Letter from Washington Jail

 

The following is a letter, apparently from Nathan DeGrave, who is a political prisoner being held at a jail in Washington, DC. He has not been convicted of any crime, but he says he has been held for over nine months because he entered the US Capitol, along with a film crew, through, he says, an open door, while making a documentary film on January 6.

The letter, released October 29 via the Twitter account of a criminal defense attorney named Brad Geyer, contains disturbing allegations about the inhuman conditions experienced by prisoners in the facility, including physical and mental abuse by Department of Corrections Officials. Some of DeGrave’s allegations seem to have been confirmed already by the US Marshal Service, which, according to the Washington Post, recently conducted an investigation that found “unacceptable conditions” at the jail. The US Marshals are now moving 400 federal inmates to a different facility in Pennsylvania. But not the January 6 political prisoners.

DeGrave’s letter:

Dear fellow Americans:

I never thought I’d write a letter like this, but we’re living in very different times. This is my cry for help.

My name is Nathan DeGrave, and as a non violent participant at the Jan 6th rally, I’ve spent the last 9 months detained as a political prisoner in pod C2B at the DC Department of Corrections (DOC) otherwise known as DC’s Gitmo.

The conditions here for Jan 6ers have been inhumane. In fact, some inmates are even begging to be transferred to GUANTANAMO BAY, where even THEY have more acceptable standards.

Class action LAWSUITS are being filed against this prison; and even the ACLU has gotten involved. [Representatives] Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene have since attempted to gain access to this facility and inspect the conditions of the jail, only to be denied.  The vile filth of what has become our daily life is being illegally HIDDEN from the members of OUR OWN CONGRESS.

So let me tell you about what me and many of the other Jan 6ers have been experiencing in DC’s Gitmo. It is my hope that with MEDIA EXPOSURE and the awareness of the American public, that SOMETHING may be done and this never happens to anyone ever again.

OUR CONDITIONS – For the first 120 days in DC’s Gitmo, Jan 6ers experienced DAILY LOCKDOWNS for 23-24 HOURS before being allowed to leave our small 120 sq. ft cell. The PHYSICAL and MENTAL ANGUISH that results from this kind of SEVERE ISOLATION has caused many people to go on a RAPID mental decline.

As a result, a large percentage of us are HEAVILY MEDICATED with anti-anxiety and anti-depressant drugs, which helps to cope with the psychological and mental ABUSE we endure.

Many times, the little rec we DO receive is STRIPPED AWAY if our cell isn’t up to the standards of the guard on duty. This changes from day to day. Jan 6ers have lost rec time and out of cell activity ANY TIME news interviews about the jail are aired on TV, people speak up about our conditions, or rallies are held in our name. We’ll probably have a lockdown upon the publishing of this letter. So I have already warned those I know in advance.

Masks are WEAPONIZED and used against us, even though we NEVER leave the facility. Officers have walked in with the SOLE INTENTION of needing to write 20-30 disciplinary reports against Jan 6ers, which adversely effects our chances of release and causes loss of privileges, phone time and commissary. Masks need to be covering both the nose and mouth AT ALL TIMES or we are threatened and locked down in our cells. Jan 6ers are always respectful to the employees around us, but CO’s maintain the need to invent reasons for discipline.

PRIVILEGED LEGAL DOCUMENTS have been CONFISCATED and gone missing from various cells, and HIGHLY SENSITIVE discovery (video evidence under attorney/client privilege) is watched by employees during our legal calls.

Jordan Mink, for example, had all discovery TAKEN by ERT officers on August 23rd despite the objection of his attorney. They handcuffed him, searched his room, and then proceeded to take all video evidence in his possession. Additionally, legal visits take 2-3 WEEKS or more to be scheduled, leaving little time to discuss our defense and prepare for trial.

The EXTREME medical neglect in this facility has caused a variety of adverse illnesses and disease. Some show signs of scurvy. And some even have Covid like symptoms, but medical personnel have refused to treat it.

Christopher Worrell, for example, is an inmate with Cancer, who also broke his hand in prison and requires surgery. Both have been completely ignored. Federal judge Royce Lamberth got to the point where on October 12th, he filed contempt of court charges against the warden of the DC DOC, claiming that Worrell’s civil rights have been violated, and demanding the U.S attorney general inquire further about his and other possible violations.

Another inmate, Peter Stager, WAITED FOUR MONTHS to receive his CPAP breathing machine, and has needed an MRI since spring, which has also been ignored by staff.

The harsh, unlivable conditions of our unit has caused health hazards that defy Department of Health regulations. And on at least five occasions, RAW SEWAGE has overflowed our unit, causing human fecal matter to flood the floors and rooms. That’s also in addition to the MOLD on cell walls, as well as the rusty pipes, and DIRTY WATER that flows from these sinks. White rags TURN BROWN when exposed to the water from our faucets.

We are undergoing SEVERE NUTRITIONAL DEFICIENCIES and STARVATION. For breakfast this morning, I received a tray of flavorless paste, two slices of bread, and a slice of bologna. Lunches usually consist of rice and beans, but we’ll get cold chicken/beef patties if we are lucky. For dinner, we are sometimes fed a diet of cheese sandwiches, and bologna and cheese 4 to 5 times per week.

