t setting up necessary guillotines in the public square. And because we’re not, we must share guilt.

    • #63
  4. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DrewInWisconsin, Ope! (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them.

    I give a pass to American Citizens who were not allowed to chose the current administration, but had it foisted upon them through a mix of outright vote fraud and illegal voting mechanism used by Democrats. (Such as in my own state, where we continue to uncover fraudulently-cast votes.)

    Joe Biden is not our legitimate president. Therefore I/we are not responsible for the evils his administration is doing.

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Would you agree that this is genocide?

    Genocide? No. Genocide has a very specific definition.

    Would you agree that this is a war crime?

    • #64
  5. Vince Guerra Inactive
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    DrewInWisconsin, Ope! (View Comment):
    I’m just saying that Skyler’s assertion — “A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them” — only works in a system with secure democratic voting. I can’t speak for Russia but we certainly don’t have that here.

    They don’t have that in Ukraine either. We overturned one of theirs in 2014. 

    • #65
  6. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Irish, Italians, Jews, poles, and Catholics are not actual races. But race has come to be at best a generic catch word ethnicity, color, creed or national origin.

    Irish, Italian and Poles are sub-groups of races. We can figure out someone’s race through genetics and race is helpful to Doctors so race is a real thing. If it wasn’t, Doctors wouldn’t care. Catholicism has nothing to do with race.

    I find this unhelpful. A worthy expenditure of our efforts would be to agree with a term that encompasses race, religion, heritage, culture … (I’ve probably missed a few). I think prejudice probably fits bets.

    Bigotry is a much more benign and broadly understood word.

    I think it beats prejudiced.  Regarding another word that’s more or less synonymous, I’ll never forget, as I’ve written here before, reading a sign outside a bar in Ocean City:

    No Harley Hats
    No Harley Patches
    No Harley Leathers
    No Harley Anything

    And a guy standing outside saying, But that’s discrimination.

    And the hostess said, That’s right.  We’re discriminating here.

    • #66
  7. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    DrewInWisconsin, Ope! (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Ope! (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them.

    I give a pass to American Citizens who were not allowed to chose the current administration, but had it foisted upon them through a mix of outright vote fraud and illegal voting mechanism used by Democrats. (Such as in my own state, where we continue to uncover fraudulently-cast votes.)

    Okay, so Russian elections are free and fair, more so than the US’?

    I doubt it. Sounds like one rule for thee and another for me.

    I’m just saying that Skyler’s assertion — “A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them” — only works in a system with secure democratic voting. I can’t speak for Russia but we certainly don’t have that here. Therefore I am not responsible in any way for the evil Biden administration. (And I sure as hell didn’t vote for him.)

    Unless he’s saying that to “allow” means we aren’t setting up necessary guillotines in the public square. And because we’re not, we must share guilt.

    Well I think you are wrong, As much as the Democrats cheated last election, (and they cheated alot) Trump would still have lost in a free and fair election according to Molly Hemingway. 

    Americans are responsible for the Biden presidency and the Canadians for Trudeau. May G-d have mercy on our souls.

    • #67
  8. Vince Guerra Inactive
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    Trump would still have lost in a free and fair election according to Molly Hemingway. 

    He didn’t, and she’s wrong. 

    • #68
  9. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    DrewInWisconsin, Ope! (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Ope! (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them.

    I give a pass to American Citizens who were not allowed to chose the current administration, but had it foisted upon them through a mix of outright vote fraud and illegal voting mechanism used by Democrats. (Such as in my own state, where we continue to uncover fraudulently-cast votes.)

    Okay, so Russian elections are free and fair, more so than the US’?

    I doubt it. Sounds like one rule for thee and another for me.

    I’m just saying that Skyler’s assertion — “A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them” — only works in a system with secure democratic voting.

    That’s not a constraint he included, but okay

    Unless he’s saying that to “allow” means we aren’t setting up necessary guillotines in the public square. And because we’re not, we must share guilt.

    @skyler ??

    • #69
  10. Phil Turmel Inactive
    Phil Turmel
    @PhilTurmel

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):
    Sorry, Karina, you lose because you’re from a  corrupt nation. Deal with it. 

