Vaccine? No, Not Really.

 

The jab is a vaccine, or at least that’s what it’s called, but it really isn’t.  It is not a vaccine as vaccines were once understood.  It is an invasive genetic delivery therapy and consists of an injected mixture containing nanocarbon fibers, lipids, and strands of mRNA designed specifically to reprogram a cell’s DNA, its genes, and its purpose.  Instead of say, assembling within a scaffold of proteins designed to contract on command (example: muscle cell), the former muscle cell is reprogrammed by the mRNA to give up its duties and madly make COVID spike proteins until it burns out.

mRNA must work quickly or it breaks down.  It cannot enter a cell on its own.  Enter dense lipids, to protect the mRNA, and carbon nanoparticles to penetrate cell walls and allow the mRNA to enter a cell.  The manufactured spike proteins leak out of the now compromised cell and drift though the circulatory and lymphatic systems, until they locate an ACE2 receptor on the surface of cell and bind with it.  In theory, this would close a pathway for a potential COVID cell infection.  In addition, these circulating spike proteins will eventually be recognized by your immune system as invasive and will prompt an antibody response to neutralize them.  These same antibodies would respond to actual proteins on a COVID spike, effectively neutralizing any COVID viruses post-exposure.

Historically, vaccines for viral infections have been incredibly effective.  Small pox?  Eradicated.  Polio?  Virtually eliminated.  Chickenpox, the mumps, the measles, rubella, whooping cough?  Gone.  In the public mind, viral vaccinations are miraculous.  So, when this new mRNA technology was elevated to “vaccine” status, the CDC and NIH effectively tapped into the public’s vaccine goodwill.  But this new “vaccine” wasn’t a vaccine at all.  It was gene therapy, both unproven and unapproved.  The definition change is an old-fashioned bait and switch.

Redefining vaccines to include invasive mRNA genetic therapy also served another, more nefarious purpose.  It allowed the manufacturers to hide behind the legal liability shield provided generally to producers of vaccines.  Had the therapy been relegated to therapeutic status, producers would have to defend themselves against civil claims for possible harmful, even fatal, side effects.  And they might lose.

I submit, dear readers, that had the public known these things, many more folks would have been reluctant to participate in mass injection.  Further, if they knew that cell lines harvested from aborted fetuses were needed to develop the tests for the efficacy and safety of this therapy, even more people would have balked.

Further, the NIH, CDC, and vaccine manufacturers obviously did not know whether these new “vaccines” would be effective.  Authorizations were “emergency”.  They hoped they would be effective and if wishing were real, they all would have been, but wishing is never a good reason to place a bet.  These new vaccines have now proven to be largely ineffective.  They are not lasting, hence require constant boosters.  They do not prevent infection, hence breakthrough cases are now the norm.  They do not staunch infectiousness as those who get COVID, even if vaxed, boosted and asymptomatic, still shed virus and infect others.  They are not durable as new strains of the virus, like Omicron, are not deterred by the vaccines.  The only thing we know for certain: breakthrough cases are less mortal than infections in the unvaxed.  However, as with all respiratory viruses, evolved variants are also proving to be less harmful and more virulent than their predecessors

It is clear now that mRNA so-called vaccines seem to do only one thing; they reduce the severity of a COVID 19 infection.  There is a medical term for a treatment that reduces the severity of a viral infection: a therapeutic.  Government agencies have oversold this mRNA technology at every turn, even elevating it to “vaccine” status.  This was an abuse of language for political ends, largely benefitting the virus purveyors and their investors.  It’s time this mRNA therapy is purged from the definition of what constitutes a vaccine.  It is an invasive gene therapy.  At best, mRNA therapy has proven to be only therapeutic, a treatment whose benefits are limited and may not outweigh the risks for many easily discernable segments of the population.  The vaccine liability shield should not apply to these therapies.  Perhaps it is time to alert the trial lawyers.  The immense gains accumulated by the hucksters pushing this stuff have proven illegitimate.  And the therapy itself may well prove harmful to many while those harmed have had no good recourse.

