What Will You Do When Your Favorite Carmaker Goes All-Electric?

 

The EU has instituted onerous fuel-economy and carbon-emissions rules, causing many European automakers to declare that soon they will be building only electric cars.  The EU determined that cars propelled by batteries emit no carbon that could be destroying Planet Earth; so they are prompting carmakers to quit making gasoline and diesel-powered cars.  These changes are imminent, with Volvo (now owned by a Communist Chinese company) having announced last year that by 2030 they will only be producing electric cars.  Just last week, Daimler, which makes Mercedes Benz cars, also announced that it will go all-electric by the end of the decade.  Jaguar has announced that it will be all-electric by 2025.

So, what if you have aspired to own a Jaguar or Mercedes. Will you buy that electric car and risk being on foot if the power goes out? What if you will never be able to trade in that gas-powered Volvo for the newest model? Are you looking forward to the government essentially owning your car? Most electricity is provided by government-sanctioned utilities, so you will have few options for fueling up if all you are allowed to own and drive will be some kind of electric car. General Motors and Ford have also announced that they will be moving to building mostly electric cars. California and Washington have already passed laws against gasoline-powered cars.

Note, however, one of the big holdouts. Toyota has announced that they will not be building an all-electric fleet.

Nearly every week, I read a new article describing how this or that automaker has declared that they will be only building electric cars in the future. Not one of those articles has yet addressed what I think of as the most important question. What if the people don’t want electric cars? What if all those buyers and drivers out there are not one bit interested in driving a car which they have to constantly worry about running out of charge?

What will you do?

Published in Economics
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  1. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    If we don’t like the electric cars on offer, or if we don’t think they’ll meet our wants, some of us may learn to embrace different types of vehicles. Ford, General Motors, and (whatever today’s name for the former Chrysler Corporation is) aren’t going to soon stop making large gasoline and diesel powered pickup trucks and SUVs for their many rural customers. Toyota is already angling to take more of that market here in the U.S.A. A friend who now has a large (luxury loaded) pickup was originally looking for a large sedan, but there are few on the market suitable for the road trips he and his wife take with another couple. So, he found a pickup with a soft ride, and figures functionally it’s a big sedan with an exceptionally large trunk (he has a rigid tonneau cover on the truck bed).

    • #31
  2. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I just did some googling about electric garbage trucks. It sounds like they work but they cost double. They are a lot quieter.

    Electric Semi-Trucks are for the in-town type stuff not Over the Road. Like the cars they have a Range of 250 miles. 

    https://freightliner.com/trucks/ecascadia/

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    I think we most need to get the mandate and bandwagon enthusiasts to think more about the electric grid that would be required for widespread adoption of electric vehicles

    Yeah, if it gets too hot for too long the electric companies start putting out warnings to limit use of appliances and cut eclectic use to preserve the grid.  If half the cars on the road were all electric virtually every state would have frequent rolling brown outs, and in the summer black outs would be common.

    • #32
  3. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):
    I think we most need to get the mandate and bandwagon enthusiasts to think more about the electric grid that would be required for widespread adoption of electric vehicles. Here in Texas catastrophic failure of the grid is a recent memory, and should be kept near the front of everyone’s attention. California has had many problems keeping its electric grid functional. And people want to push a massive increase in demand for electricity onto systems that can’t keep up today?

    During the freeze gas and diesel powered fire, rescue, and police vehicles literally saved lives here in the boonies.  There is a place for hybrid vehicles in emergency services (big fire apparatus with electric direct drive motors at the wheels would be awesome) but there is no place for full electric.  When fuel gets low we can bring out a fuel truck to the incident and run as long as we need.  The electric fanboys would have us towing huge generators powered by (what else) fossil fuels.  

    • #33
  4. Mark Alexander Inactive
    Mark Alexander
    @MarkAlexander

    California had made it feasible to install solar, and now they are jacking up the electricity prices to pay off their infrastructure mistakes (one of the root causes of our wildfires.)

    When everything goes electric, we will find, not only that there is not enough power for all those cars (remember, govt no longer does REAL infrastructure, at any level), but we will be ordered to charge our cars only on certain days of the week, eventually to one day per week.

    Oh, and then there will be mileage taxes, so even if we want to drive, we pay a surcharge for every mile.

    Meanwhile, all our betters will continue to do as they please.

    Whence the revolution?

    • #34
  5. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    It’s astounding to me that Our Leaders are pushing electric vehicles while at the same time doing nothing about increasing the abilities of our nation’s electrical grids. If they were serious, they’d be building more nuclear plants.