    Yes, that’s reality.  People can change their government by revolution when peaceful means fail.  When one’s government applies their tyranny internally, it is only the those people who suffer for their failure to change their government.  When such a government crosses the border to tyrannize the neighbors, those neighbors have every right to blame the people of the country that invaded them.  Yeah, Karina may be justifiably afraid to stand up to Putin’s government.  But weigh that against the Ukrainians who have no real choice but to stand up against Putin’s government.

    History shows that no government can stand against the will of the people.  Even in Russia.

    This is the fundamental truth to “just war” theory–civilians may not be soldiers, but they are part of any war.  Whether they want to be or not.  Changing one’s government when it behaves immorally is a moral obligation of every person.  Peacefully if possible.  Violently if necessary.  Danger is no excuse.  Excuses by civilians of an aggressor are exactly sufficient to make those civilians responsible for their own suffering in return.

    Sorry, Karina, you lose because you and your fellow citizens didn’t change your corrupt government.  Doesn’t matter what your excuse it.  Deal with it.

    • #70
  11. Gary Robbins Member
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    Trump would still have lost in a free and fair election according to Molly Hemingway.

    He didn’t, and she’s wrong.

    While Democrats used the pandemic to rig the election, that is legal, and it is Republicans fault that they did not address this before the election. 

    The election, like all elections, was rigged.  (In Arizona we have an early closing of the polls at 7:00 p.m.  In Republican Kentucky and Indiana the polls close at 6:00 p.m.!  In liberal New York, the polls close at 9:00 p.m.!)  The 2020 election was rigged more than most elections, but given the pandemic, the rigging was mostly justified.

    However, the election was not stolen.  

     

    • #71
  12. Phil Turmel Inactive
    Phil Turmel
    @PhilTurmel

    DrewInWisconsin, Ope! (View Comment):
    I’m just saying that Skyler’s assertion — “A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them” — only works in a system with secure democratic voting.

    History is full of examples of tyrants deposed by their people.  And with peoples perfectly happy to participate in the tyranny.  No democracy required.  Heck, history is fully of tyrannical democracies (looking at you, Athens).

    I can’t speak for Russia but we certainly don’t have that here. Therefore I am not responsible in any way for the evil Biden administration.

    But you are.  As am I.  Did we speak about politics and morality to enough of our neighbors?  Or did we hide because we have too many neighbors on the opposing side?  Or family was involved? Maybe even threatened?  Or work obligations interfered?  Or work itself is on the opposing side?  Et cetera, ad nauseum.

    Doesn’t matter what the excuse is.  Everyone can come up with one.  Doesn’t change the need to act for the good.  Unless we’ve died fighting to change our immoral government, we are still responsible.

    • #72
  13. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    OmegaPaladin:

    People who live in Russia cannot receive money via Patreon or other donation services. One guy I support was developing a video game trading market, and got completely cut off. He can’t even use online development tools.

    War is Hell!

    • #73
  14. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Irish, Italians, Jews, poles, and Catholics are not actual races. But race has come to be at best a generic catch word ethnicity, color, creed or national origin.

    Irish, Italian and Poles are sub-groups of races. We can figure out someone’s race through genetics and race is helpful to Doctors so race is a real thing. If it wasn’t, Doctors wouldn’t care. Catholicism has nothing to do with race.

    I find this unhelpful. A worthy expenditure of our efforts would be to agree with a term that encompasses race, religion, heritage, culture … (I’ve probably missed a few). I think prejudice probably fits bets.

    Bigotry is a much more benign and broadly understood word.

    I think it beats prejudiced. Regarding another word that’s more or less synonymous, I’ll never forget, as I’ve written here before, reading a sign outside a bar in Ocean City:

    No Harley Hats
    No Harley Patches
    No Harley Leathers
    No Harley Anything

    And a guy standing outside saying, But that’s discrimination.

    And the hostess said, That’s right. We’re discriminating here.

    Would they object to a burly, bearded fellow wearing a leather jacket with Vespa and rainbow patches? 🌈 

    • #74
  15. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    DonG (CAGW is a Hoax) (View Comment):

    OmegaPaladin: I want Putin to lose. I want him to learn that if a country wants freedom, he cannot take it away. I’m cheering for Ukraine.

