Traffic Stops Involve More Than a Cite

 

Sometimes I would not write a cite, and sometimes I would. Traffic stops lead to a subject that has a warrant, or like the story above someone who is a felon in possession of a firearm.

It should come as no surprise that someone who is breaking the small laws might be breaking the big laws. I’ve stopped individuals that had outstanding warrants. The warrant is a court order and when you give the dispatcher a person’s name and date of birth the dispatcher will inform you if they have a warrant. The very next question is are they in custody?

Sometimes the reply is give me a moment. Once they are handcuffed and in the backseat I’d call the dispatcher and confirm they were in custody. Dispatch will notify the court that the warrant has been served.

The subject in the Tweet was felony suspended. That indicates that he has committed crimes involving the use of a motor vehicle. He is not only facing multiple charges involving state laws, he has also committed multiple federal crimes involving a firearm.

Published in Policing
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  1. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Guy has to have a hobby, after all.

    • #1
  2. dajoho Member
    dajoho
    @dajoho

    Thanks Doug.  I find your LEA stories and insight excellent.  

    7.62mm rifle with homemade suppressor and altered serial number

    No big deal, no ill intent with this weapon.  It’s just for “fun.”

    • #2
  3. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn
    @Caryn

    Yikes.  Sounds like a scary guy is now off the streets.  Good.  Assuming the courts do their part, of course.  Too big an assumption?

    • #3
  4. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    dajoho (View Comment):

    Thanks Doug. I find your LEA stories and insight excellent.

    7.62mm rifle with homemade suppressor and altered serial number

    No big deal, no ill intent with this weapon. It’s just for “fun.”

    He needs that so he can defend himself in the home. Not his home, exactly….

    • #4
  5. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    dajoho (View Comment):

    Thanks Doug. I find your LEA stories and insight excellent.

    7.62mm rifle with homemade suppressor and altered serial number

    No big deal, no ill intent with this weapon. It’s just for “fun.”

    Well, he could have had some “critters” in his back yard that needed to be dealt with; groundhogs and the like…

    Seriously, that is one scary weapon.  I’d hate to go up against it with the weapons I have.

    • #5
  6. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    dajoho (View Comment):

    Thanks Doug. I find your LEA stories and insight excellent.

    7.62mm rifle with homemade suppressor and altered serial number

    No big deal, no ill intent with this weapon. It’s just for “fun.”

    Well, he could have had some “critters” in his back yard that needed to be dealt with; groundhogs and the like…

    Seriously, that is one scary weapon. I’d hate to go up against it with the weapons I have.

    It looks jawa-esque. 

    • #6
  7. DonG (CAGW is a hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a hoax)
    @DonG

    CACrabtree (View Comment):
    Seriously, that is one scary weapon.  I’d hate to go up against it with the weapons I have.

    That looks like one of those guns that has the trigger at the front connected to the action at the rear (sorry I don’t know the technical terms).   Are those things reliable?  Seems like one more thing to go wrong.

    • #7
  8. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    CACrabtree (View Comment):
    Seriously, that is one scary weapon. I’d hate to go up against it with the weapons I have.

    That looks like one of those guns that has the trigger at the front connected to the action at the rear (sorry I don’t know the technical terms). Are those things reliable? Seems like one more thing to go wrong.

    So it’s like the mullet of guns? 

    • #8
  9. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    Another illustration of why I have always had great respect, sympathy and admiration for police officers (even as they are writing me a ticket); they never know what they are going to encounter when they make a “routine” stop.

    • #9
  10. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    This is why I was completely baffled by cities pushing in 2020 and early 2021 to stop having full police officers do traffic stops and have traffic enforcement done only by unarmed traffic citation clerks. 

    • #10
  11. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Doug Watt:

    It should come as no surprise that someone who is breaking the small laws might be breaking the big laws. I’ve stopped individuals that had outstanding warrants. The warrant is a court order and when you give the dispatcher a person’s name and date of birth the dispatcher will inform you if they have a warrant. The very next question is are they in custody?