    But they’re not serious.

    • #35
  6. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):
    Oh, and then there will be mileage taxes, so even if we want to drive, we pay a surcharge for every mile.

    That’s already on the docket.

    Another way to restrict travel.

    Understand what the MBUF tax is really meant to do. It is aimed at taking away America’s automobiles. It isn’t about raising money. It isn’t really aimed at the climate change hypothesis. The MBUF is about making it too expensive for us to drive a car. Liberals hate our freedom of movement, and they want to take it away. They want you limited only to big cities where they can better control you.

    Your car is a target for destruction. Like your job. Your religion. Your political ideals. Your… well, anything they feel you should not be allowed to have.

    • #36
  7. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):

    California had made it feasible to install solar, and now they are jacking up the electricity prices to pay off their infrastructure mistakes (one of the root causes of our wildfires.)

    When everything goes electric, we will find, not only that there is not enough power for all those cars (remember, govt no longer does REAL infrastructure, at any level), but we will be ordered to charge our cars only on certain days of the week, eventually to one day per week.

    Oh, and then there will be mileage taxes, so even if we want to drive, we pay a surcharge for every mile.

    Meanwhile, all our betters will continue to do as they please.

    Whence the revolution?

    This is literally the best podcast I have ever heard. VDH analyzing the dysfunction of California. It’s only 30 minutes so don’t miss it. Very educational.  

     

    https://www.hoover.org/research/classicist-embers-california

     

     

     

    • #37
  8. KentForrester Coolidge
    KentForrester
    @KentForrester

    Marie and I just got back from a 40 minute walk and then grocery shopping at Albertson’s. Before the walk, I plugged my Nissan Leaf into the free electric charge in front of Albertson’s.  The station is called Volta and there are a couple more in the area. 

    In the 55 minutes we were gone, my battery went from 86% to 100% charged. 

    I think Albertson’s pays part of the bill.  Advertisers pay the rest.  The current advertiser is Ben and Jerry’s, the entrepreneurial jerks who won’t sell their overpriced ice cream to the “occupied” territories of Israel. 

    At least I’m profiting from their sponsorship of the free charging station. 

    • #38
  9. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    It’s astounding to me that Our Leaders are pushing electric vehicles while at the same time doing nothing about increasing the abilities of our nation’s electrical grids. If they were serious, they’d be building more nuclear plants.

    But they’re not serious.

    About anything.

    • #39
  10. Raxxalan Member
    Raxxalan
    @Raxxalan

    I was looking into replacing my vehicles and considered moving to an electric car; however, I determined that while it would work fine for my daily life.  It wouldn’t work very well for traveling to see my family about 650 mi one way.  Plus recharging in Austin is relatively easy but Picayune MS is a different matter.   I could see a circumstance where the math could work differently.  The problem is the government no longer believes we should be able to make the right decisions for our individual circumstances.

    • #40
  11. Full Size Tabby Member
    Full Size Tabby
    @FullSizeTabby

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I just did some googling about electric garbage trucks. It sounds like they work but they cost double. They are a lot quieter.

    Suburban residential garbage collection would seem to be a use in which an electric truck might be economical, even if the initial cost is high. The stop-and-go nature of the work is hard on brakes, the engine, and the transmission. I have read that operators must replace brake pads every 4,000 miles or so. Regenerative braking (turning the electric motor into a generator to recharge the battery while slowing the vehicle) could significantly extend brake pad life and otherwise reduce repair intervals. When I sold my electric car with 35,000 miles on it, there was almost no measurable wear on the brake pads. Extended brake life might not be enough by itself to justify the up front costs, but is part of the total cost of ownership equation. 

    • #41
  12. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I just did some googling about electric garbage trucks. It sounds like they work but they cost double. They are a lot quieter.

    Suburban residential garbage collection would seem to be a use in which an electric truck might be economical, even if the initial cost is high. The stop-and-go nature of the work is hard on brakes, the engine, and the transmission. I have read that operators must replace brake pads every 4,000 miles or so. Regenerative braking (turning the electric motor into a generator to recharge the battery while slowing the vehicle) could significantly extend brake pad life and otherwise reduce repair intervals. When I sold my electric car with 35,000 miles on it, there was almost no measurable wear on the brake pads. Extended brake life might not be enough by itself to justify the up front costs, but is part of the total cost of ownership equation.

    I was wondering about that.  If they cost double but they depreciate slower, it might net out. 

    St. Paul Minnesota created total chaos by trying to force city level garbage pick up instead of independent. They wanted fewer trucks to save the streets and to cut down on noise. It’s a wild story.  There were tons of lefties that were against it because they were really good at producing zero garbage. They finally got it through after a bunch of mistakes.

