Johns Hopkins Doc: Natural Immunity Is Superior to Vaccine; Biden Admin Has it Backwards

 

The Biden Administration’s refusal to acknowledge the relevance of natural immunity in the fight against COVID-19 has become glaring.

The administration that begins every discussion about the virus that has now changed the world by saying they are following the science, is actually engaging in willful blindness.

Hellbent on enforcing their COVID vaccine mandate, they deliberately ignore every scientific study that finds natural immunity to be superior to vaccine immunity.

Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine professor Dr. Marty Makary appeared as a guest on Thursday’s edition of “Morning Wire,” a podcast hosted by The Daily Wire.

“The data on natural immunity are now overwhelming,” Makary told the Morning Wire. “It turns out the hypothesis that our public health leaders had that vaccinated immunity is better and stronger than natural immunity was wrong. They got it backwards. And now we’ve got data from Israel showing that natural immunity is 27 times more effective than vaccinated immunity. And that supports 15 other studies.”

Despised by the left for his criticism of the vaccine mandate, Makary finds it “bizarre” that natural immunity is not seen as legitimate in the eyes of the U.S. government.

“It’s ruining the lives of people who are getting fired,” he said. “Nurses, who are heroes, are now getting laid off. Soldiers are getting dishonorably discharged. They’ve got immunity. It’s just not the type that our public health officials have sanctioned.”

“This is a failure of government, not a failure of science,” he declared. “But how about some flexibility? How about recognizing natural immunity and allowing those who have circulating antibodies to get credit. That’s how they do it in parts of Europe, and that’s how they do it in Israel.”

Makary claimed that the recent drop-off in COVID cases can be attributed to both the tens of millions of Americans who have already had the virus and those who have been vaccinated.

The government refuses to acknowledge that the natural immunity acquired from having had COVID has played any role at all in moving us closer and faster to the desired goal of herd immunity. Makary is essentially saying natural immunity has played an enormous role.

This point is compelling and has been underreported.

“That decline [in new cases of COVID] is really natural immunity kicking in,” Makary explained. “What we’re seeing is that when a very few people in a population are susceptible, that is almost everybody has either had COVID or the vaccine. You do see this rapid decline. It’s basically a part of herd immunity kicking in.”

He believes “we’re done with the surges. What we may see is bumping cases, seasonally, depending on pockets of the country where there’s low immunity rates. And remember: breakthrough infections are real. They will happen, but they have downgraded COVID from a major public health threat to a mild, common, cold like illness.”

Makary feels that the vaccines are safe and that complications are “exceedingly rare.” I know a few people who might disagree with that assessment.

At any rate, Makary told the Morning Wire, “When I talked to doctors nationwide, it’s pretty clear that the vaccine related complications are exceedingly rare and the vaccines we have are safer than any other vaccine we’ve ever had in the past. And I think if you if you’re on the fence about getting vaccinated, you want to do it right now, like today, because we are getting to a point where it’s so contagious, it’s ripping through the population pretty quickly.”

The consequences of the government’s rejection of natural immunity as a valid reason to skip the vaccine have become apparent throughout the country, particularly in the health care industry and at all levels of law enforcement.

Democrats pushing Biden’s misguided blanket vaccine mandate all parrot the same old tired line, ‘we follow the science.’ That’s nonsense. It has nothing to do with science and everything to do with politics. The politics of power and control.

In a September op-ed published in The Washington Post, Makary wrote, “It’s okay to have an incorrect scientific hypothesis. But when new data proves it wrong, you have to adapt. Unfortunately, many elected leaders and public health officials have held on far too long to the hypothesis that natural immunity offers unreliable protection against covid-19 — a contention that is being rapidly debunked by science.”

Makary argued that over 15 studies have confirmed the power of natural immunity.

He cited the recent 700,000-person Israeli study which found that those who had recovered from COVID “were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.”

