OK, Maybe Controversial, But Trump Is Owed a Second Term

 

A friend of mine says, “Of course, the NeverTrumpers were right after all. Trump had so alienated suburban women by his personal behavior, he couldn’t possibly have won a second term.”

This person was Trump-resistant but voted for him nonetheless and was pleasantly surprised at all he accomplished. In the end, however, after he lost, my friend returned to type. Trump was icky all along and deserved all he got.

The recent indictment of Hilary Clinton lawyer Michael Sussman, and the even more recent arrest of Michael Steele consigliere Igor Danchenko, along with the naming of various other high ranking Democrat conspirators, including Jake Sullivan, who works in the State Department at this moment, revives in me deep anger, fear, and a certainty that Donald Trump is owed four more years in the White House.

What I tell my friend and what I will say to you now is that Donald Trump was the victim of the most significant political crime in the history of our country. He came under assault from this crime and these criminals every day of his four years. This assault was perpetrated by a criminal political class within our government and was nothing less than a coup d’état unlike we have ever seen in our history.

And yes, it is likely Trump won anyway.

Consider what has been revealed in recent days by the team surrounding prosecutor John Durham.

Michael Sussman was a lawyer with the Washington DC firm of Perkins Coie, a Democrat, and Bill and Hilary Clinton legal redoubt. Have you heard about the secret connection between a Trump organization computer and a Russian bank? Supposedly this was the backchannel of communication and cash that proved Trump was owned and even an agent of Vladimir Putin. It was all made up. It was totally false. Sussman cooked it up along with a top-ranking tech executive, a major American university, and others.

In a private meeting with the General Counsel of the FBI, Sussman presented this fabrication in hopes the FBI would investigate, which they did. Sussman et al. also peddled this lie to the news media, which happily reported it. Some of them still do. It was all a lie.

In even more recent days, a Russian national named Igor Danchenko has been arrested and indicted for making false claims to the FBI. Danchenko was one of the primary sources for the so-called Steele Dossier used by nefarious figures in the FBI and the Department of Justice to invade the Trump campaign, lie to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to spy on the political opponents of Barack Obama and Bill and Hillary Clinton. The Steele Dossier was the report that roiled our politics for every minute of the Trump administration. Every minute of his administration was spent in fighting this complete fabrication.

Do you remember the Steele Dossier charge that Trump hired prostitutes to urinate on the bed in the Presidential Suite of the Ritz Carlton-Moscow? He supposedly did this because it was where Obama and his wife once slept. Danchenko totally made it up. It had no basis in fact. Of course, most of us knew that at the time. It made no sense. This alone should have been enough to stop federal agents from persecuting Donald Trump and his staff.

I will repeat that Trump and his team had to deal with this every single day for more than four years. Even now, a close friend of mine is convinced the Russians have something on Trump. And this person is highly placed in Washington DC circles.

Besides all the fabrications, it was the Clinton campaign that was hip-deep in Russians. Danchenko was a Russian national. Charles Dolan, identified at PR-Executive 1 in the Durham indictment, has been a longtime advisor not just to the Clintons and the Democrats but also to the Russian government.

Even though Donald Trump and his team had this millstone around their necks every day for more than a year, they accomplished a great deal. I covered this in detail in my book The Catholic Case for Trump.

Trump destroyed the physical ISIS Caliphate that occupied more land than Great Britain, something Obama could not do. Trump made the U.S. energy independent, an energy-exporting country, something frittered away in months by Joe Biden. Trump utterly remade the federal judiciary and the Supreme Court. It is irrelevant that he had advisors helping him. All presidents do. Trump was the most pro-life president the United States has ever had post-Roe v. Wade. He initiated pro-life policies that someone like George Bush never even considered. Instead, Bush sacrificed the pro-life issue for his forever war in the Middle East.

Trump did all this and more even though wicked men and women in and out of the federal government came after him with lies and fabrications that had to have occupied a great deal of his time and mindspace.

I understand that many conservatives may have Trump fatigue. Consider this, though. Much of that Trump fatigue had to have been related to the poisonous Steele Dossier and all that came from it. He was a man cornered by liars, and he reacted, sometimes badly. Imagine what might have happened if the FBI had done the right thing and recognized the Russian hoax for what it was? What might have happened if the FBI and the Justice Department had not acted like criminals? What might have been if Trump had been given an open field to lead the country? Sure, Trump would have been Trump, and a lot of folks do not like Trump. But at least he would have been given a chance.