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  1. David Foster Member
    David Foster
    @DavidFoster

    Covid deaths per 100,000 as a function of vax status, in Switzerland, US, Chile, and UK:

    https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination

    • #31
  2. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    The vehicle in my garage is not a passenger automobile.  Traditionally, passenger automobiles have carburetors, but this does not have a carburetor. It has fuel injection. “Injection” is a scary word.  Would you want to be injected? Of course not. Do you even want to be in a place where injections are being performed? Doubly no. This vehicle is a passenger automobile? No, not really.

    • #32
  3. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The vehicle in my garage is not a passenger automobile. Traditionally, passenger automobiles have carburetors, but this does not have a carburetor. It has fuel injection. “Injection” is a scary word. Would you want to be injected? Of course not. Do you even want to be in a place where injections are being performed? Doubly no. This vehicle is a passenger automobile? No, not really.

    Are you . . . are you feeling okay?

    • #33
  4. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The vehicle in my garage is not a passenger automobile. Traditionally, passenger automobiles have carburetors, but this does not have a carburetor. It has fuel injection. “Injection” is a scary word. Would you want to be injected? Of course not. Do you even want to be in a place where injections are being performed? Doubly no. This vehicle is a passenger automobile? No, not really.

    Are you . . . are you feeling okay?

    No, it makes me feel ill when an OP writer doesn’t bother to do a google search to find out about the history of vaccines and types of vaccines, and rewrites vaccine history the same way Soviet airbrush artists removed Nikolay Ivanovich Yeshov from a photo showing him and Stalin walking together.

    • #34
  5. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The vehicle in my garage is not a passenger automobile. Traditionally, passenger automobiles have carburetors, but this does not have a carburetor. It has fuel injection. “Injection” is a scary word. Would you want to be injected? Of course not. Do you even want to be in a place where injections are being performed? Doubly no. This vehicle is a passenger automobile? No, not really.

    Are you . . . are you feeling okay?

    No, it makes me feel ill when an OP writer doesn’t bother to do a google search to find out about the history of vaccines and types of vaccines, and rewrites vaccine history the same way Soviet airbrush artists removed Nikolay Ivanovich Yeshov from a photo showing him and Stalin walking together.

    It comes from the fact we were sold the idea that mRNA shots were the equivalent of a polio vaccine; we would not get sick and we wouldn’t make anybody else sick. The gap between that claim (made repeatedly) and reality is what drives this.

    • #35
  6. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The vehicle in my garage is not a passenger automobile. Traditionally, passenger automobiles have carburetors, but this does not have a carburetor. It has fuel injection. “Injection” is a scary word. Would you want to be injected? Of course not. Do you even want to be in a place where injections are being performed? Doubly no. This vehicle is a passenger automobile? No, not really.

    Are you . . . are you feeling okay?

    No, it makes me feel ill when an OP writer doesn’t bother to do a google search to find out about the history of vaccines and types of vaccines, and rewrites vaccine history the same way Soviet airbrush artists removed Nikolay Ivanovich Yeshov from a photo showing him and Stalin walking together.

    It comes from the fact we were sold the idea that mRNA shots were the equivalent of a polio vaccine; we would not get sick and we wouldn’t make anybody else sick. The gap between that claim (made repeatedly) and reality is what drives this.

    If you were sold that idea you have my sympathies, but you ought to buy your ideas from more reputable vendors. 

    • #36
  7. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The vehicle in my garage is not a passenger automobile. Traditionally, passenger automobiles have carburetors, but this does not have a carburetor. It has fuel injection. “Injection” is a scary word. Would you want to be injected? Of course not. Do you even want to be in a place where injections are being performed? Doubly no. This vehicle is a passenger automobile? No, not really.

    Are you . . . are you feeling okay?

    No, it makes me feel ill when an OP writer doesn’t bother to do a google search to find out about the history of vaccines and types of vaccines, and rewrites vaccine history the same way Soviet airbrush artists removed Nikolay Ivanovich Yeshov from a photo showing him and Stalin walking together.

    Why would you use Google? Google was Stalin’s favorite web search.

    • #37
  8. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The vehicle in my garage is not a passenger automobile. Traditionally, passenger automobiles have carburetors, but this does not have a carburetor. It has fuel injection. “Injection” is a scary word. Would you want to be injected? Of course not. Do you even want to be in a place where injections are being performed? Doubly no. This vehicle is a passenger automobile? No, not really.

