You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Brandon Zaffini ·
Dec 30, 2011 at 10:19am
The Ron Paul campaign recently released a video dealing with foreign policy, focusing particularly on the opinions of returning Veterans.
As a Vet myself, I was thrilled to see this video. I'm beginning to feel as though my voice, and the voice of other like-minded Veterans, is being considered. Finally.
I know the prevailing viewpoint here on Ricochet is very much opposed, so make of it what you will.
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Jul '11
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Pretty good ad. I'd love to hear arguments against this for completeness.
May '10
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Thanks Brandon. This is something I've been thinking about for a long time. Paul's ideas about foreign policy resonate with me, and I think, a majority of Americans. But, I am very concerned about Iran getting the bomb. I've heard many people argue that Congress would keep Romney in line on the domestic side...would someone who knows explain to me why congress would not provide a similar check on a president Paul's foreign policy?
Jun '10
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Brandon, how many " like-minded Veterans" are there? Don't you think it would be nice to know? Are there 2 or 4 or 200? Let's see some numbers. Then, we can proceed to make the harder decision as to whether they should be advising us on this, anyway. They can bring something to the table, I have no doubt. But, how convincing will they be to make us all run home and hunker down?
When Ron Paul says that he gets a lot of support from the military guys I want to see these numbers, also.
This isolationist streak goes way back and I understand it. I really want our soldiers moved out of Europe and other places where they are not needed except to bolster the local economy. Those kind of deployments make me ill.
But, here's the simple question that must be answered: if some people in a country don't want our businessmen or tourists there and some other people in that country do want our people there, what should we do if the bad guys kill Americans on legitimate travel? What would Ron Paul do? Cower? Ask for mercy in his whiny voice?
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Interesting video. Didn't Paul receive more contributions from active duty military in the 2008 cycle than any of his opponents? I have several active duty military friends who are hardcore Paul supporters, for what it's worth. One is a fighter pilot.
Anyway, I'm sympathetic to many of these ideas but I wish there were a candidate who wanted to adhere to the Constitution and have a more restrained foreign policy while also recognizing the very real threat of Islamic extremism that goes far beyond some of the simplistic explanations currently offered.
Dec '11
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Thanks for this, Brandon.
While I think Ron Paul underestimates the danger of a nuclear-armed Iran, I do agree that withdrawing our troops from Muslim lands would greatly diffuse the anger against us within the Islamic world.
But I do agree with the veterans in this video that Ron Paul is the only Republican candidate who is passionate and absolutely steadfast in defense of constitutional principles.
Jul '11
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Mollie Hemingway, Ed
Anyway, I'm sympathetic to many of these ideas but I wish there were a candidate who wanted to adhere to the Constitution and have a more restrained foreign policy while also recognizing the very real threat of Islamic extremism that goes far beyond some of the simplistic explanations currently offered. · Dec 29 at 4:25pm
Bingo.
May '10
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Larry Koler
When Ron Paul says that he gets a lot of support from the military guys I want to see these numbers, also.
This isolationist streak goes way back and I understand it. I really want our soldiers moved out of Europe and other places where they are not needed except to bolster the local economy. Those kind of deployments make me ill.
But, here's the simple question that must be answered: if some people in a country don't want our businessmen or tourists there and some other people in that country do want our people there, what should we do if the bad guys kill Americans on legitimate travel? What would Ron Paul do? Cower? Ask for mercy in his whiny voice? · Dec 29 at 4:14pm
The numbers you seek are actually shown in the video.
Your "some people verses some people" argument confused me a bit. It the government of a particular nation doesn't want us there, then so be it. If we have the right to outlaw trade with certain countries, then certainly others also have this right.
If trade with one nation proves dangerous, Americans will stop going there (think Mexico).
Jun '10
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Brandon, the more likely scenario is that a foreign government does want to do business with us and wants our tourist dollars. But there is a small minority within that country who don't want us there. OK, then if American citizens travel to that country, should we defend Americans who are being threatened by the smaller group?
Why is that question confusing? Are you avoiding me on this?
"If trade proves dangerous then Americans will stop going there." True, but it doesn't happen in your straw man way. What happens is that we go there, we are happily making a living there and later on some elements from within that foreign country get envious and want what we have built there and want what we own there. If Paul is president, all they have to do is kill our people or threaten them and take our property.
Does the Constitution only apply to the land of America? Or to its people no matter where they are?
Edited on Dec 29, 2011 at 5:09pmDec '11
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Does the Constitution only apply to the land of America? Or to its people no matter where they are?
It only applies within our borders. Try going on a sex tour in Thailand or a drug binge in Malaya and see where the Constitution gets you.
Jun '10
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Thanks for pointing out the dollar amount and the percentage representation of that dollar amount ($113,739). But how many people are giving? A few hundred? Sorry, that doesn't seem very convincing.
Now, how about answering why we should give these few people a leg up on advising the country?
You've been conned. The military angle here is the wrong way for Paul to go. He will lose this argument.
Should veterans be polled on this? Should we give special consideration to them? Should active duty personnel have a higher priority in this than veterans?