     

    That’s what Giuliani’s point was with busting turnstile jumpers. Some of them had felony warrants.

    • #11
  12. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    CACrabtree (View Comment):

    dajoho (View Comment):

    Thanks Doug. I find your LEA stories and insight excellent.

    7.62mm rifle with homemade suppressor and altered serial number

    No big deal, no ill intent with this weapon. It’s just for “fun.”

    Well, he could have had some “critters” in his back yard that needed to be dealt with; groundhogs and the like…

    Seriously, that is one scary weapon. I’d hate to go up against it with the weapons I have.

    I know that should someone give me such an item, if I had it  in my car I would be very very careful not to speed

    • #12
  13. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):
    That looks like one of those guns that has the trigger at the front connected to the action at the rear (sorry I don’t know the technical terms).   Are those things reliable?  Seems like one more thing to go wrong.

    Bullpup. Not a bad idea – the British army has used one as their battle rifle for a while now.  Makes the overall weapon shorter. 

    • #13
  14. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    I believe that rifle is a Tavor. The 7.62 version costs close to $2000.00 retail in the U.S. They aren’t common, but aren’t terribly unusual either. His optic is medium-quality, not cheap either. He has either a laser or a flashlight mounted, maybe both.

    It’s the cheap suppressor that worries me, tho’, and not because it’s inexpensive.

    • #14
  15. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    Another illustration of why I have always had great respect, sympathy and admiration for police officers (even as they are writing me a ticket); they never know what they are going to encounter when they make a “routine” stop.

    I was working a marked prostitution car, marked means light bar, and logo. Johns’ are laser focused on sex, they tend to ignore what should be obvious. I see a prostitute get into his car, and then I follow his vehicle and when it turns down a side street I turn on the red and blues, and the takedown lights.

    The prostitute bails, and runs. I arrested him and toss his car. I see a hand grenade underneath the drivers seat. The pin is in place, and there are no markings indicating it is dummy, or training grenade. I put the grenade on the drivers seat, and then asked the dispatcher to contact a member of the bomb squad.

    I was not high on the bomb squad officer’s Christmas card list at 0300 hours until he saw the grenade. He warmed-up to me when he discovered that all the grenade needed was a primer.

    My perp asked both of us if he would get the grenade back, the answer was no. Then my perp said what am I going to tell my wife. I replied; “Give me her phone number and I’ll call her and I’ll explain the whole situation”. He told me he didn’t want me to talk to her. 

    • #15
  16. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    Another illustration of why I have always had great respect, sympathy and admiration for police officers (even as they are writing me a ticket); they never know what they are going to encounter when they make a “routine” stop.

    I was working a marked prostitution car, marked means light bar, and logo. Johns’ are laser focused on sex, they tend to ignore what should be obvious. I see a prostitute get into his car, and then I follow his vehicle and when it turns down a side street I turn on the red and blues, and the takedown lights.

    The prostitute bails, and runs. I arrested him and toss his car. I see a hand grenade underneath the drivers seat. The pin is in place, and there are no markings indicating it is dummy, or training grenade. I put the grenade on the drivers seat, and then asked the dispatcher to contact a member of the bomb squad.

    I was not high on the bomb squad officer’s Christmas card list at 0300 hours until he saw the grenade. He warmed-up to me when he discovered that all the grenade needed was a primer.

    My perp asked both of us if he would get the grenade back, the answer was no. Then my perp said what am I going to tell my wife. I replied; “Give me her phone number and I’ll call her and I’ll explain the whole situation”. He told me he didn’t want me to talk to her.

    If a guy can’t say, “Honey, the fuzz swiped your hand grenade, but I promise to buy you a dozen long-pinned grenades for next anniversary,” he doesn’t deserve to be married. 