Without commissary, people like myself are FORCED TO STARVE. I suffer from HEADACHES and NAUSEA on an almost REGULAR BASIS from the malnutrition and constant hunger I am subjected to. I have lost ALMOST 15 POUNDS since I’ve been detained.

Our rights to personal hygiene are also totally neglected. Razors are PROHIBITED, and inmates are forced to either go unshaved and grow long beards, or use a razor free cream that BURNS and IRRITATES the skin. But many other jails have allowed the use of razors without incident. Haircuts are also PROHIBITED from unvaccinated inmates.

For me, it’s been nearly 9 months. I look VIRTUALLY UNRECOGNIZABLE in the condition I’m in. I fear even my family would not recognize me.

Contact with the outside world, from legal visits to seeing loved ones is HIGHLY RESTRICTED. After in-person visits, legal or otherwise, we are forced to undergo humiliating STRIP SEARCHES, despite ALL visitors being thoroughly checked for contraband. If it’s a legal visit, we are placed in a 14 day quarantine, with no out of cell time; EVEN IF your attorney is VACCINATED and tests NEGATIVE for Covid. Visits with friends or family members, for unvaccinated inmates, are NEVER ALLOWED.

As a result, many people have skipped critical meetings with their council, and NEVER get an opportunity to see friends or family. VIDEO VISITATION, while available to the rest of the jail, is RESTRICTED in the Jan 6 pod. Mail is delayed for MONTHS, and phone calls are limited to a MAXIMUM of pre approved 12 numbers. If there’s anyone else in our extended family or otherwise we’d like to call, we’re pretty much out of luck.

RELIGIOUS SERVICES, protected by the 1st amendment, are NOT provided to Jan 6ers. Neither are in person classes or other activities available to the rest of the jail. An inmate named Ryan Samsel, instead attempted to organize his own bible study inside the pod, until he was viciously BEATEN and LEFT FOR DEAD by correctional officers. He suffered a broken eye socket and brain damage as a result of the vicious attack. He’s now permanently blind in one eye. On another occasion, Scott Fairlamb was confronted by an officer in the middle of the night, and his life was threatened, once the officer’s body cam was disabled. Many, like myself, are afraid they could be the next victim.

And last but not least, we experience racism from many guards on a daily basis, being the ONLY WHITE REPUBLICANS in the entire jail. The false narrative is has been passed around the jail and to corrections officers that we are “white supremacists” (we are NOT). The inmate population is predominantly black, so we are at risk being here because of this false narrative. The guards are mostly liberal migrants from Africa who have been conditioned to hate us, and hate America.

Jan 6ers have been mocked, beaten and ridiculed by guards for singing the National Anthem. The Corrections Officers despise our politics and the love we have for this country. At one point, an officer even yelled “[REDACTED] AMERICA!”, and threatened to lock us down FOR A WEEK if we attempted to sing the National Anthem again.

THE TRUTH ABOUT MY STORY – Finally, I feel like I should touch briefly on the government and prosecutor’s portrayal of who I am as a person.

No, I am not a terrorist, extremist or any of the other names I’ve been called by the government. More than anything, I am a red blooded patriot and I love this country more than anything.

I am being unfairly prosecuted and definitely overcharged. I never assaulted anyone, destroyed property, or stolen anything. I walked through wide open doors to enter the Capitol, along with my camera crew hoping to get the rally on video. I was never even armed at any point inside the Capitol.

Our goal was to make a documentary, and get likes and shares on social media. Yes I wore a costume (that the prosecutor refers to as paramilitary gear and body armor) but it was for the movie and was nothing of the sort. And yet, 9 months later here I sit, with 10 years worth of charges and no hope for a future. The surveillance footage shows absolutely no signs of assault, and despite attempts by media companies to get it released to the public, the government has denied it.

I think that’s because they are fully aware that this footage is questionable at worst, and exonerates me at best. Please don’t be fooled by the media. I am a loving and peaceful person with no history of violence.

This weaponized DOJ and their blatant resentment of my respect for President Donald Trump is putting me in a situation that makes me feel helpless in my current situation.

HOW YOU CAN HELP – Despite me and other Jan 6ers experiencing these unthinkable conditions, all of us remain POSITIVE and HOPEFUL that, in the end, JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL. We maintain a LOVE for this country and the Constitution like no other. The only thing keeping us going is our undying patriotism, the camaraderie between one another and our faith in God.

Please…SHARE THIS LETTER with EVERYONE you know: friends and family, senators, representatives, political organizers, civil rights groups and media outlets.
The truth HAS to get out. And the jail MUST PAY for what they are doing to this country’s citizens.

As a result of this unlawful detainment the last 9 months, I have lost everything. The successful business I spent 13 years of my life working on, my apartment in Las Vegas, social media accounts with a lifetime of memories… you name it.

The government has essentially CANCELLED ME. Not only that, but following the arrest, my best friend of 12 years robbed my apartment, stole my cat, and hacked my personal Instagram with 100,000+ followers. Since then, I often go between feelings of hopefulness and moments of depression. I wonder if I can ever recover from this, but I have to remind myself to never give up.

There are major medical complications I now struggle with as a result of the jail’s neglect of my health since being here. If there is any way I hope to recover, my only hope are the ones who are reading this. I was on top of the world once upon a time, and that life seems now only like a distant memory.