    Is anybody else bothered by the fact that Ukraine partnered with the Obama White House to actively attack candidate Trump? From the Ukrainian ambassador writing op-eds against Trump to the White House and CIA personal collaborating for months to manufacture dirt on Trump, it is really troubling. To me that makes the Ukrainian government an enemy of the USA. No better than China, just smaller in scale. Was there a “good guy” in the Iran-Iraq war?

    On the other hand, several Ukrainian Parliament members gave long interviews to Rudy Giuliani exculpating Trump and incriminating the Biden administration of wrongdoing.  It culminated in a three-hour presentation on One America Network, but was pretty much ignored by all the press, including the conservative press.

    https://www.oann.com/oaninvestigates/

    • #75
  16. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    Before a single Ukrainian suffers, or a single American suffers for that matter, the people of Russia deserve to suffer a harsh punishment. The people of every country should know that allowing their ruler to behave the way Russia is behaving means that they will be hurt severely. They are in the best position to stop their ruler, they allow their ruler to remain in power. There should be a heavy price for their failure to stop him.

    You’ve just crossed over a line that is hard to cross back from. I pray you choose to consider where that road leads.

    The people of any territory have marginal control over their leadership, jusk a few Cambodians, or Iraqis, or Alaskans.

    Or Californians for that matter …

    But didn’t we hear that something like 80%+ of Russians support Putin?

    • #76
  17. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    It is hard for me to feel sorry for Russian citizens that have to line-up at an ATM. They get to sleep in their own beds every night.

    This is false equivalence. 

    At best, it assumes that inconveniencing Russian citizens has an effect on Putin’s actions. The ordinary Russian citizen has no more control of what Vladimir does than and average Ukrainian.

    I don’t think that depriving Russians -of all people –  of modern goods and services will translate into a revolution or insurgency for quite some time, considering their history of enduring hardship.

    I don’t think anyone expects you to feel equally sorry for someone who is inconvenienced at an ATM  versus someone who is losing home, country and life. Is there someone who is expecting that? If not, why say it?

    Is it that you want to see pain inflicted on the Russian people? For tolerating Putin? If indeed, your assumptions are correct, that some level of pain inflicted on the Russian people will cause the downfall of Putin (assuming someone less tyrannical emerges) at what point would you be satisfied? Or, when would you start feeling equally sorry for them? When they get bombed and over-run? But then, they started it, right?

    I’d be interested to hear you talk about how American citizens are responsible for civilian deaths and  various atrocities in Viet Nam,  Iraq and elsewhere. We should have elected McGovern?

    This is fundamentally leftist ideology that plays on envy, and the concept of privilege.

    Skyler (View Comment):

    Before a single Ukrainian suffers, or a single American suffers for that matter, the people of Russia deserve to suffer a harsh punishment.  The people of every country should know that allowing their ruler to behave the way Russia is behaving means that they will be hurt severely.  They are in the best position to stop their ruler, they allow their ruler to remain in power.  There should be a heavy price for their failure to stop him.

    What world do you live in? Must be great to feel like your country and your leaders are so good, you don’t have to personally stop them!

    • #77
  18. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Irish, Italians, Jews, poles, and Catholics are not actual races. But race has come to be at best a generic catch word ethnicity, color, creed or national origin.

    Irish, Italian and Poles are sub-groups of races. We can figure out someone’s race through genetics and race is helpful to Doctors so race is a real thing. If it wasn’t, Doctors wouldn’t care. Catholicism has nothing to do with race.

    I find this unhelpful. A worthy expenditure of our efforts would be to agree with a term that encompasses race, religion, heritage, culture … (I’ve probably missed a few). I think prejudice probably fits bets.

    Bigotry is a much more benign and broadly understood word.

    I think it beats prejudiced. Regarding another word that’s more or less synonymous, I’ll never forget, as I’ve written here before, reading a sign outside a bar in Ocean City:

    No Harley Hats
    No Harley Patches
    No Harley Leathers
    No Harley Anything

    And a guy standing outside saying, But that’s discrimination.

    And the hostess said, That’s right. We’re discriminating here.

