Biden Mumbles Statement on Ukraine

 

No one expects a Biden statement to build confidence on the homefront or inspire fear in our enemies. So we shouldn’t be surprised the president’s brief presser on Friday was an hour late and won’t change much between Russia and Ukraine.

The only news was the president saying he is now convinced Putin plans to invade his smaller neighbor. “Ashuhv hiss momen ahm covissed he’s made uh deshishan,” Biden mumbled, but stressed the Russian leader can choose diplomacy any time he wants. (Or, “dipomacy aways possumility” in Biden-speak.)

Russia was likely behind a massive cyberattack on Ukraine earlier this week, a typical pre-invasion move. Putin has 169,000-190,000 troops in or near Ukraine and in the past two days has blamed several “attacks” in the Donbas region on Ukrainian troops. False-flag ops are often used as a pretext for war, especially in Russian military history.

Vice President Kamala Harris is currently in Munich for Saturday peace talks and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is scheduled to attend. Many US and NATO officials, along with several Ukraine politicians, are urging him to remain in his own country due to the worsening situation.

All indications point to a Russian invasion any day now. In essence, a replay of the seizure of Crimea when Biden was vice president.

Published in Foreign Policy, Military, Politics
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  1. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    I have full confidence that Kamala Harris will work wonders as our representative in Munich

    Munich, Hmmm, Munich Peace talks, Now where have I heard this play out before?

    Munich Agreement, Sudetenland, Chamberlain

    Munich Talks, Ukraine, Harris

     

    Maybe Marx got one thing right.

    History repeats itself, first as tragedy second as farce.

     

    • #31
  2. WI Con Member
    WI Con
    @WICon

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Kamala Harris in Munich, what possibly could go wrong?

    I’m betting she’ll do her “Faulty Towers-Goose step” impression while cackling.

    • #32
  3. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    WI Con (View Comment):

    DaveSchmidt (View Comment):

    Kamala Harris in Munich, what possibly could go wrong?

    I’m betting she’ll do her “Faulty Towers-Goose step” impression while cackling.

    Let’s assume there will be a “welcome on the tarmac” when she returns.  If you were her speech writer, what would you have the VP say? 

    • #33
  4. DrewInWisconsin, Oik Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oik
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed. (View Comment):
    Another point: If Putin disappeared tomorrow, nearly any leader who replaced him would be doing the same thing. Again, this isn’t about DC or the US, but about Russia and Ukraine.

    Yes.

    We really can’t do much .

    As Ric Grennell pointed out last night on Greg Kelly’s show, we haven’t even attempted any kind of diplomatic actions yet. We could do sanctions. We could cut off that Nordstream Pipeline. It’s complete, but I’m not sure it’s operational yet. Crazy that Biden gave his blessings to it. He’s more Putin’s puppet than Trump ever was (and Trump was definitely no such thing). But Biden isn’t even seeking a diplomatic solution. He’s just rattling his sabre. It’s almost as if . . . he wants this invasion.

    • #34
  5. WI Con Member
    WI Con
    @WICon

    Jon Gabriel, Ed. (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):

    There are several nefarious actors and sub-groups, including legitimately armed Neo-nazis by anyone’s definition fighting the Russians. It is beyond complicated.

    Please share your sources in your posts for reference. You get your information from somewhere like the rest of us. But it’s hard to care about these disputes at this point. So soon after the Afghanistan debacle. I do not want to be involved in this. At all. Not with this administration, our corrupt and politically charged intel We must question what we ourselves know by open conversation rather than act like these strange diversions are legitimate.

    I’ve been following so many intel accounts online, but a good aggregator is ELINT which compiles detailed geolocation and satellite shots of troop movements. And I TOTALLY agree with you, Franco, that the US should not, never, nuh-uh, no way, jump into this mess. My podcast ~3 weeks ago features Gray Connolly and we were in complete agreement on that point. Ukraine and Russia have a 1,000-year history and this fight has to do with that history and not the US or NATO. In my view, NATO should have been disbanded once the Soviet Union collapsed. Barring that, we shouldn’t have moved any further east than Poland. All NATO’s meddling in the east makes war more likely, not less.