My view after reading the Durham indictments of Michael Sussman and Igor Danchenko is that Trump is owed four more years. I know this will likely not happen. Nonetheless, we owe him that.

[Image Credit: Unsplash]

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  1. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Hang On (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys do not get it. Power is not given it is taken. Trump let his power be taken and Biden took that power. Heck Biden is one of the few POTUS that took the office on the back of an army. It is his. He will keep it until somebody else takes it. It is how power is always done.

    So Biden is Lenin. Or Mao.

    Time will tell

    • #91
  2. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Django (View Comment):

    Al Sparks (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    What I will say is that he was prevented — by a dishonest press, a biased big tech juggernaut, and a corrupt bureaucracy — from governing as the legitimate President he was, and that he was almost certainly cheated out of reelection by those leftist actors.

    He made some unforced errors. During the 2016 election, he actually did shut his mouth and tweets during the last month of the election. I was waiting for him to do that in 2020, but he couldn’t turn it off.

    But another unforced error was his conduct during the Covid press conferencces. He had a chance to act presidential in a normal way, but doubled down on partisanship against the press.

    There was a lot under his control that he wouldn’t control.

    For me, politicians are tools (just as I am to them as a voter). As a tool, Trump is no longer useful to me. If he hadn’t of screwed up January 6th, he could have been an ex-president that rivaled Teddy Rooselvelt’s post-presidency with a shot at another term. He blew that too.

    All I’m interested in is keeping Trump voters in the same tent, hopefully without Trump.

    If it’s someone such as Hogan, Cheney, Kinsinger, DeWine, Christie … never mind.

    I’ll vote for Trump or DeSantis. Can’t see anyone else now.

    I completely agree with you. I will only consider the candidates from the “Fighter Caucus”.

     

    • #92
  3. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys do not get it. Power is not given it is taken. Trump let his power be taken and Biden took that power. Heck Biden is one of the few POTUS that took the office on the back of an army. It is his. He will keep it until somebody else takes it. It is how power is always done.

    Out of respect for those unfortunate souls who actually have lost their political voices through military-backed coup d’état, I’ll point out that the 2020 election dispute was decided through legal means, via the courts and the Congress. In keeping with our tradition, America experienced yet another orderly — if in this case inelegant — transfer of power.

    Henry, F J/J G lives in a parallel hell world where all hope is dead and 1984 is the best case scenario.

    • #93
  4. OmegaPaladin Moderator
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    If Rubio had been the candidate, I’d have left the top slot blank, and I’d much rather see Cruz on the SCOTUS.

    Rubio was my choice. I don’t understand why anyone couldn’t vote for him. I certainly understand how anyone could not vote for Trump. Rubio actually understands the world. But carry on. I find it difficult to have a discussion with this kind of viewpoint, so I am bowing out.

    His immigration stance is absolute garbage and he would compromise all the time with Democrats.  These are based on his record, @juliablaschke  I would have voted for him in the general, but my vote for president never matters due to being in Illinois.

    • #94
  5. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys do not get it. Power is not given it is taken. Trump let his power be taken and Biden took that power. Heck Biden is one of the few POTUS that took the office on the back of an army. It is his. He will keep it until somebody else takes it. It is how power is always done.

    Out of respect for those unfortunate souls who actually have lost their political voices through military-backed coup d’état, I’ll point out that the 2020 election dispute was decided through legal means, via the courts and the Congress. In keeping with our tradition, America experienced yet another orderly — if in this case inelegant — transfer of power.

    Henry, F J/J G lives in a parallel hell world where all hope is dead and 1984 is the best case scenario.

    CAUTION: Some parallel worlds are closer than they appear.

    • #95
  6. Columbo Inactive
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    If Rubio had been the candidate, I’d have left the top slot blank, and I’d much rather see Cruz on the SCOTUS.

    Rubio was my choice. I don’t understand why anyone couldn’t vote for him. I certainly understand how anyone could not vote for Trump. Rubio actually understands the world. But carry on. I find it difficult to have a discussion with this kind of viewpoint, so I am bowing out.

    Even the vain Chris Christie who is just as pathetic as Rubio as a POTUS candidate saw why not to vote for Rubio, especially given his garbage immigration stances and Gang of 8 persona ….

