Senate Democrats Back Putin, Reject Cruz’s Nord Stream Sanctions Bill

 

This post’s title corrects the misleading headline on Roll Call, “Senate Democrats back Biden, reject Cruz’s Nord Stream sanctions bill.” To be perfectly clear, the Democrat(ic Socialists) have backed Moscow except for a brief interlude from Truman’s through LBJ’s presidency. The play-acting for the past five years was a cynical sham. The Democrats are green-lighting Putin taking control of at least Ukraine by force or threat of force, cynically pretending to support an after-the-fact set of sanctions not worth the paper or the global warming gasses emitted on the Senate floor.

See Power Line, “The Russian Bear, On the March” for an annotated summary of links. Directly, Sweden is very concerned about Putin’s larger intentions in the region, sending troops to a strategic island:

In an unusual move, Sweden deployed armoured combat vehicles and armed soldiers to patrol streets on the island of Gotland on Friday in response to increased “Russian activity” in the region, the military said.
Some 10 armoured combat vehicles and dozens of armed personnel could be seen patrolling the small port town of Visby on the strategically-located island.

The move came after three Russian landing ships sailed into the Baltic Sea through the Great Belt Strait in Denmark this week, and amid increased tensions between Russia and NATO.

[ . . . ]

Sweden, which has not been to war in two centuries, reintroduced mandatory military service in 2017 and reopened its garrison on Gotland in January 2018 amid concerns about Russian intentions in Europe. [emphasis added]

Of course, we are told that Russia is really the injured, threatened party. This narrative is not new, captured in the classic cartoon from the Winter War of 1939-40. That war started with a fake provocation created by Russian special forces against other Russian forces. It was justified by Stalin’s claim that Finland had been part of imperial Russia for about a century. Now we hear of a new false flag operation being planned by Putin, who longs to restore the empire Stalin ruled.

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  1. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    I don’t believe it’s been this bad since Ted Kennedy deliberately tried to undercut President Reagan with the Soviets. (Actually, it should have been classified as treason.)

    Now, it seems like most of the Democratic Party is taking a page from Kennedy’s playbook.

    • #1
  2. Hartmann von Aue Member
    Hartmann von Aue
    @HartmannvonAue

    Let’s all like the heck out this one so that we can all share it on Social Media. 

    • #2
  3. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    Let’s all like the heck out this one so that we can all share it on Social Media.

    Sweden doesn’t have a problem being invaded by middle eastetners, but does by Russians? 

    The Ukraine-Russia thing is overblown hyperventilation. People in Kiev aren’t acting as if they are ready for invasion. And Nato shouldn’t expand to Ukraine unless Russia also is allowedto join.  All risk, No reward, if Ukraine only. If European security is now the point of Nato, then Russia should be a member. Otherwise, it’s just another anti-Russian coalition. And that is insecurity.

    I have no problem with Nordstrom sanctions. They should never have been dropped. It’s a bargaining chip.

     

    • #3
  4. DonG (CAGW is a hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a hoax)
    @DonG

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I have no problem with Nordstrom sanctions. They should never have been dropped. It’s a bargaining chip.

    Sanctions are good for Texas (LNG exports) and good for Ukraine (they tax NG going through current pipelines).  Opening the pipeline gives Russia more leverage over Ukraine (they can cut off supply without affecting Germany). 

    That said, Biden is so corrupt and so compromised that we have to assume he will never act in the best interest of the USA.  I expect Russia to resolve the turmoil in the Russian-speaking part of eastern Ukraine the same way they did with Crimea.   I expect Biden to respond with yelling at clouds. 

     

    • #4
  5. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I have no problem with Nordstrom sanctions. They should never have been dropped. It’s a bargaining chip.

    Sanctions are good for Texas (LNG exports) and good for Ukraine (they tax NG going through current pipelines). Opening the pipeline gives Russia more leverage over Ukraine (they can cut off supply without affecting Germany).

