Court Order Prevents Nurses from Taking New Jobs in ‘At-Will’ State

 

This is totally outrageous and an example of how our freedoms are gone. The short story is that seven staff from at hospital A found higher-paying jobs at hospital B in an “at will” state. Hospital A had the chance to match the pay and did not, and instead sued for an injunction to prevent B from hiring the staff. And the Judge granted it!

Of course, Hospital A could well fire those people any time they want. But they reserve the right to not let them leave?

We are serfs.

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  1. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Wow. It would have been nice for them to give notice, but Theta can’t demand they wait until replacements are found. It’s called accountability: if you make unethical demands of your employees, they are allowed to leave. Consequences.

    • #1
  2. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    Wisconsin 

    • #2
  3. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Wow. It would have been nice for them to give notice, but Theta can’t demand they wait until replacements are found. It’s called accountability: if you make unethical demands of your employees, they are allowed to leave. Consequences.

    Apparently, they are not allowed to leave. Or at least, they can leave, but they are not then allowed to work elsewhere. 

    This is a human rights violation of the first order. 

    • #3
  4. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    EHerring (View Comment):

    Wisconsin

    @drewinwisconsin

    Is this your fault? :P

    • #4
  5. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    EHerring (View Comment):

    Wisconsin

    @ drewinwisconsin

    Is this your fault? :P

    Everything else is. This might as well be, too.

    • #5
  6. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    EHerring (View Comment):

    Wisconsin

    @ drewinwisconsin

    Is this your fault? :P

    Everything else is. This might as well be, too.

    How Oafish of you.

    • #6
  7. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    It is the sort of thing that defies belief. 

    • #7
  8. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    I finally listened to the whole podcast. Is this the Monday when they’re meeting to make a final decision. Does anyone do the current status.

    It is insane. Lehto is brilliant.

    • #8
  9. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    I finally listened to the whole podcast. Is this the Monday when they’re meeting to make a final decision. Does anyone do the current status.

    It is insane. Lehto is brilliant.

    Yes I think today. 

    He is in my daily list. I love his take on things. 

    I get more and more news from youtube. 

    • #9
  10. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    I think the walls are closing in on the Biden administration under the surface and not being reported by the media, so they are  going crazy.  This judge should be impeached and then tried and shot  for treason. 

    • #10
  11. DonG (CAGW is a hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a hoax)
    @DonG

    Another way to view it, a judge has temporarily (up to 90 days) prevented a huge healthcare company from hiring away an entire emergency care department from some small town provider.   Walmart does stuff like that to mom-and-pop stores in small towns all over America.   

    • #11
  12. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Unsk (View Comment):

    I think the walls are closing in on the Biden administration under the surface and not being reported by the media, so they are going crazy. This judge should be impeached and then tried and shot for treason.

    I am not sure shot.

    • #12
  13. Bluenoser Member
    Bluenoser
    @Bluenoser

    I’m assuming Employer A’s case is based the doctrine of Tortious interference with contract. 

    the injunctive relief granted seems to me to impose an undue hardship on an innocent third party.  But I’m just a disbarred Canadian lawyer; so what do I know? And, more importantly, who cares what I might think?

    • #13
  14. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Bluenoser (View Comment):

    I’m assuming Employer A’s case is based the doctrine of Tortious interference with contract.

    the injunctive relief granted seems to me to impose an undue hardship on an innocent third party. But I’m just a disbarred Canadian lawyer; so what do I know? And, more importantly, who cares what I might think?

    There is no contract. 

    It is a “At Will” state. Employer A and the employees have no contract at all. 

    • #14
  15. Blondie Thatcher
    Blondie
    @Blondie

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Wow. It would have been nice for them to give notice, but Theta can’t demand they wait until replacements are found. It’s called accountability: if you make unethical demands of your employees, they are allowed to leave. Consequences.

    But the thing is, the hospital did know and offered nothing in return to keep them. I’d love to know the real story here. You’d only find out from employees of said hospital. We’ve had what I’d call mass resignations before. After a while somebody finally wakes up and ponies up either money or better benefits/working conditions. Unfortunately, that’s what it takes to get management out of their offices and on the units (I mean more than just the obligatory daily walk through). 

    • #15
  16. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Blondie (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Wow. It would have been nice for them to give notice, but Theta can’t demand they wait until replacements are found. It’s called accountability: if you make unethical demands of your employees, they are allowed to leave. Consequences.

    But the thing is, the hospital did know and offered nothing in return to keep them. I’d love to know the real story here. You’d only find out from employees of said hospital. We’ve had what I’d call mass resignations before. After a while somebody finally wakes up and ponies up either money or better benefits/working conditions. Unfortunately, that’s what it takes to get management out of their offices and on the units (I mean more than just the obligatory daily walk through).