The results of the Israeli study, Makary wrote, confirmed the findings of a Cleveland Clinic study released in June. None of the healthcare workers who had previously contracted the virus were reinfected. The research team concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.”

And the Cleveland Clinic’s results, he noted, affirmed the conclusions of a Washington University study, conducted in May, which “found that even a mild covid infection resulted in long-lasting immunity.”

Maybe it’s time for the Biden Administration to take politics out of it and actually look at the science.

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Published in Healthcare
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  1. Nohaaj Coolidge
    Nohaaj
    @Nohaaj

    And the Biden administration is piling on with the totally unscientific, jackboot thuggery of implementing massive penalties and sanctions for private companies that do not require 100% vax compliance. 

    • #1
  2. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    Elizabeth Vaughn: “This is a failure of government, not a failure of science,”

    This tells us that the mandates are not for medical or public health reasons, but for some other reason.   I think that reason is nefarious.  Some things show incompetence and some things show evil, but some things demonstrate both evil and incompetence.

    • #2
  3. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    Here is the latest confrontation of medical authorities on this very subject by Rand Paul, this time vs. Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra.  Becerra, typically, just stonewalls without honest discussion like most brain-dead democrats.

    • #3
  4. David Foster Member
    David Foster
    @DavidFoster

    Where are the links to the Israeli study and the Cleveland Clinic study?

    • #4
  5. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I have two questions.

    The first question is: Would someone please link to the Israeli study referenced by Dr. Makary?  It may be linked in the WaPo article referenced, but that one is behind a paywall.

    The second question is: Does the science now support a vaccine mandate with an exception for the previously infected?

    • #5
  6. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    Does the science now support a vaccine mandate

    no.  no conditions are required.   

    • #6
  7. Nohaaj Coolidge
    Nohaaj
    @Nohaaj

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I have two questions.

    The first question is: Would someone please link to the Israeli study referenced by Dr. Makary? It may be linked in the WaPo article referenced, but that one is behind a paywall.

    The second question is: Does the science now support a vaccine mandate with an exception for the previously infected?

    I believe this is the referenced study 

    • #7
  8. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    Cleveland Clinic study here.

    Summary Cumulative incidence of COVID-19 was examined among 52238 employees in an American healthcare system. COVID-19 did not occur in anyone over the five months of the study among 2579 individuals previously infected with COVID-19, including 1359 who did not take the vaccine.

    Israeli study here.

    Conclusions This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

    (For each link, landing pages begins with abstract; use buttons to navigate to full study.)

    • #8
  9. David Foster Member
    David Foster
    @DavidFoster

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):
    Cleveland Clinic study here.

    Thanks.  Has anyone seen any follow-up to these studies, either confirmation or critique?

    I note again the analysis of Israeli data which demonstrates extremely strong protection against Severe Cases for those who have been vaxxed vs unvaxxed…eg, 16:1 for those in the 40-49 age group.  The data did not make it possible to break out the Previously Infected, but the study author argues persuasively that many of the Unvaxxed were previously infected.

    https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated

    • #9
  10. David Foster Member
    David Foster
    @DavidFoster

    There’s lots more relevant analysis at the site I linked above re the Israeli study:

    https://www.covid-datascience.com/

    …the author is a PhD statistician, and his analyses seem to me to be sensible and objectively-done.

    • #10
  11. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I have two questions.

    SNIP

    The second question is: Does the science now support a vaccine mandate with an exception for the previously infected?

    What science? Any one who thinks the same group of people who prevented the promotion and distribution of actual remedies and then after doing that stated only the vaccines would bring us the ability to “return to normal” should still  remain in place is either ignorant or getting paid. By now, in a decent society, Fauci would be under indictment for aggravated murder.

    After all, under Fauci’s direction, whenever a patient entered the hospital, huge amounts of pressure were put on that individual to sign on to a “Do not resuscitate”order and to go on a ventilator. With 90% of all patients put on the vents ending up in a body bag. (One nurse who went to the media stated that the only patient she knew of who survived the vent had pulled the tube out in order to save his life.)