If there’s anything you can do to help, I would appreciate anything at all. Inmates here are being extorted with lack of nutrition, forcing me to spend most of what’s left on commissary which I can no longer afford.

I need desperate help with my legal expenses and just help staying alive in here with commissary and all the expenses I still have on the outside as my livelihood and life has been stripped away from me. Thank you for [anything] you can afford, even if it is a few dollars it goes a long way in here.

Sincerely and with love,

Nathaniel DeGrave

Published in General
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  1. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Max (View Comment):

    Let’s say for the sake of argument that DeGrave is a violent criminal. (The government has not proven this.)

    So that means he deserves to have his toilet overflow into his cell? He deserves to be mentally abused by guards? He should suffer physical abuse? What?

    One prisoner has already apparently died in holding.  His lawyer sent out a letter continuing to protest his innocence posthumously.

    • #31
  2. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Max (View Comment):

    Let’s say for the sake of argument that DeGrave is a violent criminal. (The government has not proven this.)

    So that means he deserves to have his toilet overflow into his cell? He deserves to be mentally abused by guards? He should suffer physical abuse? What?

    Actual people here on Ricochet who call themselves conservatives say that Ashli Babbitt deserved to be shot. So . . . my guess is that we will also have people who believe DeGrave deserves to be abused, too.

    I think @philo has sufficiently documented this.

    • #32
  3. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Max (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Max (View Comment):

    Let’s say for the sake of argument that DeGrave is a violent criminal. (The government has not proven this.)

    So that means he deserves to have his toilet overflow into his cell? He deserves to be mentally abused by guards? He should suffer physical abuse? What?

    Actual people here on Ricochet who call themselves conservatives say that Ashli Babbitt deserved to be shot. So . . . my guess is that we will also have people who believe DeGrave deserves to be abused, too.

    Well that’s just disgusting. No prisoner, even convicted murders, should be abused. The political prisoners have no been convicted of anything.

    Yes, this is as I commented on the original post that you didn’t promote even after you saw it.

    • #33
  4. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I find it disappointing that Ricochet has elevated a letter from Nathan DeGrave to the Main Feed. Mr. DeGrave starts his letter stating:

    My name is Nathan DeGrave, and as a non violent participant at the Jan 6th rally, I’ve spent the last 9 months detained as a political prisoner in pod C2B at the DC Department of Corrections (DOC) otherwise known as DC’s Gitmo.

    A non-violent participant? A political prisoner?

    All of the defendants in the Capitol Riot are listed in a detailed database at https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases. There we discover that Mr. DeGrave was charged with nine crimes, namely, “Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers; Civil Disorder; Obstruction of an Official Proceeding; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds; Disorderly Conduct in a Capitol Building; Impeding Passage Through the Capitol Grounds or Buildings; Act of Physical Violence in the Capitol Grounds or Buildings; Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building.”

    . . .

    Gary, thanks for tracking down this information, and the additional details in your #9 above.

    I don’t know the facts about Mr. DeGrave, but the evidence you provide appears, to me, to provide sufficient cause to believe that he committed serious, violent acts.  Classifying him as a political prisoner does not seem warranted in these circumstances.

    • #34
  5. Jim George Member
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

    Flicker (View Comment):
    I really think that 5 bucks is not a reason to kowtow to the membership.

    “kowtow” to the membership? I am left to wonder what that actually means? Does that mean that the EO of a business entity has NO obligation to have ANY interest in what his “stakeholders” are concerned about? Perhaps, Eureka!, I have just stumbled upon the real answer– we are @garyrobbins, in which the opposing “argument” consisted of posting photos taken from one’s phone posing as an impersonator of Hitler as if that justified the most egregious kind of cruel and unusual punishment. Gee, that kind of site is sounding better and better all the time. Yours for serious dialogue, and God Bless America…and the First Amendment. Jim

     

    • #35
  6. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I find it disappointing that Ricochet has elevated a letter from Nathan DeGrave to the Main Feed. Mr. DeGrave starts his letter stating:

    My name is Nathan DeGrave, and as a non violent participant at the Jan 6th rally, I’ve spent the last 9 months detained as a political prisoner in pod C2B at the DC Department of Corrections (DOC) otherwise known as DC’s Gitmo.

    A non-violent participant? A political prisoner?

    All of the defendants in the Capitol Riot are listed in a detailed database at https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases.There we discover that Mr. DeGrave was charged with nine crimes, namely, “Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers; Civil Disorder; Obstruction of an Official Proceeding; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds; Disorderly Conduct in a Capitol Building; Impeding Passage Through the Capitol Grounds or Buildings; Act of Physical Violence in the Capitol Grounds or Buildings; Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building.”

    . . .

    Gary, thanks for tracking down this information, and the additional details in your #9 above.

    I don’t know the facts about Mr. DeGrave, but the evidence you provide appears, to me, to provide sufficient cause to believe that he committed serious, violent acts. Classifying him as a political prisoner does not seem warranted in these circumstances.

    And I guess the conditions are OK for you two as well.

    Damn I hope neither of you are ever my lawyer. 

