You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
I'm completely forgetting who, but yesterday in a comment thread someone outlined all of the ways in which Barack Obama's family and childhood were outside the norm. The commenter then expressed surprise that the Obama campaign's m.o. would be to paint Mitt Romney as "weird." That's the language that people close to the campaign have been bandying about for months.
This has to be the most ill-considered campaign strategy ever. For instance:
The Daily Beast contacted the office of Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer today to talk about whether his state would be in play in the 2012 presidential election. About a half hour later, the governor called back, and he had a lot to say. He didn’t think that Montana would be a swing state, but the Democrat did say that Mitt Romney could have issues nationally because his father was “born on a polygamy commune in Mexico.”
Now, I married someone who was raised Mormon and I can tell you that when I found out, on the eve of our wedding, that he had polygamous ancestors, I was more surprised than I should have been. Everyone on earth probably has polygamous ancestors, but in most cases mine are a hundred generations or so removed. It's not part of my culture and we have well-established theological reasons for opposing it.
But are we really supposed to believe that Romney is beyond the pale because his father was born on a polygamous commune? That argument would seem to work a lot better if President Obama's father weren't in exactly the same situation. As the Washington Post mentioned:
The line of polygamists in Obama’s family can be traced back generations in western Kenya, where it was an accepted practice within the Luo (pronounced LOO-oh) tribe. His great-grandfather, Obama Opiyo, had five wives, including two who were sisters. His grandfather, Hussein Onyango, had at least four wives, one of whom, Akumu, gave birth to the president’s father, Barack Obama, before fleeing her abusive husband. Obama Sr. was already married when he left Kenya to study at the University of Hawaii, where he married again. His American wife-to-be, Stanley Ann Dunham, was not yet 18 and unaware of his marital situation when she became pregnant with his namesake son in 1961.
I'm not a campaign professional, but if we want to have a weird-off instead of discussing the actual issues, I'm not entirely sure this would help President Obama as much as his advisers seem to think it would.
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Jul '11
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
@John Murdoch: If this is a micro-campaign against a targeted voter block I would expect that the reporting will be very uneven. The targeted block will be getting bombarded with this message at most places they have been identified to frequent while non targeted blocks may not even hear this message. Places like The Daily Beast and Ricochet may see the message’s blowback since we are attuned to the political but since we will not be bombarded like the target group we may miss its import. Lately I have been thinking that the Martin / Zimmerman issue may be a micro-campaigned issue to push certain voting blocks actions. It should be an interesting campaign.
Apr '11
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
tabula rasa: As most of you know, I'm a Mormon. I have polygamist ancestors on both sides (though it's worth noting that most Mormons back then werenotpolygamists). It was on October 6,1890(that's right, 122 years ago) that Wilford Woodruff ended the practice of polygamy.
The quickest way to be excommunicated from the Church is to practice polygamy. When you hear about small groups who practice polygamy, you are hearing about splinter groups, most of which splintered many decades ago. They are not associated with the same Church that Mitt and 6 million other Americans belong to.
It's my understanding that Miles Park Romney, Mitt's polygamous great grandfather, was sent to found Colonia Dublan specifically in order to evade the 1890 edict, which incorporated American law and was held not to apply outside America.
As such, when (monogamous) grandfather Gaskell Romney fled Mexican persecution in 1912, he was leaving a polygamist diocese (stake?) in good standing with the rest of the LDS. It's less close than Obama's polygamous grandfather, but closer, I think, than 1890.
I would love to learn more; it's hard to find unprejudiced sites.
Mar '12
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
James Of England
I would loveto learn more; it's hard to find unprejudiced sites. · 5 minutes ago
Under the Banner of Heaven is good, if you take it for what it is. I've been following the FLDS and similar groups for about a decade now, and I've noticed something--there are only a handful of surnames among the polygamy practicing splinter groups. Regardless of the group, you see Barlows, Jessops, LeBarons and Allreds in every group. My personal theory is basically
1. At least some aspects of the church hierarchy approved of continuing to practice polygamy and may have tacitly approved of some splinter groups.
2. This institutional support died out with that immediate post-ban generation, and most people who persisted in polygamy past its being banned stopped after a generation, leaving a few extended family groups carrying on the practice.
The family trees of most of the polygamy practicing groups are so close they are practically braided. The star of Sister Wives (not FLDS) is married to 4 women--two of them are Allreds and probably close cousins. The FLDS is mostly descended from their the Barlows or Jessops and genetic disease is rampant.
Edited on April 20, 2012 at 7:20pmApr '11
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
Madcap
James Of England
I would loveto learn more; it's hard to find unprejudiced sites. · 5 minutes ago
Under the Banner of Heaven is good, if you take it for what it is. I've been following the FLDS and similar groups for about a decade now....
Is this good for the Romney clan issues, the turn of the century Mexican colonies and such, or just the splinter groups? The splinter groups seem like an interesting thing to study, but not a big priority. To be explicit, I'd like to be better able to discuss this stuff with evangelicals prepped with voluminous anti-Mormon literature.
So far as I'm concerned, the FLDS are to the LDS as the KKK are to Baptists; so long as that line keeps working, I don't need to know too much more about the FLDS (or, for that matter, the KKK). To be yet more explicit, I don't really want to be having that conversation at all, but it's important not to sound evasive, and that's hard when you're ignorant; better to be able to talk as long as they want, while making it dry and dull.
