I Have Questions

 

Twitter is revelatory. The general population has probably always had a stupid streak, but Twitter makes it possible for ignorance to light itself on fire and burn so brightly it overwhelms the sun.

Reading the rants about the Kyle Rittenhouse trial is something else. First, there seems to be a large segment of the population who thinks the prosecution is doing a good job. Now, granted, I just catch the “lowlights,” but from what I have seen, Assistant District Attorney Thomas Binger has been surprised way too many times by his own witnesses.

Second, the “conventional wisdom” about the law is astoundingly bad. I mean, most people commenting on the trial would be confused watching a Matlock rerun. I could be a very rich man if I could collect a dollar from everyone who assured their fellow progressives that, no matter what, the prosecution will eventually win on appeal. That’s how bad civics education is. How the hell do that many people believe an acquittal can be appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court?

And the comments about the presiding judge, Bruce Schroeder, are something else, too. Local attorneys describe him as fair but willing to be combative. My theory, which would be easy to prove or disprove with the proper resources, is that this is not the first time this judge has witnessed this prosecutor’s ineptitude. But no journalist seems even remotely interested in any backstory between them. The media loves the clips of Schroeder’s admonitions, but doesn’t go out of their way to make clear that he makes sure the jury is out of the room when he does it.

Rittenhouse will probably be convicted on the gun charge. There is no doubt that he was underage and outside the home with a firearm. The man who supplied the weapon is probably in more trouble than the person who fired it. There is a persistent belief that Rittenhouse, who lives in Antioch, IL, carried the rifle across state lines into Wisconsin. He did not. And even if he did, there is no Federal law against that. (States have their own transport regulations but anything interstate would be the jurisdiction of the Feds.)

But one never knows how a jury will rule. Especially one that feels intimidated. The political pressure has been huge, which is why in so many of these cases overcharging has become the norm. The DA feels the heat, the jury feels the heat, and so does the judge. My only hope is that the jury is more informed than the folks on Twitter.

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  1. DonG (CAGW is a hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a hoax)
    @DonG

    Stina (View Comment):

    And what’s with the disparaging treatment of First Aid? It’s supposed to be an initial life saving measure for when medics can’t be there immediately. Why teach it if it’s pointless? I don’t need First Aid lessons on how to put a bandaid on a booboo. And yet we offer them and there’s a certification process and everything.

    Rittenhouse was a professional lifeguard with additional medical training.   Why doesn’t the media refer to him a “lifeguard” or “medical volunteer”?   Because they are Marxists and want to be racially divisive and demoralize people that care about their communities.  

    • #421
  2. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    Easy way to not be in his situation: Don’t violate curfew orders and go into a riot with a rifle.

    If the 2nd Amendments means we have to allow minors to carry guns into riots, then I’m against it. But then I don’t think it does.

    Spare me. The curfew is irrelevant because it wasn’t being enforced. Again, a failure of the state. Let the whole thing burn, right? Who cares? And the riot found Kyle.

    Rosenbaum being unarmed is also irrelevant. A rampaging pedophile who is setting things on fire near GAS STATIONS and literally threatening murder is a threat, armed or not. That’s not exactly the kind of person I’m going to start small talk with if I run into them on the street. But he can’t be a threat because no gun, ammirite? I guess the other scumbag wasn’t armed either? Because swinging a skateboard at someone’s face in no way could cause fatal injuries. They all deserved to be shot armed or not. Two and a half less.

    I’ll say forthe millionth time that I think Kyle was justified in his self-defense in the moment. I guess I’ll say it for the million and first time. I’ve also said many times that I have no sympathy for the guys who got shot. You go out into a riot and create mayhem, then you accept the consequences, including getting shot by a teenager.

    But neither do I think Kyle was a hero. He had vastly more firepower than anyone attacking him. He was able to take out an unarmed guy, a guy with a skateboard, and a guy with a pistol with his AR-15. Well, I’d hope so. I’ll say for the millionth and second time: He was justified in doing so. Doesn’t make him a hero. Especially as I think he was simply lucky that no one else was hit by his bullets.