    Another point: If Putin disappeared tomorrow, nearly any leader who replaced him would be doing the same thing. Again, this isn’t about DC or the US, but about Russia and Ukraine.

    I’ve had a long interest in World War I history. Reflecting on the system of alliances then, it seems to me that further expanding (forget the worthwhile idea of disbanding) NATO into areas with long histories of territorial conflict and changing borders has that same potential for disaster and increases the danger. 

    I feel for the Ukranian people and recognize the long history of Russian & Soviet oppression there, on the other hand, Russia’s claim to say, the port of Sevastopol goes back to 1700(?). I can understand that claim. 

     

    • #35
  6. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    DrewInWisconsin, Oik (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed. (View Comment):
    Another point: If Putin disappeared tomorrow, nearly any leader who replaced him would be doing the same thing. Again, this isn’t about DC or the US, but about Russia and Ukraine.

    Yes.

    We really can’t do much .

    As Ric Grennell pointed out last night on Greg Kelly’s show, we haven’t even attempted any kind of diplomatic actions yet. We could do sanctions. We cut off that Nordstream Pipeline. It’s complete, but I’m not sure it’s operational yet. Crazy that Biden gave his blessings to it. He’s more Putin’s puppet than Trump ever was (and Trump was definitely no such thing). But Biden isn’t even seeking a diplomatic solution. He’s just rattling his sabre. It’s almost as if . . . he wants this invasion.

     

    Biden isn’t rattling any sabres. He is just scraping the bottom of his Jello bowl with a plastic spoon. 

    • #36
  7. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    I have full confidence that Kamala Harris will work wonders as our representative in Munich

    Munich, Hmmm, Munich Peace talks, Now where have I heard this play out before?

    Munich Agreement, Sudetenland, Chamberlain

    Munich Talks, Ukraine, Harris

     

    Maybe Marx got one thing right.

    History repeats itself, first as tragedy second as farce.

     

    Marx the excrement got that wrong too.  Marxism in his life was a farce, and now it’s a tragedy.  :-)

    • #37
  8. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    BDB (View Comment):
    Marx the excrement got that wrong too.  Marxism in his life was a farce, and now it’s a tragedy.  :-)

    I find myself unable to disagree.

    • #38
  9. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    WI Con (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed. (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):

    There are several nefarious actors and sub-groups, including legitimately armed Neo-nazis by anyone’s definition fighting the Russians. It is beyond complicated.

    Please share your sources in your posts for reference. You get your information from somewhere like the rest of us. But it’s hard to care about these disputes at this point. So soon after the Afghanistan debacle. I do not want to be involved in this. At all. Not with this administration, our corrupt and politically charged intel We must question what we ourselves know by open conversation rather than act like these strange diversions are legitimate.

    I’ve been following so many intel accounts online, but a good aggregator is ELINT which compiles detailed geolocation and satellite shots of troop movements. And I TOTALLY agree with you, Franco, that the US should not, never, nuh-uh, no way, jump into this mess. My podcast ~3 weeks ago features Gray Connolly and we were in complete agreement on that point. Ukraine and Russia have a 1,000-year history and this fight has to do with that history and not the US or NATO. In my view, NATO should have been disbanded once the Soviet Union collapsed. Barring that, we shouldn’t have moved any further east than Poland. All NATO’s meddling in the east makes war more likely, not less.

    Another point: If Putin disappeared tomorrow, nearly any leader who replaced him would be doing the same thing. Again, this isn’t about DC or the US, but about Russia and Ukraine.

    I’ve had a long interest in World War I history. Reflecting on the system of alliances then, it seems to me that further expanding (forget the worthwhile idea of disbanding) NATO into areas with long histories of territorial conflict and changing borders has that same potential for disaster and increases the danger.

    I feel for the Ukranian people and recognize the long history of Russian & Soviet oppression there, on the other hand, Russia’s claim to say, the port of Sevastopol goes back to 1700(?). I can understand that claim.

    Does it really matter what the situation was 300 years ago?  The situation in the ground is fixed by existing generations. It’s like the American Indians claiming they have rights to states in the United States today. History is over. Let’s try to achieve fairness based on what people living today want and identify. A claim from 300 years ago is meaningless.