     

     

    • #96
  7. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Flicker (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    Gazpacho Grande’ (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    I don’t think we owe Trump or any other politician anything. Yes, he was conspired against and treated badly, but so are a lot of politicians.

    I certainly don’t want another 4 years of Trump. The American people are owed someone better.

    Who owes it to us? Where can we collect this IOU from? Chuck Schumer?

    Don’t be facetious please. We owe it to ourselves. The Founding of this country was a miracle. Let’s vote like we appreciate this country and the incredible gift we have been granted by our citizenship. We owe it to ourselves to vote wisely. We don’t owe Trump anything.

    I think “we” collectively owe him a first term. :)

    LOL. If he does win another term with this break in between from the previous, is he term limited or does the break allow him a third term?  I forget how that works. 

    • #97
  8. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Django (View Comment):

    Al Sparks (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    What I will say is that he was prevented — by a dishonest press, a biased big tech juggernaut, and a corrupt bureaucracy — from governing as the legitimate President he was, and that he was almost certainly cheated out of reelection by those leftist actors.

    He made some unforced errors. During the 2016 election, he actually did shut his mouth and tweets during the last month of the election. I was waiting for him to do that in 2020, but he couldn’t turn it off.

    But another unforced error was his conduct during the Covid press conferencces. He had a chance to act presidential in a normal way, but doubled down on partisanship against the press.

    There was a lot under his control that he wouldn’t control.

    For me, politicians are tools (just as I am to them as a voter). As a tool, Trump is no longer useful to me. If he hadn’t of screwed up January 6th, he could have been an ex-president that rivaled Teddy Rooselvelt’s post-presidency with a shot at another term. He blew that too.

    All I’m interested in is keeping Trump voters in the same tent, hopefully without Trump.

    If it’s someone such as Hogan, Cheney, Kinsinger, DeWine, Christie … never mind.

    I’ll vote for Trump or DeSantis. Can’t see anyone else now.

    I’ve been trying to push Greg Abbott of Texas. Seems to me, from a distance of course, he’s done a super job in Texas. What do people think?  

    • #98
  9. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    OmegaPaladin (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    You guys do not get it. Power is not given it is taken. Trump let his power be taken and Biden took that power. Heck Biden is one of the few POTUS that took the office on the back of an army. It is his. He will keep it until somebody else takes it. It is how power is always done.

    Out of respect for those unfortunate souls who actually have lost their political voices through military-backed coup d’état, I’ll point out that the 2020 election dispute was decided through legal means, via the courts and the Congress. In keeping with our tradition, America experienced yet another orderly — if in this case inelegant — transfer of power.

    Henry, F J/J G lives in a parallel hell world where all hope is dead and 1984 is the best case scenario.

    It’s called reality.  Come visit some time.  

    • #99
  10. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Manny (View Comment):
    I’ve been trying to push Greg Abbott of Texas. Seems to me, from a distance of course, he’s done a super job in Texas. What do people think?  

     Maybe.

    • #100
  11. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Columbo (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    If Rubio had been the candidate, I’d have left the top slot blank, and I’d much rather see Cruz on the SCOTUS.

    Rubio was my choice. I don’t understand why anyone couldn’t vote for him. I certainly understand how anyone could not vote for Trump. Rubio actually understands the world. But carry on. I find it difficult to have a discussion with this kind of viewpoint, so I am bowing out.

    Even the vain Chris Christie who is just as pathetic as Rubio as a POTUS candidate saw why not to vote for Rubio, especially given his garbage immigration stances and Gang of 8 persona ….

     

    Thank you, Columbo — I’m no fan of Chris Christie, all things considered, despite his experience doing X and Y in some corrupt state.  And I *was* a fan of Marco Rubio, Senator(DeepState) from Nowhere who tried to sand the corners on amnesty.  Shame on him and I don;t even think his heart was in it — he just got way too deep into Madame Charen’s pity for the downtrodden Brown People and their required patronization by the Deep State for any conservative to be comfortable with.

    Rubio was a specific flavor of heartbreak — one that has a name: Gang of Eight.