    That said, Biden is so corrupt and so compromised that we have to assume he will never act in the best interest of the USA. I expect Russia to resolve the turmoil in the Russian-speaking part of eastern Ukraine the same way they did with Crimea. I expect Biden to respond with yelling at clouds.

     

    It isn’t only Biden. It’s the intelligence agencies themselves. What threat to the US does Russia taking the Donbass pose to the US? Yet they are jumping up and down about it. Meanwhile, covid has been the biggest threat to hit us and unforeseen . . . And lab leak and gain of function aren’t to be discussed. 

    The intelligence agencies and the poodle press pushing their propaganda are beneath contempt.

    • #5
  6. DonG (CAGW is a hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a hoax)
    @DonG

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s the intelligence agencies themselves. What threat to the US does Russia taking the Donbass pose to the US? Yet they are jumping up and down about it. Meanwhile, covid has been the biggest threat to hit us and unforeseen . . . And lab leak and gain of function aren’t to be discussed. 

    The intelligence agencies and the poodle press pushing their propaganda are beneath contempt.

    Do you remember that time that Bill Clinton flew to Moscow, gave a 20 minute speech, and collected a $500,000 check while Hillary was pushing through the take-over of US uranium supply by Russia?   All the Dems and IC went along with that.

    The CCP has literally been in bed with DNC leadership and the IC and press say nothing.  Contemptible indeed!

    • #6
  7. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s the intelligence agencies themselves. What threat to the US does Russia taking the Donbass pose to the US? Yet they are jumping up and down about it. Meanwhile, covid has been the biggest threat to hit us and unforeseen . . . And lab leak and gain of function aren’t to be discussed.

    The intelligence agencies and the poodle press pushing their propaganda are beneath contempt.

    Do you remember that time that Bill Clinton flew to Moscow, gave a 20 minute speech, and collected a $500,000 check while Hillary was pushing through the take-over of US uranium supply by Russia? All the Dems and IC went along with that.

    The CCP has literally been in bed with DNC leadership and the IC and press say nothing. Contemptible indeed!

    Yet nowhere on the radar is mitigation of the extreme threat to the US of an invasion of Taiwan discussed. Taiwan produces something like 80% of the world’s computer chips. If the Chinese do invade, what happens? Those plants in Taiwan will probably be destroyed rather than letting them fall into ChiCom hands. How devastating will that be?

    • #7
  8. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    I doubt anyone here is looking for war with Russia over Ukraine (or anything else). But when you signal weakness — and Joe Biden might as well have a big “LOSER” tattooed on his forehead — war is what you get. I think we’ll be lucky to only be in conflict with Russia and not with Russia and China simultaneously within the next 5 to 10 years. Maybe throw Iran in there for the trifecta. 

    You have to give the devil his due (which I mean literally in this case). The Russian collusion has been entirely on the part of the Democrats for years, yet they managed to smear Donald Trump with it. It’s always projection with progressives. I can’t think of an exception. They’re racists, sexists, haters, terrorists, authoritarians — name the charge they level at conservatives and it “magically” applies to them.

    • #8
  9. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Weakness begets war. TGotCH will have their say in the end. No society can proceed as e.g. the Swedes have and keep their nation.

    • #9
  10. Fritz Coolidge
    Fritz
    @Fritz

    I know the image is dated a few years back, but still, do the NATO defense ministries give Putin any pause? Asking for a friend.

    • #10
  11. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Fritz (View Comment):

    I know the image is dated a few years back, but still, do the NATO defense ministries give Putin any pause? Asking for a friend.

    But, but, but. . .they all have such lovely smiles!

    At least there aren’t any obvious transgenders in the group, which is more than you can say about the way the American military is headed.

    • #11
  12. DonG (CAGW is a hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a hoax)
    @DonG

    Hang On (View Comment):

    The CCP has literally been in bed with DNC leadership and the IC and press say nothing. Contemptible indeed!