    This was about two years ago. I think electric garbage trucks weren’t that ideal at that point, but it would have been nice if they just gave that a shot somehow. I suppose they are still bad for the roads.

    • #42
  13. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    RufusRJones (View Comment):
    This was about two years ago. I think electric garbage trucks weren’t that ideal at that point, but it would have been nice if they just gave that a shot somehow. I suppose they are still bad for the roads.

    I know that electric urban uses have generally been failures because they can’t hold a charge long enough to complete a typical shift.  I would think the demands on a garbage truck (frequent starts and stops) would be even worse.

    • #43
  14. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Hybrids are the actual way to go. They make the most sense and have several advantages. 

     

    • #44
  15. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf (View Comment):

    Mark Alexander (View Comment):
    Oh, and then there will be mileage taxes, so even if we want to drive, we pay a surcharge for every mile.

    That’s already on the docket.

    Another way to restrict travel.

    Understand what the MBUF tax is really meant to do. It is aimed at taking away America’s automobiles. It isn’t about raising money. It isn’t really aimed at the climate change hypothesis. The MBUF is about making it too expensive for us to drive a car. Liberals hate our freedom of movement, and they want to take it away. They want you limited only to big cities where they can better control you.

    Your car is a target for destruction. Like your job. Your religion. Your political ideals. Your… well, anything they feel you should not be allowed to have.

    The government is comprehensively running out of money. The debt to GDP is out of control. They are suppressing interest rates. They are going to try anything going forward. @LukeGromen says they have to force negative 10% real rates to keep society together.

     

     

     

    • #45
  16. RushBabe49 Thatcher
    RushBabe49
    @RushBabe49

    And electric cars have a much shorter useful life due to batteries wearing out and needing replacement. How will people like paying a third of the cost of the car every few years to replace the worn-out battery?  And how much of a huge lithium-ion battery can be recycled?  They are full of toxic metals. 

    • #46
  17. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    RushBabe49 (View Comment):

    And electric cars have a much shorter useful life due to batteries wearing out and needing replacement. How will people like paying a third of the cost of the car every few years to replace the worn-out battery? And how much of a huge lithium-ion battery can be recycled? They are full of toxic metals.

    Hybrids and pure electric cars pose a lot challenges to emergency responders.  So far, however,  battery life has generally exceeded expectations.  In addition, the main battery compartment shielding is proving to be robust.  When a fire actually gets into the main battery compartment all we can do protect the exposures and wait for it to burn up.  And yes, lots of toxic materials involved.  Conventional vehicle fires don’t usually last too long and we can control them with water and foam but those big lithium batteries can burn for hours.  

    • #47
  18. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    KentForrester (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):

    I read an article sometime in the last couple of months suggesting that all this jumping on the green bandwagon by the car companies is posturing, and that, as it becomes clear over the next decade that a transition to all-electric cars is simply impossible (grid issues, battery issues, weight issues, extremes-of-temperature issues, distance issues, budgetary issues, terrain issues–such as those of electric vehicles, especially large buses, that can’t manage even small uphill grades, and all sorts of other issues), they will start to walk it all back and move towards, at the most, all-hybrid vehicles with electric capability for the short and easy distances and gasoline for the longer, more difficult. That makes some sense to me.

    Good morning, She. I think you’re right. I don’t see how we could transition to electric cars in the speed that the car companies and our government seem to believe we can. We would need hundreds more nuclear power plants —solar arrays and wind turbines just can’t cut it —to supply all the electricity the cars would need. And the greenies, as I understand it, don’t like those nuclear plants.

    They don’t like ANY power generation or distribution, really.  And while some greenies think solar panels and windmills are just fine, there are other greenies that hate those too.  Then of course, no matter how it’s generated, it has to be moved over large power lines etc, and ALL of the greenies hate those.

    • #48
  19. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I just did some googling about electric garbage trucks. It sounds like they work but they cost double. They are a lot quieter.

    Suburban residential garbage collection would seem to be a use in which an electric truck might be economical, even if the initial cost is high. The stop-and-go nature of the work is hard on brakes, the engine, and the transmission. I have read that operators must replace brake pads every 4,000 miles or so. Regenerative braking (turning the electric motor into a generator to recharge the battery while slowing the vehicle) could significantly extend brake pad life and otherwise reduce repair intervals. When I sold my electric car with 35,000 miles on it, there was almost no measurable wear on the brake pads. Extended brake life might not be enough by itself to justify the up front costs, but is part of the total cost of ownership equation.

