Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
How Do We Get More People to Get the Vaccine?
I am watching (I have not finished, I wanted to get my thoughts down right away…stupid memory) the latest episode of Good Fellows from the Hoover Institution. They are talking about the new wave of COVID-19 cases and vaccine hesitancy. John Cochrane implied that we need to have more businesses say they require vaccination, which I totally disagree with. Then when asked how they would get more people to take the vaccine H.R. McMaster said to tell them it’s not for them it’s for others, again I disagree with this. Niall Ferguson then says that people are vaccinated against the vaccine, and we need to do a better job of mocking the anti-vax memes and propaganda … yes, please!
Just to be clear, I and my husband, just got through a breakthrough case (probably Delta) after we were fully vaxxed in April. I get a flu shot every year and have been mocking anti-vaxxer’s for years. With that said, I am surrounded by friends and family that have no interest in getting the COVID vaccine and I don’t blame them.
We were told masks don’t work, but found out that was a ploy to stop people from using up the supply of N95s, then we were told that masks work, but to date have not seen any supporting data, but then that we need two (or was it three?) masks, but just mask up because it works. This whole pandemic and the CDC and other government health agencies have been used as political pawns for a year and a half. We were told to lock down for 15 days that turned into months for some, we were given curfews as if the virus was worse at night, I could go on and on with the mandates that had zero basis in data, all while the ones making the orders had different rules like Pelosi and her hair, and Newsom and his dinner … again, on and on with examples.
Right now, they are telling pregnant women to get an injection that is only nine months old, with no possible way to have data on the effects on the unborn. There is name-calling and virtue signaling from the left as usual, so how much of this virus is just that? We need more data from non-government-controlled sources (because obviously each admin can use the CDC for politics). The only way for people to get information is the internet. And this morning, we find out that our government is going to start recommending booster shots after 8 months because … get this … the vaccine is not effective at keeping your antibodies up!
John Cochran was spot on, in his answer to what we need to do to get people to vaccinate, more data. But it cant come from the government. I have a CDC poster that says “Be sure your mask cover[s] your nose and mouth to keep you from getting and spreading COVID-19” as if a mask will keep you from getting or spreading the virus!
Guilting and shunning people that chose not to vax is going to prove hesitant people right; it’s all a political ploy to get them to conform. The more our trusted sources like the Good Fellows say that the unvaxxed need to be shunned by not being allowed to have a life, or guilted by saying you are killing granny, the more people we are losing to this fight.
We need data, real data — do masks do anything against the virus? What are the numbers of children dying (we can see CDC data on this and the numbers are crazy low; they are at more risk from the flu), so why are we implementing children wearing masks when even during a very bad flu season masks were never an option.
Stop treating us like children, stop all the political games, just the facts and use the facts to mock the false information. Bring the false information to the front, including stupid CDC lies, and mock it.
Published in General
The problem is there is no credible source of facts with which to mock. There are 0 authorities to whom you can appeal. All presumptions of regularity, or charity are no longer rational assumptions.
The weird sovietization/nazification of everything makes everything suspect.
When one deals seriously with the underlying problem, that a hundred years of good will was destroyed in less than a decade, and that it will take another hundred years to get it back, then the path forward becomes clear.
Sheila, what was the nature of your breakthrough case? Was it proven to be WuFlu? How sick were you?
They can’t. It is all false information. I doubt that the truth ever gets to us. They have been lying over so much for so long that they do not know how to tell the truth. Everything they say is about spin, advancing a narrative and political posturing. They do not care who they hurt or who they kill, just what is best for their political future.
Here’s the problem, although vaccines work, those advocating their use have the scientific credibility of Trofim Lysenko. That they are insisting and demanding vaccine mandates doubles the mistrust of the vaccine hesitant. Additionally, many vaccine advocates deny that actually having had Covid provides protection from future exposure. It offers, in fact, superior protection. (I have not heard of breakthrough infections among those who have had Covid. It could be they did contract a second case but it was so mild they mistook it for allergies. Certainly I haven’t been bothered by Delta and don’t expect to be bothered by Lambda.)
Through in utterly worthless mask mandates. Masks as being required provide zero protection against Covid. They only work if you:
a. Wear an N95 mask.
b. Ensure it is properly fitted.
c. Wash your hands before placing the mask on you face.
d. Do not touch or adjust the mask while it is on your face.
e. Replace it every two hours.
Anyone who has taken an OSHA course on masks knows this. (Among them my son, a pipeline engineer. Everyone in his office is ignoring mask-wearing requirements because they have taken those courses know masks don’t stop the spread of Covid – and that wearing masks harms your health.