    Yet nowhere on the radar is mitigation of the extreme threat to the US of an invasion of Taiwan discussed. Taiwan produces something like 80% of the world’s computer chips. If the Chinese do invade, what happens? Those plants in Taiwan will probably be destroyed rather than letting them fall into ChiCom hands. How devastating will that be?

    That would be very bad, but I do not think China will do a military invasion of Taiwan.  As much as the CCP has infiltrated the institutions of the USA, they are doing the same in Taiwan.  Money has been buying off politicians for 1000’s of years and the CCP has *lots* of money.

    • #12
  13. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk and
    @Misthiocracy

    The whole Nord Stream thing is tricky.  Aren’t sanctions on Russia essentially also sanctions on Germany?

    • #13
  14. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    The whole Nord Stream thing is tricky. Aren’t sanctions on Russia essentially also sanctions on Germany?

    Not really. They can buy it elsewhere. Now, if one assumes Germany is trying to gain at the expense of the West, then sure – it’s a counter if not a sanction. (I’d be ok with sanction in that reading anyway.)

    • #14
  15. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    Let’s all like the heck out this one so that we can all share it on Social Media.

    Sweden doesn’t have a problem being invaded by middle eastetners, but does by Russians?

    The Ukraine-Russia thing is overblown hyperventilation. People in Kiev aren’t acting as if they are ready for invasion. And Nato shouldn’t expand to Ukraine unless Russia also is allowedto join. All risk, No reward, if Ukraine only. If European security is now the point of Nato, then Russia should be a member. Otherwise, it’s just another anti-Russian coalition. And that is insecurity.

    I have no problem with Nordstrom sanctions. They should never have been dropped. It’s a bargaining chip.

     

    Hang On (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s the intelligence agencies themselves. What threat to the US does Russia taking the Donbass pose to the US? Yet they are jumping up and down about it. Meanwhile, covid has been the biggest threat to hit us and unforeseen . . . And lab leak and gain of function aren’t to be discussed.

    The intelligence agencies and the poodle press pushing their propaganda are beneath contempt.

    Do you remember that time that Bill Clinton flew to Moscow, gave a 20 minute speech, and collected a $500,000 check while Hillary was pushing through the take-over of US uranium supply by Russia? All the Dems and IC went along with that.

    The CCP has literally been in bed with DNC leadership and the IC and press say nothing. Contemptible indeed!

    Yet nowhere on the radar is mitigation of the extreme threat to the US of an invasion of Taiwan discussed. Taiwan produces something like 80% of the world’s computer chips. If the Chinese do invade, what happens? Those plants in Taiwan will probably be destroyed rather than letting them fall into ChiCom hands. How devastating will that be?

    I generally agree with you, Hang On, though I don’t personally care about sanctions regarding this Nord Stream pipeline.

    I don’t see much of a reason to be putting ourselves on Russia’s bad side right now.  We could use their help against China, if we can get it.  Trump seemed to understand this.

    People do seem to have a hard time accepting the idea that a powerful country like Russia gets to have a sphere of influence.  All countries want such a sphere of influence, for defensive purposes.  We have ours, called the Monroe Doctrine.  I don’t see any way out of these realities, until the Lord returns.

    • #15
  16. ToryWarWriter Thatcher
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I have no problem with Nordstrom sanctions. They should never have been dropped. It’s a bargaining chip.

    Sanctions are good for Texas (LNG exports) and good for Ukraine (they tax NG going through current pipelines). Opening the pipeline gives Russia more leverage over Ukraine (they can cut off supply without affecting Germany).

    That said, Biden is so corrupt and so compromised that we have to assume he will never act in the best interest of the USA. I expect Russia to resolve the turmoil in the Russian-speaking part of eastern Ukraine the same way they did with Crimea. I expect Biden to respond with yelling at clouds.

     

    You mean Germany will no longer face extortion from Ukraine and will get there natural gas directly from Russia at the agreed upon rates.

    Its is the Wests vital security interest to have Russia tied into Europe and away from China.

