I Watched the January 6 Hearing

 

The videos presented were disturbing. I’ve seen violence on the streets. Violence that involved children, adults, and I’ve seen death that came for those that were on a headlong rush to oblivion, and I’ve seen death come for those that never expected it. I watched the videos from the January 6 riot, and nobody is more grateful than I am that people find them disturbing.

I watched them through the lens of a former police officer and I saw a police force that was totally unprepared for what happened on January 6. That will not be discussed in this Congressional hearing. I’m not moved by the tears from those in Congress that never spoke-up during the 150 nights of rioting in Portland, or any other city in America.

Let’s look at this quote:

PORTLAND, Ore. (KOIN) — Police made more than 200 arrests in connection with ongoing civil unrest in Portland during the month of September; however, about nine out of every 10 suspects have already had their charges dropped.

That’s just one month. Where was the Congressional outrage, and where is it now? I call it riots for thee, but not for me.

Published in Policing
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  1. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    But the terror of being in an auxiliary building near the Capitol where people trespassing …  so, so scary.   How dare members of Congress be subjected to the conditions their subjects lived with throughout 2020!  I get the vapors just thinking about it.

    • #1
  2. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    I don’t mean to be too cynical, but all the witnesses have had 6 months to get their stories vetted, written, and scripted and their testimony trained for the effective emotional inflection.  I’ve seen videos such as were released by videographers implanted within the crowd carrying professional cameras, not just cell phones, but not seen any supposed unbiased security videos.  I find it hard to believe that white-haired grandmothers were armed terrorists.  And I find it hard to believe that passing through a door held open for them by police constitutes trespassing.  But I’m not a lawyer.

    • #2
  3. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    The opening statements were too similar in terms of verbiage. 

    • #3
  4. Jim McConnell Member
    Jim McConnell
    @JimMcConnell

    Hang On (View Comment):

    The opening statements were too similar in terms of verbiage.

    Typical of a well-scripted performance.

    • #4
  5. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    Flicker (View Comment):

    I don’t mean to be too cynical, but all the witnesses have had 6 months to get their stories vetted, written, and scripted and their testimony trained for the effective emotional inflection. I’ve seen videos such as were released by videographers implanted within the crowd carrying professional cameras, not just cell phones, but not seen any supposed unbiased security videos. I find it hard to believe that white-haired grandmothers were armed terrorists. And I find it hard to believe that passing through a door held open for them by police constitutes trespassing. But I’m not a lawyer.

    I am a lawyer.

    I would say that you are incorrectly characterizing what happened, based on a small portion of a very large and complex event.  Not everyone entered through a door held open by police.  We’ll see the evidence presented, I hope, but I recall video of others rioting to push through a doorway, and others breaking in through a window.

    And, as a lawyer, it can be trespassing even if you are admitted into a building, if you later refuse to leave when told to do so.

    Now that I mention it, did you know that part about refusing to leave being a basis for trespass?

    • #5
  6. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    I don’t mean to be too cynical, but all the witnesses have had 6 months to get their stories vetted, written, and scripted and their testimony trained for the effective emotional inflection. I’ve seen videos such as were released by videographers implanted within the crowd carrying professional cameras, not just cell phones, but not seen any supposed unbiased security videos. I find it hard to believe that white-haired grandmothers were armed terrorists. And I find it hard to believe that passing through a door held open for them by police constitutes trespassing. But I’m not a lawyer.

    I am a lawyer.

    I would say that you are incorrectly characterizing what happened, based on a small portion of a very large and complex event. Not everyone entered through a door held open by police. We’ll see the evidence presented, I hope, but I recall video of others rioting to push through a doorway, and others breaking in through a window.

    And, as a lawyer, it can be trespassing even if you are admitted into a building, if you later refuse to leave when told to do so.

    Now that I mention it, did you know that part about refusing to leave being a basis for trespass?

    So you let people in, and when there’s a large number gathered, and you order them to leave.  If they can’t, because of the crowd, well, bingo!  They’re trespassing.