    Agreed. Agree that discrimination is not always bad. I am discriminating about many things 

    • #78
  19. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Irish, Italians, Jews, poles, and Catholics are not actual races. But race has come to be at best a generic catch word ethnicity, color, creed or national origin.

    Irish, Italian and Poles are sub-groups of races. We can figure out someone’s race through genetics and race is helpful to Doctors so race is a real thing. If it wasn’t, Doctors wouldn’t care. Catholicism has nothing to do with race.

    I find this unhelpful. A worthy expenditure of our efforts would be to agree with a term that encompasses race, religion, heritage, culture … (I’ve probably missed a few). I think prejudice probably fits bets.

    Bigotry is a much more benign and broadly understood word.

    I think it beats prejudiced. Regarding another word that’s more or less synonymous, I’ll never forget, as I’ve written here before, reading a sign outside a bar in Ocean City:

    No Harley Hats
    No Harley Patches
    No Harley Leathers
    No Harley Anything

    And a guy standing outside saying, But that’s discrimination.

    And the hostess said, That’s right. We’re discriminating here.

    Would they object to a burly, bearded fellow wearing a leather jacket with Vespa and rainbow patches? 🌈

    That’s quite an image, like something out of Raising Arizona.

    But I doubt they would object.  I think I recall a Vespa parked somewhere about that may have belonged to the hostess.

    • #79
  20. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Ope! (View Comment):
    I’m just saying that Skyler’s assertion — “A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them” — only works in a system with secure democratic voting.

    History is full of examples of tyrants deposed by their people. And with peoples perfectly happy to participate in the tyranny. No democracy required. Heck, history is fully of tyrannical democracies (looking at you, Athens).

    I can’t speak for Russia but we certainly don’t have that here. Therefore I am not responsible in any way for the evil Biden administration.

    But you are. As am I. Did we speak about politics and morality to enough of our neighbors? Or did we hide because we have too many neighbors on the opposing side? Or family was involved? Maybe even threatened? Or work obligations interfered? Or work itself is on the opposing side? Et cetera, ad nauseum.

    Doesn’t matter what the excuse is. Everyone can come up with one. Doesn’t change the need to act for the good. Unless we’ve died fighting to change our immoral government, we are still responsible.

    The state governments of the Southern United States for awhile were enthusiastically for Jim Crow. Now I know that black-Americans for over a decade have fled blue states for red states and I don’t want to bash white Southerners. But Jim Crow was sadly popular among whites for a long time. (Especially among white Democrats.) I would say that the white Southern Democrats have some responsibility for the stupid Jim Crow laws.

    • #80
  21. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    My brother and I were going round and round on this earlier this week. Not necessarily in disagreement; just trying to get some working definitions.

    What I’m getting at is “that” (racism, bigotry, discrimination, whatever we agree to call it) is wrong. Period. Even though it is part of our human nature.

    What we’ve been doing is defining as wrong specific actions against specific groups.

    Per my example, Japanese internment was wrong. Ooooookay. But I’ve spent over a year with some people (and some of those people had power) being perfectly okay with the internment of the ill, the might be ill, the not ill but unvaccinated.

    Yes. What bothers me is the loose use of terms (and functionally, fairly pejorative terms) like race, other and tribal. Other and othering are really used in a pejorative way for alien and alienizing; similarly tribe and tribal are used in place of the clearer and more appropriate and less pejorative faction and factional; and race (in common usage) is a garbage term being used in place of ethnicity, culture or some genetic heritage or lineage. In fact, lineage is a classic non-“racial” use of the term race.

    I’m all for using terms in their proper context, like the word “racism.”   It shouldn’t be used willy-nilly to describe any form of bigotry, no matter if it involves race or not.  Lefties too often distort the meanings of words until they become meaningless.  I resist falling in line with leftist language-twisting.

    • #81
  22. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them. They are in the best position to overthrow their rulers. It is their responsibility. They are among the most important to punish, not the the least important. Their lives should be made even more intolerable when their ruler causes us pain.

    Before a single Ukrainian suffers, or a single American suffers for that matter, the people of Russia deserve to suffer a harsh punishment. The people of every country should know that allowing their ruler to behave the way Russia is behaving means that they will be hurt severely. They are in the best position to stop their ruler, they allow their ruler to remain in power. There should be a heavy price for their failure to stop him.