    The proposed sanctions only help China.  They are not within the strategic benefit of the West.  Ted Cruz who I like a lot is wrong here.  Its a lot of anti-Russian short sighted nonsense.  Putin is a direct response to such nonsense.  

    • #16
  17. Clifford A. Brown Contributor
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    Let’s all like the heck out this one so that we can all share it on Social Media.

    Sweden doesn’t have a problem being invaded by middle eastetners, but does by Russians?

    The Ukraine-Russia thing is overblown hyperventilation. People in Kiev aren’t acting as if they are ready for invasion. And Nato shouldn’t expand to Ukraine unless Russia also is allowedto join. All risk, No reward, if Ukraine only. If European security is now the point of Nato, then Russia should be a member. Otherwise, it’s just another anti-Russian coalition. And that is insecurity.

    I have no problem with Nordstrom sanctions. They should never have been dropped. It’s a bargaining chip.

     

    Hang On (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    It’s the intelligence agencies themselves. What threat to the US does Russia taking the Donbass pose to the US? Yet they are jumping up and down about it. Meanwhile, covid has been the biggest threat to hit us and unforeseen . . . And lab leak and gain of function aren’t to be discussed.

    The intelligence agencies and the poodle press pushing their propaganda are beneath contempt.

    Do you remember that time that Bill Clinton flew to Moscow, gave a 20 minute speech, and collected a $500,000 check while Hillary was pushing through the take-over of US uranium supply by Russia? All the Dems and IC went along with that.

    The CCP has literally been in bed with DNC leadership and the IC and press say nothing. Contemptible indeed!

    Yet nowhere on the radar is mitigation of the extreme threat to the US of an invasion of Taiwan discussed. Taiwan produces something like 80% of the world’s computer chips. If the Chinese do invade, what happens? Those plants in Taiwan will probably be destroyed rather than letting them fall into ChiCom hands. How devastating will that be?

    I generally agree with you, Hang On, though I don’t personally care about sanctions regarding this Nord Stream pipeline.

    I don’t see much of a reason to be putting ourselves on Russia’s bad side right now. We could use their help against China, if we can get it. Trump seemed to understand this.

    People do seem to have a hard time accepting the idea that a powerful country like Russia gets to have a sphere of influence. All countries want such a sphere of influence, for defensive purposes. We have ours, called the Monroe Doctrine. I don’t see any way out of these realities, until the Lord returns.

    President Trump was not deluded into the belief that Putin would help in a conflict with China. The Russians need to keep the Chinese focus away from their northern border and land that was ceded from the Chinese empire to the Russian empire.

    Nor have we had a Monroe Doctrine for many years. If we did, we would have gone to war with Russia over Cuba and Nicaragua. 

    And, no, no “powerful nation” “gets” to have a sphere of influence, by with Russians mean control of other countries politics. The claim that a “powerful” nation needs to control its neighbors for “defensive” reasons is contradictory. It is a sign of insecurity and weakness of the regime, not power.

    Giving up Ukraine to Putin is the clearest possible signal to Xi that he may invade Taiwan, on the same grounds. That would be disastrous for us.

    • #17
  18. ToryWarWriter Thatcher
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    The whole Nord Stream thing is tricky. Aren’t sanctions on Russia essentially also sanctions on Germany?

    Not really. They can buy it elsewhere. Now, if one assumes Germany is trying to gain at the expense of the West, then sure – it’s a counter if not a sanction. (I’d be ok with sanction in that reading anyway.)

    Actually they cant in sufficient supplies.  In fact if the weather turns bad in Europe they are talking about black outs for German industry and in much of Europe.  Also shortages amongst food.  Famine in Europe in the next few years.

    • #18
  19. Clifford A. Brown Contributor
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I have no problem with Nordstrom sanctions. They should never have been dropped. It’s a bargaining chip.

    Sanctions are good for Texas (LNG exports) and good for Ukraine (they tax NG going through current pipelines). Opening the pipeline gives Russia more leverage over Ukraine (they can cut off supply without affecting Germany).