    • #39
  10. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Manny (View Comment):

    WI Con (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed. (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):

    There are several nefarious actors and sub-groups, including legitimately armed Neo-nazis by anyone’s definition fighting the Russians. It is beyond complicated.

    Please share your sources in your posts for reference. You get your information from somewhere like the rest of us. But it’s hard to care about these disputes at this point. So soon after the Afghanistan debacle. I do not want to be involved in this. At all. Not with this administration, our corrupt and politically charged intel We must question what we ourselves know by open conversation rather than act like these strange diversions are legitimate.

    I’ve been following so many intel accounts online, but a good aggregator is ELINT which compiles detailed geolocation and satellite shots of troop movements. And I TOTALLY agree with you, Franco, that the US should not, never, nuh-uh, no way, jump into this mess. My podcast ~3 weeks ago features Gray Connolly and we were in complete agreement on that point. Ukraine and Russia have a 1,000-year history and this fight has to do with that history and not the US or NATO. In my view, NATO should have been disbanded once the Soviet Union collapsed. Barring that, we shouldn’t have moved any further east than Poland. All NATO’s meddling in the east makes war more likely, not less.

    Another point: If Putin disappeared tomorrow, nearly any leader who replaced him would be doing the same thing. Again, this isn’t about DC or the US, but about Russia and Ukraine.

    I’ve had a long interest in World War I history. Reflecting on the system of alliances then, it seems to me that further expanding (forget the worthwhile idea of disbanding) NATO into areas with long histories of territorial conflict and changing borders has that same potential for disaster and increases the danger.

    I feel for the Ukranian people and recognize the long history of Russian & Soviet oppression there, on the other hand, Russia’s claim to say, the port of Sevastopol goes back to 1700(?). I can understand that claim.

    Does it really matter what the situation was 300 years ago? The situation in the ground is fixed by existing generations. It’s like the American Indians claiming they have rights to deaths if the United States today. History is over. Let’s try to achieve fairness based on what people living today want and identify. A claim from 300 years ago is meaningless.

    I disagree with you and Fukuyama.

    • #40
  11. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Manny (View Comment):
    A claim from 300 years ago is meaningless.

    True

    • #41
  12. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    A claim from 300 years ago is meaningless.

    True

    Our Constitution is 235 years old. It is not meaningless. 

    • #42
  13. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    May I ask? Where is the Russian Orthodox Church in this Ukraine invasion? Have they made a statement? Are they supporting Putin and the invasion or are they against it? They have an obligation to make a statement concerning the morality of this action, whether supportive of Putin or against. I have not seen anything from the Russian Church.

    I’m pretty sure they want the Ukrainian Uniate church back.

    What do you mean back?  Back to where?  Under Russian Orthodox control?  

    • #43
  14. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    A claim from 300 years ago is meaningless.

    True

    Our Constitution is 235 years old. It is not meaningless.

    So the American Indians have a right to swaths of American territory?

    • #44
  15. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    BDB (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    WI Con (View Comment):

    Jon Gabriel, Ed. (View Comment):

    Franco (View Comment):

    There are several nefarious actors and sub-groups, including legitimately armed Neo-nazis by anyone’s definition fighting the Russians. It is beyond complicated.

    Please share your sources in your posts for reference. You get your information from somewhere like the rest of us. But it’s hard to care about these disputes at this point. So soon after the Afghanistan debacle. I do not want to be involved in this. At all. Not with this administration, our corrupt and politically charged intel We must question what we ourselves know by open conversation rather than act like these strange diversions are legitimate.

    I’ve been following so many intel accounts online, but a good aggregator is ELINT which compiles detailed geolocation and satellite shots of troop movements. And I TOTALLY agree with you, Franco, that the US should not, never, nuh-uh, no way, jump into this mess. My podcast ~3 weeks ago features Gray Connolly and we were in complete agreement on that point. Ukraine and Russia have a 1,000-year history and this fight has to do with that history and not the US or NATO. In my view, NATO should have been disbanded once the Soviet Union collapsed. Barring that, we shouldn’t have moved any further east than Poland. All NATO’s meddling in the east makes war more likely, not less.