    This was a great example of CC taking down (as you say) MR on the debate stage.  For those who never thought that much of Trump, watch the video again, and pay attention to the body language and camera presence of everybody who is *not* speaking.  Most look like they are waiting to speak — Trump looks like he is weighing a grade for the speaker.  Certainly that counted for something.  He didn’t play the same game, it is true — he, like Reagan, won by playing his own game.

    But yes — CC definitively took down MR by pointing out his POLSCI-101 performance at the graduate level.  Almost unfair.

    • #101
  12. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    BDB (View Comment):

    Rubio was a specific flavor of heartbreak — one that has a name: Gang of Eight.

    This was a great example of CC taking down (as you say) MR on the debate stage.  For those who never thought that much of Trump, watch the video again, and pay attention to the body language and camera presence of everybody who is *not* speaking.  Most look like they are waiting to speak — Trump looks like he is weighing a grade for the speaker.  Certainly that counted for something.  He didn’t play the same game, it is true — he, like Reagan, won by playing his own game.

    But yes — CC definitively took down MR by pointing out his POLSCI-101 performance at the graduate level.  Almost unfair.

    Has Rubio ever been tested under fire by the hate media?  Trump, Cruz, and DeSantis have passed those tests.  Maybe Abbott.  I don’t recall the media ever trying to make Rubio the most hated person in America. 

    • #102
  13. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Manny (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    Gazpacho Grande’ (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    I don’t think we owe Trump or any other politician anything. Yes, he was conspired against and treated badly, but so are a lot of politicians.

    I certainly don’t want another 4 years of Trump. The American people are owed someone better.

    Who owes it to us? Where can we collect this IOU from? Chuck Schumer?

    Don’t be facetious please. We owe it to ourselves. The Founding of this country was a miracle. Let’s vote like we appreciate this country and the incredible gift we have been granted by our citizenship. We owe it to ourselves to vote wisely. We don’t owe Trump anything.

    I think “we” collectively owe him a first term. :)

    LOL. If he does win another term with this break in between from the previous, is he term limited or does the break allow him a third term? I forget how that works.

    I think it’s a total of two terms, but I don’t feel like looking it up.  I doubt he’s going to run, and don’t think he’d be allowed to win if he did.

    • #103
  14. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    Gazpacho Grande’ (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    I don’t think we owe Trump or any other politician anything. Yes, he was conspired against and treated badly, but so are a lot of politicians.

    I certainly don’t want another 4 years of Trump. The American people are owed someone better.

    Who owes it to us? Where can we collect this IOU from? Chuck Schumer?

    Don’t be facetious please. We owe it to ourselves. The Founding of this country was a miracle. Let’s vote like we appreciate this country and the incredible gift we have been granted by our citizenship. We owe it to ourselves to vote wisely. We don’t owe Trump anything.

    I think “we” collectively owe him a first term. :)

    LOL. If he does win another term with this break in between from the previous, is he term limited or does the break allow him a third term? I forget how that works.

    I think it’s a total of two terms, but I don’t feel like looking it up. I doubt he’s going to run, and don’t think he’d be allowed to win if he did.

    I do think he’s running and if things are as today he would win in a landslide, but three years is a long way away.

    • #104
  15. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Manny (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    Gazpacho Grande’ (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    I don’t think we owe Trump or any other politician anything. Yes, he was conspired against and treated badly, but so are a lot of politicians.

    I certainly don’t want another 4 years of Trump. The American people are owed someone better.

    Who owes it to us? Where can we collect this IOU from? Chuck Schumer?

    Don’t be facetious please. We owe it to ourselves. The Founding of this country was a miracle. Let’s vote like we appreciate this country and the incredible gift we have been granted by our citizenship. We owe it to ourselves to vote wisely. We don’t owe Trump anything.

    I think “we” collectively owe him a first term. :)

    LOL. If he does win another term with this break in between from the previous, is he term limited or does the break allow him a third term? I forget how that works.

    I think it’s a total of two terms, but I don’t feel like looking it up. I doubt he’s going to run, and don’t think he’d be allowed to win if he did.

    I do think he’s running and if things are as today he would win in a landslide, but three years is a long way away.

    I don’t want to go all FJ/JG here but if he ran again, firstly, WHOO BOY! would there be a show.  Covid cases from “unvaccinated Trump supporters” would go through the roof!  And lock downs.  And there would be riots!  And there would be arrests.  I don’t who would be targeted, but there would be a dozen high-profile, videoed, SWAT assisted FBI arrests of housewives and journalists in the last few months leading up to the election.  And then Trump would come down with a fatal case of food poisoning from his polonium stew, or more likely a plane crash.