    Are you . . . are you feeling okay?

    No, it makes me feel ill when an OP writer doesn’t bother to do a google search to find out about the history of vaccines and types of vaccines, and rewrites vaccine history the same way Soviet airbrush artists removed Nikolay Ivanovich Yeshov from a photo showing him and Stalin walking together.

    This is a perfect example the arrogance and ignorance of the anti-jab folks. If you have a an issue with the OP, give a constructive rebuttal. We’re 2 years into this and many of us are tired of lies and name calling and arrogant scoffing. I honestly don’t know the truth but I know that you’ve given me lots of reasons to not trust your judgment. There are issues with these “vaccines”. The issues are real and legitimate questions are being asked only to be met with threats, reduce and arrogance. 

    • #38
  9. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    It comes from the fact we were sold the idea that mRNA shots were the equivalent of a polio vaccine; we would not get sick and we wouldn’t make anybody else sick. The gap between that claim (made repeatedly) and reality is what drives this.

    If you were sold that idea you have my sympathies, but you ought to buy your ideas from more reputable vendors.

    Bro, really? All the “experts” told us they were 100% effective against the ’rona, and if you got the jab, you wouldn’t get it or transmit it. We know that wasn’t true now, But you keep acting as if you have always had some kind of special foreknowledge, and anyone who believed it a year ago when the experts told us the vaccines would keep you from getting COVID is some idiot far beneath you.

    • #39
  10. EB Thatcher
    EB
    @EB

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):
    Bro, really? All the “experts” told us they were 100% effective against the ’rona, and if you got the jab, you wouldn’t get it or transmit it.

    No. They never said it was more than 95%.  They never said you wouldn’t get the virus.  And, as many people have complained, they wanted people to continue to wear masks.

    Now I don’t think masks help, but if “they” wanted you to wear masks, it sorta sounds like they thought you could pass it on.

     

    • #40
  11. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    It comes from the fact we were sold the idea that mRNA shots were the equivalent of a polio vaccine; we would not get sick and we wouldn’t make anybody else sick. The gap between that claim (made repeatedly) and reality is what drives this.

    If you were sold that idea you have my sympathies, but you ought to buy your ideas from more reputable vendors.

    Bro, really? All the “experts” told us they were 100% effective against the ’rona, and if you got the jab, you wouldn’t get it or transmit it. We know that wasn’t true now, But you keep acting as if you have always had some kind of special foreknowledge, and anyone who believed it a year ago when the experts told us the vaccines would keep you from getting COVID is some idiot far beneath you.

    That is simply not true. All the “experts” told us no such thing. And it wasn’t just the experts.  It was common knowledge that the vaccines were not 100% effective. You would have to have looked hard to find someone who thought they were. (I personally don’t know of any person, expert or otherwise, who thought they were.)  Why do you think that early last year people were discussing which vaccine they should get: Pfizer, Moderna, or Johnson & Johnson?  It was because they were weighing the possibility of side effects against the efficacy of the vaccines as reported from the phase 3 trials. Nobody expected 100%.

    You also had naysayers questioning how long the vaccines would be effective, and wondering if boosters would be required.  Not just naysayers, but the “experts.”  We had clues, but we had no way of being sure. 

    Those who tell you that all the experts said these vaccines were 100% effective are selling you a bill of goods, and you should try to get your money back. 

    • #41
  12. Doug Kimball Thatcher
    Doug Kimball
    @DougKimball

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The vehicle in my garage is not a passenger automobile. Traditionally, passenger automobiles have carburetors, but this does not have a carburetor. It has fuel injection. “Injection” is a scary word. Would you want to be injected? Of course not. Do you even want to be in a place where injections are being performed? Doubly no. This vehicle is a passenger automobile? No, not really.

    Are you . . . are you feeling okay?

    No, it makes me feel ill when an OP writer doesn’t bother to do a google search to find out about the history of vaccines and types of vaccines, and rewrites vaccine history the same way Soviet airbrush artists removed Nikolay Ivanovich Yeshov from a photo showing him and Stalin walking together.