    Also under Fauci, to further prevent ability of doctors to obliterate COVID, on Oct 8th or 9th 2020, the official guidelines of the CDC/NIH promoted the admonishment that doctors were not to treat their patients who complained of what might be COVID indications but instead, doctors were to wait til the patient had gone to the ER, then been put in the ICU on a ventilator.

    Here is one of the most excellent summaries I have read to date of the many huge dangers relating to the vaccines. I have to wonder about the sanity of people accepting the continuation of last year’s Red Chinese-based COVID attitudes rather than early treatment with real remedies. (It shakes me to the core that people here who were willing to accept that the fake-y videos released by Red China about people keeling over in the street from COVID are dubious of excellent compendiums of stats on success of ivermectin against COVID  in Uttar Pradesh, India. India is an ally – I thought Red China was not.)

    Kathy Ropp’s scholarly treatise on  dangers of the COV vaccines:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20211002205954/http://kathydopp.info/COVIDinfo/Vaccines/VaccineADE

    • #11
  12. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Elizabeth, I can’t access Makary’s WaPo article, which is behind a paywall, so I am relying on you to have accurately reported what he wrote.

    Having reviewed the Israeli study — thanks for the link, Nohaaj and 9th — I think that one of Makary’s points is well supported.  The Israeli study does support the hypothesis that infection confers greater immunity than the current two-shot Pfizer vaccination regimen.  Note that this study evaluated only the Pfizer vaccine and did not evaluate vaccination effectiveness after a third shot.

    However, I think that Makary is cherry-picking data, and this hurts his overall credibility, in my view.  You report Makary’s argument as:

    Elizabeth Vaughn:

    He cited the recent 700,000-person Israeli study which found that those who had recovered from COVID “were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.”

    That is correct, for one of the two relevant models in the Israeli paper (the third model is discussed next).  However, there were different results for different models and different levels of infection (any infection, symptomatic, hospitalization).  The increased protection for the previously infected, compared to the vaccinated, ranged from a low of 5.96 times to a high of 27.02 times.

    By cherry-picking the highest figure of 27 times, apparently without acknowledging the other, lower figures reported in the paper, I find that Makary’s argument loses credibility.  This is particularly disturbing because a fair report would still have supported his thesis.  The Israeli paper strongly supports the conclusion that natural immunity is many times stronger than immunity from the vaccine.  Prior infection is estimated to provide between 6 and 27 times more protection than vaccination, in this particular study.

    Makary’s argument about the benefit of vaccination after infection is more troubling.  You report that he argued:

    Elizabeth Vaughn:

    The results of the Israeli study, Makary wrote, confirmed the findings of a Cleveland Clinic study released in June. None of the healthcare workers who had previously contracted the virus were reinfected. The research team concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.”

    Well, this is actually contradicted by the Israeli study.  The conclusion of the Israeli study on this issue was:

    Individuals who were previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 seem to gain additional protection from a subsequent single-dose vaccine regimen. Though this finding corresponds to previous reports, we could not demonstrate significance in our cohort.

    This suggests some benefit to vaccination, even after prior infection, though not necessarily a very large benefit.

    The study also noted that “the results could suggest waning natural immunity against the Delta variant,” though natural immunity remained stronger than vaccine-induced immunity.

    So I think that the picture isn’t quite as clear as Makary suggests.  However, his main point — that natural immunity appears to be stronger than vaccine-induced immunity — is well-supported.

    • #12
  13. Norm McDonald Bought The Farm Coolidge
    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm
    @Pseudodionysius

    https://rumble.com/vhp8e1-massive-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html

    https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay

    Dr. Peter McCullough is COVID recovered and regularly treats “red hot” COVID infected patients who are coughing all over him, even without PPE, and he has not suffered re-infection. To quote him “natural immunity is robust, long lasting and durable”.