    Even Ricochet would fill up again with lefty trolls.  Does anyone think they would allow Trump to be president again?  (I’m up for it.)

    • #105
  16. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    Gazpacho Grande’ (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    I don’t think we owe Trump or any other politician anything. Yes, he was conspired against and treated badly, but so are a lot of politicians.

    I certainly don’t want another 4 years of Trump. The American people are owed someone better.

    Who owes it to us? Where can we collect this IOU from? Chuck Schumer?

    Don’t be facetious please. We owe it to ourselves. The Founding of this country was a miracle. Let’s vote like we appreciate this country and the incredible gift we have been granted by our citizenship. We owe it to ourselves to vote wisely. We don’t owe Trump anything.

    I think “we” collectively owe him a first term. :)

    LOL. If he does win another term with this break in between from the previous, is he term limited or does the break allow him a third term? I forget how that works.

    I think it’s a total of two terms, but I don’t feel like looking it up. I doubt he’s going to run, and don’t think he’d be allowed to win if he did.

    I do think he’s running and if things are as today he would win in a landslide, but three years is a long way away.

    I don’t want to go all FJ/JG here but if he ran again, firstly, WHOO BOY! would there be a show. Covid cases from “unvaccinated Trump supporters” would go through the roof! And lock downs. And there would be riots! And there would be arrests. I don’t who would be targeted, but there would be a dozen high-profile, videoed, SWAT assisted FBI arrests of housewives and journalists in the last few months leading up to the election. And then Trump would come down with a fatal case of food poisoning from his polonium stew, or more likely a plane crash.

    Even Ricochet would fill up again with lefty trolls. Does anyone think they would allow Trump to be president again? (I’m up for it.)

    A LOT depends on 2022. If Trump is running with huge majorities in both houses, things might be different. In addition, Slow Joe’s dementia is getting worse every day, his filter is off, and dealing with GOP — even GOPe — majorities will be too much for him to handle. I would expect a public breakdown from him. He’ll be on the sidelines and no one wants Kamala. Who steps in? 

    What “we” do about the idiots on our side who support Christie, Hogan, and still think it was worth what Biden is imposing on the country to get Trump out of office is the big question. 

    • #106
  17. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    Gazpacho Grande’ (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    I don’t think we owe Trump or any other politician anything. Yes, he was conspired against and treated badly, but so are a lot of politicians.

    I certainly don’t want another 4 years of Trump. The American people are owed someone better.

    Who owes it to us? Where can we collect this IOU from? Chuck Schumer?

    Don’t be facetious please. We owe it to ourselves. The Founding of this country was a miracle. Let’s vote like we appreciate this country and the incredible gift we have been granted by our citizenship. We owe it to ourselves to vote wisely. We don’t owe Trump anything.

    I think “we” collectively owe him a first term. :)

    LOL. If he does win another term with this break in between from the previous, is he term limited or does the break allow him a third term? I forget how that works.

    I think it’s a total of two terms, but I don’t feel like looking it up. I doubt he’s going to run, and don’t think he’d be allowed to win if he did.

    Yes, two terms, regardless of how they’re spaced.

    I can easily imagine President Trump winning in 2024. The margin would have to be big enough to prevent it from being stolen. If we can keep the Democrats from federalizing elections, I think there’s a decent chance that we can clean up some of what happened in 2020… if we start early. I think the nation will be hurting quite a lot within a couple of years, and ready for a change.

    (My hope is still that some other Republican runs with Trump’s endorsement.)

    • #107
  18. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    Gazpacho Grande’ (View Comment):

    Who owes it to us? Where can we collect this IOU from? Chuck Schumer?

    Don’t be facetious please. We owe it to ourselves. The Founding of this country was a miracle. Let’s vote like we appreciate this country and the incredible gift we have been granted by our citizenship. We owe it to ourselves to vote wisely. We don’t owe Trump anything.

    I think “we” collectively owe him a first term. :)

    LOL. If he does win another term with this break in between from the previous, is he term limited or does the break allow him a third term? I forget how that works.

    I think it’s a total of two terms, but I don’t feel like looking it up. I doubt he’s going to run, and don’t think he’d be allowed to win if he did.

