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How, Pray, Am I to Reply?
From a friend:
Jeb will lose anyways.
“Gosh, I hope the GOP doesn’t leave the entire conservative side of the field uncovered.”
Trump’s putative run is hardly the problem. He can no more “take” five percent than he can declare that blue shall be green. The five percent would be thrown to him explicitly to keep them out of the GOP’s hands.
The GOP is starting to get the sinking feeling? Good. Perhaps it will start to listen.
If Trump tries to run third party we keep him off the ballot in all swing states. We also make it clear to him that he will be hunted down like a dog after the election by all Republican officials in every jurisdiction he does business in. We need to plan to ruin him and his family completely. Constant vicious harassment. If he runs he either better win the presidency or flee the country, because if he stays we will burn down everything to extract from him our vengeance. No mercy! Also we will go after his family, his friends, everyone.
Shall I reload the pistol so we on the Right can shoot ourselves in the other foot? Because that seems to be our core competency so far in 2015.
Yes, yes he will. But the thing to do about Donald is stop trying to use scorn to rebut the emotional response he is eliciting because it is driving people farther into Trump’s camp – keep going and he’ll take the “kooks” with him.
You have to address the issues he’s bringing up in a serious way.
Immigration is the most prominent one and consider something: in the last decade the Republican Party has tried to pass “comprehensive” immigration reform twice (in 2007 and 2013) while trying to purport themselves as serious about “border security”. They’ve been stopped by a vociferous public flooding them with calls telling them to stop. And they still talk about “acts of love” or “heartless” conservatives.
The consultants and pundits should recognized that the GOP has spent the last forty years not engaging with issues like illegal immigration and it has led to a country where an illegal alien faces fewer penalties for commiting a felony than a citizen does. Don’t believe me? Check out how illegal aliens are handled with a DUI/DWI versus a citizen.
People are angry, fed up with being lied to, condescended to and they DO NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR YOU.
This is not Trump’s problem. This is not the voters’ problem. This is the GOP’s problem.
And if they cannot respond, if they cannot even acknowledge who is responsible for Donald Trump’s rise, they’ll go the way of the Whigs.
He didn’t run 3rd party the last time. He’s more popular at the moment, but there’s still a lot of time left.
If he’s really in it for the publicity rather than the chance of being elected President, then he will probably bow out soon enough rather than spend more money with a diminishing rate of return.
If he runs third party, the Republican nominee will need to lock down the base, despite exposing ourselves to loss of independents. I guess the outcome will be determine on what percent Trump gets. If it’s only five percent in a potentially Republican year, we might still overcome that. If Trump gets ten percent we lose and there’s nothing we could do about it.
Here’s what we can do. Get Michael Bloomberg to also run third (fourth?) party and hope he pulls from Hillary.
Sober up.
“That’s a nice life you have there Donald, shame if anything happened to it.”
Peter, it is only July. JULY! I have no doubt that Trump will reveal himself as a fool. It is as inevitable as is the rising of the sun. King Solomon wrote:
“A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion…A fool’s mouth is his ruin, and his lips are a snare to his soul.” Proverbs 18:2,7
We have a long season to go. I am not convinced that Trump is serious, much less his supporters. He has some support among those who are fed up with the usual D.C dance of “failure theater”, but I suspect once the populace at large turns their mind to the gravity of foreign affairs they will not risk a vote on Trump. Vegas trumpery (if you’ll pardon the pun) should stay in Vegas as the saying goes – it shouldn’t follow you home to sober reality.
Peter, your friend (and you) are basing your pessimism on a false premise:
That Trump “takes” votes from the Republican candidates. That assumes they belong to someone in the first place.
Incorrect.
It’s kind of like saying that Al Gore lost because Nader stole votes from him. No. If Al Gore were less of a piece of [crap], he would’ve earned those votes.
Each man’s vote is his own, to give to whoever he pleases. The solution is to run a better candidate who will earn those votes.
If he goes third-party, he’ll be going to make the biggest splash he can. He’ll figure out he can make the biggest splash if he takes some votes from Hillary too. It’s not like his principles (if he has any) are inconsistent with that. No Labels!
So if we manage to nominate a candidate Republicans actually like (say, the guy who just announced yesterday), while the Democrats are realizing what they’ve stuck themselves with, Trump might actually not be our problem.
