Government Spending on ‘Infrastructure’ Not Quite What You Think

 

Allow me to explain how my experience with the TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority) and the NFS (National Forest Service) informs my view of BBB (Build Back Better) and other Democrat initiatives.  Please bear with me on the background for the next several paragraphs – it’s relevant.  I hope you find these patterns as interesting as I do.

Before I moved to the festering swamps of South Carolina, I lived in the majestic mountains of East Tennessee.  I lived at 3,300 feet, on 56 acres surrounded by National Forest.  There was a National Forest access road that crossed my property for about a mile, and it was the only way into the National Forest for miles in any direction.  So I got to know the National Forest guys – they would need the code to my gate to access their road.  We got along well – really good guys.

About two miles behind my house was a major power right of way, where huge power lines carried electricity from a power plant on one side of the mountain to the Tri-Cities area on the other. The TVA also needed to cross my property to get to their lines.  We had a good relationship as well. Which was good, because the power poles up on top of the mountain were getting old, and there were a lot of power outages, so they had to go up there a lot.

As it turns out, those power poles were rated to last 25 years, and they were over 40 years old.  So the whole system up there needed to be replaced.  Which would be difficult, because this was extremely steep, rocky terrain.  Boulders, cliffs, and rattlesnakes.

So the TVA guy stopped by one day and said, “Hey, look, we need to get some heavy equipment up the mountain.  Big track hoes, D8’s, and huge trucks with big poles on them.  The trail on your property will be widened a bit, and we may tear some stuff up.  We’ll fix it all when we’re done, of course.  But this is big stuff, and you’ll know we’ve been here.  I’m really sorry.”

I said that I wasn’t real excited about that.  He explained about all the power outages in the nearby cities, and how old the equipment was, and that they sort of had to do this – they really didn’t have a choice.  He was very nice about it, and I saw his point, so I said ok.  He again assured me that they would clean up their mess when they were done.  He had always been honest with me in the past, so I agreed.

He then called the National Forest, and explained the same thing to them, that he would be crossing their land on the way to his power right of way.  The National Forest said no.  Heavy equipment is not permitted on a nature preserve (or wildlife refuge, or however it’s classified).  The TVA guy said he understood, but this wasn’t really optional – he had to do this.  The National Forest said no.  They talked repeatedly over the coming months, with no compromise from either side.  The TVA guy had to keep the lights on, and the National Forest guy had rules to follow, so there was really nothing to compromise about.  So there you go.

Meanwhile, the repairs of the lines over the mountain were becoming more frequent and more dangerous.  One day, when the TVA guy was watching one of his men hanging out of a helicopter in a snowstorm trying to fix a power line while trying not to get electrocuted, he decided that he just had to do this.  Somebody was going to get killed if they didn’t just fix the problem.

So when the weather got better, he called me and asked if he could bring his equipment up like we had talked about last year.  I said sure, and gave him my gate code.  He didn’t bother to ask NFS again.  Because he already knew what their answer would be.

The NFS had their own gate, at the back of my property – it was a big metal gate with a protected padlock.  The TVA guys just used their track hoe to lift the whole gate out of the ground, and laid it off to the side, to be replaced later when they were done.

They were very busy for about two months, and I was impressed that they didn’t change my trail too much.  And true to his word, when they left they took dozers and re-sloped the trail, planted grass seed, re-did the drainage ditches, and left it much better than they found it.

The National Forest trail was the same way – it went from a rutted, washed-out mess to a beautiful road with no erosion, due to better drainage and lots of grass seed.  A few months later, you couldn’t even tell they had ever been there, except the trail was in much better shape.

And the lights were on in the cities.  All the time.  And I didn’t see the TVA guys on my property.  There was nothing up there for them to fix anymore.

Nothing happened for a year or two.

Then one day a National Forest guy went up the mountain to check on something, and noticed the beautiful new metal power poles instead of the ancient rickety wooden ones that were there before.

He called his boss.  His boss called the TVA guy, and asked if he knew anything about those new power poles.  The TVA guy responded, “What?  Somebody put new power poles up there?  You’re not allowed to do that, you know.  Did you get their license plate number?  I’ll bet some idiot rednecks snuck up there one Saturday night with some beer, some fireworks, a team of structural engineers, and fifteen million dollars worth of heavy equipment and redid the whole dang thing!  My God, if I ever lay my hands on those sneaky kids…”

The National Forest guy was unamused, and filed a lawsuit against the TVA.  After all, there are rules.  What else could he do?

