Alternative History?

 

A few years ago, I read Stephen Ambrose’s book Undaunted Courage about the Lewis and Clark expedition. I was enthralled, and couldn’t put it down. In fact, the book gave me an idea for a children’s book that I am considering writing.

This afternoon, Ray and I were in our local Barnes and Noble in the History section, and I saw that book on the shelf. It had a very unusual sign on the shelf underneath it, and it just made me stop and look. What do you think of this?

I always thought the book was about Lewis and Clark, and Jefferson. I’m betting the store employee who made that shelf tag was under 30 years old. Sigh…

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  1. Randy Webster Member
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Probably hasn’t even read it.

    • #1
  2. Sean Keegan Coolidge
    Sean Keegan
    @Anthracite

    Sad.

    • #2
  3. Vince Guerra Member
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Well, you live in Seattle, so……

    • #3
  4. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    The sign looks like it’s just setting a time frame for the subject matter of the books on the shelf, and sorting them by author.  Personally, I would have been more economical with my words and just said “Antebellum”.

    • #4
  5. She Reagan
    She
    @She

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Personally, I would have been more economical with my words and just said “Antebellum”.

    That’s an offensive term (even though I’m pretty sure almost no-one outside of Ricochet knows what it actually means) which is best avoided and has “a racial charge that ties back to slavery ownership,” and “generally refers to white ownership of black slaves prior to the Emancipation Proclamation.”  What an absurd article.  And what a nitwit, the girl who says, “I wore a party dress.  It was ignorant and wrong.  And my ignorance was racist.”  What a blithering fool.

    If I were trying to “date” the volumes in the history section of a bookstore, I’d probably just use year markers, pretty secure in the knowledge that almost no-one wandering aimlessly about in the shop would have a clue what was actually going on in, say, the period 1800-1810, during which the L&C expedition took place.

    RushBabe49: In fact the book gave me an idea for a children’s book that I am considering writing.

    Go for it!

    • #5
  6. Randy Webster Member
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    She (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Personally, I would have been more economical with my words and just said “Antebellum”.

    That’s an offensive term (even though I’m pretty sure almost no-one outside of Ricochet knows what it actually means) which is best avoided and has “a racial charge that ties back to slavery ownership,” and “generally refers to white ownership of black slaves prior to the Emancipation Proclamation.” What an absurd article. And what a nitwit, the girl who says, “I wore a party dress. It was ignorant and wrong. And my ignorance was racist.” What a blithering fool.

    If I were trying to “date” the volumes in the history section of a bookstore, I’d probably just use year markers, pretty secure in the knowledge that almost no-one wandering aimlessly about in the shop would have a clue what was actually going on in, say, the period 1800-1810, during which the L&C expedition took place.

    RushBabe49: In fact the book gave me an idea for a children’s book that I am considering writing.

    Go for it!

    I refuse to use CE for dates.  They didn’t change year zero, so who are they trying to fool?

    • #6
  7. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Sure, it’s “Pre-Civil War,” but what does “slavery” have to do with it?  I guess slavery is discussed somewhere within?  That would require a lot of labels.  Are there other little signs similar to this or are Lewis and Clark just special?.

    • #7
  8. Randy Webster Member
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Personally, I would have been more economical with my words and just said “Antebellum”.

    That’s an offensive term (even though I’m pretty sure almost no-one outside of Ricochet knows what it actually means)

    I asked a couple of people in the office, and neither knew what it means.  If you have even a cursory knowledge of Latin, it’s pretty easy to figure out.

    • #8
  9. D.A. Venters Member
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    The “by author” part suggests the sign is not meant for that book necessarily, but to designate the subject matter of the whole shelf, or whole section, arranged alphabetically by author.  It just so happens that Undaunted Courage was placed above the sign.   

    • #9
  10. She Reagan
    She
    @She

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Randy Webster (View Comment):

    Personally, I would have been more economical with my words and just said “Antebellum”.