Jun '10
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Nobody's Perfect: Does the Constitution only apply to the land of America? Or to its people no matter where they are?
It only applies within our borders. Try going on a sex tour in Thailand or a drug binge in Malaya and see where the Constitution gets you. · Dec 29 at 5:21pm
Do Americans really lose our Constitutional privileges by leaving the country?
Dec '11
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Do Americans really lose our Constitutional privileges by leaving the country?
Yep. Try getting a Miranda warning anywhere else in the world. Try getting the right to an attorney during interrogation. Try getting bail. Try getting immunity from coercion and abuse during interrogation. Try getting humane conditions while incarcerated. Try asserting your 4th and 5th Amendment rights.
Maybe you need to watch Midnight Express.
May '10
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Larry Koler:
Why is that question confusing? Are you avoiding me on this?
"If trade proves dangerous then Americans will stop going there." True, but it doesn't happen in your straw man way. What happens is that we go there, we are happily making a living there and later on some elements from within that foreign country get envious and want what we have built there and want what we own there.
Does the Constitution only apply to the land of America? Or to its people no matter where they are? · Dec 29 at 5:08pm
Edited on Dec 29 at 05:09 pm
Larry, I'm not trying to avoid anything, but I would appreciate it if you dropped the tone. It makes these discussions maddening.
If you want to make a living in another country, perhaps you should consider moving there and becoming a permanent citizen. I'm not against international business, but if a dangerous minority in another nation decides they don't like us, and their government does not stop them, why do you consider it a right for Americans to abide there unharmed?
The Constitution is only binding over America, yes.
Jul '11
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Nobody's Perfect: Do Americans really lose our Constitutional privileges by leaving the country?
Yep. Try getting a Miranda warning anywhere else in the world. Try getting the right to an attorney during interrogation. Try getting bail. Try getting immunity from coercion and abuse during interrogation. Try getting humane conditions while incarcerated. Try asserting your 4th and 5th Amendment rights.
Maybe you need to watch Midnight Express. · Dec 29 at 5:34pm
You ever been in a Turkish prison Danny?
I know one place a sex tour gets you, and that is to an AIDS specialist. Seen a few pervos come back with it. Those guys are no different in stupidity than the bath house loony gays and they reap the whirlwind.
Larry, I believe you are underestimating the percentage of military that thinks they have been part of a big mistake and therefore gravitate to Paul. I know quite a few current and former that are quite passionate these days. We shall see though.
Edited on Dec 29, 2011 at 5:43pmJun '10
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Nobody's Perfect: Do Americans really lose our Constitutional privileges by leaving the country?
Yep. Try getting a Miranda warning anywhere else in the world. Try getting the right to an attorney during interrogation. Try getting bail. Try getting immunity from coercion and abuse during interrogation. Try getting humane conditions while incarcerated. Try asserting your 4th and 5th Amendment rights.
Maybe you need to watch Midnight Express. · Dec 29 at 5:34pm
You are confusing how the Constitution works with Americans with how it does not apply to foreigners.
Let's make this easy: Is the president not president as soon as he leaves the country?
Dec '11
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
You ever been in a Turkish prison Danny?
No, but I love gladiator movies.
Dec '11
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Let's make this easy: Is the president not president as soon as he leaves the country?
That is easy. The President is protected by diplomatic immunity. You? You're on your own.
Jun '10
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Brandon Zaffini
...
Larry, I'm not trying to avoid anything, but I would appreciate it if you dropped the tone. It makes these discussions maddening.
If you want to make a living in another country, perhaps you should consider moving there and becoming a permanent citizen. I'm not against international business, but if a dangerous minority in another nation decides they don't like us, and their government does not stop them, why do you consider it a right for Americans to abide there unharmed?
...
I didn't say Americans have a right to abide there unharmed. I just wanted to get some clarity on what causes Americans to fight outside the boundaries of this country. I am showing a scenario that you can't be completely dogmatic about. Did Paul support the war in Afghanistan, BTW? If so, then you have a disagreement with him. Afghanistan has some people who don't want us there and some people who do. What to do?
Jun '10
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
Nobody's Perfect: Let's make this easy: Is the president not president as soon as he leaves the country?
That is easy. The President is protected by diplomatic immunity. You? You're on your own. · Dec 29 at 5:46pm
Does diplomatic immunity make him president or did the Constitution do that?
Jun '10
Re: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
DocJay
...
Larry, I believe you are underestimating the percentage of military that thinks they have been part of a big mistake and therefore gravitate to Paul. I know quite a few current and former that are quite passionate these days. We shall see though.
Well, I can handle the data any way that it goes -- I just want to know the data so that we can then go to the next question about how much influence this portion of the electorate should have.
I know these are two different questions but they interact with each other. If there are few people involved then we stop right there and don't proceed because there are always a few people who believe and support anything -- even the Libertarian Party (although not very many).
If some large minority or small majority of active duty personnel feel one way about a topic then I find that very compelling -- but it still might not change my mind on a given issue regarding military actions.
Don't forget the lies that John Kerry told about how many traitors there were in the American veterans. Later data showed the "winter soldier" stuff to be made up.