I didn’t hear anything about it for several years.  Until one day in my office, I asked a patient what he did for a living.  He said he was an attorney.  I asked what type of law he practiced, and he said that he had spent his entire career so far working for the federal government, on a lawsuit between the TVA and the National Forest Service.  I can’t remember which side he represented.

It had been over 10 years at this point.  He and his legal team had a few other little things come up from time to time, but he said the vast majority of their resources and time were spent on this case.  Year after year.  They knew the opposing attorneys very well, because they had been working on the same case for so long.  Over time, their wives and families became friends, and they often vacationed together.  They had one joint Christmas party every year for both opposing legal offices.

I asked if he was going to win the case.  He looked a little surprised at the question, and then said, “Yeah, well, it’s more of a process…”  I’m not sure what that means, exactly.

I asked if he enjoyed his job, and he said it was a good gig.  Pay was ok, job security was outstanding, he didn’t have to move to bigger and bigger cities, no real pressure, great benefits.

I called the TVA guy that night – he and I had a good relationship.  I asked him about it.  He said that he heard about the lawsuit from time to time, but it wasn’t really part of his world.  His job was to keep the lights on.  He figured that lawsuit would still be going on in a few decades when his replacement had to replace the power poles that he had replaced.

I wondered aloud whether this was the most efficient use of taxpayer dollars.  He just said, “Eh, that’s how the government does things.  Just the cost of doing business, I suppose…   Gotta keep the lights on, right?

I wonder how much they spent on repairs for the 10-15 years before they replaced those power poles, working on top of a remote mountain in thunderstorms.  I wonder how much they’ve spent on this lawsuit, for the federal government to sue itself over a job that it had no choice but to do?

I wonder what the price of electricity in east Tennessee would be if some woman named Kate was in charge.  Someone who has to balance her own checkbook, someone with a high school education who works two jobs to make the payment on her double-wide, and who has more than a bit of common sense.

Federal bureaucrat:  “Hey, Kate.  We’ve got some extra ‘infrastructure’ money to spend, so we’re going to sue ourselves for environmental destruction that didn’t happen to provide a jobs program for our legal departments.

Kate:  “No.

But electricity is expensive because Kate is not in charge.  No one is, really.


A friend mentioned to me the other day how incredible it was, that when he turned on a light switch, the lights came on every time.

I told him that it was even more incredible than he understood.  He just had no idea.  He was probably thinking about electrons.  I was thinking about bureaucrats.

Under President Biden, the federal government is attempting a rapid takeover of as much of the American economy as possible.  When you read the next news story about “Build Back Better” or whatever the program of the day is, think about my story about the TVA and the NFS.

You don’t need to wonder how all those Democrat infrastructure spending bills will work out.  You already know:

A lot of money will get spent on stuff that has nothing to do with infrastructure.  Lots and lots and lots of money.

Much of this money will be paid to people with white-collar government jobs, who are expected to vote Democrat.  Other portions of that money will go to unions, who then donate that very same money back to the Democrat party.  Other portions of that money simply disappear, like fog on a beautiful sunny morning.

Very, very little of that Democrat campaign money will be wasted on anything resembling ‘infrastructure.’  Why would they do that?  That’s not what it’s for.

But despite their best efforts, things may actually sort of work.  The lights may continue to turn on, even in California.  The water may continue to be safe, even in Flint.  The levees may be maintained, even in New Orleans.  Things may actually sort of work.  For a while.

Until they don’t.

But don’t worry.  The government will fix it.

As long as you agree to increase your taxes again to pay for ‘infrastructure’.

So you shouldn’t complain about your taxes.  Your tax dollars are not campaign contributions for the Democrat party.  Remember – your taxes are used for ‘infrastructure.’  All this tax money is being spent on you!  Not the Democrat party!  Really!

I know it’s true – I saw it on CNN…

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  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    TVA didn’t have an easement?

    The National Forest Service won’t even allow their own trucks up there. Where there’s a forest fire, the fire fighters have to hike in, and fight the fire with only what they can carry. You may think I’m joking, but it’s true. The whole forest is burning down, and they’re afraid of leaving tire tracks in the dust. Makes no sense…

    Isn’t it actually illegal to prevent someone from crossing your property to access their property, if they have no other way to do so?