    That said, Biden is so corrupt and so compromised that we have to assume he will never act in the best interest of the USA. I expect Russia to resolve the turmoil in the Russian-speaking part of eastern Ukraine the same way they did with Crimea. I expect Biden to respond with yelling at clouds.

     

    You mean Germany will no longer face extortion from Ukraine and will get there natural gas directly from Russia at the agreed upon rates.

    Its is the Wests vital security interest to have Russia tied into Europe and away from China.

    The proposed sanctions only help China. They are not within the strategic benefit of the West. Ted Cruz who I like a lot is wrong here. Its a lot of anti-Russian short sighted nonsense. Putin is a direct response to such nonsense.

    Germany does not face extortion from Ukraine. Russia exercises extortion by turning off the tap occasionally. 

    There is zero chance of bribing Russia with control over enough small European countries to overcome their fear of a new peer nuclear power deciding to reclaim territory extracted from a weak Chinese emperor by a Russian czar.

    • #19
  20. ToryWarWriter Thatcher
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    If people want to know whats going on in the real foreign policy world, I recommend the Duran.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • #20
  21. Clifford A. Brown Contributor
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    The whole Nord Stream thing is tricky. Aren’t sanctions on Russia essentially also sanctions on Germany?

    Not really. They can buy it elsewhere. Now, if one assumes Germany is trying to gain at the expense of the West, then sure – it’s a counter if not a sanction. (I’d be ok with sanction in that reading anyway.)

    Actually they cant in sufficient supplies. In fact if the weather turns bad in Europe they are talking about black outs for German industry and in much of Europe. Also shortages amongst food. Famine in Europe in the next few years.

    That is self-inflicted, a result of choosing to virtue signal by taking all their nuclear power plants off line and massively shifting to wind and solar, in Germany!

    • #21
  22. ToryWarWriter Thatcher
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I have no problem with Nordstrom sanctions. They should never have been dropped. It’s a bargaining chip.

    Sanctions are good for Texas (LNG exports) and good for Ukraine (they tax NG going through current pipelines). Opening the pipeline gives Russia more leverage over Ukraine (they can cut off supply without affecting Germany).

    That said, Biden is so corrupt and so compromised that we have to assume he will never act in the best interest of the USA. I expect Russia to resolve the turmoil in the Russian-speaking part of eastern Ukraine the same way they did with Crimea. I expect Biden to respond with yelling at clouds.

     

    You mean Germany will no longer face extortion from Ukraine and will get there natural gas directly from Russia at the agreed upon rates.

    Its is the Wests vital security interest to have Russia tied into Europe and away from China.

    The proposed sanctions only help China. They are not within the strategic benefit of the West. Ted Cruz who I like a lot is wrong here. Its a lot of anti-Russian short sighted nonsense. Putin is a direct response to such nonsense.

    Germany does not face extortion from Ukraine. Russia exercises extortion by turning off the tap occasionally.

    There is zero chance of bribing Russia with control over enough small European countries to overcome their fear of a new peer nuclear power deciding to reclaim territory extracted from a weak Chinese emperor by a Russian czar.

    Nonsense.  The Ukrainians are infamous for siphoning off gas meant for Europe.  

    A lot of mainstream press doesnt talk about these things.  But Germany is deliberately building a pipeline to get around Ukraine for a reason.  

    They trust Russia to directly fuel them via a pipeline through the Baltic Sea than going through Ukraine.

    Russia isnt the problem as far as the Germans are concerned.

    No one is talking about bribing Russia with small countries.  I am talking about integrating their economy with the west.  Thats the solution.  Cutting them off and driving them into the arms of China, is foolish short sighted thinking.

    • #22
  23. ToryWarWriter Thatcher
    ToryWarWriter
    @ToryWarWriter

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    The whole Nord Stream thing is tricky. Aren’t sanctions on Russia essentially also sanctions on Germany?

    Not really. They can buy it elsewhere. Now, if one assumes Germany is trying to gain at the expense of the West, then sure – it’s a counter if not a sanction. (I’d be ok with sanction in that reading anyway.)

