Ivermectin: For COVID or for the Worms?

 

In my state of Missouri, COVID is apparently raging more than anywhere else in the country. This fact is even featured as one of the two lead stories at Drudge Report right now. Where I live in Missouri seems to be affected least by the virus of anywhere else in the state. I have been following the statistics for COVID in the county located between where I currently live and where I used to live as twice last year I invited people to a local event and wanted to keep an eye on how things were doing in that particular county. Here is a very brief overview of those statistics:

07/20/2021 — 23 ; active probables: 7
06/04/2021 — 0 ; active probables: 1
03/15/2021 — 46 ; active probables: 73 (huge drop-off)
03/08/2021 — 382 ; active probables: 153
01/04/2021 — 894 ; active probables: 171 (peak infection)
11/04/2020 — 441 (no active probables prior 12/10/2020)
10/28/2020 — 261
09/18/2020 — 85
08/20/2020 — 161 (2020 summer peak)
07/01/2020 — 19 (best 2020 summer rate)

So the virus isn’t too bad right now compared to where things were around New Year’s Day.

It seems like the place hardest hit in perhaps the entire nation is Springfield, MO. Although Springfield is a college town and the third-largest city in Missouri, it also tends to be a very conservative area, although even college cities in Missouri have been moving further Left recently perhaps due to cosmopolitan youth hatred of Trump and/or Republicans. The city is the headquarters for the Assemblies of God USA and is where Attorney General John Ashcroft’s father was a religious university president. Springfield’s county hasn’t voted for a Democrat for president since World War II except for LBJ’s landslide election 57 years ago.

So I thought I would click on the website for the Springfield, Missouri, newspaper and see how things are going there. I was suddenly confronted with an article titled “Why are some in the Ozarks using a med for deworming cattle for COVID?” The alternative title is “Reader asks why some are taking a med for cattle deworming for COVID-19.” What? The article states the following:

“A reader who tells me her family has cattle on a farm recently asked if I was aware that some in the Ozarks are taking a drug called ivermectin, often used in the deworming of cattle, for the prevention and treatment of COVID-19. The short answer is No. ‘I have heard kind of anecdotally, just looking at Facebook posts, people have talked about it,’ said Scott Allen, with the Webster County Health Unit. ‘But I have not heard of anybody in Webster County using it or anybody locally using it. And certainly I have not heard of any doctors prescribing it.’ Ivermectin is used to remove parasites. It is not an antiviral medication. …  Two local health experts told me people should not be using ivermectin for COVID-19. If I had the time and space I probably could obtain a couple thousand more medical sources to say the same.”

I don’t know how many times I’ve heard about ivermectin recently, but it’s been — a lot. It sure doesn’t seem like the two sides of the COVID virus debate will never communicate with each other.

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  1. Kevin Schulte Member
    Kevin Schulte
    @KevinSchulte

    It’s all about smearing those who do not buy lock stock and barrel the lefts narrative on COVID.  

    • #1
  2. Kelly B Member
    Kelly B
    @KellyB

    Well, there’s this (apologies for any formatting weirdness, phone’s not cooperating):

    Use of Ivermectin Is Associated With Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Ivermectin in COVID Nineteen Study

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33065103/

     

    • #2
  3. Ole Summers Member
    Ole Summers
    @OleSummers

    Ok, we all know I’m a little off center anyway so…. Although I have had my stick in the arm I have used some of this from early on…. since we usually have a lot on hand because of worming cattle , I simply pour our a cap full and run it down my arm every week- this form is taken thru the skin.

    But it has been used for years in humans around the world- that is what it was developed for so its side effects have had plenty time to be seen. But is plenty of study on this and COVID but it takes a lot of flack from the usual suspects. It is handed out on in both Mexico and India for COVID. A couple of sources to look at on this are FLCCC (Front Line COVID Crital Care Alliance), BIRD Group and an independent research Andrew Hill. 

    It has had very promising results both to prevent and treat – just like HCQ – but like it has been around for a long time, is proven safe for humans, the patient has run out and so is cheap as hell. None of which have historically been a favorite of the good doctor Fauci.

    Although I have my shot too, I have just as much or more faith in a cap of Ivermec down the arm weekly and three fingers of whiskey every night.

    • #3
  4. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    The Cloaked Gaijin: It sure doesn’t seem like the two sides of the COVID virus debate will never communicate with each other.

    This is the latest attempt by the left to divide Americans into two or more tribes.  If Trump had been re-elected, I have no doubt they’d be anti-vaxers.  Now that Biden “won” the election, they are pro-vax and want to deny civil rights to us unwashed unvaccinated . . .