    Management does not care at all in most cases. 

    What is amazing here is they chose legal fees. They are out to punish the workers and to send a message to other workers: You are our slaves. 

    • #16
  17. Blondie Thatcher
    Blondie
    @Blondie

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Management does not care at all in most cases. 

    What is amazing here is they chose legal fees. They are out to punish the workers and to send a message to other workers: You are our slaves. 

    You are correct, of course. I found this even more true when our “small” hospital was absorbed into the larger system. 

    I was yelling at the screen by the time he got around to saying they spent all this money on the lawyers and could have just paid the employees. That proves they are just out to send a message. I tell you, I enjoyed the majority of my time in nursing, but I wouldn’t get into it today as it is currently configured, especially not in the hospital. 

    • #17
  18. TheRightNurse Member
    TheRightNurse
    @TheRightNurse

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Wow. It would have been nice for them to give notice, but Theta can’t demand they wait until replacements are found. It’s called accountability: if you make unethical demands of your employees, they are allowed to leave. Consequences.

    Apparently, they are not allowed to leave. Or at least, they can leave, but they are not then allowed to work elsewhere.

    This is a human rights violation of the first order.

    It really is.  If you think nurses aren’t aware of this and aren’t raising hell (on TikTok and various other platforms, anyway), you’d be very, very wrong.

    Nurses are now walking away from healthcare.  They’re not even waiting for the pandemic to end anymore.  They’re just leaving.  After injunctions like this, many will just never come back.

    Feb. 1st is the day of reckoning in CA.  Vaccine mandates and booster mandates will be in full effect at that time with minimal exemption allowed.  At that point, I’m not sure what kind of workforce will be left.  I know at least 4 nurses (on my floor alone) that are planning on 1) going out on medical leave and hoping it blows over or 2) getting “suspended” (or fired, no one really knows what will happen).  With a court mandate like this, it takes little imagination to envision enforced vaccination of healthcare workers so that they can work.  Lest they have unsafe hospitals due to all of the people being “suspended” or prevented from working because of the mandates.

    And we hear the calls for universal healthcare getting louder.

    As if there will be people willing to volunteer for slavery.

    • #18
  19. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    TheRightNurse (View Comment):
    And we hear the calls for universal healthcare getting louder.

    I would hope that the last two years would be a wake-up call, showing just how disastrous things would be if the government ran healthcare.

    But I never underestimate the ability of the ruling class to propagandize for their chosen policies, and the public to swallow the propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

    • #19
  20. DonG (CAGW is a hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a hoax)
    @DonG

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):
    I would hope that the last two years would be a wake-up call, showing just how disastrous things would be if the government ran healthcare.

    It is not clear if the government runs the healthcare industry or if the healthcare industry runs government.  Either way, more consolidation would be bad.

    • #20
  21. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    I have a history with both of those hospital systems.

    I was interested in moving to the Fox Valley and interviewed with both Theda Clark and St Elizabeth/ Oshkosh Medical Center. I elected to take the offer  to work at Theda Clark in Neenah and resigned my position in California, and made arrangements to move my family.   Less then a month before the move I got a call from the ER director who recruited me, who told me that almost all the physicians I had met were being let go by Theda Clark.  No one from the hospital contacted me to tell me what was going on.  When I called they tried to gaslight me about what was going on and wouldn’t give me a straight answer. I was in no mood to move my family across the country from California into some kind of chaotic mess, so I contacted the people at St E’s and asked if they still wanted me.  They offered me a contract immediately.   I sent a letter to Theda Clark telling them of my decision and I wouldn’t be coming.  They responded by threatening me with legal action.  I told them to bring it on because I had them record lying to me about the situation at their hospital.

    I worked at Mercy and St E’s for a decade ( until we lost our contract, thats another story.)

    I hope TC gets slammed by the judge.  Slavery is illegal.

    • #21
  22. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    TheRightNurse (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Wow. It would have been nice for them to give notice, but Theta can’t demand they wait until replacements are found. It’s called accountability: if you make unethical demands of your employees, they are allowed to leave. Consequences.

    Apparently, they are not allowed to leave. Or at least, they can leave, but they are not then allowed to work elsewhere.

    This is a human rights violation of the first order.

    It really is. If you think nurses aren’t aware of this and aren’t raising hell (on TikTok and various other platforms, anyway), you’d be very, very wrong.