    I’m still with Kyle’s mom: He shouldn’t have been there. Minors should stay indoors during riots. And I’ve never said “let it burn.” Property owners should defend their property.If the property owners in Kenosha choose to defend their property because the cops won’t, good for them. If they choose not to, that’s their choice. I’ll defend my property and family if necessary. Any high schoolers out there who want to be heroes and come defend my property without my invitation, tell them to stay home.

     

    I get all your points and they are substantial. There is just this: Kyle was 17, not 13 or 14. When our country has been attacked, it is not unusual for many young men of his age to attempt enlisting, and some succeed. When the rioting, burning, killing mob numbers in the hundreds, one often needs help in protecting his property.

    • #422
  3. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    BDB (View Comment):

    Buckpasser (View Comment):
    But I’m not going to go into the next town looking to confront Antifa with a shotgun if they start some dumpster fires.

    I might.

    The problem is that most, if not all, of those dumpster fire starters in the town down the road came from somewhere else, perhaps far away. The enemy has no problem traveling to start wars. We need to think of this as war and be willing to engage beyond our front yards. That is only if the police refuse to do their jobs…or the National Guard.

    • #423
  4. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    I am cowardly when it comes to physical confrontations. If it’s “fight or flight,” I’m probably going to flight. 

    My son is different from me. At school he stood up to bullies harassing a Muslim girl because of her style of clothing. He protected smaller boys at the school bus stop. He went out on snowy nights to help pull stuck cars out of ditches. That interest in “doing something” led him to pursue his current career in the U.S. Air Force (he is now 33 years old). So I recognize some of the characteristics that might lead a person like Mr. Rittenhouse to want to help defend the people and property of Kenosha. I have heard that he was trained as a pool lifeguard, that he had taken first aid training, and that he participated in a police Explorers program. I think I read that he has family in Kenosha, so Kenosha’s not just some random place to him. 

    I understand the nuances that end up in the law and the details of a claim of “self-defense.” But I do not like the idea of details getting so burdensome that we discourage the boys and young men who have an urge to protect others from taking action to do so. 

    What I would do in many situations is different from what my son would do. I had to learn before criticizing some of the things my son did that I had solid broadly applicable reasons, and that I wasn’t just criticizing him because I would have done something different. 

    • #424
  5. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    And another thing, conservatives should be 100% behind Kyle because we no longer live in a society of laws.

    Things really aren’t that bad.

    Amen.

    If things do get that bad, I can blame all the “reasonable” conservatives who will have moved the goal posts.

    • #425
  6. James Salerno Inactive
    James Salerno
    @JamesSalerno

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Despite the failure of the authorities, Mr. Rittenhouse was not obligated to enter the fray.

    This is where you lose me.

     

    It used to be considered a sign of good citizenship to step in and hold the line when the authorities failed.

    What the hell happened to us?

     

    Not that many years ago the public was horrified when people just stood around while some victim was being attacked. (Despite what I am told the law is in Wisconsin, I do not see much if any moral distinction between attacks on property and attacks on persons, as that property represents someone’s personal time and energy (life) in creating or acquiring that property.)

    The “Kitty Genovese Effect.”

    • #426
  7. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    Despite the failure of the authorities, Mr. Rittenhouse was not obligated to enter the fray.

    This is where you lose me.

     

    It used to be considered a sign of good citizenship to step in and hold the line when the authorities failed.

    What the hell happened to us?

     

    Not that many years ago the public was horrified when people just stood around while some victim was being attacked. (Despite what I am told the law is in Wisconsin, I do not see much if any moral distinction between attacks on property and attacks on persons, as that property represents someone’s personal time and energy (life) in creating or acquiring that property.)

    The “Kitty Genovese Effect.”

    More recently, the assault/rape-on-the-NYC-subway effect.

    • #427
  8. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    And another thing, conservatives should be 100% behind Kyle because we no longer live in a society of laws.

    Things really aren’t that bad.

    Amen.

    If things do get that bad, I can blame all the “reasonable” conservatives who will have moved the goal posts.

    That’s perfectly fair, Stina.

    On a similar note, I have friends who are terribly worried about climate change, and who will be perfectly happy to blame me when and if the planet becomes uninhabitable because my Yukon belches too much carbon.

    The burden of being the guy who says the sky isn’t falling….