    Actually they cant in sufficient supplies. In fact if the weather turns bad in Europe they are talking about black outs for German industry and in much of Europe. Also shortages amongst food. Famine in Europe in the next few years.

    That is self-inflicted, a result of choosing to virtue signal by taking all their nuclear power plants off line and massively shifting to wind and solar, in Germany!

    Oh yeah.  I agree with that.  Merkel and her buddies made a lot of stupid decisions.  

    • #23
  24. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    The whole Nord Stream thing is tricky. Aren’t sanctions on Russia essentially also sanctions on Germany?

    Not really. They can buy it elsewhere. Now, if one assumes Germany is trying to gain at the expense of the West, then sure – it’s a counter if not a sanction. (I’d be ok with sanction in that reading anyway.)

    Actually they cant in sufficient supplies. In fact if the weather turns bad in Europe they are talking about black outs for German industry and in much of Europe. Also shortages amongst food. Famine in Europe in the next few years.

    That is self-inflicted, a result of choosing to virtue signal by taking all their nuclear power plants off line and massively shifting to wind and solar, in Germany!

    Oh yeah. I agree with that. Merkel and her buddies made a lot of stupid decisions.

    I wonder how much the wind and solar people gave the CDU.

    • #24
  25. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk and
    @Misthiocracy

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    The whole Nord Stream thing is tricky. Aren’t sanctions on Russia essentially also sanctions on Germany?

    Not really. They can buy it elsewhere. Now, if one assumes Germany is trying to gain at the expense of the West, then sure – it’s a counter if not a sanction. (I’d be ok with sanction in that reading anyway.)

    But their alternative is not to buy from a different supplier but rather merely to receive the gas via a different route, no?  The US doesn’t want to stop Russian gas from flowing but rather merely to keep it flowing through Ukraine, does it not?  So why shouldn’t Germany be allowed to get the gas via the shortest and cheapest route?  What international law is Russia breaking by using a more efficient route to deliver the gas that it is going to sell anyways?

    • #25
  26. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk and
    @Misthiocracy

    w

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    The whole Nord Stream thing is tricky. Aren’t sanctions on Russia essentially also sanctions on Germany?

    Not really. They can buy it elsewhere. Now, if one assumes Germany is trying to gain at the expense of the West, then sure – it’s a counter if not a sanction. (I’d be ok with sanction in that reading anyway.)

    Actually they cant in sufficient supplies. In fact if the weather turns bad in Europe they are talking about black outs for German industry and in much of Europe. Also shortages amongst food. Famine in Europe in the next few years.

    That is self-inflicted, a result of choosing to virtue signal by taking all their nuclear power plants off line and massively shifting to wind and solar, in Germany!

    Be that as it may, how is it grounds for sanctions?

    • #26
  27. Misthiocracy got drunk and Member
    Misthiocracy got drunk and
    @Misthiocracy

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I have no problem with Nordstrom sanctions. They should never have been dropped. It’s a bargaining chip.

    Sanctions are good for Texas (LNG exports) and good for Ukraine (they tax NG going through current pipelines). Opening the pipeline gives Russia more leverage over Ukraine (they can cut off supply without affecting Germany).

    That said, Biden is so corrupt and so compromised that we have to assume he will never act in the best interest of the USA. I expect Russia to resolve the turmoil in the Russian-speaking part of eastern Ukraine the same way they did with Crimea. I expect Biden to respond with yelling at clouds.

     

    You mean Germany will no longer face extortion from Ukraine and will get there natural gas directly from Russia at the agreed upon rates.

    Its is the Wests vital security interest to have Russia tied into Europe and away from China.

    The proposed sanctions only help China. They are not within the strategic benefit of the West. Ted Cruz who I like a lot is wrong here. Its a lot of anti-Russian short sighted nonsense. Putin is a direct response to such nonsense.

    Germany does not face extortion from Ukraine. Russia exercises extortion by turning off the tap occasionally.