    • #16
  17. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    This is why I was completely baffled by cities pushing in 2020 and early 2021 to stop having full police officers do traffic stops and have traffic enforcement done only by unarmed traffic citation clerks.

    Percival (View Comment):

    Doug Watt:

    It should come as no surprise that someone who is breaking the small laws might be breaking the big laws. I’ve stopped individuals that had outstanding warrants. The warrant is a court order and when you give the dispatcher a person’s name and date of birth the dispatcher will inform you if they have a warrant. The very next question is are they in custody?

     

    That’s what Giuliani’s point was with busting turnstile jumpers. Some of them had felony warrants.

    Traffic stops can be used as a tool to find individuals that are wanted on warrants. Traffic stops can be dangerous. It is one thing for parking enforcement when no driver is present, and entirely different to stop someone on a moving violation. 

    • #17
  18. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    TBA (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    Another illustration of why I have always had great respect, sympathy and admiration for police officers (even as they are writing me a ticket); they never know what they are going to encounter when they make a “routine” stop.

    I was working a marked prostitution car, marked means light bar, and logo. Johns’ are laser focused on sex, they tend to ignore what should be obvious. I see a prostitute get into his car, and then I follow his vehicle and when it turns down a side street I turn on the red and blues, and the takedown lights.

    The prostitute bails, and runs. I arrested him and toss his car. I see a hand grenade underneath the drivers seat. The pin is in place, and there are no markings indicating it is dummy, or training grenade. I put the grenade on the drivers seat, and then asked the dispatcher to contact a member of the bomb squad.

    I was not high on the bomb squad officer’s Christmas card list at 0300 hours until he saw the grenade. He warmed-up to me when he discovered that all the grenade needed was a primer.

    My perp asked both of us if he would get the grenade back, the answer was no. Then my perp said what am I going to tell my wife. I replied; “Give me her phone number and I’ll call her and I’ll explain the whole situation”. He told me he didn’t want me to talk to her.

    If a guy can’t say, “Honey, the fuzz swiped your hand grenade, but I promise to buy you a dozen long-pinned grenades for next anniversary,” he doesn’t deserve to be married.

    Which anniversary is supposed to be hand-thrown, explosive anti-personnel devices? Twelfth, isn’t it?

    • #18
  19. TBA Coolidge
    TBA
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Percival (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    Another illustration of why I have always had great respect, sympathy and admiration for police officers (even as they are writing me a ticket); they never know what they are going to encounter when they make a “routine” stop.

    I was working a marked prostitution car, marked means light bar, and logo. Johns’ are laser focused on sex, they tend to ignore what should be obvious. I see a prostitute get into his car, and then I follow his vehicle and when it turns down a side street I turn on the red and blues, and the takedown lights.

    The prostitute bails, and runs. I arrested him and toss his car. I see a hand grenade underneath the drivers seat. The pin is in place, and there are no markings indicating it is dummy, or training grenade. I put the grenade on the drivers seat, and then asked the dispatcher to contact a member of the bomb squad.

    I was not high on the bomb squad officer’s Christmas card list at 0300 hours until he saw the grenade. He warmed-up to me when he discovered that all the grenade needed was a primer.

    My perp asked both of us if he would get the grenade back, the answer was no. Then my perp said what am I going to tell my wife. I replied; “Give me her phone number and I’ll call her and I’ll explain the whole situation”. He told me he didn’t want me to talk to her.

    If a guy can’t say, “Honey, the fuzz swiped your hand grenade, but I promise to buy you a dozen long-pinned grenades for next anniversary,” he doesn’t deserve to be married.

    Which anniversary is supposed to be hand-thrown, explosive anti-personnel devices? Twelfth, isn’t it?

    Yes and it is often every bit as romantic as the original shotgun wedding. 

    • #19
  20. DaveSchmidt Coolidge
    DaveSchmidt
    @DaveSchmidt

    Percival (View Comment):

    TBA (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Jim McConnell (View Comment):

    Another illustration of why I have always had great respect, sympathy and admiration for police officers (even as they are writing me a ticket); they never know what they are going to encounter when they make a “routine” stop.