    • #4
  5. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Stad (View Comment):
    This is the latest attempt by the left to divide Americans into two or more tribes.  If Trump had been re-elected, I have no doubt they’d be anti-vaxers

    Hysterically this is now the “conservative” position for many.  Despite the fact it was the Trump admin that helped develop and rapidly deploy the vaccines, which have good efficacy and safety, despite the hysterical postings we see.

    And damn both sides for politicizing are public health problem. Blood on both their hands.

    • #5
  6. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    From what I have read in terms of studies, Ivermectin has some efficacy and is certainly worth a try, but it’s not a magic bullet and does not substitute for vaccination.  

    • #6
  7. Kephalithos Member
    Kephalithos
    @Kephalithos

    Kozak (View Comment): From what I have read in terms of studies, Ivermectin has some efficacy and is certainly worth a try, but it’s not a magic bullet and does not substitute for vaccination.

    The problem, as I understand it, is that a lot of doctors don’t bother recommending any treatment — ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, or anything else — until the patient is on his deathbed, at which point they say, “Well, it’s too late! Too bad! Should’ve gotten a vaccine!”

    I’m pro-vaccination, but I don’t see why doctors shouldn’t be proactive and make some attempt to treat the virus. Among people I know who’ve had COVID, the experience has been the same: They feel ill, then take a test, and the test result is positive, so the doctor says, “Go away. Drink some water. If you start suffocating, come to the emergency room.”

    • #7
  8. DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) Coolidge
    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!)
    @DonG

    Remember those news stories about morgues using refrigerated trucks to store bodies?   We don’t hear stories like that anymore.  

    • #8
  9. Brian Watt Member
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Kozak (View Comment):

    From what I have read in terms of studies, Ivermectin has some efficacy and is certainly worth a try, but it’s not a magic bullet and does not substitute for vaccination.

    That’s where the whiskey comes in. Duh.

    • #9
  10. Captain French Moderator
    Captain French
    @AlFrench

    Kephalithos (View Comment):

    Kozak (View Comment): From what I have read in terms of studies, Ivermectin has some efficacy and is certainly worth a try, but it’s not a magic bullet and does not substitute for vaccination.

    The problem, as I understand it, is that a lot of doctors don’t bother recommending any treatment — ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, or anything else — until the patient is on his deathbed, at which point they say, “Well, it’s too late! Too bad! Should’ve gotten a vaccine!”

    I’m pro-vaccination, but I don’t see why doctors shouldn’t be proactive and make some attempt to treat the virus. Among people I know who’ve had COVID, the experience has been the same: They feel ill, then take a test, and the test result is positive, so the doctor says, “Go away. Drink some water. If you start suffocating, come to the emergency room.”

    Recall Rob Long’s anecdote: when he and his family got WuFlu, he was given ivermectin and his brother hydroxychloroquine immediately. (They had different symptoms.) 

    • #10
  11. Captain French Moderator
    Captain French
    @AlFrench

    Indonesia was doing well using ivermectin until the government put a stop to it.

     

    • #11
  12. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    Ole Summers (View Comment):
    …I simply pour our a cap full and run it down my arm….

    That’s how they discovered how to vaccinate for smallpox…the milkmaids who came into contact with cowpox. Yes, yes, ivermectin is not a vaccine….

    I was in a Farm and Fleet a week or so ago; there were rookies looking at the horse paste and only one small vial of cattle injectible on the shelf.

    • #12
  13. Dill Coolidge
    Dill
    @Dill

    Kozak (View Comment):

    From what I have read in terms of studies, Ivermectin has some efficacy and is certainly worth a try, but it’s not a magic bullet and does not substitute for vaccination.

    I appreciate hearing this. Elsewhere on the internet, I hear that it’s either a cure-all, or a useless drug and the subject of dangerous misinformation.

    • #13
  14. Mountie Coolidge
    Mountie
    @Mountie

    Heather Heying snd Bret Wienstien have been calling attention to Ivermectin on their DarkHorse podcast. Some of their best episodes have been taken down by YouTube for violating community standards (not sure which community YouTube is guarding but it isn’t the scientific community). This episode is still available. 

     

     

     

    • #14
  15. Unsk Member
    Unsk
    @Unsk

    Cloaked:It sure doesn’t seem like the two sides of the COVID virus debate will never communicate with each other.

    There  is a reason for that. If Ivermectin and HCQ  for that matter were rightly recognized as treatments for COVID, the FDA could not grant the “Emergency Use Authorization” for the COVID mRNA vaccines by law.  