    Please explain where I misrepresent my case.  Was the definition of a vaccine changed or was it not?  I looked it up.  It changed.  The mRNA “vaccine” would not have been considered a vaccine at the time the shield law was passed.  

    • #42
  13. Doug Kimball Thatcher
    Doug Kimball
    @DougKimball

    EB (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):
    Bro, really? All the “experts” told us they were 100% effective against the ’rona, and if you got the jab, you wouldn’t get it or transmit it.

    No. They never said it was more than 95%. They never said you wouldn’t get the virus. And, as many people have complained, they wanted people to continue to wear masks.

    Now I don’t think masks help, but if “they” wanted you to wear masks, it sorta sounds like they thought you could pass it on.

     

    And we don’t know exactly how they came up with the 95%.  It was certainly not an observed effectiveness and turned out to be a gross exaggeration.  Yet, Moderna and Pfizer profited, printing money with no downside even though the claims turned out to be almost completely wrong.  And as for vaccine side effects, the data is obscure, even questionable.  I think we have every reason to question all of this.

     

    • #43
  14. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The vehicle in my garage is not a passenger automobile. Traditionally, passenger automobiles have carburetors, but this does not have a carburetor. It has fuel injection. “Injection” is a scary word. Would you want to be injected? Of course not. Do you even want to be in a place where injections are being performed? Doubly no. This vehicle is a passenger automobile? No, not really.

    Are you . . . are you feeling okay?

    No, it makes me feel ill when an OP writer doesn’t bother to do a google search to find out about the history of vaccines and types of vaccines, and rewrites vaccine history the same way Soviet airbrush artists removed Nikolay Ivanovich Yeshov from a photo showing him and Stalin walking together.

    Please explain where I misrepresent my case. Was the definition of a vaccine changed or was it not? I looked it up. It changed. The mRNA “vaccine” would not have been considered a vaccine at the time the shield law was passed.

    I don’t know when the shield law was passed.

    Here is a list of types of vaccines, including subunit vaccines, that was prepared by NIH and last updated in July 2019, i.e. before covid.  https://www.niaid.nih.gov/research/vaccine-types .

    Here is a 2012 “vaccine fact book” from the WHO that has a de-facto vaccine definition right on the first page:  http://www.phrma-jp.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/old/library/vaccine-factbook_e/1_Basic_Concept_of_Vaccination.pdf There are a lot of problems with the WHO, but it would be strange to say that their working definition of “vaccine” is one of them.

    People have been working on subunit vaccines since at least the early 2000s.  The mRNA vaccines are a type of subunit vaccine that is different in that it works via an injection of the RNA that provides instructions for making the “subunit,” but just because it uses a new technology to accomplish the same thing as traditional vaccines, that doesn’t make it something other than a vaccine any more than the latest technology in cars or computers makes them something other than cars or computers.  

     

     

    • #44
  15. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    EB (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):
    Bro, really? All the “experts” told us they were 100% effective against the ’rona, and if you got the jab, you wouldn’t get it or transmit it.

    No. They never said it was more than 95%. They never said you wouldn’t get the virus. And, as many people have complained, they wanted people to continue to wear masks.

    No, this is not true. Saint Fauci himself said they were 100% effective. China Joe said if you take the jab, you won’t get COVID. I know people have short memories, but this is what they told us when the vaccines first came out, and now they’re not only rewriting history, but they’re rewriting your brains to make you forget they said it. 

    Now, they quickly backed off that guarantee, but that was the original narrative they used to push everyone into taking the damned things: that we could go back to normal and stop wearing masks. And yes, it wasn’t long before they told us to start wearing masks again, which confused the hell out of everyone and made a lot of people angry.

    I’m looking for those news clips of Fauci lying about the vaccines (I’ve provided them for Ret before) but they appear to have been scrubbed from YouTube.

     

    • #45
  16. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    That is simply not true. All the “experts” told us no such thing. And it wasn’t just the experts.  It was common knowledge that the vaccines were not 100% effective. You would have to have looked hard to find someone who thought they were. (I personally don’t know of any person, expert or otherwise, who thought they were.)

    Yes you do. Fauci said it. Good grief. Short memories here.

    Those who tell you that all the experts said these vaccines were 100% effective are selling you a bill of goods, and you should try to get your money back.