    • #428
  9. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    And another thing, conservatives should be 100% behind Kyle because we no longer live in a society of laws.

    Things really aren’t that bad.

    Amen.

    If things do get that bad, I can blame all the “reasonable” conservatives who will have moved the goal posts.

    That’s perfectly fair, Stina.

    On a similar note, I have friends who are terribly worried about climate change, and who will be perfectly happy to blame me when and if the planet becomes uninhabitable because my Yukon belches too much carbon.

    The burden of being the guy who says the sky isn’t falling….

    The difference between your GW friends and the people here saying we are losing the plot is that the planet has survived dozens of warming a cooling periods through its existence, even in human times.

    We have history on our side that shows how civilizations can be lost and what comes of them in the decline.

    (Stolen from VtK)

    Tytler further states: “Patriotism always exists in the greatest degree in rude nations, and in an early period of society. Like all other affections and passions, it operates with the greatest force where it meets with the greatest difficulties … but in a state of ease and safety, as if wanting its appropriate nourishment, it languishes and decays”. … “It is a law of nature to which no experience has ever furnished an exception, that the rising grandeur and opulence of a nation must be balanced by the decline of its heroic virtues”.

    Forgive me for wanting to forestall that collapse a bit longer. Currently, our country is not acquitting itself well to the test of time. Other nations have survived longer.

    • #429
  10. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    And another thing, conservatives should be 100% behind Kyle because we no longer live in a society of laws.

    Things really aren’t that bad.

    Amen.

    If things do get that bad, I can blame all the “reasonable” conservatives who will have moved the goal posts.

    That’s perfectly fair, Stina.

    On a similar note, I have friends who are terribly worried about climate change, and who will be perfectly happy to blame me when and if the planet becomes uninhabitable because my Yukon belches too much carbon.

    The burden of being the guy who says the sky isn’t falling….

    It’s not that we don’t have laws.  It’s just that different groups in society today live under different sets of laws.  

    For example, both Kyle Rittenhouse and George Zimmerman (a “white Hispanic“ according to the New York Times) were charged with murder in cases that were actually open-and-shut self-defense.   A white couple was prosecuted for “brandishing” their firearms, while the BLM marchers who smashed open their gate to invade their property were not prosecuted.

    Hunter Biden and Hillary Clinton can commit as many felonies as they want and remain unindicted.  On the other hand, when the Trump Justice Department tried to drop charges against Gen. Mike Flynn, the progressive judge took the unprecedented step of not permitting the charges to be dropped.

     

    • #430
  11. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Taras (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    And another thing, conservatives should be 100% behind Kyle because we no longer live in a society of laws.

    Things really aren’t that bad.

    Amen.

    If things do get that bad, I can blame all the “reasonable” conservatives who will have moved the goal posts.

    That’s perfectly fair, Stina.

    On a similar note, I have friends who are terribly worried about climate change, and who will be perfectly happy to blame me when and if the planet becomes uninhabitable because my Yukon belches too much carbon.

    The burden of being the guy who says the sky isn’t falling….

    It’s not that we don’t have laws. It’s just that different groups in society today live under different sets of laws.

    For example, both Kyle Rittenhouse and George Zimmerman (a “white Hispanic“ according to the New York Times) were charged with murder in cases that were actually open-and-shut self-defense. A white couple was prosecuted for “brandishing” their firearms, while the BLM marchers who smashed open their gate to invade their property were not prosecuted.

    Hunter Biden and Hillary Clinton can commit as many felonies as they want and remain unindicted. On the other hand, when the Trump Justice Department tried to drop charges against Gen. Mike Flynn, the progressive judge took the unprecedented step of not permitting the charges to be dropped.

    This.

    • #431
  12. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    And another thing, conservatives should be 100% behind Kyle because we no longer live in a society of laws.

    Things really aren’t that bad.

    Amen.

    If things do get that bad, I can blame all the “reasonable” conservatives who will have moved the goal posts.

    That’s perfectly fair, Stina.

    On a similar note, I have friends who are terribly worried about climate change, and who will be perfectly happy to blame me when and if the planet becomes uninhabitable because my Yukon belches too much carbon.

    The burden of being the guy who says the sky isn’t falling….