    You have to sue for an easement.

    That may have to be done to start with, if it wasn’t already done when the land was developed or something.  But from what I’ve read, they’re “always” granted because otherwise the inaccessible land is essentially worthless.

    • #31
  2. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    And seems like if TVA already had a right-of-way, they shouldn’t need to sue again for access to it.

    • #32
  3. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    TVA didn’t have an easement?

    The National Forest Service won’t even allow their own trucks up there. Where there’s a forest fire, the fire fighters have to hike in, and fight the fire with only what they can carry. You may think I’m joking, but it’s true. The whole forest is burning down, and they’re afraid of leaving tire tracks in the dust. Makes no sense…

    Isn’t it actually illegal to prevent someone from crossing your property to access their property, if they have no other way to do so?

    That’s a complicated subject, with rules varying from state to state. There are companies that will offer to teach your township officials how to deal with it, as they are required to do in some states, without getting sued from all sides.

    If you do an internet search for “cartway access Minnesota” you’ll be able to find some interesting case studies and court cases. I wrote a blog article or two about it at one time, but they are not accessible now. There is a lot of landlocked property in Minnesota lake country and elsewhere, and the whole process can result in hard feelings between neighbors, and toward township officials, as was apparent from the few comments my blog article received.

    The law on access to property does differ by state, and often it matters how the property became “landlocked.” There are also issues not just about access, but how much access. 

    A friend in the property title business in New York told me about a property owner who discovered a prior owner had in the late 1800s granted to a neighboring farm a seasonal easement for farm equipment. The neighboring farm could use the easement only during certain times of year, and only for the large equipment (not for regular use by ordinary transportation vehicles).

    The law tends to be unsympathetic if the owner of the landlocked property created the landlocked situation himself. For example, if the landowner keeps one part of a property when subdividing and relies on an informal easement rather than creating the formal easement. Here in my county in Texas there is such a situation in which the property was divided as part of a divorce. Since the divorce involved many issues other than the property, not enough care was taken with the property access, and pieces of the property have subsequently been further sold, leaving the original property owner’s retained parcel landlocked. Further complicating the original owner’s problem is that his retained parcel is County B, while the rest of the land that used to be his is in County A. Since it doesn’t matter to County A’s property tax revenue if the retained parcel in County B has no value, County A has no incentive to help the property owner.

    • #33
  4. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    I’m pleased to hear that you were satisfied with the TVA’s restoration of the property after the construction project. Disputes about the adequacy of property remediation are common. Near to me a pipeline company recently put in a new oil pipeline. Several property owners who sold easements to the pipeline company are complaining that during pipeline construction the company destroyed more trees than they said they would, and did not adequately restore parts of the properties to the extent the company had supposedly promised. Of course in hindsight people wish the easement agreements were more precise in their language about property remediation, but defining that ahead of time is not so easy. One person may be pleased a trail is “nicer” with more grass, while another person may want the trail to end up looking more like it did before construction. 

    My subdivision has some empty lots in the southwest corner of the subdivision that look odd if one didn’t know that there is a preexisting natural gas pipeline under those lots. So both safety and access easements prevent building on those lots. (Further oddly, despite the natural gas pipeline extending under the neighborhood, there is no retail natural gas distribution available in the neighborhood, so all the houses are all electric.) 

    • #34
  5. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    kedavis (View Comment):

    And seems like if TVA already had a right-of-way, they shouldn’t need to sue again for access to it.

    That wasn’t the issue.

    The land is classified as a ‘wildlife preserve’ or something.  Which means no motorized vehicles.  That’s the rule, as I understand it.

    • #35
  6. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    And seems like if TVA already had a right-of-way, they shouldn’t need to sue again for access to it.

    That wasn’t the issue.

    The land is classified as a ‘wildlife preserve’ or something. Which means no motorized vehicles. That’s the rule, as I understand it.

    So a forest fire in a wildlife preserve is sort of like a faith healer with appendicitis.

    • #36
  7. Chowderhead Coolidge
    Chowderhead
    @Podunk

    It’s obvious where the system failed here. As soon as it was clear the forestry couldn’t be persuaded to grant access, the power company should have contacted your US senator. Daily if need be. Give the person a little time then go to the media and start shaming people. It really isn’t that hard with a little determination.