    That is why Dr Death aka Dr Fauci  blocked Trump from distributing 60 million doses of HCQ and saving hundreds of thousands of lives. And it’s also why no honest study of HCQ and Ivermectin will be allowed by the Big Pharma cabal, the FDA, the CDC and the NIH because their deadly conspiracy would be exposed. 

     

    • #15
  16. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Kozak (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):
    This is the latest attempt by the left to divide Americans into two or more tribes. If Trump had been re-elected, I have no doubt they’d be anti-vaxers

    Hysterically this is now the “conservative” position for many. Despite the fact it was the Trump admin that helped develop and rapidly deploy the vaccines, which have good efficacy and safety, despite the hysterical postings we see.

    And damn both sides for politicizing are public health problem. Blood on both their hands.

    Good point.  The right would have taken the opposite side of the Dems regardless . . .

    • #16
  17. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    DonG (2+2=5. Say it!) (View Comment):

    Remember those news stories about morgues using refrigerated trucks to store bodies? We don’t hear stories like that anymore.

    For what it’s worth, they were never used to store bodies in the first place.

    • #17
  18. DrewInWisconsin, Oaf Member
    DrewInWisconsin, Oaf
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Captain French (View Comment):

    Recall Rob Long’s anecdote: when he and his family got WuFlu, he was given ivermectin and his brother hydroxychloroquine immediately. (They had different symptoms.)

    I can think of a few people who might still be alive if the doctors did that here. But unfortunately, the “treatment” was “stay at home and call us if it gets worse.” Well, by the time it got worse, it was too late for those early interventions that work.

    • #18
  19. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    I’m not a doctor or a conspiracy nut. But I am a communications and messaging expert (at least that’s what my degree says). If I were designing the world’s most ineffective marketing effort I could not come up with a better piece of crap than having experimental drugs pushed by the same people who think there are too many people in the world.

    • #19
  20. MiMac Thatcher
    MiMac
    @MiMac

    Kelly B (View Comment):

    Well, there’s this (apologies for any formatting weirdness, phone’s not cooperating):

    Use of Ivermectin Is Associated With Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Ivermectin in COVID Nineteen Study

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33065103/

    Not a great study- retrospective chart review and there were significant differences between the ivermectin group and the non ivermectin group. The study is a low quality study- as are most of the studies supporting ivermectin to date. There are several problems with the study:

    1-The ivermectin group received significantly more dexamethasone (one of the few drugs known to help in COVID).

    2-many patients got HCQ & AZT which have been shown to INCREASE mortality.

    3-the non-ivermectin patients were treated earlier on average than the ivermectin patients (so the hospital staff may have gotten better with experience- this has ruined a number of studies).

    https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/assets/info/ppih/if-ppih-covid-19-sag-ivermectin-in-treatment-and-prevention-rapid-review.pdf

    there are several meta analysis out there supporting ivermectin – but they all heavily relied on data that have since been retracted (Elgazaar in particular). Another Ricochet thread has covered it. The Elgazaar study is probably totally bogus and it is one the most important studies for those seeking to support the use of ivermectin. If you read about the discovery of multiple problems with the study it is almost comical. The authors placed their patient “data” on a password protected online registry- but the password was “1234”. So naturally it was easy to gain access to the data & when examined it showed that some patients expired before the study had even “started” and that some of the data appeared fictitious- so the study has been retracted.

    https://grftr.news/why-was-a-major-study-on-ivermectin-for-covid-19-just-retracted/

    https://steamtraen.blogspot.com/2021/07/Some-problems-with-the-data-from-a-Covid-study.html

    a good video explaining some of the problems:

    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/954681

    • #20
  21. Clifford A. Brown Contributor
    Clifford A. Brown
    @CliffordBrown

    Rob’s Rule:

    My observation is the more elevated someone’s academic status is, the more impressed policy makers are in that someone’s opinions. You’ve heard of the Phillips Curve, Moore’s Law and Occam’s Razor. Well here is a new axiom to consider that should be part of your economic vernacular, the “Rob Rule.” The more celebrated the expert, the more likely he is to be a self-aggrandizing, bloviating fool. Take Anthony Fauci. I had him pegged 14 months ago as a modern day Rasputin. Funny, how so-called experts are so stunningly wrong all the time. Let’s face it, when we fawn over “experts,” they get big heads and after a while they think of themselves as demi-gods.

    • #21
  22. Roderic Reagan
    Roderic
    @rhfabian

    Kelly B (View Comment):

    Well, there’s this (apologies for any formatting weirdness, phone’s not cooperating):

    Use of Ivermectin Is Associated With Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Ivermectin in COVID Nineteen Study

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33065103/

    This study shows positive results, but it’s small and the statistics are on the border of insignificance.  A larger study really should be done, but I doubt that will happen, unfortunately.  