    “How conveeeenient!” – Church Lady

    The other one I really like is when you stay still, the cops keep coming closer, and as soon as THEY come close enough that they can claim YOU’RE a threat, they can shoot you!

    “How conveeeenient!”

     

    • #6
  7. Fake John/Jane Galt Coolidge
    Fake John/Jane Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    Since Trump was elected I watched the Left burn cities.  Attack and destroy federal buildings.  Blind cops with lasers.  Cause mayors and other politicians to move and go into hiding.  Chase GOP politicians out of restaurants.  Mob conservatives as they walk from the white house to their cars or hotel rooms.   Shoot GOP playing baseball.  Attack those protest removing statues in what seems to be a staged event and now the “insurrection” on January 6th turned into a show trials.  This is just a fraction of the things they have done over the last few years all while Democrat politicians were directly involved, cheered it on from the side lines, excused the actions of their side and even fund raised and bailed them out.  

    If all the above was considered “ok” then I am having a hard time with the 1/6 guys being prosecuted since Left has changed the standard of what is considered a political protest.  Personally I would think all this was a crime and should be prosecuted but if they are setting a new standard then it needs to apply to all the same and not just be a tool to attack the GOP.  This Lawfare stuff needs to stop.

     

    • #7
  8. Jules PA Member
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Flicker (View Comment):
    I don’t mean to be too cynical, but all the witnesses have had 6 months to get their stories vetted, written, and scripted and their testimony trained for the effective emotional inflection. 

    Completely agree. Scripted and rehearsed. Deserving of both emmy and oscar, PLUS a new category called the Pelosi Award For Unconvincing Political Theater. 

     

    • #8
  9. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    And, as a lawyer, it can be trespassing even if you are admitted into a building, if you later refuse to leave when told to do so.

    If???  That’s a standard lawyerly way of parsing a speculation to appear at first glance as a fact.

    • #9
  10. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    This so-called investigation is nothing more than a CYA hearing. It is designed to protect Democrat incompetent decision making, as well as to influence the midterm elections.

    The force of about 2,100 sworn officers, which patrols a hallowed but tiny area, boasts a $516 million budget. That is more than twice the spending on police in Atlanta, 1½ times the spending in Detroit and approaches the $545 million budget for the District of Columbia,budget documents show. Yet reports by the force’s Office of Inspector General, tasked with rooting out waste and fraud, are kept under wraps. The Capitol Police, like Congress, are not subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

    They patrol acres:

    Spending by the Capitol Police is topping $375 million this year on a mission that’s confined to protecting Capitol Hill, its workforce of about 25,000, the surrounding neighborhood and lawmakers wherever they go across the country. That’s more than Seattle spends on a police department assigned to protect 620,000 people.

    Yet congressional security operates, and expands, almost entirely in the background — with concerted oversight from only a handful of lawmakers, little detail released on spending and a constant effort by the Capitol Police to maintain as low a public profile as possible.

    Who won’t testify: The union rep who claims that supervisors were never heard by the grunts on the radio during the riot.

    There are claims that Capitol Hill police officers are not qualifying on a regular basis with their firearms. There are claims that they were issued helmets, but they were not told why shortly before January 6.

    In my opinion they do not get the same policing experience that police officers in the real world get. Unfortunately the real world came to the Capitol on January 6. When supervisors disappear then officers that have real street experience will step up and take charge, they will adapt, and they will lead.

    • #10
  11. navyjag Coolidge
    navyjag
    @navyjag

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    And, as a lawyer, it can be trespassing even if you are admitted into a building, if you later refuse to leave when told to do so.

    If??? That’s a standard lawyerly way of parsing a speculation to appear at first glance as a fact.

    Can’t be trespassing if invited to enter. Refusing to obey a law enforcement order to leave a different offense. Agree with Jerry the idiots who beat up the cop getting into the building by force should be prosecuted and doubt anyone on this site disagrees. 

    • #11
  12. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    And, as a lawyer, it can be trespassing even if you are admitted into a building, if you later refuse to leave when told to do so.