    Hey, I don’t want money. I just want lyin’ Fauci’s head on a pike.

    • #46
  17. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    It’s amazing how divisive COVID and the ancillary issues (vaccines) are even among people who agree on 70% of the issues. I don’t expect this conversation will make any more headway in mutual understanding than the previous twenty. 

    However, this post is using fearful and loaded language with many inaccuracies. The mRNA vaccines are not “gene therapy” — they’re immunotherapy, which has been in development and has been used successfully for people like my sister-in-law to treat melanoma.  If you wanted gene therapy which actually modified your DNA, you’d have to use CRISPR technology, which, as far as I’m aware hasn’t been widely used on humans yet, if at all.

    Also, this:

    Doug Kimball: Chickenpox, the mumps, the measles, rubella, whooping cough?  Gone.

    is flat out wrong. There are cases of measles in the US every year (usually brought in from other less vaccinated countries, it’s true) and there was even an official outbreak a few years ago. Again, probably due to the MMR-causes-autism-anti-vax hysteria, which has been thoroughly debunked and the promulgator discredited. Whooping cough is always around as well. My kids’ pediatrician told us he has to be vaccinated for it every year, as his body doesn’t maintain immunity and he’s always re-exposed in his line of work. You might even call it an annual “booster.”

    I thought conservatives were always skeptical of government promises to “shutdown” the virus, for example. And I thought we understood that there’s no such thing as a free lunch (all vaccines will have adverse effects in some people). I didn’t take the vaccine because I thought it 100% guaranteed I wouldn’t get COVID. I (and the vast majority of my family, including many medical professionals) took it to try to keep from being hospitalized. But, being conservative, we strongly oppose mandates and othering of people who choose not to be vaccinated. But, now I’m just repeating myself. Again.

    If the point is the government lied, well, color me unsurprised and unimpressed. Only “liberals” should be shocked! But they won’t be because government is their god and can do no wrong. It must be Trump’s fault. 

    • #47
  18. Headedwest Coolidge
    Headedwest
    @Headedwest

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    That is simply not true. All the “experts” told us no such thing. And it wasn’t just the experts. It was common knowledge that the vaccines were not 100% effective. You would have to have looked hard to find someone who thought they were. (I personally don’t know of any person, expert or otherwise, who thought they were.)

    Yes you do. Fauci said it. Good grief. Short memories here.

    Those who tell you that all the experts said these vaccines were 100% effective are selling you a bill of goods, and you should try to get your money back.

    Hey, I don’t want money. I just want lyin’ Fauci’s head on a pike.

    I saw this a few days ago:

    • #48
  19. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    If the point is the government lied, well, color me unsurprised and unimpressed. Only “liberals” should be shocked! But they won’t be because government is their god and can do no wrong. It must be Trump’s fault. 

    I don’t think shocked is the right word to describe the views of those of us who are on the negative side of this vaccine issue, if I may refer to it that way. I know exactly where I stand on it and I don’t need to refer to what somebody said some time in the past two years. Biden’s mandate coupled with the latest facts describing how poorly the vaccines perform seals my confirmation of an almost complete lack of trust in government, particularly federal. Instead of vaccine, I would label it a prophylactic therapeutic in that it may reduce the severity when one is infected with the virus. I do think that is very different from the original description delivered to the people.

    • #49
  20. Doug Kimball Thatcher
    Doug Kimball
    @DougKimball

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    It’s amazing how divisive COVID and the ancillary issues (vaccines) are even among people who agree on 70% of the issues. I don’t expect this conversation will make any more headway in mutual understanding than the previous twenty.

    However, this post is using fearful and loaded language with many inaccuracies. The mRNA vaccines are not “gene therapy” — they’re immunotherapy, which has been in development and has been used successfully for people like my sister-in-law to treat melanoma. If you wanted gene therapy which actually modified your DNA, you’d have to use CRISPR technology, which, as far as I’m aware hasn’t been widely used on humans yet, if at all.