    Yes, two terms, regardless of how they’re spaced.

    I can easily imagine President Trump winning in 2024. The margin would have to be big enough to prevent it from being stolen. If we can keep the Democrats from federalizing elections, I think there’s a decent chance that we can clean up some of what happened in 2020… if we start early. I think the nation will be hurting quite a lot within a couple of years, and ready for a change.

    (My hope is still that some other Republican runs with Trump’s endorsement.)

    I think one of the differences between our ways of thinking is that you look at things, at least in the US, as individual choices (what we drive, what we think, who we vote for, what we choose to eat) collecting into broader and broader categories of individual choices leading eventually to a group consensus of one sort or another, e.g., liberty or security, givers versus takers, or Republican or Democrat political dominance.  Whereas I see American culture as divided along these lines, I view control of the culture, politics, medical care and finances as secured by one activist group with essentially one purpose, and which dictates and fences in, often covertly, the information and the very thinking used for the individual choices we all make.

    In other words, I very much doubt that counting votes counts in determining our representatives, and even if it does, even the information, that undergirds the thinking, that precedes the individual voting is severely controlled.  And this control will only escalate in the coming next few years.

    And if at one point the consensus of thinking goes against these activists, then the barbed wire will go up again and the army will be called out again, and this will be a repeat of January of this year.

    • #108
  19. Django Member
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    Flicker (View Comment):

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    Flicker (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    Gazpacho Grande’ (View Comment):

    Who owes it to us? Where can we collect this IOU from? Chuck Schumer?

    Don’t be facetious please. We owe it to ourselves. The Founding of this country was a miracle. Let’s vote like we appreciate this country and the incredible gift we have been granted by our citizenship. We owe it to ourselves to vote wisely. We don’t owe …

    Yes, two terms, regardless of how they’re spaced.

    I can easily imagine President Trump winning in 2024. The margin would have to be big enough to prevent it from being stolen. If we can keep the Democrats from federalizing elections, I think there’s a decent chance that we can clean up some of what happened in 2020… if we start early. I think the nation will be hurting quite a lot within a couple of years, and ready for a change.

    (My hope is still that some other Republican runs with Trump’s endorsement.)

    I think one of the differences between our ways of thinking is that you look at things, at least in the US, as individual choices (what we drive, what we think, who we vote for, what we choose to eat) collecting into broader and broader categories of individual choices leading eventually to a group consensus of one sort or another, e.g., liberty or security, givers versus takers, or Republican or Democrat political dominance. Whereas I see American culture as divided along these lines, I view control of the culture, politics, medical care and finances as secured by one activist group with essentially one purpose, and which dictates and fences in, often covertly, the information and the very thinking used for the individual choices we all make.

    In other words, I very much doubt that counting votes counts in determining our representatives, and even if it does, even the information, that undergirds the thinking, that precedes the individual voting is severely controlled. And this control will only escalate in the coming next few years.

    And if at one point the consensus of thinking goes against these activists, then the barbed wire will go up again and the army will be called out again, and this will be a repeat of January of this year.

    There was a time when I was naive enough to think that the American police, sheriffs, and military would refuse to obey such orders. I was wrong. 

    • #109
  20. Manny Coolidge
    Manny
    @Manny

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Manny (View Comment):

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    OwnedByDogs (View Comment):

    I don’t think we owe Trump or any other politician anything. Yes, he was conspired against and treated badly, but so are a lot of politicians.

    I certainly don’t want another 4 years of Trump. The American people are owed someone better.

    Who owes it to us? Where can we collect this IOU from? Chuck Schumer?

    Don’t be facetious please. We owe it to ourselves. The Founding of this country was a miracle. Let’s vote like we appreciate this country and the incredible gift we have been granted by our citizenship. We owe it to ourselves to vote wisely. We don’t owe Trump anything.

    I think “we” collectively owe him a first term. :)

    LOL. If he does win another term with this break in between from the previous, is he term limited or does the break allow him a third term? I forget how that works.

    I think it’s a total of two terms, but I don’t feel like looking it up. I doubt he’s going to run, and don’t think he’d be allowed to win if he did.

    Yes, two terms, regardless of how they’re spaced.

     

    Thank you Henry. 

    • #110
  21. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Django (View Comment):
    There was a time when I was naive enough to think that the American police, sheriffs, and military would refuse to obey such orders. I was wrong. 