    If??? That’s a standard lawyerly way of parsing a speculation to appear at first glance as a fact.

    Can’t be trespassing if invited to enter. Refusing to obey a law enforcement order to leave a different offense. Agree with Jerry the idiots who beat up the cop getting into the building by force should be prosecuted and doubt anyone on this site disagrees.

    The actual people who did it, sure.  But not their friends, neighbors, relatives, strangers who happened to be in the next building…

    • #12
  13. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    And, as a lawyer, it can be trespassing even if you are admitted into a building, if you later refuse to leave when told to do so.

    If??? That’s a standard lawyerly way of parsing a speculation to appear at first glance as a fact.

    Can’t be trespassing if invited to enter. Refusing to obey a law enforcement order to leave a different offense. Agree with Jerry the idiots who beat up the cop getting into the building by force should be prosecuted and doubt anyone on this site disagrees.

    Remaining when asked to leave is criminal trespass in Arizona.  ARS sec 13-1501.

    This may vary by jurisdiction, I suppose.  I should have made this clear.  Sorry about that. I don’t know the details of the criminal law applicable to the Capitol.

    • #13
  14. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    I consider the bulk of the Jan 6 trespassers being held without bail, without charges, and without decent representation to be political prisoners. Change my mind.

    • #14
  15. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    And, as a lawyer, it can be trespassing even if you are admitted into a building, if you later refuse to leave when told to do so.

    If??? That’s a standard lawyerly way of parsing a speculation to appear at first glance as a fact.

    Can’t be trespassing if invited to enter. Refusing to obey a law enforcement order to leave a different offense. Agree with Jerry the idiots who beat up the cop getting into the building by force should be prosecuted and doubt anyone on this site disagrees.

    Remaining when asked to leave is criminal trespass in Arizona. ARS sec 13-1501.

    This may vary by jurisdiction, I suppose. I should have made this clear. Sorry about that. I don’t know the details of the criminal law applicable to the Capitol.

    One thing that you find in many videos by “First Amendment Auditors” etc is that public officials – at least usually – have no authority to remove regular people from public buildings/facilities.  Even if they’re police.  They can’t ask you to leave, and then call it “trespassing” if you don’t, because it is not a lawful order or request.

    • #15
  16. Jules PA Member
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):
    criminal law applicable to the Capitol.

    Whatever the Dems say. It is like playing a game with a toddler, where the rules evolve to suit their desires. 😡

    • #16
  17. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    kedavis (View Comment):

    navyjag (View Comment):

    Flicker (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    And, as a lawyer, it can be trespassing even if you are admitted into a building, if you later refuse to leave when told to do so.

    If??? That’s a standard lawyerly way of parsing a speculation to appear at first glance as a fact.

    Can’t be trespassing if invited to enter. Refusing to obey a law enforcement order to leave a different offense. Agree with Jerry the idiots who beat up the cop getting into the building by force should be prosecuted and doubt anyone on this site disagrees.

    The actual people who did it, sure. But not their friends, neighbors, relatives, strangers who happened to be in the next building…

    Unequal justice is not justice. Either all people should be prosecuted for the same crimes, or non should be. I guess what so many conservatives seem to want is for only conservatives to be held to account, and not members of BLM. 

    • #17
  18. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator
    @Instugator

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    I consider the bulk of the Jan 6 trespassers being held without bail, without charges, and without decent representation to be political prisoners. Change my mind.

    Can’t. I agree with you.

    • #18
  19. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Doug, I’m interested in your opinion of Officer Dunn, if you care to give it.   I find it disturbing that his social media posts indicate some support for the Kenosha riots, and a description of Trump as “racist in chief.”  It’s my take that his job should be apolitical and that his views essentially undermine his credibility as a witness.

    • #19
  20. Fritz Coolidge
    Fritz
    @Fritz

    What? Still not publicly releasing the tens of thousand of hours of security camera footage?

    Some investigation/hearing.  Pelosi must be very fearful of what those videos would reveal.