    I was working a marked prostitution car, marked means light bar, and logo. Johns’ are laser focused on sex, they tend to ignore what should be obvious. I see a prostitute get into his car, and then I follow his vehicle and when it turns down a side street I turn on the red and blues, and the takedown lights.

    The prostitute bails, and runs. I arrested him and toss his car. I see a hand grenade underneath the drivers seat. The pin is in place, and there are no markings indicating it is dummy, or training grenade. I put the grenade on the drivers seat, and then asked the dispatcher to contact a member of the bomb squad.

    I was not high on the bomb squad officer’s Christmas card list at 0300 hours until he saw the grenade. He warmed-up to me when he discovered that all the grenade needed was a primer.

    My perp asked both of us if he would get the grenade back, the answer was no. Then my perp said what am I going to tell my wife. I replied; “Give me her phone number and I’ll call her and I’ll explain the whole situation”. He told me he didn’t want me to talk to her.

    If a guy can’t say, “Honey, the fuzz swiped your hand grenade, but I promise to buy you a dozen long-pinned grenades for next anniversary,” he doesn’t deserve to be married.

    Which anniversary is supposed to be hand-thrown, explosive anti-personnel devices? Twelfth, isn’t it?

    7th I hear

    • #20
  21. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Barfly (View Comment):

    I believe that rifle is a Tavor. The 7.62 version costs close to $2000.00 retail in the U.S. They aren’t common, but aren’t terribly unusual either. His optic is medium-quality, not cheap either. He has either a laser or a flashlight mounted, maybe both.

    It’s the cheap suppressor that worries me, tho’, and not because it’s inexpensive.

    Because it melts after three rounds?

    • #21
  22. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    I’m sorry, I’m not going to get all happy about using a silly traffic stop to bother people in the hopes of finding, maybe, someone avoiding a warrant.  Sure, they’re bad people that have these warrants, but it’s pretty unamerican to be trolling for warrants among the peaceful populace, especially when you consider that anyone can be pulled over for something, imagined* or real.  

     

    *  Just to be clear, the term “imagined” is just a polite term for what really happens in some jurisdictions or neighborhoods.

    • #22
  23. DonG (CAGW is a hoax) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a hoax)
    @DonG

    Skyler (View Comment):
    I’m sorry, I’m not going to get all happy about using a silly traffic stop to bother people in the hopes of finding, maybe, someone avoiding a warrant.

    Silly is bad.  Legit is good. 

    • #23
  24. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    I’m sorry, I’m not going to get all happy about using a silly traffic stop to bother people in the hopes of finding, maybe, someone avoiding a warrant.

    Silly is bad. Legit is good.

    And we never will know the difference.

    • #24
  25. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Skyler (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    I’m sorry, I’m not going to get all happy about using a silly traffic stop to bother people in the hopes of finding, maybe, someone avoiding a warrant.

    Silly is bad. Legit is good.

    And we never will know the difference.

    I guess I’m curious as to what would make the one described “legit” in your eyes.  Would the prostitute have to be charged, tried, and convicted in court before the car can be pulled over?  Or maybe the conviction has to be appealed and upheld before the car can be pulled over?

    • #25
  26. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    I’m sorry, I’m not going to get all happy about using a silly traffic stop to bother people in the hopes of finding, maybe, someone avoiding a warrant.

    Silly is bad. Legit is good.

    And we never will know the difference.

    I guess I’m curious as to what would make the one described “legit” in your eyes. Would the prostitute have to be charged, tried, and convicted in court before the car can be pulled over? Or maybe the conviction has to be appealed and upheld before the car can be pulled over?

    I’m not going to play that game.  If there is a real crime, then so be it.  However, there is little incentive to require the police to have a good reason to pull a car over.  That’s what the law says, but we know that some police see someone they wish to pull over and blatantly lie to pull their car over.