    Also, this:

    Doug Kimball: Chickenpox, the mumps, the measles, rubella, whooping cough? Gone.

    is flat out wrong. There are cases of measles in the US every year (usually brought in from other less vaccinated countries, it’s true) and there was even an official outbreak a few years ago. Again, probably due to the MMR-causes-autism-anti-vax hysteria, which has been thoroughly debunked and the promulgator discredited. Whooping cough is always around as well. My kids’ pediatrician told us he has to be vaccinated for it every year, as his body doesn’t maintain immunity and he’s always re-exposed in his line of work. You might even call it an annual “booster.”

    I thought conservatives were always skeptical of government promises to “shutdown” the virus, for example. And I thought we understood that there’s no such thing as a free lunch (all vaccines will have adverse effects in some people). I didn’t take the vaccine because I thought it 100% guaranteed I wouldn’t get COVID. I (and the vast majority of my family, including many medical professionals) took it to try to keep from being hospitalized. But, being conservative, we strongly oppose mandates and othering of people who choose not to be vaccinated. But, now I’m just repeating myself. Again.

    If the point is the government lied, well, color me unsurprised and unimpressed. Only “liberals” should be shocked! But they won’t be because government is their god and can do no wrong. It must be Trump’s fault.

    I will admit that I’m not an expert here, but mRNA is genetic material, is it not?  It is being used to reprogram cells, is it not?  This might not meet the idea of gene therapy as alteration of a genome to alter some problem inherited trait or trisomy, but it does introduce foreign genetic material into a cell to alter it’s function.  So what would you call it?   And as far as other customary vaccines go, my comments were not meant to suggest that they were perfect, just that they worked and were trusted when used correctly.  There can always be outbreaks among the unvaccinated and some vaccines work better than others.  Then again, the mumps, measles, rubella, etc. are not Polio or Smallpox.  Those vaccines have proven very effective, even truly miraculous

    • #50
  21. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Doug Kimball (View Comment):
    Now that the vaccines have turned out to be a bust, I want to sue for breech of implied warrantee, fitness for a particular purpose!

    Absolutely.

    It’s not worth getting the jab just to sue over the jab.

    But it’s worth suing over the inoculation to stop the forced inoculations.

    • #51
  22. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The vehicle in my garage is not a passenger automobile. Traditionally, passenger automobiles have carburetors, but this does not have a carburetor. It has fuel injection. “Injection” is a scary word. Would you want to be injected? Of course not. Do you even want to be in a place where injections are being performed? Doubly no. This vehicle is a passenger automobile? No, not really.

    Are you . . . are you feeling okay?

    No, it makes me feel ill when an OP writer doesn’t bother to do a google search to find out about the history of vaccines and types of vaccines, and rewrites vaccine history the same way Soviet airbrush artists removed Nikolay Ivanovich Yeshov from a photo showing him and Stalin walking together.

    It comes from the fact we were sold the idea that mRNA shots were the equivalent of a polio vaccine; we would not get sick and we wouldn’t make anybody else sick. The gap between that claim (made repeatedly) and reality is what drives this.

    Yeeeess!

    • #52
  23. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Headedwest (View Comment):

    It comes from the fact we were sold the idea that mRNA shots were the equivalent of a polio vaccine; we would not get sick and we wouldn’t make anybody else sick. The gap between that claim (made repeatedly) and reality is what drives this.

    If you were sold that idea you have my sympathies, but you ought to buy your ideas from more reputable vendors.

    Bro, really? All the “experts” told us they were 100% effective against the ’rona, and if you got the jab, you wouldn’t get it or transmit it. We know that wasn’t true now, But you keep acting as if you have always had some kind of special foreknowledge, and anyone who believed it a year ago when the experts told us the vaccines would keep you from getting COVID is some idiot far beneath you.

    Well, to be fair, they said 96-98% effective against the coof.

    • #53
  24. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    EB (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):
    Bro, really? All the “experts” told us they were 100% effective against the ’rona, and if you got the jab, you wouldn’t get it or transmit it.

    No. They never said it was more than 95%. They never said you wouldn’t get the virus. And, as many people have complained, they wanted people to continue to wear masks.

    Now I don’t think masks help, but if “they” wanted you to wear masks, it sorta sounds like they thought you could pass it on.

     

    No, Facui said that one vaccine was at least 96% effective.  He parsed his words and misdirected from the truth, but he said 96%.