    So when American policies hurt people in other countries then the American people become a legitimate target?

    Well, the moment we go around invading peaceful countries, then yes.

    • #82
  23. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    If this isn’t racism, I don’t know what is.

    Ukrainians belong to about the same exact racial group as European Russians, but everyone loves them.  Weird.  I guess we’ll never know the answer.

     

    • #83
  24. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Irish, Italians, Jews, poles, and Catholics are not actual races. But race has come to be at best a generic catch word ethnicity, color, creed or national origin.

    Irish, Italian and Poles are sub-groups of races. We can figure out someone’s race through genetics and race is helpful to Doctors so race is a real thing. If it wasn’t, Doctors wouldn’t care. Catholicism has nothing to do with race.

    I find this unhelpful. A worthy expenditure of our efforts would be to agree with a term that encompasses race, religion, heritage, culture … (I’ve probably missed a few). I think prejudice probably fits bets.

    Bigotry is a much more benign and broadly understood word.

    I think it beats prejudiced. Regarding another word that’s more or less synonymous, I’ll never forget, as I’ve written here before, reading a sign outside a bar in Ocean City:

    No Harley Hats
    No Harley Patches
    No Harley Leathers
    No Harley Anything

    And a guy standing outside saying, But that’s discrimination.

    And the hostess said, That’s right. We’re discriminating here.

    Agreed. Agree that discrimination is not always bad. I am discriminating about many things

    :)  Yes.  And like race, discrimination can mean two different things to two different people in the same conversation.

    • #84
  25. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Irish, Italians, Jews, poles, and Catholics are not actual races. But race has come to be at best a generic catch word ethnicity, color, creed or national origin.

    Irish, Italian and Poles are sub-groups of races. We can figure out someone’s race through genetics and race is helpful to Doctors so race is a real thing. If it wasn’t, Doctors wouldn’t care. Catholicism has nothing to do with race.

    I find this unhelpful. A worthy expenditure of our efforts would be to agree with a term that encompasses race, religion, heritage, culture … (I’ve probably missed a few). I think prejudice probably fits bets.

    The term you are looking for is “bigotry.”  It includes not only racial bigotry, but all forms of dislike based on other factors.  You can be bigoted based on people’s color of underwear.  [edit] As Henry remarked, the word “prejudice” also works.

    • #85
  26. Locke On Member
    Locke On
    @LockeOn

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Russian forces have been targeting homes, hospitals, and schools.

    I think that this remains unproven, Doug. There is evidence that some such locations were hit. Not many, as far as I can tell. I don’t think that there’s evidence of deliberate targeting of civilians. Figuring this out would require us to know what military targets might be in a particular area at the time of the attack, which is generally not known, as far as I can tell.

    It’s also not clear who is doing the destruction in any particular case. Yesterday, you posted a video of a Ukrainian attack on a Russian tank column in what looked like a suburban area. There was some collateral damage, it appeared.

    I think that these excessive accusations may be dangerous to the Ukrainians. If the Russians are being fairly restrained about attacking civilians, as it appears, then accusing them of serious war crimes may make them think that they have little left to lose, if they actually start targeting civilians in large numbers.

    I think that the destruction could be absolutely appalling, if the Russians have as much artillery as I expect, and if they actually decided to start terror-bombing.

    Let’s see if we can agree about Mariupol which is the last remaining Ukrainian city on the Black Sea. Mariupol was Ukraine’s tenth largest city with over 400,000 people. Mariupol is had no power for a week. It has no access to food. Russia has refused to allow safe passage for its residents who want to leave for the last week I believe. The residents of Mariupol are starving and freezing to death. Would you agree that this is genocide?

    You’re not asking me, but frankly … I’m not in an agreeable mood. What you have claimed may or may not be true. I’m no longer reacting and feeling based upon what I’m told or what I read. I’m 63 – 63 years of life and emotion and reacting are about 58 years too many.

    Here’s what Mariupol looks like right now:

    It’s not hard to find out what’s going on, if you’re interested in knowing.

    • #86
  27. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Annefy (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):
    Irish, Italians, Jews, poles, and Catholics are not actual races. But race has come to be at best a generic catch word ethnicity, color, creed or national origin.