    • #36
  7. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Jim George (View Comment):
    “kowtow” to the membership? I am left to wonder what that actually means? Does that mean that the EO of a business entity has NO obligation to have ANY interest in what his “stakeholders” are concerned about?

    Maybe I was exaggerating and unduly provocative, and for that I apologize.  But I look at it perhaps as if Ricochet produced fine muscle cars and decided that the market just wasn’t there to be financially sustainable, and they decided to go with electric cars for the city.  The business plan has got a future and will be a preferred corporation benefitting from the new direction in personal transportation.  And that’s a decision that  only the corporation can make, and they have a right to take their business in any direction they want.

    • #37
  8. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Django (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Max (View Comment):

    Let’s say for the sake of argument that DeGrave is a violent criminal. (The government has not proven this.)

    So that means he deserves to have his toilet overflow into his cell? He deserves to be mentally abused by guards? He should suffer physical abuse? What?

    Actual people here on Ricochet who call themselves conservatives say that Ashli Babbitt deserved to be shot. So . . . my guess is that we will also have people who believe DeGrave deserves to be abused, too.

    I still can’t understand support for a murderer. That guy shot an unarmed woman for climbing through a window and all the legal gymnastics in the world won’t change that fact. IIRC, some whined that the killer would possibly be doxxed, if I got that term right.

    For the record, I also can’t understand what made he do that.

    Since you have decided to shift this post to the death of Ashli Babbitt, I think that the officer who shot her should be heard.  He was interviewed by Lester Holt.  From the NBC News Article which is at https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officer-who-shot-ashli-babbitt-during-capitol-riot-breaks-silence-n1277736:

    “In the chaotic minutes before he shot and killed Ashli Babbitt during the Capitol riot on Jan. 6, Lt. Michael Byrd focused his attention on the glass doors leading into the lobby of the House of Representatives chamber.

    “About 60 to 80 House members and staffers were holed up inside, and it was Byrd’s job to protect them.

    “As rioters rampaged through the Capitol, Byrd and a few other officers of the U.S. Capitol Police set up a wall of furniture outside the doors.

    “‘Once we barricaded the doors, we were essentially trapped where we were,’ Byrd said in an exclusive interview with NBC News’ Lester Holt, speaking publicly for the first time since the riot. ‘There was no way to retreat. No other way to get out.

    “‘If they get through that door, they’re into the House chamber and upon the members of Congress,’ added Byrd, who gave NBC News permission to use his name after authorities had declined to release it.”

    ;;;

    “Soon a horde of demonstrators arrived. Byrd, a 28-year veteran of the Capitol Police, took a defensive posture with his gun drawn as rioters smashed the glass doors.

    “He said he yelled repeatedly for them to get back. But the mob kept pressing forward, and then a lone rioter tried to climb through one of the doors.

    “What happened next was captured on video: Byrd fired one shot, striking Babbitt in the shoulder.”

    “Byrd said he had no idea whether the person he shot was carrying a weapon. It was only later that night that he found out that the rioter was a woman who was unarmed.

    “Asked why he pulled the trigger, Byrd said it was a ‘last resort.’

    “‘I tried to wait as long as I could,’ he told Holt. ‘I hoped and prayed no one tried to enter through those doors. But their failure to comply required me to take the appropriate action to save the lives of members of Congress and myself and my fellow officers.'”

    Lt. Byrd has been an officer for 28 years.  If memory serves, this was the first time he had ever fired a gun as part of his work.  He had a duty to defend members of the House and Senate, just as members of the Secret Service have a duty to protect the life of the President.  There were 60-80 members of the House still in the House Chamber who he had to protect from the mob who had been chanting “Hang Mike Pence.”

    For more information, see the following New York Times’ documentary at the 28 minute point where Ashli Babbitt was crawling through a broken window.  After she was shot, the rioters who had been surging forward, started to melt back.

    • #38
  9. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Max (View Comment):

    Let’s say for the sake of argument that DeGrave is a violent criminal. (The government has not proven this.)

    So that means he deserves to have his toilet overflow into his cell? He deserves to be mentally abused by guards? He should suffer physical abuse? What?

    Actual people here on Ricochet who call themselves conservatives say that Ashli Babbitt deserved to be shot. So . . . my guess is that we will also have people who believe DeGrave deserves to be abused, too.

    I still can’t understand support for a murderer. That guy shot an unarmed woman for climbing through a window and all the legal gymnastics in the world won’t change that fact. IIRC, some whined that the killer would possibly be doxxed, if I got that term right.

    For the record, I also can’t understand what made he do that.

    Since you have decided to shift this post to the death of Ashli Babbitt, I think that the officer who shot her should be heard. He was interviewed by Lester Holt. From the NBC News Article which is at https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officer-who-shot-ashli-babbitt-during-capitol-riot-breaks-silence-n1277736:

    “In the chaotic minutes before he shot and killed Ashli Babbitt during the Capitol riot on Jan. 6, Lt. Michael Byrd focused his attention on the glass doors leading into the lobby of the House of Representatives chamber.

    “About 60 to 80 House members and staffers were holed up inside, and it was Byrd’s job to protect them.

    “As rioters rampaged through the Capitol, Byrd and a few other officers of the U.S. Capitol Police set up a wall of furniture outside the doors.