    I was wondering about that. If they cost double but they depreciate slower, it might net out.

    St. Paul Minnesota created total chaos by trying to force city level garbage pick up instead of independent. They wanted fewer trucks to save the streets and to cut down on noise. It’s a wild story. There were tons of lefties that were against it because they were really good at producing zero garbage. They finally got it through after a bunch of mistakes.

    This was about two years ago. I think electric garbage trucks weren’t that ideal at that point, but it would have been nice if they just gave that a shot somehow. I suppose they are still bad for the roads.

    I’m thinking that electric garbage trucks would be heavier because of the batteries, and that means more road wear/damage over time.  

    • #49
  20. David Foster Member
    David Foster
    @DavidFoster

    “Most electricity is provided by government-sanctioned utilities, so you will have few options for fueling up if all you are allowed to own and drive will be some kind of electric car. “

    Are electric utilities really any more government-sanctioned than are gasoline delivery pipelines?

    • #50
  21. David Foster Member
    David Foster
    @DavidFoster

    With the multination push for wind, solar, and batteries, we are going to see serious materials constraints. See my post ‘Green’ Energy:  Materials-Intensive.

    The post includes a link to a very interesting & detailed IEA study on the relevant materials and their sources.

    .

     

    • #51
  22. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    David Foster (View Comment):

    With the multination push for wind, solar, and batteries, we are going to see serious materials constraints. See my post ‘Green’ Energy: Materials-Intensive.

    The post includes a link to a very interesting & detailed IEA study on the relevant materials and their sources.

    .

     

    Hedgefund guys are totally front running this. 

    • #52
  23. WillowSpring Member
    WillowSpring
    @WillowSpring

    Tex929rr (View Comment):
    When fuel gets low we can bring out a fuel truck to the incident and run as long as we need.

    I never would have thought of bring a fuel truck to a fire or other incident. 
    The things I learn on Ricochet!

     

    • #53
  24. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    She (View Comment):
    I read an article sometime in the last couple of months suggesting that all this jumping on the green bandwagon by the car companies is posturing, and

    They can posture because they are being paid by the government to do so with our tax dollars. 

    • #54
  25. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I just did some googling about electric garbage trucks. It sounds like they work but they cost double. They are a lot quieter.

    If they’re quieter how will you ever know if they come?

    • #55
  26. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I just did some googling about electric garbage trucks. It sounds like they work but they cost double. They are a lot quieter.

    If they’re quieter how will you ever know if they come?

    And that’s just for garbage trucks.  I expect pedestrian deaths to skyrocket if everyone has to drive a silent electric car.

    • #56
  27. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I just did some googling about electric garbage trucks. It sounds like they work but they cost double. They are a lot quieter.

    If they’re quieter how will you ever know if they come?

    And that’s just for garbage trucks. I expect pedestrian deaths to skyrocket if everyone has to drive a silent electric car.

    You can’t tell if they’re running or even in drive.  Or in reverse and about to back out of a parking spot.  You could use an automatic backing-up horn, I suppose.  But a car waiting by the curb outside of a store ready to drive off makes no noise at all, even when engaged and starting to move forward.  And when you’re about to use the crosswalk and a car is coming you don’t hear it.

    The solution would be the horn continuously honking when driving.  That’s the safest way. :)

    • #57
  28. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Flicker (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    I just did some googling about electric garbage trucks. It sounds like they work but they cost double. They are a lot quieter.

    If they’re quieter how will you ever know if they come?

    And that’s just for garbage trucks. I expect pedestrian deaths to skyrocket if everyone has to drive a silent electric car.

    You can’t tell if they’re running or even in drive. Or in reverse and about to back out of a parking spot. You could use an automatic backing-up horn, I suppose. But a car waiting by the curb outside of a store ready to drive off makes no noise at all, even when engaged and starting to move forward. And when you’re about to use the crosswalk and a car is coming you don’t hear it.

    The solution would be the horn continuously honking when driving. That’s the safest way. :)

    On the plus side, it might help with the homeless problem in many areas.  Anyone remember Death Race 2000?

    • #58
  29. Tex929rr Coolidge
    Tex929rr
    @Tex929rr

    WillowSpring (View Comment

    I never would have thought of bring a fuel truck to a fire or other incident.
    The things I learn on Ricochet!

    At big extended wildland fires the staging area turns into a small town.

     

    • #59
  30. Hugh Member
    Hugh
    @Hugh

    Can you say Cuba? It would be a good time to be a mechanic.

    • #60
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