    Irish, Italian and Poles are sub-groups of races. We can figure out someone’s race through genetics and race is helpful to Doctors so race is a real thing. If it wasn’t, Doctors wouldn’t care. Catholicism has nothing to do with race.

    I find this unhelpful. A worthy expenditure of our efforts would be to agree with a term that encompasses race, religion, heritage, culture … (I’ve probably missed a few). I think prejudice probably fits bets.

    Bigotry is a much more benign and broadly understood word.

    I think it beats prejudiced. Regarding another word that’s more or less synonymous, I’ll never forget, as I’ve written here before, reading a sign outside a bar in Ocean City:

    No Harley Hats
    No Harley Patches
    No Harley Leathers
    No Harley Anything

    And a guy standing outside saying, But that’s discrimination.

    And the hostess said, That’s right. We’re discriminating here.

    Agreed. Agree that discrimination is not always bad. I am discriminating about many things

    :) Yes. And like race, discrimination can mean two different things to two different people in the same conversation.

    I discriminate  against people who smell bad or who are convicted pedophiles. I discriminate against he lazy and towards the hardworking. I also discriminate against the small number of whites who are white supremacists as I discriminate against black supremacists.

    • #87
  28. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Ope! (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    A people are responsible for those they allow to rule them.

    I give a pass to American Citizens who were not allowed to chose the current administration, but had it foisted upon them through a mix of outright vote fraud and illegal voting mechanism used by Democrats. (Such as in my own state, where we continue to uncover fraudulently-cast votes.)

    Joe Biden is not our legitimate president. Therefore I/we are not responsible for the evils his administration is doing.

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    Would you agree that this is genocide?

    Genocide? No. Genocide has a very specific definition.

    Would you agree that this is a war crime?

    Let’s look at this. A lawyer who should understand the meaning of terms, cites “genocide” with zero evidence. Genocide is a very strong term and you have to kill a lot of people – specific people of some tribe or race, systematically.

    He throws around this charge, cheapening the term – which to me is outrageous – I really don’t know what the punishment should be for this kind of loose rhetoric (maybe refusal of services from Visa?) and then negotiates downwards to “war crimes”.  Either this man doesn’t understand the meaning of “war crimes” or he is just another lawyer throwing around words to accomplish a result for his client.

    • #88
  29. Vince Guerra Inactive
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Phil Turmel (View Comment):

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):
    Sorry, Karina, you lose because you’re from a corrupt nation. Deal with it.

    Yes, that’s reality. People can change their government by revolution when peaceful means fail. When one’s government applies their tyranny internally, it is only the those people who suffer for their failure to change their government. When such a government crosses the border to tyrannize the neighbors, those neighbors have every right to blame the people of the country that invaded them. Yeah, Karina may be justifiably afraid to stand up to Putin’s government. But weigh that against the Ukrainians who have no real choice but to stand up against Putin’s government.

    History shows that no government can stand against the will of the people. Even in Russia.

    This is the fundamental truth to “just war” theory–civilians may not be soldiers, but they are part of any war. Whether they want to be or not. Changing one’s government when it behaves immorally is a moral obligation of every person. Peacefully if possible. Violently if necessary. Danger is no excuse. Excuses by civilians of an aggressor are exactly sufficient to make those civilians responsible for their own suffering in return.

    Sorry, Karina, you lose because you and your fellow citizens didn’t change your corrupt government. Doesn’t matter what your excuse it. Deal with it.

    The first part of your argument is fine, I agree with all of that. 

    The second part is antithetical to American ideals. We support and empower the notion of liberty and justice for all, be they behind an iron or bamboo curtain or a burka. To deny the fruits of freedom to people in restricted nations, just because we don’t like their leadership flies in the face of our own ideals and makes a mockery of those who went to great lengths to beam Reagan’s broadcasts into the Soviet Union, or smuggle bibles into China, Iran, etc…

    You want to deny Karina freedom of commerce and opportunity to live a better life than her circumstances provide. America was founded on the opposite principle. 

    • #89
  30. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Vince Guerra (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):
    I feel worse for the people being shelled.

    Do you? Which ones?

    The ones who didn’t invade another country

    • #90
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