    That’s an offensive term (even though I’m pretty sure almost no-one outside of Ricochet knows what it actually means)

    I asked a couple of people in the office, and neither knew what it means. If you have even a cursory knowledge of Latin, it’s pretty easy to figure out.

    Right.  But I’m also pretty sure that lots of people who haven’t a clue what it means know for sure that it’s racist.

    • #10
  11. Brian Wyneken Member
    Brian Wyneken
    @BrianWyneken

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Sure, it’s “Pre-Civil War,” but what does “slavery” have to do with it? I guess slavery is discussed somewhere within? That would require a lot of labels. Are there other little signs similar to this or are Lewis and Clark just special?.

    Clark brought one slave along on the expedition who features prominently in some of the adventures. I’m assuming the sign in the store is a “trigger warning.”

    • #11
  12. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    The “by author” part suggests the sign is not meant for that book necessarily, but to designate the subject matter of the whole shelf, or whole section, arranged alphabetically by author. It just so happens that Undaunted Courage was placed above the sign.

    Makes sense, but then I’d question how wide they’re reaching to include the “slavery” designation for exploratory events just after the Louisiana Purchase.   Yes, I get that slavery must be mentioned, and, technically, 1803 is “pre-Civil War.”

    • #12
  13. D.A. Venters Member
    D.A. Venters
    @DAVenters

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    The “by author” part suggests the sign is not meant for that book necessarily, but to designate the subject matter of the whole shelf, or whole section, arranged alphabetically by author. It just so happens that Undaunted Courage was placed above the sign.

    Makes sense, but then I’d question how wide they’re reaching to include the “slavery” designation for exploratory events just after the Louisiana Purchase. Yes, I get that slavery must be mentioned, and, technically, 1803 is “pre-Civil War.

    Well, it’s just how they want to organize their shelves, I guess.  Wouldn’t be how I would do it, just thinking about it in a vaccum, but I don’t know what their broader inventory is like, nor the browsing habits of their customers.   I would imagine book store shelves get pretty mixed up from time to time, too, as customers and/or employees misplace them back onto the shelves.

    • #13
  14. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    I guess there’s a similar sign for the Bible shelf . . .

    • #14
  15. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    The “by author” part suggests the sign is not meant for that book necessarily, but to designate the subject matter of the whole shelf, or whole section, arranged alphabetically by author. It just so happens that Undaunted Courage was placed above the sign.

    I think you’re right. The book next to it is on the Revolutionary War, and “Ambrose” would start a new section organized by author between the two wars. I’ll bet it’s for new employees. :-)

    • #15
  16. She Reagan
    She
    @She

    MarciN (View Comment):

    D.A. Venters (View Comment):

    The “by author” part suggests the sign is not meant for that book necessarily, but to designate the subject matter of the whole shelf, or whole section, arranged alphabetically by author. It just so happens that Undaunted Courage was placed above the sign.

    I think you’re right. The book next to it is on the Revolutionary War, and “Ambrose” would start a new section organized by author between the two wars. I’ll bet it’s for new employees. :-)

    Yeah.  It’s right next to Revolutionary War for Dummies.  A tome I didn’t even knew existed, but which says much.

    • #16
  17. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Bookstore organization is a wonder in itself. It’s not like a library–you want to introduce your new inventory and continue to sell your old inventory. Do you arrange them by subject or author or both? I think they do some of both, which creates a fair amount of chaos for those who know what they want when they go in. :-)

    Grocery stores have some of the same problems and objectives. One of our big chain grocery stores in New England is Stop’n Shop. For years every once in a while I have asked the service desk where a particular product was in the store because I couldn’t find it. The clerks do not have this information on their computer. They tell me from memory. I keep waiting for the day when they will be able to find this information quickly and easily on their computer terminal. But there still is no computer terminal like Barnes & Noble’s for me or the clerks to look it up on my own. I’m convinced Stop’n Shop has made this choice to encourage browsing the aisles and discourage the quick trip to get one thing. :-)  It bugs me because I don’t like that kind of manipulation. But I understand what they are doing. :-)

    • #17
  18. Vince Guerra Member
    Vince Guerra
    @VinceGuerra

    Brian Wyneken (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Sure, it’s “Pre-Civil War,” but what does “slavery” have to do with it? I guess slavery is discussed somewhere within? That would require a lot of labels. Are there other little signs similar to this or are Lewis and Clark just special?.