    It’s not that we don’t have laws. It’s just that different groups in society today live under different sets of laws.

    For example, both Kyle Rittenhouse and George Zimmerman (a “white Hispanic“ according to the New York Times) were charged with murder in cases that were actually open-and-shut self-defense. A white couple was prosecuted for “brandishing” their firearms, while the BLM marchers who smashed open their gate to invade their property were not prosecuted.

    Hunter Biden and Hillary Clinton can commit as many felonies as they want and remain unindicted. On the other hand, when the Trump Justice Department tried to drop charges against Gen. Mike Flynn, the progressive judge took the unprecedented step of not permitting the charges to be dropped.

    This.

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    • #432
  13. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    What the law says is no longer the final word. Rather, we must interpret laws through various identity group lenses or bring in other factors. One’s identity group is the final word, for example, not the law. Hence, we are not a society of laws.

    • #433
  14. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    And another thing, conservatives should be 100% behind Kyle because we no longer live in a society of laws.

    Things really aren’t that bad.

    Amen.

    If things do get that bad, I can blame all the “reasonable” conservatives who will have moved the goal posts.

    That’s perfectly fair, Stina.

    On a similar note, I have friends who are terribly worried about climate change, and who will be perfectly happy to blame me when and if the planet becomes uninhabitable because my Yukon belches too much carbon.

    The burden of being the guy who says the sky isn’t falling….

    It’s not that we don’t have laws. It’s just that different groups in society today live under different sets of laws.

    For example, both Kyle Rittenhouse and George Zimmerman (a “white Hispanic“ according to the New York Times) were charged with murder in cases that were actually open-and-shut self-defense. A white couple was prosecuted for “brandishing” their firearms, while the BLM marchers who smashed open their gate to invade their property were not prosecuted.

    Hunter Biden and Hillary Clinton can commit as many felonies as they want and remain unindicted. On the other hand, when the Trump Justice Department tried to drop charges against Gen. Mike Flynn, the progressive judge took the unprecedented step of not permitting the charges to be dropped.

    This.

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    The Soviet Union had lots of noble-sounding laws. The chief problem was that the laws were interpreted and applied to mean whatever the Party wanted. The Democratic Party has moved us partway down that road, too.

    • #434
  15. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    What the law says is no longer the final word. Rather, we must interpret laws through various identity group lenses or bring in other factors. One’s identity group is the final word, for example, not the law. Hence, we are not a society of laws.

    We talk about identitarianism a lot — as we should: it’s a huge cultural problem.

    But, while I can think of lots of examples of laws with which I have to comply and routinely do, I’m having a hard time seeing how any of them are refracted through the lens of group identity. Maybe you and others deal with that sort of thing all the time. I don’t. (Honestly, I don’t think you do, either, but I really can’t say.)

    • #435
  16. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Taras (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    James Salerno (View Comment):

    And another thing, conservatives should be 100% behind Kyle because we no longer live in a society of laws.

    Things really aren’t that bad.

    Amen.

    If things do get that bad, I can blame all the “reasonable” conservatives who will have moved the goal posts.

    That’s perfectly fair, Stina.

    On a similar note, I have friends who are terribly worried about climate change, and who will be perfectly happy to blame me when and if the planet becomes uninhabitable because my Yukon belches too much carbon.

    The burden of being the guy who says the sky isn’t falling….

    It’s not that we don’t have laws. It’s just that different groups in society today live under different sets of laws.

    For example, both Kyle Rittenhouse and George Zimmerman (a “white Hispanic“ according to the New York Times) were charged with murder in cases that were actually open-and-shut self-defense. A white couple was prosecuted for “brandishing” their firearms, while the BLM marchers who smashed open their gate to invade their property were not prosecuted.

    Hunter Biden and Hillary Clinton can commit as many felonies as they want and remain unindicted. On the other hand, when the Trump Justice Department tried to drop charges against Gen. Mike Flynn, the progressive judge took the unprecedented step of not permitting the charges to be dropped.

    This.

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    The Soviet Union had lots of noble-sounding laws. The chief problem was that the laws were interpreted and applied to mean whatever the Party wanted. The Democratic Party has moved us partway down that road, too.