    • #20
  21. Doug Watt Moderator
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Hoyacon (View Comment):

    Doug, I’m interested in your opinion of Officer Dunn, if you care to give it. I find it disturbing that his social media posts indicate some support for the Kenosha riots, and a description of Trump as “racist in chief.” It’s my take that his job should be apolitical and that his views essentially undermine his credibility as a witness.

    There are officers in this country that work some pretty tough neighborhoods, not just for one day. They work 10 hour shifts, night after night. There are rural deputies, small town police departments, and state troopers that know back-up is far more than a few minutes away.

    I didn’t buy into the belief that anger management issues, violent behavior, theft, rape, or assaults were dependent on a person’s skin color, ethnic heritage, or religious belief. My description of these individuals was two words, dumb ass. Dumb ass is gender neutral, and color neutral. I never asked anyone I arrested who they voted for on election day. I didn’t care if they started a hamster rescue shelter, and I never bought into the story they were turning around their life.

    Officer Dunn should understand that when he wears the uniform and the badge he needs to quit viewing the world and the people he deals with as if he were a sociology, or political science professor.

    • #21
  22. Columbo Member
    Columbo
    @Columbo

    Obama’s pastor might say that Congress’s chickens came home to roost. G D Congress.

    • #22
  23. Flicker Coolidge
    Flicker
    @Flicker

    Fortunately, the FBI was above initiating the Capitol insurgency. 

    • #23
  24. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    I consider the bulk of the Jan 6 trespassers being held without bail, without charges, and without decent representation to be political prisoners. Change my mind.

    The breakout of all people charged is attached.  https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases.  Rodin talked about doing an analysis of the status of everyone who has been charged.

    I think that you above sentence has five errors.

    First, the vast majority of the defendants have been charged with more than mere trespassing.

    Second, no one is being held without charges.

    Third, the vast majority of defendants have been released on their own recognizance.

    Fourth, those defendants who cannot afford an attorney have one appointed for them if they are facing jail time, which all of them are.

    Fifth, the defendants are alleged common criminals.  They are not “political prisoners.”  They are being held for their actions, not their speech.

    I trust that your mind has been changed.

    • #24
  25. Bob Armstrong Thatcher
    Bob Armstrong
    @BobArmstrong

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):

    I consider the bulk of the Jan 6 trespassers being held without bail, without charges, and without decent representation to be political prisoners. Change my mind.

    The breakout of all people charged is attached. https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases. Rodin talked about doing an analysis of the status of everyone who has been charged.

    I think that you above sentence has five errors.

    First, the vast majority of the defendants have been charged with more than mere trespassing.

    Second, no one is being held without charges.

    Third, the vast majority of defendants have been released on their own recognizance.

    Fourth, those defendants who cannot afford an attorney have one appointed for them if they are facing jail time, which all of them are.

    Fifth, the defendants are alleged common criminals. They are not “political prisoners.” They are being held for their actions, not their speech.

    I trust that your mind has been changed.

    Broken link.

    • #25
  26. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I consider the bulk of the Jan 6 trespassers being held without bail, without charges, and without decent representation to be political prisoners. Change my mind.

    The breakout of all people charged is attached.  https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases.  Rodin talked about doing an analysis of the status of everyone who has been charged.

    I think that you above sentence has five errors.

    First, the vast majority of the defendants have been charged with more than mere trespassing.

    Second, no one is being held without charges.

    Those are actually one thing, but yes everyone has been charged.  However, that is meaningless.  A prosecutor can charge anybody they want.  Indicting is also easy.  Getting innocent people to plead out is also easy for the Feds that have the D.C. jury pool as a threat.  Politics trumps justice. 

    • #26
  27. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I consider the bulk of the Jan 6 trespassers being held without bail, without charges, and without decent representation to be political prisoners. Change my mind.

    The breakout of all people charged is attached. https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases. Rodin talked about doing an analysis of the status of everyone who has been charged.

    I think that you above sentence has five errors.