    • #13
  14. Norm McDonald Bought The Farm Coolidge
    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm
    @Pseudodionysius

    • #14
  15. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Nohaaj (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I have two questions.

    The first question is: Would someone please link to the Israeli study referenced by Dr. Makary? It may be linked in the WaPo article referenced, but that one is behind a paywall.

    The second question is: Does the science now support a vaccine mandate with an exception for the previously infected?

    I believe this is the referenced study

    BTW-It also shows that boosters work for those with a prior COVID infection …..

    • #15
  16. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    https://rumble.com/vhp8e1-massive-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html

    https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay

    Dr. Peter McCullough is COVID recovered and regularly treats “red hot” COVID infected patients who are coughing all over him, even without PPE, and he has not suffered re-infection. To quote him “natural immunity is robust, long lasting and durable”.

    Really?- cardiologists typically don’t treat COVID patients and since he apparently isn’t currently affiliated with any hospitals it is hard to see how he treats any sick patients.

     

     

     

    • #16
  17. Norm McDonald Bought The Farm Coolidge
    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm
    @Pseudodionysius

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    https://rumble.com/vhp8e1-massive-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html

    https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay

    Dr. Peter McCullough is COVID recovered and regularly treats “red hot” COVID infected patients who are coughing all over him, even without PPE, and he has not suffered re-infection. To quote him “natural immunity is robust, long lasting and durable”.

    Really?- cardiologists typically don’t treat COVID patients and since he apparently isn’t currently affiliated with any hospitals it is hard to see how he treats any sick patients.

    You should listen to his podcast then. Of course, I also have his cell number if you’d like to call and ask.

     

     

     

     

    • #17
  18. Norm McDonald Bought The Farm Coolidge
    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm
    @Pseudodionysius

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    https://rumble.com/vhp8e1-massive-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html

    https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay

    Dr. Peter McCullough is COVID recovered and regularly treats “red hot” COVID infected patients who are coughing all over him, even without PPE, and he has not suffered re-infection. To quote him “natural immunity is robust, long lasting and durable”.

    Really?- cardiologists typically don’t treat COVID patients and since he apparently isn’t currently affiliated with any hospitals it is hard to see how he treats any sick patients.

    https://www.heartplace.com/dr-peter-a-mccullough

     

     

     

    • #18
  19. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    https://rumble.com/vhp8e1-massive-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html

    https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay

    Dr. Peter McCullough is COVID recovered and regularly treats “red hot” COVID infected patients who are coughing all over him, even without PPE, and he has not suffered re-infection. To quote him “natural immunity is robust, long lasting and durable”.

    Really?- cardiologists typically don’t treat COVID patients and since he apparently isn’t currently affiliated with any hospitals it is hard to see how he treats any sick patients.

    https://www.heartplace.com/dr-peter-a-mccullough

     

     

     

    It makes sense. Heart patients are going to be high-risk by definition.

    • #19
  20. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Percival (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    https://rumble.com/vhp8e1-massive-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html

    https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay

    Dr. Peter McCullough is COVID recovered and regularly treats “red hot” COVID infected patients who are coughing all over him, even without PPE, and he has not suffered re-infection. To quote him “natural immunity is robust, long lasting and durable”.

    Really?- cardiologists typically don’t treat COVID patients and since he apparently isn’t currently affiliated with any hospitals it is hard to see how he treats any sick patients.

    https://www.heartplace.com/dr-peter-a-mccullough

    It makes sense. Heart patients are going to be high-risk by definition.

    No it doesn’t-cardiologists treat cardiovascular problems- sick COVID patients are primarily treated by intensivists and pulmonologists and infectious disease physicians. Cardiac critical care (CCU) is typically not the same unit as the medical ICU(MICU) which is the primary place to treat respiratory and infection problems-ie ARDS/MSOF which is the killer in COVID. As a matter of fact- the cardiologists do not like “their” unit to get COVID patients b/c it then limits their ability to use the CCU. Since cardiology and cardiac surgery are cash cows, the last adult intensive care unit that typically gets COVID patients IS the CCU.