    You had me at “partway,” Paul. I agree with that characterization.

    • #436
  17. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    What the law says is no longer the final word. Rather, we must interpret laws through various identity group lenses or bring in other factors. One’s identity group is the final word, for example, not the law. Hence, we are not a society of laws.

    We talk about identitarianism a lot — as we should: it’s a huge cultural problem.

    But, while I can think of lots of examples of laws with which I have to comply and routinely do, I’m having a hard time seeing how any of them are refracted through the lens of group identity. Maybe you and others deal with that sort of thing all the time. I don’t. (Honestly, I don’t think you do, either, but I really can’t say.)

    How about a simple formulation such as “BLM rioters who attack people and burn buildings?  Not prosecuted.  People who shoot BLM rioters who are attacking them, in self-defense?  Up against the wall!”

    • #437
  18. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    What the law says is no longer the final word. Rather, we must interpret laws through various identity group lenses or bring in other factors. One’s identity group is the final word, for example, not the law. Hence, we are not a society of laws.

    We talk about identitarianism a lot — as we should: it’s a huge cultural problem.

    But, while I can think of lots of examples of laws with which I have to comply and routinely do, I’m having a hard time seeing how any of them are refracted through the lens of group identity. Maybe you and others deal with that sort of thing all the time. I don’t. (Honestly, I don’t think you do, either, but I really can’t say.)

    How about a simple formulation such as “BLM rioters who attack people and burn buildings? Not prosecuted. People who shoot BLM rioters who are attacking them, in self-defense? Up against the wall!”

    Hey, it’s the law, man.

    • #438
  19. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    What the law says is no longer the final word. Rather, we must interpret laws through various identity group lenses or bring in other factors. One’s identity group is the final word, for example, not the law. Hence, we are not a society of laws.

    We talk about identitarianism a lot — as we should: it’s a huge cultural problem.

    But, while I can think of lots of examples of laws with which I have to comply and routinely do, I’m having a hard time seeing how any of them are refracted through the lens of group identity. Maybe you and others deal with that sort of thing all the time. I don’t. (Honestly, I don’t think you do, either, but I really can’t say.)

    How about a simple formulation such as “BLM rioters who attack people and burn buildings? Not prosecuted. People who shoot BLM rioters who are attacking them, in self-defense? Up against the wall!”

    I think there’s some goalpost moving going on there, KE. I’m not arguing that there aren’t instances of lawlessness in our society. One can go to our southern border and watch the law being casually ignored. Or check out a Hunter Biden art show and see the same.

    But I don’t live in anarchy, and I suspect that few Ricochet members actually live in it either. I’m not defending the abuse of law, just observing that it’s a silly exaggeration to declare America no longer “a society of laws.”

    • #439
  20. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    What the law says is no longer the final word. Rather, we must interpret laws through various identity group lenses or bring in other factors. One’s identity group is the final word, for example, not the law. Hence, we are not a society of laws.

    We talk about identitarianism a lot — as we should: it’s a huge cultural problem.

    But, while I can think of lots of examples of laws with which I have to comply and routinely do, I’m having a hard time seeing how any of them are refracted through the lens of group identity. Maybe you and others deal with that sort of thing all the time. I don’t. (Honestly, I don’t think you do, either, but I really can’t say.)

    How about a simple formulation such as “BLM rioters who attack people and burn buildings? Not prosecuted. People who shoot BLM rioters who are attacking them, in self-defense? Up against the wall!”

    I think there’s some goalpost moving going on there, KE. I’m not arguing that there aren’t instances of lawlessness in our society. One can go to our southern border and watch the law being casually ignored. Or check out a Hunter Biden art show and see the same.

    But I don’t live in anarchy, and I suspect that few Ricochet members actually live in it either. I’m not defending the abuse of law, just observing that it’s a silly exaggeration to declare America no longer “a society of laws.”

    You may not be interested in living in anarchy, but anarchy is interested in making you live in it.

    • #440
  21. D.A. Venters Inactive
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    What the law says is no longer the final word. Rather, we must interpret laws through various identity group lenses or bring in other factors. One’s identity group is the final word, for example, not the law. Hence, we are not a society of laws.

    We talk about identitarianism a lot — as we should: it’s a huge cultural problem.