    First, the vast majority of the defendants have been charged with more than mere trespassing.

    Second, no one is being held without charges.

    Those are actually one thing, but yes everyone has been charged. However, that is meaningless. A prosecutor can charge anybody they want. Indicting is also easy. Getting innocent people to plead out is also easy for the Feds that have the D.C. jury pool as a threat. Politics trumps justice.

    Most of the defendants have been released, so the pressure is not on them. 

    The defendants can always have the case tried to the Court, instead of a jury.  There is a truism in criminal law.  If you are guilty ask for a jury.  But if you are innocent, just have the case heard by the judge, and don’t bother with the jury.  

    • #27
  28. kedavis Member
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I consider the bulk of the Jan 6 trespassers being held without bail, without charges, and without decent representation to be political prisoners. Change my mind.

    The breakout of all people charged is attached. https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases.Rodin talked about doing an analysis of the status of everyone who has been charged.

    I think that you above sentence has five errors.

    First, the vast majority of the defendants have been charged with more than mere trespassing.

    Second, no one is being held without charges.

    Those are actually one thing, but yes everyone has been charged. However, that is meaningless. A prosecutor can charge anybody they want. Indicting is also easy. Getting innocent people to plead out is also easy for the Feds that have the D.C. jury pool as a threat. Politics trumps justice.

    Most of the defendants have been released, so the pressure is not on them.

    The defendants can always have the case tried to the Court, instead of a jury. There is a truism in criminal law. If you are guilty ask for a jury. But if you are innocent, just have the case heard by the judge, and don’t bother with the jury.

    Depends.  Do you want your case decided by one judge whose home address, children’s schools, etc, may be known by BLM/Antifa/etc?

    • #28
  29. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I consider the bulk of the Jan 6 trespassers being held without bail, without charges, and without decent representation to be political prisoners. Change my mind.

    The breakout of all people charged is attached. https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases. Rodin talked about doing an analysis of the status of everyone who has been charged.

    I think that you above sentence has five errors.

    First, the vast majority of the defendants have been charged with more than mere trespassing.

    Second, no one is being held without charges.

    Those are actually one thing, but yes everyone has been charged. However, that is meaningless. A prosecutor can charge anybody they want. Indicting is also easy. Getting innocent people to plead out is also easy for the Feds that have the D.C. jury pool as a threat. Politics trumps justice.

    Maybe I should have specified “charged with crimes that would warrant 6 months in jail (and will they get credit for time served??) when antifa and BLM rioters burned private business, attacked police with lasers and frozen water bottles, and vandalized federal buildings and walked away scot free.” There is no equality before the law in 21st century America. Some pigs (Congress) are more equal than others (ordinary citizens). 

    • #29
  30. Gary Robbins Reagan
    Gary Robbins
    @GaryRobbins

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Gary Robbins (View Comment):

    I consider the bulk of the Jan 6 trespassers being held without bail, without charges, and without decent representation to be political prisoners. Change my mind.

    The breakout of all people charged is attached. https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases.Rodin talked about doing an analysis of the status of everyone who has been charged.

    I think that you above sentence has five errors.

    First, the vast majority of the defendants have been charged with more than mere trespassing.

    Second, no one is being held without charges.

    Those are actually one thing, but yes everyone has been charged. However, that is meaningless. A prosecutor can charge anybody they want. Indicting is also easy. Getting innocent people to plead out is also easy for the Feds that have the D.C. jury pool as a threat. Politics trumps justice.

    Most of the defendants have been released, so the pressure is not on them.

    The defendants can always have the case tried to the Court, instead of a jury. There is a truism in criminal law. If you are guilty ask for a jury. But if you are innocent, just have the case heard by the judge, and don’t bother with the jury.

    Depends. Do you want your case decided by one judge whose home address, children’s schools, etc, may be known by BLM/Antifa/etc?

    Well, I don’t know about DC, but in Arizona, Judges, Police and Prosecutors have their addresses hidden by statute.    

    • #30