This is the fable of the boy who cried wolf. The CDC has put out so much misinformation (and flat out lies), that those already skeptical ignore the warning there is a wolf even when the wolf appears.
The first step in getting the vaccine-hesitant would be for the CDC to admit their past errors as a step to restore trust. That ain’t happening. Those running the CDC are bureaucrats first and medical professionals a long second. The first rule of bureaucracy is never admit a mistake.
Mrs Nohaaj teaches at the local community college. Yesterday she attended an 8 hour training on the rules which are newly implemented for on-campus learning. (fortunately, she has excelled in on-line curriculums, so all her classes are exclusively zoom courses). Some of the rules: Masks are required 100%. students are not allowed to lower a mask in a classroom setting for anything (including taking a drink of water or coffee, etc) If a student or teacher needs to take a sip during class sessions, they must step outside the classroom to do so. Violators must be reported to safety enforcement officers. People who do not enforce rules, must also be reported to safety officers. Only approved masks can be worn. Enforcement and reporting of non approved masks follows the same guidelines. Punishments include expulsion and loss of employment.
My wife was born in Germany, and became a US citizen about 8 years ago. Her observation: This is just like the Nazis, they want us all to be Brown shirts, reporting on our fellow citizens.
This is all effed up.
I posted my story here… https://ricochet.com/1020736/i-love-you-guys/
The worst part for me was not being to taste my food, and the worst day was the day I got tested, so I was mostly over it before then. I only got tested because my son-in-law was tested positive (young buck, who thinks it would be cool to get paid to stay home. Which is exactly what happened) and he lives with us. It is startling to think that for all of us it was like a mild cold, my husband said he had allergy problems worse, yet there are people dying form this. Its just hard to understand.
This, a thousand times this. Just got an earful about how trying to cover up mistakes to avoid embarrassment is one of the surest paths to corruption.
I am not wanting to mock credible facts, I want to mock the craziness. Like this is a way for the government to sterilize us, Really?!? So that we all die off and they have no one to tax?
But yes everything is suspect, that is why people with some sway like Peter Robinson, and HR McMaster need to stay away from marginalizing, shunning, or mocking the hessitant.
I have a strong stubborn streak. And I’m very logic minded. The more someone tries to force me to do something without trying to convince me with legitimate facts (that don’t contradict decades of previously known facts), the more I dig in my heels.
If this gets forced on us, the harder I will fight it.
Yep, I agree. But we have platforms were we can get information, like this one. So those few trusted sources need to stay away from insult, hyperbole and exaggeration about the hesitant.
Staying away from insult, hyperbole and exaggeration? What fun is that?
I must have missed that. Seems un-Peter Robinson-ish, but I take you at your word. Hopefully he wasn’t as downright nasty about it as J-Pod.
What I find rather enlightening is the approach of these elitists is to mock, ridicule, shame, name-call . . . the exact opposite approach of you really wish to persuade someone.
We don’t need data. We need trust.
Even in the best circumstances, that would take years to recover. A variety of people distrust a variety of sources for a variety of reasons. Our society is fractured.
Well, it’s not usually a good marketing approach to insult one’s potential customers.
But, on the other hand, some propagandists find it to be effective. Here’s Stalin’s master propagandist, Willi Munzenberg, told Arthur Koestler, back when Koestler was still a Communist:
Don’t argue with them, Make them stink in the nose of the world. Make people curse and abominate them, Make them shudder with horror. That, Arturo, is propaganda!
Much of the communication of today’s “progressives” and “liberals”, and of the Democrat party in general, is informed more by Munzenberg’s approach than by normal marketing thinking.
@sheilap Your perspective is how a sensible person would approach this. I have not been vaccine hesitant until now. I took flu shots off and on over the years. I had no concerns when I had the flu shot and I had none when I missed. My concern with the Covid vaccine is the unknown. I think I have a long standing viral immunity that I want to keep. If this vaccine has a killing effect on that built up immune response and now they push boosters, where are we going with this?
Sure there are credible sources. But you’ve got turn off the television and the YouTube preachers, or the credible voices will get drowned out.
I get the sense the anti-vax sentiment comes from the “live free or die” philosophy of not wanting to be commanded by a central government on personal decisions.
Therefore, my bet would be mocking will have the exact opposite effect of your desired result, in that it will only encourage the anti-vax crowd to tell the vaxers to go pound sand.