    Another point: If Putin disappeared tomorrow, nearly any leader who replaced him would be doing the same thing. Again, this isn’t about DC or the US, but about Russia and Ukraine.

    I’ve had a long interest in World War I history. Reflecting on the system of alliances then, it seems to me that further expanding (forget the worthwhile idea of disbanding) NATO into areas with long histories of territorial conflict and changing borders has that same potential for disaster and increases the danger.

    I feel for the Ukranian people and recognize the long history of Russian & Soviet oppression there, on the other hand, Russia’s claim to say, the port of Sevastopol goes back to 1700(?). I can understand that claim.

    Does it really matter what the situation was 300 years ago? The situation in the ground is fixed by existing generations. It’s like the American Indians claiming they have rights to deaths if the United States today. History is over. Let’s try to achieve fairness based on what people living today want and identify. A claim from 300 years ago is meaningless.

    I disagree with you and Fukuyama.

    I meant that history is over, the history of the territory of 300 years ago.  Not history in general.

    • #45
  16. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Manny (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    May I ask? Where is the Russian Orthodox Church in this Ukraine invasion? Have they made a statement? Are they supporting Putin and the invasion or are they against it? They have an obligation to make a statement concerning the morality of this action, whether supportive of Putin or against. I have not seen anything from the Russian Church.

    I’m pretty sure they want the Ukrainian Uniate church back.

    What do you mean back? Back to where? Under Russian Orthodox control?

    I’m a little fuzzy on the history of “back,” but yes, it has been in the news that the Russian Orthodox church thinks it all should be theirs.  The Russian Orthodox church is tight with Putin and vice versa. If there was to be a breakup between the two, it would be a very big deal.  

    • #46
  17. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Manny (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    A claim from 300 years ago is meaningless.

    True

    Our Constitution is 235 years old. It is not meaningless.

    So the American Indians have a right to swaths of American territory?

    Only where there is a treaty in force (which hasn’t been relinquished by both parties) that says so.  (I’m not sure relinquished is the best technical term.) 

    • #47
  18. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    Manny (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    May I ask? Where is the Russian Orthodox Church in this Ukraine invasion? Have they made a statement? Are they supporting Putin and the invasion or are they against it? They have an obligation to make a statement concerning the morality of this action, whether supportive of Putin or against. I have not seen anything from the Russian Church.

    I’m pretty sure they want the Ukrainian Uniate church back.

    What do you mean back? Back to where? Under Russian Orthodox control?

    Yes. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) split from the  Russian Orthodox Church (ROC). The Ecumenical Patriarch granted the UOC autocephaly (basically recognizing it as its own church and granting its bishops the power to conduct sacraments, ordain priests, etc., though this is an oversimplification). The ROC broke communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate over this.

    • #48
  19. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    A claim from 300 years ago is meaningless.

    True

    Our Constitution is 235 years old. It is not meaningless.

    It is also an enduring claim, not one that ceased 300 years ago. A claim for something decided 300 years ago (for or against) has no bearing today.

    • #49
  20. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Manny (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    A claim from 300 years ago is meaningless.

    True

    Our Constitution is 235 years old. It is not meaningless.

    So the American Indians have a right to swaths of American territory?

    All eleven of them?

    • #50
  21. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    May I ask? Where is the Russian Orthodox Church in this Ukraine invasion? Have they made a statement? Are they supporting Putin and the invasion or are they against it? They have an obligation to make a statement concerning the morality of this action, whether supportive of Putin or against. I have not seen anything from the Russian Church.

    I’m pretty sure they want the Ukrainian Uniate church back.

    What do you mean back? Back to where? Under Russian Orthodox control?

    I’m a little fuzzy on the history of “back,” but yes, it has been in the news that the Russian Orthodox church thinks it all should be theirs. The Russian Orthodox church is tight with Putin and vice versa. If there was to be a breakup between the two, it would be a very big deal.

    My feel is that this is not what they are fighting over, hough it may add to the complications.  The Orthodox Churches are national churches and there is a Ukrainian Orthodox Church.  I realize it split from the ROC.  If anything, this shows you how Ukraine wants to sever its ties to Russia, both politically and religiously and align with the west.  Whatever the religious infighting, Putin is doing this because Putin wants Ukraine or part of it.  He will get it I’m afraid.  