    But, while I can think of lots of examples of laws with which I have to comply and routinely do, I’m having a hard time seeing how any of them are refracted through the lens of group identity. Maybe you and others deal with that sort of thing all the time. I don’t. (Honestly, I don’t think you do, either, but I really can’t say.)

    How about a simple formulation such as “BLM rioters who attack people and burn buildings? Not prosecuted. People who shoot BLM rioters who are attacking them, in self-defense? Up against the wall!”

    This has become one of these myths that takes a smidgen of truth and blows it out of proportion and then it becomes an unquestioned fact.  Certain local prosecutors, I believe, went easy on some of the BLM protestors, but that news has morphed into the belief that none of them were ever prosecuted, which is untrue.  Here is an AP article discussing this, describing federal court convictions of BLM protestors.  Keep in mind, this article just describes federal court.  State courts have prosecuted many more.  How many BLM rioters got away with it?  I have no idea, but of course many did.  Charging and prosecuting all of them would be impossible.  That doesn’t mean their conduct was condoned. 

    • #441
  22. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    What the law says is no longer the final word. Rather, we must interpret laws through various identity group lenses or bring in other factors. One’s identity group is the final word, for example, not the law. Hence, we are not a society of laws.

    We talk about identitarianism a lot — as we should: it’s a huge cultural problem.

    But, while I can think of lots of examples of laws with which I have to comply and routinely do, I’m having a hard time seeing how any of them are refracted through the lens of group identity. Maybe you and others deal with that sort of thing all the time. I don’t. (Honestly, I don’t think you do, either, but I really can’t say.)

    How about a simple formulation such as “BLM rioters who attack people and burn buildings? Not prosecuted. People who shoot BLM rioters who are attacking them, in self-defense? Up against the wall!”

    I think there’s some goalpost moving going on there, KE. I’m not arguing that there aren’t instances of lawlessness in our society. One can go to our southern border and watch the law being casually ignored. Or check out a Hunter Biden art show and see the same.

    But I don’t live in anarchy, and I suspect that few Ricochet members actually live in it either. I’m not defending the abuse of law, just observing that it’s a silly exaggeration to declare America no longer “a society of laws.”

    You may not be interested in living in anarchy, but anarchy is interested in making you live in it.

    KE, if the left were interested in mere anarchy, I’d feel better about it. I am in some respects the kind of person for whom society creates laws to keep in check: I’m not as worried about having too few laws as I am about having too many.

    • #442
  23. Taras Coolidge
    Taras
    @Taras

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Henry Racette (View Comment):

    I’d just encourage everyone to pay attention to the statement that prompted this digression:

    “we no longer live in a society of laws”

    That is, I think, ridiculous hyperbole. Yes, laws are applied unevenly. Yes, laws are sometimes ignored. But we are far from a lawless society.

    What the law says is no longer the final word. Rather, we must interpret laws through various identity group lenses or bring in other factors. One’s identity group is the final word, for example, not the law. Hence, we are not a society of laws.

    We talk about identitarianism a lot — as we should: it’s a huge cultural problem.

    But, while I can think of lots of examples of laws with which I have to comply and routinely do, I’m having a hard time seeing how any of them are refracted through the lens of group identity. Maybe you and others deal with that sort of thing all the time. I don’t. (Honestly, I don’t think you do, either, but I really can’t say.)

    How about a simple formulation such as “BLM rioters who attack people and burn buildings? Not prosecuted. People who shoot BLM rioters who are attacking them, in self-defense? Up against the wall!”

    This has become one of these myths that takes a smidgen of truth and blows it out of proportion and then it becomes an unquestioned fact. Certain local prosecutors, I believe, went easy on some of the BLM protestors, but that news has morphed into the belief that none of them were ever prosecuted, which is untrue. Here is an AP article discussing this, describing federal court convictions of BLM protestors. Keep in mind, this article just describes federal court. State courts have prosecuted many more. How many BLM rioters got away with it? I have no idea, but of course many did. Charging and prosecuting all of them would be impossible. That doesn’t mean their conduct was condoned.

    The most obvious case of different laws is how BLM rioters are treated vs. the January 6 crowd.