    “‘Once we barricaded the doors, we were essentially trapped where we were,’ Byrd said in an exclusive interview with NBC News’ Lester Holt, speaking publicly for the first time since the riot. ‘There was no way to retreat. No other way to get out.

    “‘If they get through that door, they’re into the House chamber and upon the members of Congress,’ added Byrd, who gave NBC News permission to use his name after authorities had declined to release it.”

     

     

    For more information, see the following New York Times’ documentary at the 28 minute point where Ashli Babbitt was crawling through a broken window. After she was shot, the rioters who had been surging forward, started to melt back.

    In my judgement this drivel doesn’t deserve a serious response. 

    • #39
  10. Vince Guerra Member
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Max (View Comment):

    For the record I published this to the member feed completely unaware that Vince had already posted it. Sorry, Vince. I did scroll back through recent posts to see if anyone had already posted it, but didn’t go far enough. I did want to publish it to the main feed so I could link to it from my podcast post yesterday, but I wasn’t sure if Jon would want it on the home page and it was pretty late at night when I posted it so I just put it on the member feed.

    Absolutely no worries. 

    • #40
  11. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I find it disappointing that Ricochet has elevated a letter from Nathan DeGrave to the Main Feed. Mr. DeGrave starts his letter stating:

    My name is Nathan DeGrave, and as a non violent participant at the Jan 6th rally, I’ve spent the last 9 months detained as a political prisoner in pod C2B at the DC Department of Corrections (DOC) otherwise known as DC’s Gitmo.

    A non-violent participant? A political prisoner?

    All of the defendants in the Capitol Riot are listed in a detailed database at https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases.There we discover that Mr. DeGrave was charged with nine crimes, namely, “Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers; Civil Disorder; Obstruction of an Official Proceeding; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds; Disorderly Conduct in a Capitol Building; Impeding Passage Through the Capitol Grounds or Buildings; Act of Physical Violence in the Capitol Grounds or Buildings; Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building.”

    . . .

    Gary, thanks for tracking down this information, and the additional details in your #9 above.

    I don’t know the facts about Mr. DeGrave, but the evidence you provide appears, to me, to provide sufficient cause to believe that he committed serious, violent acts. Classifying him as a political prisoner does not seem warranted in these circumstances.

    And I guess the conditions are OK for you two as well.

    Damn I hope neither of you are ever my lawyer.

    The conditions he’s held in have nothing to do with whether or not he should be classified as a “political prisoner”.

     

    • #41
  12. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I find it disappointing that Ricochet has elevated a letter from Nathan DeGrave to the Main Feed. Mr. DeGrave starts his letter stating:

    My name is Nathan DeGrave, and as a non violent participant at the Jan 6th rally, I’ve spent the last 9 months detained as a political prisoner in pod C2B at the DC Department of Corrections (DOC) otherwise known as DC’s Gitmo.

    A non-violent participant? A political prisoner?

    All of the defendants in the Capitol Riot are listed in a detailed database at https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases.There we discover that Mr. DeGrave was charged with nine crimes, namely, “Assaulting, Resisting, or Impeding Certain Officers; Civil Disorder; Obstruction of an Official Proceeding; Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building or Grounds; Disorderly and Disruptive Conduct in a Restricted Building or Grounds; Disorderly Conduct in a Capitol Building; Impeding Passage Through the Capitol Grounds or Buildings; Act of Physical Violence in the Capitol Grounds or Buildings; Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building.”

    . . .

    Gary, thanks for tracking down this information, and the additional details in your #9 above.

    I don’t know the facts about Mr. DeGrave, but the evidence you provide appears, to me, to provide sufficient cause to believe that he committed serious, violent acts. Classifying him as a political prisoner does not seem warranted in these circumstances.

    And I guess the conditions are OK for you two as well.

    Damn I hope neither of you are ever my lawyer.

    The conditions he’s held in have nothing to do with whether or not he should be classified as a “political prisoner”.

    Focusing on that one aspect while ignoring the rest demonstrated their utter lack of care.

     

    • #42
  13. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    The man arrested after Bengazi was a political prisoner. While they found some crime to look him Up for, it was really for the video. 

     

    If you three are unable to see the truth on things like that, I cannot help you.

     

     

    • #43
  14. Max Coolidge
    Max
    @Max

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Max (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Max (View Comment):

    Let’s say for the sake of argument that DeGrave is a violent criminal. (The government has not proven this.)

    So that means he deserves to have his toilet overflow into his cell? He deserves to be mentally abused by guards? He should suffer physical abuse? What?

    Actual people here on Ricochet who call themselves conservatives say that Ashli Babbitt deserved to be shot. So . . . my guess is that we will also have people who believe DeGrave deserves to be abused, too.

    Well that’s just disgusting. No prisoner, even convicted murders, should be abused. The political prisoners have no been convicted of anything.

    Yes, this is as I commented on the original post that you didn’t promote even after you saw it.

    I have nothing to do with promoting posts, Flicker, so drop the attitude. 

    • #44
  15. Max Coolidge
    Max
    @Max

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    The man arrested after Bengazi was a political prisoner. While they found some crime to look him Up for, it was really for the video.

    If you three are unable to see the truth on things like that, I cannot help you.