    Nurses are now walking away from healthcare. They’re not even waiting for the pandemic to end anymore. They’re just leaving. After injunctions like this, many will just never come back.

    Feb. 1st is the day of reckoning in CA. Vaccine mandates and booster mandates will be in full effect at that time with minimal exemption allowed. At that point, I’m not sure what kind of workforce will be left. I know at least 4 nurses (on my floor alone) that are planning on 1) going out on medical leave and hoping it blows over or 2) getting “suspended” (or fired, no one really knows what will happen). With a court mandate like this, it takes little imagination to envision enforced vaccination of healthcare workers so that they can work. Lest they have unsafe hospitals due to all of the people being “suspended” or prevented from working because of the mandates.

    And we hear the calls for universal healthcare getting louder.

    As if there will be people willing to volunteer for slavery.

    The calls do work because you have the skills. Seems to be the way we are headed. 

    • #22
  23. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Kozak (View Comment):

    I have a history with both of those hospital systems.

    I was interested in moving to the Fox Valley and interviewed with both Theda clark and St Elizabeth/ Oshkosh Medical Center. I elected to take the offer to work at Theda Clark in Neenah and resigned my position in California, and made arrangements to move my family. Less then a month before the move I got a call from the ER director who recruited me, who told me that almost all the physicians I had met were being let go by Theda Clark. No one from the hospital contacted me to tell me what was going on. When I called they tried to gaslight me about what was going on and wouldn’t give me a straight answer. I was in no mood to move my family across the country from California into some kind of chaotic mess, so I contacted the people at St E’s and asked if they still wanted me. They offered me a contract immediately. I sent a letter to Theda Clark telling them of my decision and I wouldn’t be coming. They responded by threatening me with legal action. I told them to bring it on because I had them record lying to me about the situation at their hospital.

    I worked at Mercy and St E’s for a decade ( until we lost our contract, thats another story.)

    I hope TC gets slammed by the judge. Slavery is illegal.

    Interesting that they have history of this sort of thing. I’d love to see the Feds slam them. 

    The irony is, hospitals are sooooo regulated. It would be easy for a regulator to say “Hey, that threatens patients, we are closing you down.”

    • #23
  24. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Another way to view it, a judge has temporarily (up to 90 days) prevented a huge healthcare company from hiring away an entire emergency care department from some small town provider. Walmart does stuff like that to mom-and-pop stores in small towns all over America.

    Uh no.

    If anything Theda Care is the bully in the area.

    The two systems are evenly matched, with TC having Theda Clark and Appleton Medical Center, and Ascension having St Elizabeths and Oshkosh Medical Center. 

    All TC had to do was match the offer. Instead as is their tendency they ran to the lawyers. Now no one in the Fox Valley will get the care.  

    • #24
  25. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Another way to view it, a judge has temporarily (up to 90 days) prevented a huge healthcare company from hiring away an entire emergency care department from some small town provider. Walmart does stuff like that to mom-and-pop stores in small towns all over America.

    Forbidding people to take a job by court order is wrong. I cannot believe you think there is any upside here. 

    • #25
  26. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Don’t they have a union?

    • #26
  27. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Don’t they have a union?

    Get real. Does one need a union to have human rights?

    • #27
  28. Blondie Thatcher
    Blondie
    @Blondie

    Kozak (View Comment):

    I have a history with both of those hospital systems.

    I was interested in moving to the Fox Valley and interviewed with both Theda Clark and St Elizabeth/ Oshkosh Medical Center. I elected to take the offer to work at Theda Clark in Neenah and resigned my position in California, and made arrangements to move my family. Less then a month before the move I got a call from the ER director who recruited me, who told me that almost all the physicians I had met were being let go by Theda Clark. No one from the hospital contacted me to tell me what was going on. When I called they tried to gaslight me about what was going on and wouldn’t give me a straight answer. I was in no mood to move my family across the country from California into some kind of chaotic mess, so I contacted the people at St E’s and asked if they still wanted me. They offered me a contract immediately. I sent a letter to Theda Clark telling them of my decision and I wouldn’t be coming. They responded by threatening me with legal action. I told them to bring it on because I had them record lying to me about the situation at their hospital.

    I worked at Mercy and St E’s for a decade ( until we lost our contract, thats another story.)

    I hope TC gets slammed by the judge. Slavery is illegal.

    This is the kind of inside stuff I was talking about. There is always something else nobody will know unless they are on the inside. Wonder what else they have done or tried that hasn’t gotten out to the public. 

    • #28
  29. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Don’t they have a union?

    It is an “At Will” employment. That means no contracts etc. 

    • #29
  30. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    I will update the story if I see anything more 

    • #30
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