    • #51
  22. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Instugator (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Instugator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):
    A claim from 300 years ago is meaningless.

    True

    Our Constitution is 235 years old. It is not meaningless.

    It is also an enduring claim, not one that ceased 300 years ago. A claim for something decided 300 years ago (for or against) has no bearing today.

    The Magna Carta is a dead letter then?

    • #52
  23. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Manny (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    May I ask? Where is the Russian Orthodox Church in this Ukraine invasion? Have they made a statement? Are they supporting Putin and the invasion or are they against it? They have an obligation to make a statement concerning the morality of this action, whether supportive of Putin or against. I have not seen anything from the Russian Church.

    I’m pretty sure they want the Ukrainian Uniate church back.

    What do you mean back? Back to where? Under Russian Orthodox control?

    I’m a little fuzzy on the history of “back,” but yes, it has been in the news that the Russian Orthodox church thinks it all should be theirs. The Russian Orthodox church is tight with Putin and vice versa. If there was to be a breakup between the two, it would be a very big deal.

    My feel is that this is not what they are fighting over, hough it may add to the complications. The Orthodox Churches are national churches and there is a Ukrainian Orthodox Church. I realize it split from the ROC. If anything, this shows you how Ukraine wants to sever its ties to Russia, both politically and religiously and align with the west. Whatever the religious infighting, Putin is doing this because Putin wants Ukraine or part of it. He will get it I’m afraid.

    YouTuber Olga Reznikova has recently put up some interesting videos about the history of the conflict between Ukraine and Russia.  I’m not sure why I followed some episodes of her channel a few years ago, but I remember some videos about Ukrainian culture and economy. Maybe she had a few episodes about the Ukrainian language, which would have been a reason I would have found her in the first place.

    YouTube has recently been showing me a few more of her videos. She has changed. Her English has gotten better, and she now has a link for those who want to chat with Ukrainian girls. (I haven’t gone there.) A few weeks ago she had a video showing how the invasion threat was not affecting anything in her world–everything was going on as usual.

    And now she has gotten more political, talking more about the Russia-Ukraine conflict. One interesting video was about how Russia stole Ukraine’s history.  I don’t know how accurate it all is. She is definitely a Ukrainian partisan, but I imagine it’s at least as accurate as Putin’s propaganda on the conflict, which seems to have quite a few echoes here on Ricochet.

    Ah, here it is: “How Russia steal [sic] Ukrainian history.”

    It might be of interest to those who would like to hear some side of the conflict other than Putin’s.

    • #53
  24. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    at least as accurate as Putin’s propaganda on the conflict, which seems to have quite a few echoes here on Ricochet.

    Russian Agents, no doubt.

    • #54
  25. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    BDB (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    at least as accurate as Putin’s propaganda on the conflict, which seems to have quite a few echoes here on Ricochet.

    Russian Agents, no doubt.

    Maybe. I had bought into some of the propaganda myself until I learned better from a historian who specializes in eastern Europe. Does that make me a Russian Agent? 

    • #55
  26. MWD B612 "Dawg" Member
    MWD B612 "Dawg"
    @danok1

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    May I ask? Where is the Russian Orthodox Church in this Ukraine invasion? Have they made a statement? Are they supporting Putin and the invasion or are they against it? They have an obligation to make a statement concerning the morality of this action, whether supportive of Putin or against. I have not seen anything from the Russian Church.

    I’m pretty sure they want the Ukrainian Uniate church back.

    What do you mean back? Back to where? Under Russian Orthodox control?

    Yes. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) split from the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC). The Ecumenical Patriarch granted the UOC autocephaly (basically recognizing it as its own church and granting its bishops the power to conduct sacraments, ordain priests, etc., though this is an oversimplification). The ROC broke communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate over this.

    Ooops. It’s actually the Orthodox Church of Ukraine, not the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

    • #56
  27. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    MWD B612 "Dawg" (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    May I ask? Where is the Russian Orthodox Church in this Ukraine invasion? Have they made a statement? Are they supporting Putin and the invasion or are they against it? They have an obligation to make a statement concerning the morality of this action, whether supportive of Putin or against. I have not seen anything from the Russian Church.