    • #54
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    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    It’s amazing how divisive COVID and the ancillary issues (vaccines) are even among people who agree on 70% of the issues. I don’t expect this conversation will make any more headway in mutual understanding than the previous twenty.

    However, this post is using fearful and loaded language with many inaccuracies. The mRNA vaccines are not “gene therapy” — they’re immunotherapy, which has been in development and has been used successfully for people like my sister-in-law to treat melanoma. If you wanted gene therapy which actually modified your DNA, you’d have to use CRISPR technology, which, as far as I’m aware hasn’t been widely used on humans yet, if at all.

    Also, this:

    Doug Kimball: Chickenpox, the mumps, the measles, rubella, whooping cough? Gone.

    is flat out wrong. There are cases of measles in the US every year (usually brought in from other less vaccinated countries, it’s true) and there was even an official outbreak a few years ago. Again, probably due to the MMR-causes-autism-anti-vax hysteria, which has been thoroughly debunked and the promulgator discredited. Whooping cough is always around as well. My kids’ pediatrician told us he has to be vaccinated for it every year, as his body doesn’t maintain immunity and he’s always re-exposed in his line of work. You might even call it an annual “booster.”

    I thought conservatives were always skeptical of government promises to “shutdown” the virus, for example. And I thought we understood that there’s no such thing as a free lunch (all vaccines will have adverse effects in some people). I didn’t take the vaccine because I thought it 100% guaranteed I wouldn’t get COVID. I (and the vast majority of my family, including many medical professionals) took it to try to keep from being hospitalized. But, being conservative, we strongly oppose mandates and othering of people who choose not to be vaccinated. But, now I’m just repeating myself. Again.

    If the point is the government lied, well, color me unsurprised and unimpressed. Only “liberals” should be shocked! But they won’t be because government is their god and can do no wrong. It must be Trump’s fault.

    Covid and the vaccines are pivotal to far worse things.  That’s why they are putting people in concentration/ quarantine camps for non-compliance in one country, and going door to door asking for papers of vaccine compliance in more countries.

    • #55
  26. The Reticulator Member
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    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    That is simply not true. All the “experts” told us no such thing. And it wasn’t just the experts. It was common knowledge that the vaccines were not 100% effective. You would have to have looked hard to find someone who thought they were. (I personally don’t know of any person, expert or otherwise, who thought they were.)

    Yes you do. Fauci said it. Good grief. Short memories here.

    I haven’t forgotten that. But it came later, when he was trying to get a mandate. And Fauci is not “all the experts.”  He’s just one, who has been corrupted by his government job. And we don’t know if he put any caveats on his statement, because we saw just a snippet. But that’s what happens when people politicize medical care–they get locked into a position and say foolish or dishonest things. We’re not sure which in this case. 

    Those who tell you that all the experts said these vaccines were 100% effective are selling you a bill of goods, and you should try to get your money back.

    Hey, I don’t want money. I just want lyin’ Fauci’s head on a pike.

    There are some other liars whose heads you should want on a pike, too.

    • #56
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    Bob Thompson (View Comment):
    … the views of those of us who are on the negative side of this vaccine issue, if I may refer to it that way.

    I refer to the covid debate and between those who are pro-covid and anti-covid.  This may seem paradoxical or bone-headed, but all the debate really has to do with the “narrative”: there are those on the pro-covid side who say: Yes, of course the vaccines should not be mandated — but they pass this of as an unfortunate consequence of incompetence and aimed at ending the pandemic, or as not letting a crisis go to waste.  Unfortunately this is not about covid, and never was, but is about domination and world-wide compliance (the “world-wide” supposed “incompetence” actually shows coordination of action).  And those who consider and weigh and debate the minutia and the statistics (as if the data were pure) are ignoring the purpose of the pandemic in the first place.

    • #57
  28. The Reticulator Member
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    Doug Kimball (View Comment):
    I will admit that I’m not an expert here, but mRNA is genetic material, is it not?  It is being used to reprogram cells, is it not? 