     

     

    Exactly. And again, DeGrave has not been convicted. To cite a charging document as justification for abusing prisoners is actually evil. Look at the charging documents against Michael Flynn. Should Flynn then have been tossed in prison for endless months and served cold food and forced to live in a cell that had mold in it? Because the FBI set him up and lied in its charging documents? What about the Michigan “kidnap” “plotters”? 12 out of 18 people in the group were FBI. Should they be abused in pre-trial confinement because the FBI puts scary words in charging documents? 

    Newsflash, the government always makes you look like a crazy psychopath in its charging documents. Just because the government charges a person with a crime does not mean that person is guilty. Charging documents are one sided and present the defendant in the worst possible light.

    Again, for the sake of argument, say that DeGrave is a violent criminal. (The government has not proven this.) He still deserves to be treated fairly and to have a speedy trial. He and the others are being held as political prisoners as a warning to the rest of us.

    January 6 prisoners are being forced to correct their wrongthink in court as condition of release. One woman was forced to read critical race theory books and to denounce her own son in law as a racist before the judge released her. Another prisoner was released on condition that he not watch Fox News. Another prisoner had his bail revoked because he watched Mike Lindell’s cyber Symposium.

    These are political prisoners, regardless of whether some of them may or may not have actually broken laws. 

    Meanwhile, violent Antifa members get bailed out on personal recognizance within hours and have their charges dropped. 

    • #45
  16. Jim George Member
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

    Max (View Comment):
    eGrave has not been convicted. To cite a charging document as justification for abusing prisoners is actually evil.

    That a person with an active license to practice law needs to be told this is in my view quite simply astonishing, not to mention extremely troubling, to use the most euphemistic word I can possibly think of. And, as careful as I am about using the word “evil”,  I fully agree with the use of that word in describing one who feels that a person charged with a crime but who is apparently, the way those DC Judges are playing along with the junkyard-dog lawyers from the Department of [In]Justice, a long way from even a trial much less a conviction, should be punished with beatings, torture, overflowing sewage, denial of basic medical care – even for cancer patients, which hit closer to home for me than most of them — I just cannot believe an attorney who makes lovely speeches about his dedication to The Rule of Law could countenance such unconstitutional conduct. 

    • #46
  17. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    For more information, see the following New York Times’ documentary at the 28 minute point where Ashli Babbitt was crawling through a broken window.  After she was shot, the rioters who had been surging forward, started to melt back.

    This is a lie from the pit of hell. I don’t know how the New York Times edited its piece, but I’ve seen the video that NBC paid antifa member John Sullivan for, and after she is shot, nobody starts to melt back, as you claim.

    That, to me, is the weirdest part of the video. There’s a guy next to her, also with back pack, apparently a rioter (or more likely, an FBI agent), and after she’s shot, he just continues to stand there.

    If you’re a normal person, and you’re in a group, and shots ring out and someone falls dead, don’t you high-tail it out of there?

    But mystery backpack man and quite a few others (including John Sullivan, paid agitator) just hang around by the door and window through which bullets were flying moments earlier.

    Your pal Jerry insists she deserved to be shot and points to her backpack as a reason she was shot. (Nobody knew what she was carrying!) Except the guy next to her also with a backpack was not shot, and the police who were there did not attempt to restrain him, take the backpack from him, search the backpack or anything like that.

    The backpack excuse is groundless.

    The claim that shooting her caused rioters to flee is not backed up by video evidence.

    Please stop being a left-wing dupe.

    • #47
  18. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Jim George (View Comment):
    I just cannot believe an attorney who makes lovely speeches about his dedication to The Rule of Law could countenance such unconstitutional conduct. 

    Kind of makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

    • #48
  19. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Django (View Comment):

    In my judgement this drivel doesn’t deserve a serious response.

    Sorry, but I just get tired of Gary continuing to spread fake news, just copy/pasting whatever the media idiots spew out. It’s like he works for CNN or MSNBC.

    • #49
  20. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    For more information, see the following New York Times’ documentary at the 28 minute point where Ashli Babbitt was crawling through a broken window. After she was shot, the rioters who had been surging forward, started to melt back.

    This is a lie from the pit of hell. I don’t know how the New York Times edited its piece, but I’ve seen the video that NBC paid antifa member John Sullivan for, and after she is shot, nobody starts to melt back, as you claim.

    That, to me, is the weirdest part of the video. There’s a guy next to her, also with back pack, apparently a rioter (or more likely, an FBI agent), and after she’s shot, he just continues to stand there.

    If you’re a normal person, and you’re in a group, and shots ring out and someone falls dead, don’t you high-tail it out of there?

    But mystery backpack man and quite a few others (including John Sullivan, paid agitator) just hang around by the door and window through which bullets were flying moments earlier.

    Your pal Jerry insists she deserved to be shot and points to her backpack as a reason she was shot. (Nobody knew what she was carrying!) Except the guy next to her also with a backpack was not shot, and the police who were there did not attempt to restrain him, take the backpack from him, search the backpack or anything like that.

    The backpack excuse is groundless.

    The claim that shooting her caused rioters to flee is not backed up by video evidence.

    Please stop being a left-wing dupe.

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Jim George (View Comment):
    I just cannot believe an attorney who makes lovely speeches about his dedication to The Rule of Law could countenance such unconstitutional conduct.