    The story of the Novocherkassk massacre was instructive to me.  There were Russian military officers who thought it wrong to fire on their own citizens. They were pushed aside and replaced with people who would.  People have a lot invested in their careers and it’s hard not to do what will advance them.  

     

    • #111
  22. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    There was a time when I was naive enough to think that the American police, sheriffs, and military would refuse to obey such orders. I was wrong.

    The story of the Novocherkassk massacre was instructive to me. There were Russian military officers who thought it wrong to fire on their own citizens. They were pushed aside and replaced with people who would. People have a lot invested in their careers and it’s hard not to do what will advance them.

     

    Couple that with the results of a survey from about five years ago, and you are no doubt correct. The question asked of police officers was what made them choose that career. The overwhelming answer was one word: “Pension”. 

    • #112
  23. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Django (View Comment):

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    Who owes it to us? Where can we collect this IOU from? Chuck Schumer?

    Don’t be facetious please. We owe it to ourselves. The Founding of this country was a miracle. Let’s vote like we appreciate this country and the incredible gift we have been granted by our citizenship. We owe it to ourselves to vote wisely. We don’t owe …

    Yes, two terms, regardless of how they’re spaced.

    I can easily imagine President Trump winning in 2024. The margin would have to be big enough to prevent it from being stolen. If we can keep the Democrats from federalizing elections, I think there’s a decent chance that we can clean up some of what happened in 2020… if we start early. I think the nation will be hurting quite a lot within a couple of years, and ready for a change.

    (My hope is still that some other Republican runs with Trump’s endorsement.)

    I think one of the differences between our ways of thinking is that you look at things, at least in the US, as individual choices (what we drive, what we think, who we vote for, what we choose to eat) collecting into broader and broader categories of individual choices leading eventually to a group consensus of one sort or another, e.g., liberty or security, givers versus takers, or Republican or Democrat political dominance. Whereas I see American culture as divided along these lines, I view control of the culture, politics, medical care and finances as secured by one activist group with essentially one purpose, and which dictates and fences in, often covertly, the information and the very thinking used for the individual choices we all make.

    In other words, I very much doubt that counting votes counts in determining our representatives, and even if it does, even the information, that undergirds the thinking, that precedes the individual voting is severely controlled. And this control will only escalate in the coming next few years.

    And if at one point the consensus of thinking goes against these activists, then the barbed wire will go up again and the army will be called out again, and this will be a repeat of January of this year.

    There was a time when I was naive enough to think that the American police, sheriffs, and military would refuse to obey such orders. I was wrong.

    Same here.  I once was reassured by Boss that there were enough patriotic SF guys to respond well to an increasingly lawless state.  I miss his assurances.

    • #113
  24. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    There was a time when I was naive enough to think that the American police, sheriffs, and military would refuse to obey such orders. I was wrong.

    The story of the Novocherkassk massacre was instructive to me. There were Russian military officers who thought it wrong to fire on their own citizens. They were pushed aside and replaced with people who would. People have a lot invested in their careers and it’s hard not to do what will advance them.

    We have a Ricochetto here who says as I recall it, that he would fire on massed unarmed civilians in a second of the commanding officer gave the order.

    • #114
  25. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Flicker (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    There was a time when I was naive enough to think that the American police, sheriffs, and military would refuse to obey such orders. I was wrong.

    The story of the Novocherkassk massacre was instructive to me. There were Russian military officers who thought it wrong to fire on their own citizens. They were pushed aside and replaced with people who would. People have a lot invested in their careers and it’s hard not to do what will advance them.

    We have a Ricochetto here who says as I recall it, that he would fire on massed unarmed civilians in a second of the commanding officer gave the order.

    At least he knows himself.  One problem we have in this country (especially Ricochet and conservatives) is people that really don’t understand themselves or what they will actually do.

     

    • #115
  26. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    There was a time when I was naive enough to think that the American police, sheriffs, and military would refuse to obey such orders. I was wrong.

    The story of the Novocherkassk massacre was instructive to me. There were Russian military officers who thought it wrong to fire on their own citizens. They were pushed aside and replaced with people who would. People have a lot invested in their careers and it’s hard not to do what will advance them.

    We have a Ricochetto here who says as I recall it, that he would fire on massed unarmed civilians in a second of the commanding officer gave the order.