    I am on a water resources committee. I need to come up with $14M of infrastructure funding for only 630 households. That is 22K per without debt service. I am going to pull back as much of our money as I can from Build Back Bummer. Believe me, every dollar we receive will be spent tighter than Kate will do. For instance, we just put in four miles of pipe. We pushed this to the top priority because the state is going to pave the main road next year. We just reused the survey data and the state (us) is paying for paving.

     

    • #37
  8. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Chowderhead (View Comment):
    It’s obvious where the system failed here. As soon as it was clear the forestry couldn’t be persuaded to grant access, the power company should have contacted your US senator. Daily if need be. Give the person a little time then go to the media and start shaming people. It really isn’t that hard with a little determination.

    No, that will never happen.  They may sue each other, but they are not going to start shaming each other.  You can be even more certain that they are never going to argue that their department needs more money in its budget, and that the place to get it is from the USDA Forestry budget, whose funds are being ill-used. 

    Back in the 90s I suggested that government agencies that think they need more money should also propose which agencies the money should be taken from. The local newspaper editor thought I had blasphemed all that was holy, though those weren’t the exact words he used in an editorial against the idea.   (This editor was actually a decent guy that one could argue with, and I did push back against his editorial.  But he is no longer in the newspaper editor business, nor is anyone else like him still in the business, as far as I can tell.) 

     

    • #38
  9. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Chowderhead (View Comment):
    It’s obvious where the system failed here. As soon as it was clear the forestry couldn’t be persuaded to grant access, the power company should have contacted your US senator. Daily if need be. Give the person a little time then go to the media and start shaming people. It really isn’t that hard with a little determination.

    Once that hits the media, the power company would lose automatically.  They want to destroy the environment just so billionaires can use unnecessary electricity to heat their Olympic sized hot tubs.  Tell me senator, why do you want millions of Pacific Islanders to die from global warming flooding?

    This may sound silly.  But tens of millions of Californians would tell you that this is how public policy is made…

    • #39
  10. SecondBite Member
    SecondBite
    @SecondBite

    Ekosj (View Comment):

    Thinking that government exists to solve problems and get things done is a fatal first mistake in any analysis of what the government does. Government’s job is to spend every nickel authorized this fiscal year (more if possible) and develop plans to spend even more next year.

    When I was a young college student in DC, friends who had internships within the Federal bureaucracy would routinely get invited to “we spent the last of our budget“ office parties. I even attended a few as a “+ guest” so I can personally attest that these events are not apocryphal.

    Spending money is their job. They do it very well.

    In a cynical moment, I once told my kids that government existed solely to sequester as much wealth for itself as possible.  Turns out I was less cynical than realistic.

    • #40
  11. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    SecondBite (View Comment):
    In a cynical moment, I once told my kids that government existed solely to sequester as much wealth for itself as possible.  Turns out I was less cynical than realistic.

    I would substitute ‘power’ for ‘wealth’ in your statement.  But since the government gains power largely by controlling money, our semantic debate is not likely to be important…

    • #41
  12. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Chowderhead (View Comment):
    Believe me, every dollar we receive will be spent tighter than Kate will do.

    Tighter than Dick’s hatband?

    • #42
  13. Chowderhead Coolidge
    Chowderhead
    @Podunk

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Chowderhead (View Comment):
    It’s obvious where the system failed here. As soon as it was clear the forestry couldn’t be persuaded to grant access, the power company should have contacted your US senator. Daily if need be. Give the person a little time then go to the media and start shaming people. It really isn’t that hard with a little determination.

    Once that hits the media, the power company would lose automatically. They want to destroy the environment just so billionaires can use unnecessary electricity to heat their Olympic sized hot tubs. Tell me senator, why do you want millions of Pacific Islanders to die from global warming flooding?

    This may sound silly. But tens of millions of Californians would tell you that this is how public policy is made…

    Well this seems like a regional difference. It would work here. Our liberals are the billionaires. Liberals here don’t mind hurting the environment as long as they don’t have to see it. It makes them feel good. They want electric cars that charge at night with electricity generated by coal. Here is your example x1000. There is not one spec of opposition to mow down a swath of forest to connect MA to Canada. Maine people aren’t happy but it’s getting done anyways.

    https://wgme.com/news/local/work-on-cmp-power-line-continues-despite-maine-voters-rejecting-the-project

     

    https://www.wmtw.com/article/maine-lawmakers-massachusetts-gov-charlie-baker-cmp-corridor/38336190

     

    The lawmakers said Tuesday that proceeding with the project against the will of Maine residents could “jeopardize New England’s energy future.”