    Kind of makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    In my judgement this drivel doesn’t deserve a serious response.

    Sorry, but I just get tired of Gary continuing to spread fake news, just copy/pasting whatever the media idiots spew out. It’s like he works for CNN or MSNBC.

    I suggest that you meet me on the battlefield of ideas, instead of making personal attacks.  The Code of Conduct prohibits:

    • Personal attacks and ad hominem arguments against people, groups, or classes. Public figures may be exempt from this rule, provided the comment otherwise adheres to the CoC.
    • Anything that makes the Ricochet Community look like a bunch of radical fruitcakes. This includes 99% of conspiracy theories.
    • Defamatory, gossipy, or rude comments. Imagine you’re a guest at a dinner party with a group of seemingly nice people you don’t know… how would you handle yourself?
    • #50
  21. D.A. Venters Inactive
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    There are grievance-outrage-fundraising machines on the extremes of both political sides. DeGrave is trying to tap into this to help raise money for his legal defense.

    Look at the docket in his case – he’s the one slowing it down. He filed motions to exclude evidence – from his bond hearing! – and contests everything, including, as Gary noted, forcing the judge to write a 30 page opinion on the question of his pretrial detention. He also appealed the bond decision to the court of appeals. He has, in addition to the speedy trial waivers that accompany those pretrial motions, on at least one occasion, agreed to toll the speedy trial time. 

    He’s making the government work for every inch in the process,‘which is his right to do, but let’s not pretend he’s a poor political prisoner being denied due process. That’s patently wrong. He’s been afforded tremendous amounts of process – far more than you see in most cases. Which is probably why his lawyers need more money.  If he had wanted a quick trial, he’d have had it by now. 

    There apparently is something to the complaint about the jail conditions, but it obviously applies to more than just the Jan 6th prisoners. This is a problem in jails nationwide and it’s usually the left who’s trying to get attention brought to it. So that’s not a political issue either. As I stated in the other thread, take a random sampling of 500 other criminal cases across the country and you’ll find similar numbers of similar claims, and of similar levels of veracity.

    Don’t get taken in by propaganda on either side, and watch for things that appeal to your sense of political outrage, and which come with a request for money. Oftentimes these claims don’t hold up when you look into them. 

    • #51
  22. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Max (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Max (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Max (View Comment):

    Let’s say for the sake of argument that DeGrave is a violent criminal. (The government has not proven this.)

    So that means he deserves to have his toilet overflow into his cell? He deserves to be mentally abused by guards? He should suffer physical abuse? What?

    Actual people here on Ricochet who call themselves conservatives say that Ashli Babbitt deserved to be shot. So . . . my guess is that we will also have people who believe DeGrave deserves to be abused, too.

    Well that’s just disgusting. No prisoner, even convicted murders, should be abused. The political prisoners have no been convicted of anything.

    Yes, this is as I commented on the original post that you didn’t promote even after you saw it.

    I have nothing to do with promoting posts, Flicker, so drop the attitude.

    Attitude?  I was surprised, that’s all.  I expected you to drop your redundant post.  And maybe ask that the other post from only 5 days prior that up ’til then still active would be promoted.

    (Given your reaction here maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned it on the What Makes a Post “Promotable?” post, but it seemed appropriate.  Sorry about that.)

    • #52
  23. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    For more information, see the following New York Times’ documentary at the 28 minute point where Ashli Babbitt was crawling through a broken window. After she was shot, the rioters who had been surging forward, started to melt back.

    This is a lie from the pit of hell. I don’t know how the New York Times edited its piece, but I’ve seen the video that NBC paid antifa member John Sullivan for, and after she is shot, nobody starts to melt back, as you claim.

    That, to me, is the weirdest part of the video. There’s a guy next to her, also with back pack, apparently a rioter (or more likely, an FBI agent), and after she’s shot, he just continues to stand there.

    If you’re a normal person, and you’re in a group, and shots ring out and someone falls dead, don’t you high-tail it out of there?

    But mystery backpack man and quite a few others (including John Sullivan, paid agitator) just hang around by the door and window through which bullets were flying moments earlier.

    Your pal Jerry insists she deserved to be shot and points to her backpack as a reason she was shot. (Nobody knew what she was carrying!) Except the guy next to her also with a backpack was not shot, and the police who were there did not attempt to restrain him, take the backpack from him, search the backpack or anything like that.

    The backpack excuse is groundless.

    The claim that shooting her caused rioters to flee is not backed up by video evidence.

    Please stop being a left-wing dupe.

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Jim George (View Comment):
    I just cannot believe an attorney who makes lovely speeches about his dedication to The Rule of Law could countenance such unconstitutional conduct.

    Kind of makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    In my judgement this drivel doesn’t deserve a serious response.

    Sorry, but I just get tired of Gary continuing to spread fake news, just copy/pasting whatever the media idiots spew out. It’s like he works for CNN or MSNBC.

    I suggest that you meet me on the battlefield of ideas, instead of making personal attacks. The Code of Conduct prohibits:

    • Personal attacks and ad hominem arguments against people, groups, or classes. Public figures may be exempt from this rule, provided the comment otherwise adheres to the CoC.
    • Anything that makes the Ricochet Community look like a bunch of radical fruitcakes. This includes 99% of conspiracy theories.
    • Defamatory, gossipy, or rude comments. Imagine you’re a guest at a dinner party with a group of seemingly nice people you don’t know… how would you handle yourself?