    In the meantime, I see no harm in giving it a try.

    • #22
  23. Southern Pessimist Member
    Southern Pessimist
    @SouthernPessimist

    Even though the worst of this pandemic is behind us and I believe that is true, just this morning my sister-in-law told me a tale about her daughter’s friend in a near by town in southern Florida whose husband is a 45 year old unvacinated patient with covid who is on a ventilator in ICU. The wife asked about ivermectin prophylaxis for her and her children and was told by her doctor that if she prescribed ivermectin or hydroxycloroquine to anyone she would be fired from her position in her medical practice. I truly don’t know what the logic of this is but it is hard not to think that it is evil.

    • #23
  24. Ray Kujawa Coolidge
    Ray Kujawa
    @RayKujawa

    Kozak (View Comment):

    From what I have read in terms of studies, Ivermectin has some efficacy and is certainly worth a try, but it’s not a magic bullet and does not substitute for vaccination.

    Vaccination is preventative medicine, Ivermectin is a treatment. People are getting breakthrough cases of Covid after being vaccinated. I’d says it’s more likely that taking Ivermectin would be helpful but taking an additional shot of the vaccine would not likely be recommended with a breakthrough Covid case.

    Before vaccines were available, people were taking Ivermectin and getting better. But news of this was frequently squashed or repressed. That’s because the point of releasing SARS-CoV-2 on the world was to create an excuse to make everybody in the developed world take an experimental gene therapy to depopulate large swaths of the population of these countries. Finding effective treatments kind of messes that plan up.

    • #24
  25. Ray Kujawa Coolidge
    Ray Kujawa
    @RayKujawa

    Clifford A. Brown (View Comment):

    Rob’s Rule:

    My observation is the more elevated someone’s academic status is, the more impressed policy makers are in that someone’s opinions. You’ve heard of the Phillips Curve, Moore’s Law and Occam’s Razor. Well here is a new axiom to consider that should be part of your economic vernacular, the “Rob Rule.” The more celebrated the expert, the more likely he is to be a self-aggrandizing, bloviating fool. Take Anthony Fauci. I had him pegged 14 months ago as a modern day Rasputin. Funny, how so-called experts are so stunningly wrong all the time. Let’s face it, when we fawn over “experts,” they get big heads and after a while they think of themselves as demi-gods.

    My original nickname for Dr. Fauci was “Doctor Doom.”

    • #25
  26. Captain French Moderator
    Captain French
    @AlFrench

    MiMac (View Comment):

    Kelly B (View Comment):

    Well, there’s this (apologies for any formatting weirdness, phone’s not cooperating):

    Use of Ivermectin Is Associated With Lower Mortality in Hospitalized Patients With Coronavirus Disease 2019: The Ivermectin in COVID Nineteen Study

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33065103/

    Not a great study- retrospective chart review and there were significant differences between the ivermectin group and the non ivermectin group. The study is a low quality study- as are most of the studies supporting ivermectin to date. There are several problems with the study:

    1-The ivermectin group received significantly more dexamethasone (one of the few drugs known to help in COVID).

    2-many patients got HCQ & AZT which have been shown to INCREASE mortality.

    3-the non-ivermectin patients were treated earlier on average than the ivermectin patients (so the hospital staff may have gotten better with experience- this has ruined a number of studies).

    https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/assets/info/ppih/if-ppih-covid-19-sag-ivermectin-in-treatment-and-prevention-rapid-review.pdf

    there are several meta analysis out there supporting ivermectin – but they all heavily relied on data that have since been retracted (Elgazaar in particular). Another Ricochet thread has covered it. The Elgazaar study is probably totally bogus and it is one the most important studies for those seeking to support the use of ivermectin. If you read about the discovery of multiple problems with the study it is almost comical. The authors placed their patient “data” on a password protected online registry- but the password was “1234”. So naturally it was easy to gain access to the data & when examined it showed that some patients expired before the study had even “started” and that some of the data appeared fictitious- so the study has been retracted.

    https://grftr.news/why-was-a-major-study-on-ivermectin-for-covid-19-just-retracted/

    https://steamtraen.blogspot.com/2021/07/Some-problems-with-the-data-from-a-Covid-study.html

    a good video explaining some of the problems:

    https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/954681

    There are many problems with health studies in general.

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/07/26/time-to-assume-that-health-research-is-fraudulent-until-proven-otherwise/

     

     

     

    • #26