    • #20
  21. Norm McDonald Bought The Farm Coolidge
    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm
    @Pseudodionysius

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    https://rumble.com/vhp8e1-massive-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html

    https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay

    Dr. Peter McCullough is COVID recovered and regularly treats “red hot” COVID infected patients who are coughing all over him, even without PPE, and he has not suffered re-infection. To quote him “natural immunity is robust, long lasting and durable”.

    Really?- cardiologists typically don’t treat COVID patients and since he apparently isn’t currently affiliated with any hospitals it is hard to see how he treats any sick patients.

    https://www.heartplace.com/dr-peter-a-mccullough

    It makes sense. Heart patients are going to be high-risk by definition.

    No it doesn’t-cardiologists treat cardiovascular problems- sick COVID patients are primarily treated by intensivists and pulmonologists and infectious disease physicians. Cardiac critical care (CCU) is typically not the same unit as the medical ICU(MICU) which is the primary place to treat respiratory and infection problems-ie ARDS/MSOF which is the killer in COVID. As a matter of fact- the cardiologists do not like “their” unit to get COVID patients b/c it then limits their ability to use the CCU. Since cardiology and cardiac surgery are cash cows, the last adult intensive care unit that typically gets COVID patients IS the CCU.

    You seem to not be following the argument very well. The whole point physicians like Dr. McCullough have been making is “early treatment” to keep them OUT OF THE HOSPITAL. Therefore, they treat them at home, the doctor’s office, or an out patient clinic instead of “no, there’s nothing I can do for you. If you start to turn blue, go to the ER.”

    • #21
  22. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    https://rumble.com/vhp8e1-massive-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html

    https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay

    Dr. Peter McCullough is COVID recovered and regularly treats “red hot” COVID infected patients who are coughing all over him, even without PPE, and he has not suffered re-infection. To quote him “natural immunity is robust, long lasting and durable”.

    Really?- cardiologists typically don’t treat COVID patients and since he apparently isn’t currently affiliated with any hospitals it is hard to see how he treats any sick patients.

    https://www.heartplace.com/dr-peter-a-mccullough

    It makes sense. Heart patients are going to be high-risk by definition.

    No it doesn’t-cardiologists treat cardiovascular problems- sick COVID patients are primarily treated by intensivists and pulmonologists and infectious disease physicians. Cardiac critical care (CCU) is typically not the same unit as the medical ICU(MICU) which is the primary place to treat respiratory and infection problems-ie ARDS/MSOF which is the killer in COVID. As a matter of fact- the cardiologists do not like “their” unit to get COVID patients b/c it then limits their ability to use the CCU. Since cardiology and cardiac surgery are cash cows, the last adult intensive care unit that typically gets COVID patients IS the CCU.

    You seem to not be following the argument very well. The whole point physicians like Dr. McCullough have been making is “early treatment” to keep them OUT OF THE HOSPITAL. Therefore, they treat them at home, the doctor’s office, or an out patient clinic instead of “no, there’s nothing I can do for you. If you start to turn blue, go to the ER.”

    You don’t seem to understand the practice of medicine very well.

    1)The early treatment claims are, by their very nature, the most difficult to prove- and he is not providing significant data in the talks I have seen him give. Since the vast majority of outpatient COVID positive patients will not get seriously ill, almost all of them will get better with tincture of time or any therapy you choose. That was the problem with so many of the HCQ claims early on.

    2) typically, cardiologists do not see outpatients with URI symptoms- ie runny noses-ie early COVID. His practice would have to have been very unusual-typically cardiologists avoid such outpatients if at all possible.

    • #22
  23. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Since the Biden Administration is now spreading false information about the Covid vaccines and infection, does that mean that they are banned from Google and YouTube?