     

    But that doesn’t change whether the gas is delivered through Ukraine or if the gas is delivered through the Nord Stream.  

    Basically, I can see several justifications for imposing sanctions on Russia (the annexation of Crimea, the ongoing war against Ukraine, etc), but building a shorter and more efficient gas pipeline does not strike me as one of those justifications. 

    • #27
  28. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    w

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Barfly (View Comment):

    Misthiocracy got drunk and (View Comment):

    The whole Nord Stream thing is tricky. Aren’t sanctions on Russia essentially also sanctions on Germany?

    Not really. They can buy it elsewhere. Now, if one assumes Germany is trying to gain at the expense of the West, then sure – it’s a counter if not a sanction. (I’d be ok with sanction in that reading anyway.)

    Actually they cant in sufficient supplies. In fact if the weather turns bad in Europe they are talking about black outs for German industry and in much of Europe. Also shortages amongst food. Famine in Europe in the next few years.

    That is self-inflicted, a result of choosing to virtue signal by taking all their nuclear power plants off line and massively shifting to wind and solar, in Germany!

    Be that as it may, how is it grounds for sanctions?

    This is a power competition, not some thing we can take to the principal or the courts. Are you talking about fairness?

    • #28
  29. Clifford A. Brown Contributor
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    ToryWarWriter (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):
    I have no problem with Nordstrom sanctions. They should never have been dropped. It’s a bargaining chip.

    Sanctions are good for Texas (LNG exports) and good for Ukraine (they tax NG going through current pipelines). Opening the pipeline gives Russia more leverage over Ukraine (they can cut off supply without affecting Germany).

    That said, Biden is so corrupt and so compromised that we have to assume he will never act in the best interest of the USA. I expect Russia to resolve the turmoil in the Russian-speaking part of eastern Ukraine the same way they did with Crimea. I expect Biden to respond with yelling at clouds.

     

    You mean Germany will no longer face extortion from Ukraine and will get there natural gas directly from Russia at the agreed upon rates.

    Its is the Wests vital security interest to have Russia tied into Europe and away from China.

    The proposed sanctions only help China. They are not within the strategic benefit of the West. Ted Cruz who I like a lot is wrong here. Its a lot of anti-Russian short sighted nonsense. Putin is a direct response to such nonsense.

    Germany does not face extortion from Ukraine. Russia exercises extortion by turning off the tap occasionally.

    There is zero chance of bribing Russia with control over enough small European countries to overcome their fear of a new peer nuclear power deciding to reclaim territory extracted from a weak Chinese emperor by a Russian czar.

    Nonsense. The Ukrainians are infamous for siphoning off gas meant for Europe.

    A lot of mainstream press doesnt talk about these things. But Germany is deliberately building a pipeline to get around Ukraine for a reason.

    False, unless you cite substantial sources independent of Russia. Yes, Germany and Russia have a little history of agreements.

    They trust Russia to directly fuel them via a pipeline through the Baltic Sea than going through Ukraine.

    Russia isnt the problem as far as the Germans are concerned.

    Molotov-Ribbentrop.

    No one is talking about bribing Russia with small countries. I am talking about integrating their economy with the west. Thats the solution. Cutting them off and driving them into the arms of China, is foolish short sighted thinking.

    Of course you are talking around the embarrassing, unpleasant reality of a Russian leader seeking to fulfill his life ambition of reestablishing the pre-1990 borders of the Russian empire. There is no “driving them into the arms of China,” as you should know. Russia faces a real threat from a re-emergent Chinese empire and a leader, Xi, who is working furiously to build a nuclear and conventional force that will let China take back, among other things, the territory extracted by a Russian czar from a weak Chinese emperor. The territory seized or ceded includes the strategic port called Vladivostok by the Russians. China has already sent/allowed significant numbers of Chinese nationals into the disputed territory, as economic migrants. That creates the same excuse that Russian now uses in Ukraine and other bordering nation-states.

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