    The 145-mile power line in western Maine is fully funded by Massachusetts ratepayers to meet the state’s clean energy goals.

     

    • #43
  14. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Chowderhead (View Comment):
    It’s obvious where the system failed here. As soon as it was clear the forestry couldn’t be persuaded to grant access, the power company should have contacted your US senator. Daily if need be. Give the person a little time then go to the media and start shaming people. It really isn’t that hard with a little determination.

    Once that hits the media, the power company would lose automatically. They want to destroy the environment just so billionaires can use unnecessary electricity to heat their Olympic sized hot tubs. Tell me senator, why do you want millions of Pacific Islanders to die from global warming flooding?

    This may sound silly. But tens of millions of Californians would tell you that this is how public policy is made…

    Fortunately, we’re not California.

    • #44
  15. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Have any of you read any of Philip K. Howard’s books? They are full of these types of stories and worse. I’ve read three of them, “The Death of Common Sense” “The Collapse of the Common Good” and “The Rule of Nobody.” All excellent and infuriating.

    From the introduction to Try Common Sense:

    The 2016 election of Donald Trump showed, sooner than I expected, that voters are so fed up with overbearing government that they were ready for change at almost any price. But the tepid response by both parties surprised me more. After continuing to work through 2017 with the new administration and Congress to try to unstick the gears, I realized that persuading Washington is hopeless. The political parties just continue to sow partisan distrust instead of dealing with the root causes of voter anger. They compete by dividing society, and rely on the lack of credible political alternatives to take turns in power without actually taking responsibility to fix things. Their duopoly has settled into a predictable pattern: First you fail, then I fail.

    Thank you. Added the books to my list.

    • #45
  16. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Lois Lane (View Comment):

    My big question… Why would you ever leave such a beautiful house in East Tennessee???

    Yeah, no kidding.  It was just wonderful up there. 

    But I had to leave for business reasons.   Tragic… 

    • #46
  17. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    When I was a young college student in DC, friends who had internships within the Federal bureaucracy would routinely get invited to “we spent the last of our budget“ office parties.  I even attended a few as a “+  guest” so I can personally attest that these events are not apocryphal.

    I can also attest.  My first job in Madison was a joint Federal/State agency.  I personally sat in meetings near the end of the fiscal year where the feds would talk about sending people out on overnight trips to use up the travel budget.  No other purpose for the trip.  Just overnight in a  motel somewhere.

    • #47
  18. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    When I was a young college student in DC, friends who had internships within the Federal bureaucracy would routinely get invited to “we spent the last of our budget“ office parties. I even attended a few as a “+ guest” so I can personally attest that these events are not apocryphal.

    I can also attest. My first job in Madison was a joint Federal/State agency. I personally sat in meetings near the end of the fiscal year where the feds would talk about sending people out on overnight trips to use up the travel budget. No other purpose for the trip. Just overnight in a motel somewhere.

    The screwy part of that is, it can actually make sense.  If they don’t spend it, and their budget is automatically cut as a result, then next year they may not be able to do some of those things even if they actually need to.

    • #48
  19. Alan Aronoff Member
    Alan Aronoff
    @Alan Aronoff

    And, these are the people who will save the planet from global warming/global freezing/climate change. Not very likely, but at least it will keep us from thinking of the general bureaucratic incompetence.

    • #49
  20. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Alan Aronoff (View Comment):

    And, these are the people who will save the planet from global warming/global freezing/climate change. Not very likely, but at least it will keep us from thinking of the general bureaucratic incompetence.

    Not really.

    • #50
  21. Randy Weivoda Moderator
    Randy Weivoda
    @RandyWeivoda

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Chowderhead (View Comment):
    It’s obvious where the system failed here. As soon as it was clear the forestry couldn’t be persuaded to grant access, the power company should have contacted your US senator. Daily if need be. Give the person a little time then go to the media and start shaming people. It really isn’t that hard with a little determination.