    • #23
  24. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    https://rumble.com/vhp8e1-massive-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html

    https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay

    Dr. Peter McCullough is COVID recovered and regularly treats “red hot” COVID infected patients who are coughing all over him, even without PPE, and he has not suffered re-infection. To quote him “natural immunity is robust, long lasting and durable”.

    Really?- cardiologists typically don’t treat COVID patients and since he apparently isn’t currently affiliated with any hospitals it is hard to see how he treats any sick patients.

    https://www.heartplace.com/dr-peter-a-mccullough

    It makes sense. Heart patients are going to be high-risk by definition.

    No it doesn’t-cardiologists treat cardiovascular problems- sick COVID patients are primarily treated by intensivists and pulmonologists and infectious disease physicians. Cardiac critical care (CCU) is typically not the same unit as the medical ICU(MICU) which is the primary place to treat respiratory and infection problems-ie ARDS/MSOF which is the killer in COVID. As a matter of fact- the cardiologists do not like “their” unit to get COVID patients b/c it then limits their ability to use the CCU. Since cardiology and cardiac surgery are cash cows, the last adult intensive care unit that typically gets COVID patients IS the CCU.

    You seem to not be following the argument very well. The whole point physicians like Dr. McCullough have been making is “early treatment” to keep them OUT OF THE HOSPITAL. Therefore, they treat them at home, the doctor’s office, or an out patient clinic instead of “no, there’s nothing I can do for you. If you start to turn blue, go to the ER.”

    Yeah.  He didn’t watch the video, did he.  The whole point is that home treatment prevents ICU admission, and pulmonologists, ventilation, and delay in treatment until the body is in ARDS and treating the virus makes no difference.

    • #24
  25. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    https://rumble.com/vhp8e1-massive-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html

    https://rumble.com/vhp7y5-full-interview-world-renowned-doctor-blows-lid-off-of-covid-vaccine.html?mref=6gby3&mc=98uay

    Dr. Peter McCullough is COVID recovered and regularly treats “red hot” COVID infected patients who are coughing all over him, even without PPE, and he has not suffered re-infection. To quote him “natural immunity is robust, long lasting and durable”.

    Really?- cardiologists typically don’t treat COVID patients and since he apparently isn’t currently affiliated with any hospitals it is hard to see how he treats any sick patients.

    https://www.heartplace.com/dr-peter-a-mccullough

    It makes sense. Heart patients are going to be high-risk by definition.

    No it doesn’t-cardiologists treat cardiovascular problems- sick COVID patients are primarily treated by intensivists and pulmonologists and infectious disease physicians. Cardiac critical care (CCU) is typically not the same unit as the medical ICU(MICU) which is the primary place to treat respiratory and infection problems-ie ARDS/MSOF which is the killer in COVID. As a matter of fact- the cardiologists do not like “their” unit to get COVID patients b/c it then limits their ability to use the CCU. Since cardiology and cardiac surgery are cash cows, the last adult intensive care unit that typically gets COVID patients IS the CCU.

    You seem to not be following the argument very well. The whole point physicians like Dr. McCullough have been making is “early treatment” to keep them OUT OF THE HOSPITAL. Therefore, they treat them at home, the doctor’s office, or an out patient clinic instead of “no, there’s nothing I can do for you. If you start to turn blue, go to the ER.”

    Yeah. He didn’t watch the video, did he. The whole point is that home treatment prevents ICU admission, and pulmonologists, ventilation, and delay in treatment until the body is in ARDS and treating the virus makes no difference.

    I have watched several of his presentations and found them unconvincing and a complete waste of time. Presenting a therapeutic rational isn’t the same as providing evidence of efficacy. At this point viewing his videos only serves to add to his click bait and ad revenue- do I need to add he is crowdfunding as a source of income as well. Linus Pauling was bright and had a therapeutic rational for Vitamin C as the cure for everything,  what he lacked was proof- and similarly once the facts were in the hype disappeared. McCullough may get lucky about ivermectin- but if he is right it is just luck- a broken clock is right twice a day.