    I’m pretty sure they want the Ukrainian Uniate church back.

    What do you mean back? Back to where? Under Russian Orthodox control?

    Yes. The Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) split from the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC). The Ecumenical Patriarch granted the UOC autocephaly (basically recognizing it as its own church and granting its bishops the power to conduct sacraments, ordain priests, etc., though this is an oversimplification). The ROC broke communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate over this.

    Ooops. It’s actually the Orthodox Church of Ukraine, not the Ukrainian Orthodox Church.

    There are congregations here in the United States. I attended a Lenten evening service at one in San Diego several years ago, and during the soup and discussion afterwards had a chance to visit with the priest and his family, and others.  We shared the same preferences in Russian movies.  They are wary of Russian commies and their successors.

    • #57
  28. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    BDB (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    at least as accurate as Putin’s propaganda on the conflict, which seems to have quite a few echoes here on Ricochet.

    Russian Agents, no doubt.

    Maybe. I had bought into some of the propaganda myself until I learned better from a historian who specializes in eastern Europe. Does that make me a Russian Agent?

    Go on — it’s your aria.

    • #58
  29. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    May I ask? Where is the Russian Orthodox Church in this Ukraine invasion? Have they made a statement? Are they supporting Putin and the invasion or are they against it? They have an obligation to make a statement concerning the morality of this action, whether supportive of Putin or against. I have not seen anything from the Russian Church.

    I’m pretty sure they want the Ukrainian Uniate church back.

    What do you mean back? Back to where? Under Russian Orthodox control?

    I’m a little fuzzy on the history of “back,” but yes, it has been in the news that the Russian Orthodox church thinks it all should be theirs. The Russian Orthodox church is tight with Putin and vice versa. If there was to be a breakup between the two, it would be a very big deal.

    My feel is that this is not what they are fighting over, hough it may add to the complications. The Orthodox Churches are national churches and there is a Ukrainian Orthodox Church. I realize it split from the ROC. If anything, this shows you how Ukraine wants to sever its ties to Russia, both politically and religiously and align with the west. Whatever the religious infighting, Putin is doing this because Putin wants Ukraine or part of it. He will get it I’m afraid.

    YouTuber Olga Reznikova has recently put up some interesting videos about the history of the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. I’m not sure why I followed some episodes of her channel a few years ago, but I remember some videos about Ukrainian culture and economy. Maybe she had a few episodes about the Ukrainian language, which would have been a reason I would have found her in the first place.

    YouTube has recently been showing me a few more of her videos. She has changed. Her English has gotten better, and she now has a link for those who want to chat with Ukrainian girls. (I haven’t gone there.) A few weeks ago she had a video showing how the invasion threat was not affecting anything in her world–everything was going on as usual.

    And now she has gotten more political, talking more about the Russia-Ukraine conflict. One interesting video was about how Russia stole Ukraine’s history. I don’t know how accurate it all is. She is definitely a Ukrainian partisan, but I imagine it’s at least as accurate as Putin’s propaganda on the conflict, which seems to have quite a few echoes here on Ricochet.

    Ah, here it is: “How Russia steal [sic] Ukrainian history.”

    It might be of interest to those who would like to hear some side of the conflict other than Putin’s.

    This emphasizes my point that going back hundred of years to justify borders is ridiculous.

    • #59
  30. BDB Coolidge
    BDB
    @BDB

    Manny, you’re looking at it through the lens of the nation-state.  Nothing wrong with that, but a lot of people prefer to view it from the view of a people, the “nation” of the nationalist.  How various people define their “nation” varies, of course.  Then again so do the limits of a nation-state, a fairly recent invention. 

    The Westphalian system is younger than a lot of the national claims and senses of identity.  Inventions like this do not change the underlying facts.  Words on paper and lines on maps mean nothing compared to the idea that “those people over there are my people too”, or “these foreign bastards don’t represent me and will ot rule me.”

    So I can see it both ways.  The way I see it (in general) it’s not about some hundreds-of-years-old claim.  Rather, it’s about the reasons underlying the old claim, which in many places have remained or gotten stronger.

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