Mar '12
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
James Of England
Madcap
James Of England
Is this good for the Romney clan issues, the turn of the century Mexican colonies and such, or just the splinter groups? The splinter groups seem like an interesting thing to study, but not a big priority. To be explicit, I'd like to be better able to discuss this stuff with evangelicals prepped with voluminous anti-Mormon literature.
So far as I'm concerned, the FLDS are to the LDS as the KKK are to Baptists; so long as that line keeps working, I don't need to know too much more about the FLDS (or, for that matter, the KKK). To be yet more explicit, I don't really want to be having that conversation at all, but it's important not to sound evasive, and that's hard when you're ignorant; better to be able to talk as long as they want, while making it dry and dull. · 1 hour ago
I've got some titles in mind; let me dig through my books at home and get back to you.
Edited on April 20, 2012 at 9:46pmMay '10
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
HVTs: Mollie - apparently you need to be reminded of the all-purpose Democrat retort, suitable for all occasions and circumstances:
"That's different! Obama's Dad wasn't rich or white!" · 7 hours ago
You're exactly right. The ideology of multiculturalism completely acquits Obama from any weirdness deriving from his ancestors' behavior, while preserving that weirdness for Romney. It's the same unthinking reflex that causes liberals to ignore in Muslim countries the mistreatment of women by their husbands, prohibitions on women driving, requirements to wear full burqas, female genital mutilation, etc., but raise hell over nebulous gender-wage disparities in the West.
Jun '10
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
Madcap
Regardless of the group, you see Barlows, Jessops, LeBarons and Allreds in every group.
Madcap: You know far more about the "fundamentalist Mormons" than I do (they've never interested me much), but you've certainly identified the primary surnames. Barlow and Allred is a common name among polygamist groups, but those surnames are common enough in the general population that meeting someone in Utah with that last name doesn't cause you to wonder whether there's a relationship. I know both Barlows and Allreds who are your standard-issue one-wife-at-a-time Mormons. Jessop and LeBaron are far less common and far more likely to make one wonder.
I've not seen any studies about genetic disease, but I've got to believe you're right about small, self-contained communities like Colorado City, AZ and Hillsdale, UT (which is really one community that straddles the border).
Edited on April 20, 2012 at 10:52pmFeb '11
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
James Of England
I wouldloveto learn more; it's hard to find unprejudiced sites.
The FAIR-LDS site has some thorough research on the topic. They are obviously coming at this with a pro-Mormon bias, but they don't cover stuff up, either.
Of course, this sort of information won't sway anyone who is already inclined to believe that Mitt and Mormons are weird, since it has been shown that people don't think logically about politics.
Oct '10
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
Mark Wilson
HVTs: Mollie - apparently you need to be reminded of the all-purpose Democrat retort, suitable for all occasions and circumstances:
"That's different! Obama's Dad wasn't rich or white!"
You're exactly right. The ideology of multiculturalism completely acquits Obama from any weirdness deriving from his ancestors' behavior, while preserving that weirdness for Romney. It's the same unthinking reflex that causes liberals to ignore in Muslim countries the mistreatment of women by their husbands, prohibitions on women driving, requirements to wear full burqas, female genital mutilation, etc., but raise hell over nebulous gender-wage disparities in the West.
It's the sort of logic that leads to 'Blacks can't be racist because Whites owned slaves.' (Google "blacks can't be racist" and you'll find plenty of this claptrap.) Needless to say, to use this logic and conclude that Jews can't be oppressors because of the Holocaust doesn't garner the same Lefty head nodding.
Dec '11
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
My Chinese-Canadian great-grandfather had multiple wives.
Nov '10
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
Madcap
Under the Banner of Heaven is good, if you take it for what it is. I've been following the FLDS and similar groups for about a decade now, and I've noticed something--there are only a handful of surnames among the polygamy practicing splinter groups. Regardless of the group, you see Barlows, Jessops, LeBarons and Allreds in every group. My personal theory is basically
1. At least some aspects of the church hierarchy approved of continuing to practice polygamy and may have tacitly approved of some splinter groups.
Everyone I know who has spent time in Utah and who is not Mormon says that you encounter polygamous families a lot even in the Salt Lake City area. Physicians say that one frequently walks into patient rooms and encounters more than one of the patient's wives. Can anyone explain this to me? Are there more splinter groups than we know about in larger population areas than we understand, or does the LDS tolerate a bit of fudging on the actual rules? I'm friendly with lots of Mormons, but don't dare ask this question.
Apr '11
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
Bradley Ross
James Of England
I wouldloveto learn more; it's hard to find unprejudiced sites.
The FAIR-LDS site has some thorough research on the topic. They are obviously coming at this with a pro-Mormon bias, but they don't cover stuff up, either.
Of course, this sort of information won't sway anyone who is already inclined to believe that Mitt and Mormons are weird, since it has been shown that people don't think logically about politics. · 14 hours ago
Thank you. That's perfect.
Mar '11
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
The whole red herring about Romney's polygamous great-grandfather is more proof that liberals see themselves as being above morality which, like the law, applies only to their inferiors. That, and their willingness to use any weapon that comes to hand.
If forbears are being disparaged: didn't the Mau Maus use cannibalism as a form of terrorism and to demonstrate their rejection of western values?
Feb '11
Re: You Can't Win The Presidency If You Have Polygamous Ancestors
Lucy Pevensie
does the LDS tolerate a bit of fudging on the actual rules? I'm friendly with lots of Mormons, but don't dare ask this question.
No chance this would be winked at. A polygamist would be excommunicated for sure. There are people in splinter groups that might refer to themselves as Mormons, but they aren't part of the same institution as Mitt Romney.