    In a way you could say it’s being used to reprogram cells, but you have to use the broadest definition of “reprogramming cells” in order to say that, and it can be easily misunderstood.  It’s more like hijacking a tiny, teensy, minuscule number of your cells, using existing machinery in those cells to make spike proteins. It doesn’t alter your DNA, and it only happens in a bunch of your somatic cells (not your reproductive cells) which will be sacrificed to make spike proteins for your immune system to react against. You have lots of somatic cells to spare for a cause like that.  And it’s nothing like the sacrifice of cells that sars-cov-2 will do, against your will. 

    This might not meet the idea of gene therapy as alteration of a genome to alter some problem inherited trait or trisomy, but it does introduce foreign genetic material into a cell to alter it’s function.  So what would you call it?   

    That’s a reasonable way to describe it, so long as you don’t imply that it’s something that happens to a significant number of your cells or that it affects cells that reproduce (whether somatic cells or reproductive cells).  

    And as far as other customary vaccines go, my comments were not meant to suggest that they were perfect, just that they worked and were trusted when used correctly.  There can always be outbreaks among the unvaccinated and some vaccines work better than others.  Then again, the mumps, measles, rubella, etc. are not Polio or Smallpox.  Those vaccines have proven very effective, even truly miraculous. 

    None of them are perfect, but polio and smallpox are close enough.  Whooping cough vaccines are pretty good, too, though not as good as those you listed.  The covid vaccine seems to be closer in efficacy to the flu vaccine, which is very imperfect, but it seems to be worth doing, and maybe is better at preventing “severe” flu than at preventing the initial infection.

    Respiratory diseases are tough to vaccinate against.  (Whooping cough is a respiratory disease, too, but it is caused by a bacterium, not a virus.)  My mental picture, subject to correction, is that these respiratory viruses attack the cells lining your nose and throat first, which stands to reason since those cells are more exposed to things flitting around in the air.  Your immune system has to have a really fast, well-targeted response to do anything about that. That means you need to have high levels of antibodies, and you need to have them in that part of your body where they’re going to be needed. (Getting a vaccine shot in your shoulder is not considered to be close to the action point.) 

    But whether with covid or influenza, it takes a while for the infection to get to your lungs, which is where things start to get serious.  And by that time, your T-cells and B-cells will, if already on the alert for the particular virus, will have produced more antibodies, and will also take a lot of other measures to protect you.  Both in the nose/throat and in the lungs it’s a violent race between your immune system and the virus.  But it’s sort of a turtle vs hare thing.  In your immune system, the antibodies are the hare, and the t-cells and b-cells are the turtle. Or another analogy: If the antibodies in your nose and throat can play the game the Greeks did against the invaders at Thermopolye, maybe that will help give the t-cells and b-cells enough time to prepare for the big war in your lungs. If you are not vaccinated or otherwise immunized, it takes a lot more time than that. Remember that when you are vaccinated, it takes about 10-12 days (or even the infamous 2 weeks) for the vaccine to cause your body to develop an immune response. When a person is infected, adding that 10-14 days on top of everything else can in some cases be too slow to stop the development of a serious disease. 

     

     

    • #58
  29. The Reticulator Member
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    Headedwest (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    That is simply not true. All the “experts” told us no such thing. And it wasn’t just the experts. It was common knowledge that the vaccines were not 100% effective. You would have to have looked hard to find someone who thought they were. (I personally don’t know of any person, expert or otherwise, who thought they were.)

    Yes you do. Fauci said it. Good grief. Short memories here.

    Those who tell you that all the experts said these vaccines were 100% effective are selling you a bill of goods, and you should try to get your money back.

    Hey, I don’t want money. I just want lyin’ Fauci’s head on a pike.

    I saw this a few days ago:

    I saw it, too. But I don’t know what it is or where it came from. 

    It made me think of this book, though:

    • #59
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    The Reticulator (View Comment):
    It’s more like hijacking a tiny, teensy, minuscule number of your cells,

    I’ve asked this before and not gotten an answer.  How many molecules of mRNA are in a half cc of Moderna vaccine.  I would guess in the hundred thousands. or millions, but I could be way off either way.  Each mRNA particle creates (depending on who you read) at least one spike, but I’ve read somewhere (I think on some pharmaceutical site) that the vaccine has been coded to optimize multiple spikes per mRNA molecule.

    This is teensy weensy miniscule compared to what particular effect?

    • #60
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