So it’s okay to deny ballot access to someone who follows the rules in order to get the outcome you seek? That’s morally acceptable to you? That’s democracy to you?
Viva Cred Fole!
[we prefer the term republic]
I think we all know what it’s like to react to scorn by doubling down. The question is, when is this reaction actually effective, and when is it just letting your scorners live rent-free in your head?
Amen.
Someone is offering a new product that takes market share from our one. Do we (a) run to the gummint to have competition outlawed or (b) improve our product and marketing so we get the customers back?
I think these two statements show the answer. What to do about Trump is to make him a non-issue.
Attacking Trump for his positions is not working, he is getting more popular the more Republicans complain about him. We need a candidate to “triangulate”, take Trumps positions but do it in a serious way.
We also need to nominate someone who is not JEB. Trump is benefiting from the “anyone but JEB” phenomenon. (Herm Cain led in polls based on Any One but Romney)
If Walker, Jindal, Carli, Cruz, ect were able to tap into the same issues propelling Trump, Trump would not have a 3rd party candidacy that could really hurt Republicans.
I’m not sure there is a solution. I take it we’re all agreed that whatever part of the national vote he could win would come out of GOP votes more than Dem? Does anyone have a notion of what votes he might get in what swing states?
It’s almost never a good idea to respond to critique with emotion. I personal think Trump would be a disastrous candidate for any political party, I just don’t see him winning with a D, I or R behind him; he’s disastrous not because of what his issues are orwhat his personality is like but because he can’t win – considering the money spent in an election technically any losing candidate is a disaster however. Of course I’m not exactly the average American so what do I know?
As soon as candidates other than Trump convincingly talk about “comprehensive immigration enforcement,” rather than the BS about “comprehensive immigration reform,” they will undermine Trump and sweep in a surprising number of middle-of-the-road voters. The more the GOP exposes not the lack of laws, but the lack of enforcement, the more the lower information voters are awakened to this travesty.
The GOP goes down in flames in 2016 and beyond unless it drives a rule-of-law message rather than a squishy compromise approach worrying too much about illegal immigrants. This is a loser issue for Democrats, but the GOP is stunningly unwilling to press it.
Trumps primary contribution so far is helping to destroy the PC approach to discussing and debating this issue.
It’s an absolute disgrace that the GOP can’t make an issue out of illegals committing crimes, the Left supporting illegals in sanctuary cities, allowing so many visa overstayers to remain in the US, and the lack of will to drive out illegals who on top of entering illegally have either fabricated false identities or stolen the identities of US citizens.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Peter,
I have the solution that can not fail. I am in negotiation with a special group who wish to “serve” Trump in all of his activities. This could be the answer. The video will make it clear.
The only sticking point is payment. They only accept payment in some currency called “banana”. I don’t know what the exchange rate is yet. I’ll get back to you.
Regards,
Jim
The things we worry about…
Oh Fred. No more drunk commenting from you.
No, this guy is Mr. moral democracy. He has figured out all these other people are assuming undemocratic assumptions. The incorrect language is being used here & that is unacceptable.
Somewhat similarly, there can no talking about losing & winning elections–they are not yours to win or lose! The people wins in every election!
Mike Murphy must have some cogent suggestions on additional social principles the Republicans can jettison in exchange for a more impressive loss this time around. Its funny how in real life when Gotham City sends you a Bruce Wayne he doesn’t turn out to be quite the Batman you’ve all been looking for.
But, if you think he’s a Joker, just remember:
“You made me.”
“I’m giving Gotham back to the people.”
When words no longer mean things as in the latest Supreme Court ruling, don’t be surprised when someone starts using words that mean things you weren’t expecting.
Let Chapo Guzman handle it.
It’s the American way.
Peter, tell your friend that Trump is unwittingly doing the Republican Party a service by reminding those seeking its Presidential nomination that the party cannot win the general election if it continues to ignore the interests of American citizens. If the party continues to represents the interests of the Chamber of Commerce and ignores those of the working man, it will get whatever votes the Chamber can line up and working men will look elsewhere.
Trump himself is not an attractive man. He has an ugly record. His strength will dissipate if — and only if — the other candidates take note of the importance of this issue.
This is an old story in American politics. You ignore the interests of ordinary Americans at your own peril.
Peter,
Which wealthy group will finance Bernie Sanders independent run once he loses the Dem primary?