    • #26
  27. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Skyler (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):

    DonG (CAGW is a hoax) (View Comment):

    Skyler (View Comment):
    I’m sorry, I’m not going to get all happy about using a silly traffic stop to bother people in the hopes of finding, maybe, someone avoiding a warrant.

    Silly is bad. Legit is good.

    And we never will know the difference.

    I guess I’m curious as to what would make the one described “legit” in your eyes. Would the prostitute have to be charged, tried, and convicted in court before the car can be pulled over? Or maybe the conviction has to be appealed and upheld before the car can be pulled over?

    I’m not going to play that game. If there is a real crime, then so be it. However, there is little incentive to require the police to have a good reason to pull a car over. That’s what the law says, but we know that some police see someone they wish to pull over and blatantly lie to pull their car over.

    Well dash cams etc are dealing with a good deal of that.  Obviously it won’t stop them from pulling you over if they want to, as I often remind people, no great hand comes down from the sky to force anyone to do the right thing.  But it’s evidence that whatever excuse they made up, isn’t true, and so they might get fired for false reporting, although at this point that could mean they just go to work in the next town.  There needs to be better enforcement of that kind of thing, which usually means electing better mayors etc.  Again, no great hand comes down from the sky to force police chiefs and mayors to do the right thing either.  You can find a lot of youtube videos where dash cams proved cops were lying.  And that means even if the driver was cited for something, it was dismissed.

    • #27
  28. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    kedavis (View Comment):
    But it’s evidence that whatever excuse they made up, isn’t true, and so they might get fired for false reporting, although at this point that could mean they just go to work in the next town. 

    And what if they’re lying?  The courts have given police “qualified immunity” which makes it very hard to hold them responsible.

    The problem is that there are many principled police officers and a lot of unprincipled ones.  When you get pulled over you can’t tell the difference, and since they tend to have absolute power in any situation, it’s inevitable that they will, at least from time to time, abuse their power.

    Until we can hold them personally liable for committing their own crimes, it’s best not to trust them.

    • #28
  29. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Skyler (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    But it’s evidence that whatever excuse they made up, isn’t true, and so they might get fired for false reporting, although at this point that could mean they just go to work in the next town.

    And what if they’re lying? The courts have given police “qualified immunity” which makes it very hard to hold them responsible.

    The problem is that there are many principled police officers and a lot of unprincipled ones. When you get pulled over you can’t tell the difference, and since they tend to have absolute power in any situation, it’s inevitable that they will, at least from time to time, abuse their power.

    Until we can hold them personally liable for committing their own crimes, it’s best not to trust them.

    Oh, the videos are often about that too.  On the plus side, if dash cams etc mean they can’t get away with it, that seems to lead to less abuse.  Why bother if it’s not going to work?  Something like the “fruit of the poisonous tree” thing in 4th and 5th Amendment cases.  Removing the value of improper searches, means they’re less likely to happen.

    Yes, it would be nice if they behaved anyway, but it’s the Left who believes they can create Paradise On Earth.

    • #29
  30. Skyler Coolidge
    Skyler
    @Skyler

    kedavis (View Comment):
    On the plus side, if dash cams etc mean they can’t get away with it, that seems to lead to less abuse. 

    Dash cams do not stop police from behaving badly.  There is no consequence unless their employer wants there to be a consequence.  You can’t successfully sue a cop for violating your rights or assaulting you or shooting you dead when they get the wrong address on a warrant.  Why should they be careful, beyond simple human decency?  They have qualified immunity, they get unfunded money from seizing it from people they meet, whether they think a crime is committed or not.

    Cops are in a bad situation.  They can take all your possessions without you committing a crime or even due process, they are immune to prosecution or even civil liability for any crime they might commit.  There is no incentive for them to follow the law or not violate people’s rights.  Until that is fixed, it is inappropriate to trust them.

    • #30