    • #25
  26. Norm McDonald Bought The Farm Coolidge
    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm
    @Pseudodionysius

    Linus Pauling was bright and had a therapeutic rational for Vitamin C as the cure for everything,  what he lacked was proof- and similarly once the facts were in the hype disappeared

    VITAMIN C AND SEVERE INFLUENZA: A CASE REPORT
    While the scientific literature has abundant documentation of the ability of vitamin C to cure a number of viruses considered to be incurable (Stone, 1972; Smith, 1988, Levy, 2002), I feel it is always of benefit to health care practitioners who are still a bit reluctant to freely give large doses of vitamin C to hear of yet another dramatic case report. In this particular case report, the viral infection had reached the point of being life-threatening, even though it was afflicting a young woman who previously had always been in notoriously good health.

    F.M., a 26-year-old massage therapist from Scotland, was in her baseline state of robust health when she gradually began to notice a persistent fatigue that lasted for an entire month. Other than this fatigue, however, she had yet noticed no other problems. After a month of this fatigue, she then fell ill quite rapidly with classical flu-like symptoms, including fever, chills, muscle aches and pains, headaches, and nausea. This syndrome occurred in Denver, Colorado, the epicenter of a flu epidemic that had already infected over 6,000 people statewide and killed over ten children and infants. She fought these symptoms as bravely as she could for seven to ten days by trying to continue her usual activities of going to school. However, by the time this period had passed, she only had the energy to stay in bed.

    • #26
  27. Norm McDonald Bought The Farm Coolidge
    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm
    @Pseudodionysius

    do I need to add he is crowdfunding as a source of income as well.

    Hard to believe that just because he’s being stripped of all his journal editorial positions without due process, health system affiliations and all means of material support that he might have some need of funding.  The nerve!

    • #27
  28. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    Linus Pauling was bright and had a therapeutic rational for Vitamin C as the cure for everything, what he lacked was proof- and similarly once the facts were in the hype disappeared

    VITAMIN C AND SEVERE INFLUENZA: A CASE REPORT
    While the scientific literature has abundant documentation of the ability of vitamin C to cure a number of viruses considered to be incurable (Stone, 1972; Smith, 1988, Levy, 2002), I feel it is always of benefit to health care practitioners who are still a bit reluctant to freely give large doses of vitamin C to hear of yet another dramatic case report. In this particular case report, the viral infection had reached the point of being life-threatening, even though it was afflicting a young woman who previously had always been in notoriously good health.

    F.M., a 26-year-old massage therapist from Scotland, was in her baseline state of robust health when she gradually began to notice a persistent fatigue that lasted for an entire month. Other than this fatigue, however, she had yet noticed no other problems. After a month of this fatigue, she then fell ill quite rapidly with classical flu-like symptoms, including fever, chills, muscle aches and pains, headaches, and nausea. This syndrome occurred in Denver, Colorado, the epicenter of a flu epidemic that had already infected over 6,000 people statewide and killed over ten children and infants. She fought these symptoms as bravely as she could for seven to ten days by trying to continue her usual activities of going to school. However, by the time this period had passed, she only had the energy to stay in bed.

    a case report? Really, that its your standard of evidence? From a nut job doctors website? Who lists his High School graduation status on his CV? Who hasn’t been actively involved in hospital practice this century? My dentist routinely makes fun of those pushing the mercury amalgam conspiracy while examining my teeth-and this guy is still pushing that old canard.