    As I recall the number of people prosecuted from that single event and from 600+ riots is about the same.

    • #443
  24. BDB Inactive
    BDB
    @BDB

    The evidence that BLM/Antifa and conservatives are treated differently by the government is the duration (of many individual events), the extended timescale (many events over a long time), and the widespread geographic distribution of BLM/Antifa events.  Also, the conscious decisions confirmed in numerous public statements — from officials up and down the chain in numerous jurisdictions — for police to stand down or “give room”, to drop prosecutions, to undercharge, to half-step bail requirements.  I don’t have the facts on file.  I remember it happening.

    The government media complex will not stand up to Islamists because the Islamists will cut their heads off.  They won;t stand up to leftists because (if no other reasons come to mind), the leftists will burn your office down and stalk your children.

    Effective political violence is now the norm in the US.  I didn’t say I like it.  I’m just saying it’s true.

    • #444
  25. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    BDB (View Comment):
    Effective political violence is now the norm in the US.

    I’d dispute both “effective” and “norm” in that comment. Beyond that, I’m probably in agreement.

    • #445
  26. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    BDB (View Comment):
    They won’t stand up to leftists because (if no other reasons come to mind), the leftists will burn your office down and stalk your children.

    I think it’s pretty clear that most of them at minimum sympathize with BLM/Antifa: They’re good thugs, don’t you see.

    • #446
  27. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):

    Stina (View Comment):

    And what’s with the disparaging treatment of First Aid? It’s supposed to be an initial life saving measure for when medics can’t be there immediately. Why teach it if it’s pointless? I don’t need First Aid lessons on how to put a bandaid on a booboo. And yet we offer them and there’s a certification process SNIP

    The message seems to be that anarchy is now the name of a game we should all respect, and we can pinky finger promise ourselves that we will all do the best we can to not live in a neighborhood that will ever be targeted by the anarchists.

    There is not a moral equivalence between someone who is a victim of a riot and someone who travels to a riot not as part of an organized force, but as an individual, somehow believing that an individual has any sway whatsoever to a riot. That’s not how riots work. To respond to a riot, you have to have a united, disciplined force that can sweep rioters from the streets. Running around by yourself with a fire extinguisher is idiotic. People who start fires don’t want them put out, and one person trying to do that has put himself in grave peril. Riots are very, very dangerous, and such a lone actor will only worsen the riot. Case in point, Kyle was attacked and had to kill two and maim one person to save himself. I’m all for the killing, but the fact is that his presence and participation in the chaos of the riot contributed to a worse riot.

    You know what you call one guy taking it upon himself to putting out fires and winding up killing two rioters?

    A good start.

    What a great reply!

    From what I have seen regarding the tactics of these Leftist thugs, when they are not participating in riots, they are on their own mean streets, body slamming elderly white women using walkers into oncoming traffic in NYC.

    With the media blaring out that young people only need to be upset about something, anything,  to destroy property and injure any who oppose them, our nation could easily become one ruled by mob rule. In some areas of the US, that has already occurred.

    Each week I call one of my spouse’s elderly clients in the Bronx. She no longer leaves her apartment, as since late Spring 2020, the violence outside her place has been over the top. Three women raped in daylight hours in the park across the way from her. Knifings and worse to get somebody’s bookbag or laptop.

    Sure there was occasional crime in her community prior to Spring 2020.  But since the media’s narrative supporting thuggery went out across the air waves, it has escalated at exponential proportions to what it was before.

    • #447
  28. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
    Sure there was occasional crime in her community prior to Spring 2020.  But since the media’s narrative supporting thuggery went out across the air waves, it has escalated at exponential proportions to what it was before.

    Good people living in terror is a Small Price to Pay for “social justice”.

    • #448
  29. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill (View Comment):
    Sure there was occasional crime in her community prior to Spring 2020. But since the media’s narrative supporting thuggery went out across the air waves, it has escalated at exponential proportions to what it was before.

    Good people living in terror is a Small Price to Pay for “social justice”.

    Share the dread.

    • #449
  30. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned it before, but apparently the “dangerous weapon” charge was dropped because the law only applies to “short-barrel” weapons and the AR-15 that KR had was not short-barrel.

    • #450
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