My suggestion is to remind everyone that Operation Warp Speed is a Trump Admin initiative to thwart the worldwide Covid pandemic, and to stop the Blue State/City Commissars from shutting down commerce and destroying livelihoods by getting vaccinated and achieving herd immunity as soon as possible …. may not work, but the mocking will certainly not work IMO.
Recent studies show that vaccine hesitancy is correlated with high intelligence. Which is to say, it’s not those “dumb hicks” refusing to get the vax. It’s smart, well-informed people making a reasoned choice.
I don’t see an advocacy to mock credible sources. President Trump’s push of Operation Warp Speed came when we knew almost nothing about what might be in store with the Covid virus. We know Trump had only a modicum of control over government actions at any rate. Now we know a lot and the false narratives are in abundance. The bureaucrats and politicians are covering their mistakes and solidifying their power. If the Pharmaceuticals can market a vaccine that disables natural immunity they will be in Pharma heaven with booster shots.
“No one is very sick, pretty much a mild cold”.
Sounds like the vaccine worked perfectly for you. I don’t understand your issue.
If I ran the CDC here is how I would communicate on Covid:
* Everyone is going to get Covid sooner or later
* To reduce your likelihood of dying do all of the following:
– Lose 50 pounds or get the vaccine
– Take a multivitamin and a 15 walk in the sunshine every day
– Stay near open windows
* If you feel sick, stay home and call a doctor
I think her issue is spreading false information or mandates are not effective ways to convince people to get the vaccines.
Yes. I often see people who I know to be strong Trump supporters but who seem to believe that the vaccines were a conspiracy of Gates and Soros, or some such.
Also important to note, though, that vaccine supporters are by no means uniformly Trump people or conservatives. Over the last couple of decades, vaccine paranoia has been largely driven by airhead celebrities..almost always on the Left…and natural-healing type hippies…also largely on the Left.
Much of the Red-state vs Blue-state vaccine acceptance data is a statistical artifact driven by demographic mix. Vaccine acceptance is considerably lower among blacks and hispanics, partly for historical reasons in the first case, and was certainly not helped by the Biden/Harris rants during the campaign season.
I did not mean to imply that Mr. Robinson said anything wrong, I am saying that those we trust to bring us actual information. like Peter, need to stay away from these tactics. As far as I know he has.
For some people, it’s more important that vaccines be required than that people get vaccinated. They are willing to sacrifice the latter for the former. I will feel free to mock those people, as well as some of the sillier ideas about vaccines.
1st, I never said the vaccine didn’t work for me, I said that my non vaxxed household members had the exact same symptoms as all 3 vaxxed. With a 90 something percent supposed effective rate, why did all 3 vaxxed people have the exact same symptoms as the 3 non vaxxed? The numbers don’t add up, at least in my home. I don’t regret getting the vaccine, but I am happy to have had the virus and have natural antibodies.
2nd, my issue is, and has always been, with government forcing people to get the vaccine and wear masks. I thought I was pretty clear on this.
The situation has been a clusterfark from the get-go.
When they tell you the efficacy of the shots dropped from 95% to 41%, the higher number may have been a myth to begin with. But nobody wants to say, “We don’t know.”
In the rush to get this to market the trials excluded vast swaths of people: pregnant women, people with allergies, people with HIV and other immunocompromised individuals – all of the people they now wave a hand at and say, “Ehhhh, you should be fiiiiine.” But nobody wants to say, “We don’t know.”
They also excluded people with previous Covid infections. They have no idea if this new style of vaccine resets or enhances natural immunity. But nobody wants to say, “We don’t know.”
The vaccines may accelerate the mutation process. But nobody wants to say, “We don’t know.”
And nobody, outside of a few lonely voices like Jay Bhattacharya, wants to say the bloody obvious: It’s here to stay. As long as mammals other than humans can host the virus, it’s not going to eradicated. You will get it. Your cat might get it. The deer munching on your cabbage in the garden will most likely have it.
The virus that caused the 1918 pandemic, N1H1, is still with us. And as a species we learned to adapt to its presence.
Nice to see someone knows Munzenberg, who is pretty much ground zero for the spread in the west of the totalitarian virus.
The 41 percent (or some such number) is for the Delta variant, isn’t it? Why would people say, “we don’t know” when we do know?
This is the point where I scream and shake my fist at the computer screen. Her post clearly stated that both poked and non-poked people in her household had identical low impact symptoms. As I understand, most people without poke, have low impact symptoms. How can you, good doctor, claim the vax worked perfectly or reduced the severity of the symptoms? There is no possible control experiment to validate that claim.