    Once that hits the media, the power company would lose automatically. They want to destroy the environment just so billionaires can use unnecessary electricity to heat their Olympic sized hot tubs. Tell me senator, why do you want millions of Pacific Islanders to die from global warming flooding?

    This may sound silly. But tens of millions of Californians would tell you that this is how public policy is made…

    But Tennessee is not California.  I should think that the number of Tennesseans who want reliable electricity has to far outnumber the ones who are willing to let the system fall apart rather than send some machinery into the forest.

    • #51
  22. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    Different pieces of government suing each other is not particularly unusual. Since power and authority is so diffuse (especially in the federal government) there is rarely anyone who can bang heads together and demand they stop. Rigid rules that must be followed at all costs (see your example of the Forest Service) hamper resolution of disputes.

    Yes, but notice that the TVA people were willing to restore the landscape to its original state–even make it better–while the Forest Service people were entirely uncooperative. Why? Because many in the TVA are decent sane human beings, while the Forest Service and EPA are largely staffed by eco fanatics.

    That’s their mandate if they put in this kind of infrastructure – restore it to its prior state or improve it.  I’m sure there are a zillion horror stories out there, but utilities aren’t like fire departments.  They do their best to return the work site to its prior condition.

    They don’t necessarily do this stuff because they’re “nice”.  Ultimately the ratepayers are paying for this niceness, but it also avoids complaints and negative press when rates get approved by utilities commissions, etc.  Last thing a utility wants to hear at a rate hearing/public comment session is how that damn power company tore up my lawn real good.

    • #52
  23. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Hang On (View Comment):

    TVA didn’t have an easement?

    The National Forest Service won’t even allow their own trucks up there. Where there’s a forest fire, the fire fighters have to hike in, and fight the fire with only what they can carry. You may think I’m joking, but it’s true. The whole forest is burning down, and they’re afraid of leaving tire tracks in the dust. Makes no sense…

    Can we burn down the National Forest Service?  If we did, would anybody notice?

    • #53
  24. Gazpacho Grande' Coolidge
    Gazpacho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    When I was a young college student in DC, friends who had internships within the Federal bureaucracy would routinely get invited to “we spent the last of our budget“ office parties. I even attended a few as a “+ guest” so I can personally attest that these events are not apocryphal.

    I can also attest. My first job in Madison was a joint Federal/State agency. I personally sat in meetings near the end of the fiscal year where the feds would talk about sending people out on overnight trips to use up the travel budget. No other purpose for the trip. Just overnight in a motel somewhere.

    The screwy part of that is, it can actually make sense. If they don’t spend it, and their budget is automatically cut as a result, then next year they may not be able to do some of those things even if they actually need to.

    No it doesn’t.  You don’t spend money on useless things – period.  I’ll understand buying of capital assets to  one degree or another, which is basically buying ahead to meet a spend target (budget) in the current year.  But the assets will get used.

    Money spent to travel somewhere to consume budget is an insult to the people footing the bill.  Taxpayers and people not yet born who will pay off the debt they had zero voice in getting saddled with.

    • #54
  25. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Caryn (View Comment):

    Have any of you read any of Philip K. Howard’s books? They are full of these types of stories and worse. I’ve read three of them, “The Death of Common Sense” “The Collapse of the Common Good” and “The Rule of Nobody.” All excellent and infuriating.

    From the introduction to Try Common Sense:

    The 2016 election of Donald Trump showed, sooner than I expected, that voters are so fed up with overbearing government that they were ready for change at almost any price. But the tepid response by both parties surprised me more. After continuing to work through 2017 with the new administration and Congress to try to unstick the gears, I realized that persuading Washington is hopeless. The political parties just continue to sow partisan distrust instead of dealing with the root causes of voter anger. They compete by dividing society, and rely on the lack of credible political alternatives to take turns in power without actually taking responsibility to fix things. Their duopoly has settled into a predictable pattern: First you fail, then I fail.

    Thank you. Added the books to my list.

    I am already black pilled enough. 

    I am convinced that civil was is the only answer. Unfortunately, the likelihood of a good outcome of that is very low.

    • #55
  26. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Gazpacho Grande' (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    Different pieces of government suing each other is not particularly unusual. Since power and authority is so diffuse (especially in the federal government) there is rarely anyone who can bang heads together and demand they stop. Rigid rules that must be followed at all costs (see your example of the Forest Service) hamper resolution of disputes.