    I suggest you address his statement refuting your characterization of the crowd after the shooting  instead of whining about the COC.   

    • #53
  24. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):
    For more information, see the following New York Times’ documentary at the 28 minute point where Ashli Babbitt was crawling through a broken window. After she was shot, the rioters who had been surging forward, started to melt back.

    This is a lie from the pit of hell. I don’t know how the New York Times edited its piece, but I’ve seen the video that NBC paid antifa member John Sullivan for, and after she is shot, nobody starts to melt back, as you claim.

    That, to me, is the weirdest part of the video. There’s a guy next to her, also with back pack, apparently a rioter (or more likely, an FBI agent), and after she’s shot, he just continues to stand there.

    If you’re a normal person, and you’re in a group, and shots ring out and someone falls dead, don’t you high-tail it out of there?

    But mystery backpack man and quite a few others (including John Sullivan, paid agitator) just hang around by the door and window through which bullets were flying moments earlier.

    Your pal Jerry insists she deserved to be shot and points to her backpack as a reason she was shot. (Nobody knew what she was carrying!) Except the guy next to her also with a backpack was not shot, and the police who were there did not attempt to restrain him, take the backpack from him, search the backpack or anything like that.

    The backpack excuse is groundless.

    The claim that shooting her caused rioters to flee is not backed up by video evidence.

    Please stop being a left-wing dupe.

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Jim George (View Comment):
    I just cannot believe an attorney who makes lovely speeches about his dedication to The Rule of Law could countenance such unconstitutional conduct.

    Kind of makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    In my judgement this drivel doesn’t deserve a serious response.

    Sorry, but I just get tired of Gary continuing to spread fake news, just copy/pasting whatever the media idiots spew out. It’s like he works for CNN or MSNBC.

    I suggest that you meet me on the battlefield of ideas, instead of making personal attacks. The Code of Conduct prohibits:

    • Personal attacks and ad hominem arguments against people, groups, or classes. Public figures may be exempt from this rule, provided the comment otherwise adheres to the CoC.
    • Anything that makes the Ricochet Community look like a bunch of radical fruitcakes. This includes 99% of conspiracy theories.
    • Defamatory, gossipy, or rude comments. Imagine you’re a guest at a dinner party with a group of seemingly nice people you don’t know… how would you handle yourself?

    I suggest you address his statement refuting your characterization of the crowd after the shooting instead of whining about the COC.

    CoC argument is a form of shut up.

    • #54
  25. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    CoC argument is a form of shut up.

    Well, it’s either that or some ridiculous non-sequitur.

    • #55
  26. Max Coolidge
    Max
    @Max

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):
    he’s the one slowing it down

    Oh, no. No, no, no. I say, NO. That is complete BS. No. You do not get to say he’s the one slowing it down because he’s exercising his right to mount a defense. No. 

    • #56
  27. D.A. Venters Inactive
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    Max (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):
    he’s the one slowing it down

    Oh, no. No, no, no. I say, NO. That is complete BS. No. You do not get to say he’s the one slowing it down because he’s exercising his right to mount a defense. No.

    Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. I do get to say that because a) no one can stop me, and b) more importantly for this discussion, I’m right about it.  I do this for a living. I have often had clients who had to weigh out insisting on a speedy trial vs. making certain moves in their defense.

    That’s just the way it is, and the politics of the defendant has nothing to do with it.

    Admittedly I don’t do much in Federal Court, but the constitutional issues are all the same and the processes are very similar. Your average state court pretrial detention/bond hearing is usually a 5 minute affair, with the judge making the decision based solely on counsel’s oral representations. DeGrave turned it into a 5 month argument, complete with hearings on what evidence can be produced at the bond hearing and the involvement of the Court of Appeals. He’s changing attorneys midstream and voluntarily agreeing to toll the speedy trial time calculation.

    That’s not a man trying to have a speedy trial on the underlying charge. That’s a man luxuriating in the process like it’s a bubble bath.

    And maybe that’s a good legal strategy for him, I don’t know. He’s got every right to make them work for it, but that often backfires when the outcome is not really in doubt. Or maybe his lawyers are stretching it out so they can get paid to really dig and do a thorough investigation. Or maybe he figures his best future is to get famous as a right wing martyr, endure the inevitable prison time, then get out and get rich writing and speaking about how unjust the system is. I don’t know what his game is, but either way, I wouldn’t send him any money.

    • #57
  28. Max Coolidge
    Max
    @Max

    Blah blah blah. It would be so much faster if he would just plead guilty, amirite? I mean, maybe we should just dispense with the right to defend oneself.

    • #58
  29. Max Coolidge
    Max
    @Max

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    That’s a man luxuriating in the process like it’s a bubble bath.

     

    Raw sewage? 

     

    • #59
  30. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Max (View Comment):

    Blah blah blah. It would be so much faster if he would just plead guilty, amirite? I mean, maybe we should just dispense with the right to defend oneself.

    Due process is such an old-fashioned notion.

    “Sentence first—verdict afterwards.”

    • #60
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