    At least he knows himself. One problem we have in this country (especially Ricochet and conservatives) is people that really don’t understand themselves or what they will actually do.

     

    He said he’d be following orders. I think that is commonly called the Nuremburg Defense. 

    • #116
  27. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

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    Django (View Comment):
    There was a time when I was naive enough to think that the American police, sheriffs, and military would refuse to obey such orders. I was wrong.

    The story of the Novocherkassk massacre was instructive to me. There were Russian military officers who thought it wrong to fire on their own citizens. They were pushed aside and replaced with people who would. People have a lot invested in their careers and it’s hard not to do what will advance them.

    We have a Ricochetto here who says as I recall it, that he would fire on massed unarmed civilians in a second of the commanding officer gave the order.

    At least he knows himself. One problem we have in this country (especially Ricochet and conservatives) is people that really don’t understand themselves or what they will actually do.

    And many heroes act without regard to planning or premeditation.  I don’t think self-awareness is in itself necessarily a good thing.

    • #117
  28. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Django (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    There was a time when I was naive enough to think that the American police, sheriffs, and military would refuse to obey such orders. I was wrong.

    The story of the Novocherkassk massacre was instructive to me. There were Russian military officers who thought it wrong to fire on their own citizens. They were pushed aside and replaced with people who would. People have a lot invested in their careers and it’s hard not to do what will advance them.

    We have a Ricochetto here who says as I recall it, that he would fire on massed unarmed civilians in a second of the commanding officer gave the order.

    At least he knows himself. One problem we have in this country (especially Ricochet and conservatives) is people that really don’t understand themselves or what they will actually do.

    He said he’d be following orders. I think that is commonly called the Nuremburg Defense.

    Maybe I shouldn’t have brought it up.  I’m not military, so I don’t know how orders are mentally processed in the potentially fractions of a second it takes to carry them out.  But this attitude, no matter how prevalent it is, does pit the at least portions of the military against the population that it supposedly serves.

    • #118
  29. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Flicker (View Comment):

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    Django (View Comment):
    There was a time when I was naive enough to think that the American police, sheriffs, and military would refuse to obey such orders. I was wrong.

    The story of the Novocherkassk massacre was instructive to me. There were Russian military officers who thought it wrong to fire on their own citizens. They were pushed aside and replaced with people who would. People have a lot invested in their careers and it’s hard not to do what will advance them.

    We have a Ricochetto here who says as I recall it, that he would fire on massed unarmed civilians in a second of the commanding officer gave the order.

    At least he knows himself. One problem we have in this country (especially Ricochet and conservatives) is people that really don’t understand themselves or what they will actually do.

    He said he’d be following orders. I think that is commonly called the Nuremburg Defense.

    Maybe I shouldn’t have brought it up. I’m not military, so I don’t know how orders are mentally processed in the potentially fractions of a second it takes to carry them out. But this attitude, no matter how prevalent it is, does pit the at least portions of the military against the population that it supposedly serves.

    You should have. It is good to know where we all stand. Regardless of split-second responses to commands, one would have plenty of time to consider where he/she was going, and who the opposition would be. I suspect that the reaction would be, roughly: I won’t have to actually shoot my fellow citizens, so I’ll go along. When ordered to …?

    • #119
  30. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Fake John/Jane Galt (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):
    There was a time when I was naive enough to think that the American police, sheriffs, and military would refuse to obey such orders. I was wrong.

    The story of the Novocherkassk massacre was instructive to me. There were Russian military officers who thought it wrong to fire on their own citizens. They were pushed aside and replaced with people who would. People have a lot invested in their careers and it’s hard not to do what will advance them.

    We have a Ricochetto here who says as I recall it, that he would fire on massed unarmed civilians in a second of the commanding officer gave the order.

    At least he knows himself. One problem we have in this country (especially Ricochet and conservatives) is people that really don’t understand themselves or what they will actually do.

    And many heroes act without regard to planning or premeditation. I don’t think self-awareness is in itself necessarily a good thing.

    Yes and no.  I tend to act more morally than I think I will.  Most seem to do the opposite from what I can tell.  The thing is most people view themselves as heroic that will make a stand against tyranny.  Truth is that most will step back and watch it happen the second most will grab a torch and help burn or pick up a gun and start executing.  

    • #120
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