    • #28
  29. Norm McDonald Bought The Farm Coolidge
    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm
    @Pseudodionysius

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    Linus Pauling was bright and had a therapeutic rational for Vitamin C as the cure for everything, what he lacked was proof- and similarly once the facts were in the hype disappeared

    VITAMIN C AND SEVERE INFLUENZA: A CASE REPORT
    While the scientific literature has abundant documentation of the ability of vitamin C to cure a number of viruses considered to be incurable (Stone, 1972; Smith, 1988, Levy, 2002), I feel it is always of benefit to health care practitioners who are still a bit reluctant to freely give large doses of vitamin C to hear of yet another dramatic case report. In this particular case report, the viral infection had reached the point of being life-threatening, even though it was afflicting a young woman who previously had always been in notoriously good health.

    F.M., a 26-year-old massage therapist from Scotland, was in her baseline state of robust health when she gradually began to notice a persistent fatigue that lasted for an entire month. Other than this fatigue, however, she had yet noticed no other problems. After a month of this fatigue, she then fell ill quite rapidly with classical flu-like symptoms, including fever, chills, muscle aches and pains, headaches, and nausea. This syndrome occurred in Denver, Colorado, the epicenter of a flu epidemic that had already infected over 6,000 people statewide and killed over ten children and infants. She fought these symptoms as bravely as she could for seven to ten days by trying to continue her usual activities of going to school. However, by the time this period had passed, she only had the energy to stay in bed.

    a case report? Really, that its your standard of evidence? From a nut job doctors website? Who lists his High School graduation status on his CV? Who hasn’t been actively involved in hospital practice this century? My dentist routinely makes fun of those pushing the mercury amalgam conspiracy while examining my teeth-and this guy is still pushing that old canard.

    If you’d bothered to look, which you haven’t, Levy always begins his standard lecture with the observation that a simple search of PubMed would turn up over 80,000 research studies on the efficacy of Vitamin C. 

    https://youtu.be/Y9SbPqO_Ay4

    • #29
  30. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Norm McDonald Bought The Farm (View Comment):

    Linus Pauling was bright and had a therapeutic rational for Vitamin C as the cure for everything, what he lacked was proof- and similarly once the facts were in the hype disappeared

    VITAMIN C AND SEVERE INFLUENZA: A CASE REPORT
    While the scientific literature has abundant documentation of the ability of vitamin C to cure a number of viruses considered to be incurable (Stone, 1972; Smith, 1988, Levy, 2002), I feel it is always of benefit to health care practitioners who are still a bit reluctant to freely give large doses of vitamin C to hear of yet another dramatic case report. In this particular case report, the viral infection had reached the point of being life-threatening, even though it was afflicting a young woman who previously had always been in notoriously good health.

    F.M., a 26-year-old massage therapist from Scotland, was in her baseline state of robust health when she gradually began to notice a persistent fatigue that lasted for an entire month. Other than this fatigue, however, she had yet noticed no other problems. After a month of this fatigue, she then fell ill quite rapidly with classical flu-like symptoms, including fever, chills, muscle aches and pains, headaches, and nausea. This syndrome occurred in Denver, Colorado, the epicenter of a flu epidemic that had already infected over 6,000 people statewide and killed over ten children and infants. She fought these symptoms as bravely as she could for seven to ten days by trying to continue her usual activities of going to school. However, by the time this period had passed, she only had the energy to stay in bed.

    a case report? Really, that its your standard of evidence? From a nut job doctors website? Who lists his High School graduation status on his CV? Who hasn’t been actively involved in hospital practice this century? My dentist routinely makes fun of those pushing the mercury amalgam conspiracy while examining my teeth-and this guy is still pushing that old canard.

    If you’d bothered to look, which you haven’t, Levy always begins his standard lecture with the observation that a simple search of PubMed would turn up over 80,000 research studies on the efficacy of Vitamin C.

    https://youtu.be/Y9SbPqO_Ay4

    Why would I waste my time with more videos by quacks- I have had more than enough with Malone, Blaylock, McCullough, and Mercola etc- no need to throw more time down a rat hole. Visiting their sites/YouTube just aides them.

    • #30