    Clark brought one slave along on the expedition who features prominently in some of the adventures. I’m assuming the sign in the store is a “trigger warning.”

    If they’re worried about triggering progressives they should have put it in the native American section, or dog lovers section with warnings. The Corps of Discovery treated York as an equal, they even let him vote. They shot some Indians and ate the dogs.

    • #18
  19. GlennAmurgis Coolidge
    GlennAmurgis
    @GlennAmurgis

    Did they label books about the USSR/Cuba/China … as totalitarian misery  

    • #19
  20. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Did you talk to the store manager?

    • #20
  21. CACrabtree Coolidge
    CACrabtree
    @CACrabtree

    Well, in Charlottesville they removed the statue of Lewis and Clark (and Sacajawea) so I suppose the next logical step for the Left is to remove all history books that pertain to them.  

    Cretinism is a terrible thing…

    • #21
  22. Ray Kujawa Coolidge
    Ray Kujawa
    @RayKujawa

    I think the label was for books on the next shelf under. Just happened to coincide with the book. I don’t think there is anything to remark about here.

    • #22
  23. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    Brian Wyneken (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Sure, it’s “Pre-Civil War,” but what does “slavery” have to do with it? I guess slavery is discussed somewhere within? That would require a lot of labels. Are there other little signs similar to this or are Lewis and Clark just special?.

    Clark brought one slave along on the expedition who features prominently in some of the adventures. I’m assuming the sign in the store is a “trigger warning.”

    Forgot this but it’s been many years since I read it.  Enthralled by the book  since my relatives (ok, in laws) were in it. Sacagawae.  Married to a worthless French fur trapper (according to Ambrose) whose brother was my ancestor.  Have no idea how you connect this to slavery in the in South. Or any other place.  

    • #23
  24. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Brian Wyneken (View Comment):

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Sure, it’s “Pre-Civil War,” but what does “slavery” have to do with it? I guess slavery is discussed somewhere within? That would require a lot of labels. Are there other little signs similar to this or are Lewis and Clark just special?.

    Clark brought one slave along on the expedition who features prominently in some of the adventures. I’m assuming the sign in the store is a “trigger warning.”

    Forgot this but it’s been many years since I read it. Enthralled by the book since my relatives (ok, in laws) were in it. Sacagawae. Married to a worthless French fur trapper (according to Ambrose) whose brother was my ancestor. Have no idea how you connect this to slavery in the in South. Or any other place.

    William Clark brought his slave York along on the expedition. When the expedition voted on which side of the river they would winter for 1805-06, they let everyone in the expedition vote, including York and Sacajawea.

    • #24
  25. KevinKrisher Coolidge
    KevinKrisher
    @KevinKrisher

    She (View Comment):

    That’s an offensive term … which is best avoided and has “a racial charge that ties back to slavery ownership,” and “generally refers to white ownership of black slaves prior to the Emancipation Proclamation.”

    The idea that people can be offended by simply discussing history is astonishing. The past is what it is – or, more properly, what it was.

    It cannot be changed. It is not affected by anyone’s emotions.

    History is full of horrible, horrible things, and also some wonderful things, and many things that are interesting for other reasons. We can certainly acknowledge them all, and try to learn from them. But if people are going to subject themselves to emotional outrage at anything in the past that they did not personally experience, they may as well have an aneurism right now and spare the rest of us from the drama.

    • #25