    Yes, but notice that the TVA people were willing to restore the landscape to its original state–even make it better–while the Forest Service people were entirely uncooperative. Why? Because many in the TVA are decent sane human beings, while the Forest Service and EPA are largely staffed by eco fanatics.

    That’s their mandate if they put in this kind of infrastructure – restore it to its prior state or improve it. I’m sure there are a zillion horror stories out there, but utilities aren’t like fire departments. They do their best to return the work site to its prior condition.

    They don’t necessarily do this stuff because they’re “nice”. Ultimately the ratepayers are paying for this niceness, but it also avoids complaints and negative press when rates get approved by utilities commissions, etc. Last thing a utility wants to hear at a rate hearing/public comment session is how that damn power company tore up my lawn real good.

    That seems to have mattered here in Michigan. Last week I was explaining to the local tree service guy how after last summer’s outage, the power company not only replaced the broken power pole in my old barnyard (now a lawn) better than it had before, and upgraded the transformer just because, but sent out a crew to come out and  fix the lawn, rolling it flat, putting new topsoil in the ruts that remained, and reseeding it.  It all came out well. It was certainly better than what happened 10 years ago, when they left ruts in the barnyard that were still a nuisance to mow.   Our tree guy explained that they’ve gotten a lot better at it in the past few years, in response to complaints.  (Those complaints probably were of interest to regulators.)

    • #56
  27. Brian Clendinen Inactive
    Brian Clendinen
    @BrianClendinen

    You forgot the most corrput persons in this whole saga. The Federal Judges that let this absurdity go on for so long. Sonds like a sweet gig so they dont have to due real court cases. I am convinced Judges are the biggest treat to this nation. Way more than any terrorist ever has or could be. They have about a 1000 times plus more innocent lives blooding their hands. This is just bread and butter every day judiciary corruption that is common. 

    • #57
  28. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gazpacho Grande' (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Ekosj (View Comment):
    When I was a young college student in DC, friends who had internships within the Federal bureaucracy would routinely get invited to “we spent the last of our budget“ office parties. I even attended a few as a “+ guest” so I can personally attest that these events are not apocryphal.

    I can also attest. My first job in Madison was a joint Federal/State agency. I personally sat in meetings near the end of the fiscal year where the feds would talk about sending people out on overnight trips to use up the travel budget. No other purpose for the trip. Just overnight in a motel somewhere.

    The screwy part of that is, it can actually make sense. If they don’t spend it, and their budget is automatically cut as a result, then next year they may not be able to do some of those things even if they actually need to.

    No it doesn’t. You don’t spend money on useless things – period. I’ll understand buying of capital assets to one degree or another, which is basically buying ahead to meet a spend target (budget) in the current year. But the assets will get used.

    Money spent to travel somewhere to consume budget is an insult to the people footing the bill. Taxpayers and people not yet born who will pay off the debt they had zero voice in getting saddled with.

    You can’t imagine a situation where specific instances of travel that weren’t necessary last year, might be necessary the following year?  But they can’t do it, because the funding was taken away?  You think that anyone, even a government agency, knows exactly how much travel will be required NEXT YEAR?  And how much it will cost?

    • #58
  29. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):

    You forgot the most corrput persons in this whole saga. The Federal Judges that let this absurdity go on for so long. Sonds like a sweet gig so they dont have to due real court cases. I am convinced Judges are the biggest treat to this nation. Way more than any terrorist ever has or could be. They have about a 1000 times plus more innocent lives blooding their hands. This is just bread and butter every day judiciary corruption that is common.

    I came to the conclusion long ago that the fundamental priority of judges is to keep lawyers employed.  It’s a gild thing.

    • #59
  30. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):

    You forgot the most corrput persons in this whole saga. The Federal Judges that let this absurdity go on for so long. Sonds like a sweet gig so they dont have to due real court cases. I am convinced Judges are the biggest treat to this nation. Way more than any terrorist ever has or could be. They have about a 1000 times plus more innocent lives blooding their hands. This is just bread and butter every day judiciary corruption that is common.

    I came to the conclusion long ago that the fundamental priority of judges is to keep lawyers employed. It’s a gild thing.

    You mean like gilding the lily?

    • #60
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