Would you raise your kid in the city?
Any Calvin and Hobbes fans around? Try to imagine what Calvin would have been like with no woods in sight, with only brick and concrete to explore. Or how about the Taxi Driver types, looking with disgust at the neon-lit trash and boarded-up storefronts around them - could such attitudes survive a drive down Anne Shirley's White Way of Delight?
Look, I know that these things shouldn't matter, that what matters is on the inside, not the outside, etc, etc. I got plenty of pushback in a prior post arguing in favor of more grown up clothing (hey, at least Peggy Noonan agrees with me about the 'mooks' [update: PJ O'Rourke does, too!]), and I'm sure many will raise similar objections: God no more cares about our landscaping than our laundry, and the divine truths of the world are just as accessible in the projects as in the prairie. Granted, granted. But, generally speaking, I am speaking generally. The good will find goodness, the evildoers evil, no matter the setting. That leaves the rest of us, for whom circumstances matter. And I think that, no matter what you American Beauty fans say, it is easier to lift one's soul with a view of the woods at sunset, and thoughts of their creator, than by contemplating a discarded plastic bag, and its supermarket logo.
I'm biased, I admit it: I grew up just like Calvin or Anne or Christopher Robin, exploring the woods with only my faithful dog and my imagination by my side (returning as an adult, I was shocked by how small that forest was; just fifteen years ago, it had been my whole world). I live in the city now, and, spending time in the 'underserved urban communities,' I just don't understand how people can raise their kids surrounded by liquor stores and graffiti. Yes, I believe the breakdown of the family is the single most influential factor in our current state of affairs, but couldn't a single mom at the least raise her innocent, curious babe somewhere in the vicinity of shrubbery? The government can mail welfare checks to the countryside, too, can't it?
I'm not talking just about the hopelessly poor; my apartment building is full of young professional couples skilled at squeezing strollers into packed elevators. Raising my child in an apartment, with carpeted hallways instead of hills, stairwells and parking garages instead of squirrels and sparrows, I don't know, I don't think I could do it. Well, actually, no squirrels would've been nice, I hate those tulip-eating jerks.
So what do you guys think?
(As for the election season political angle, well, I bet you can just about guess my thoughts on the Obama administration's latest attack on child farmers...)
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Mar '12
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Casey: I raise my two children in a downtown condominium. The experience is wonderful. They have every festival and event outside their front door. Museums, theaters, parks, ballparks, and concert halls within walking distance. And every day they see people of all stripes. All of which stimulates and challenges the mind.
Small towns and rural life have appeal to me. But suburbs? Forget it. They deaden the soul. · 4 hours ago
Don't believe the hype - it's not suburbs that deaden the soul. It's failing to recognize it is a big world with multiple paths to fulfillment that deadens the soul.
Sep '11
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
I live in the outermost suburbs of what I term "the greater metropolitan area" of a town of 2,500 people, right smack on the Appalachian Trail. We live in a small tract of privately-held land within a state park.
My kids all had horses, and all have participated in 4-H. I cannot think of a better antidote to the endless drumbeat of hyper-sexualized advertising and media barrage that young girls get than an 800 lb. pony. There is nothing like the responsibility of a large, living animal--your responsibility, not your mom or dad's--to help a young person mature.
We don't have an art museum, opera, symphony, and international airport within walking distance. We do have 1100 acres of wilderness just over the back fence. We can see stars at night; we can see the Appalachian Trail all day.
We don't lock our doors. We don't just know the neighbors--we know the names of their dogs. We know the park rangers--they know whose kids belong to which house.
It isn't the city.
But it is where the city dwellers come to "get away from it all."
Dec '10
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Chris
Casey: I raise my two children in a downtown condominium. The experience is wonderful. They have every festival and event outside their front door. Museums, theaters, parks, ballparks, and concert halls within walking distance. And every day they see people of all stripes. All of which stimulates and challenges the mind.
Small towns and rural life have appeal to me. But suburbs? Forget it. They deaden the soul. · 4 hours ago
Don't believe the hype - it's not suburbs that deaden the soul. It's failing to recognize it is a big world with multiple paths to fulfillment that deadens the soul. · 2 minutes ago
And in response to Casey's comment about the suburbs deadening the soul, I would flip that to the city being the killer. See, where I live, the left wing zombies all live in the city. The sane folks stay out in the burbs.
Seriously though, there is a dramatic difference from one suburb to the next, one city to the next. Salt Lake City vs. Detroit. In my neck of the woods, Wilsonville vs. Oregon City. I suppose I'm saying that you probably can't generalize on any of the settings.
Apr '11
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Would I raise kids in the city? No, I moved from Denver to the Oregon coast.
Edited on April 26, 2012 at 5:21amApr '11
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
I have lived in rural Hawaii (25 miles to a restaurant), urban (Seattle) and suburban (Northern CA). All have there benefits and costs.
I believe that the big change in the world is how much freedom we allow our kids. Talking to my mother-in-law as to how she would get herself around NYC when she was just 10, or when I was 8 the distances I would wander from my home in rural Hawaii.
Exploring, interacting, and learning on your own are what kids need. Be it city, suburb or rural.
The 200 channels, Wii and other distractions make kids less likely to want to wander and overprotective parenting makes parents less likely to encourage or agree to kids wandering. With 4 channels on the TV and three old board games, why hurry home?
Mar '11
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
The Great Adventure!
Chris
And in response to Casey's comment about the suburbs deadening the soul, I would flip that to the city being the killer. See, where I live, the left wing zombies all live in the city. The sane folks stay out in the burbs.
Seriously though, there is a dramatic difference from one suburb to the next, one city to the next. Salt Lake City vs. Detroit. In my neck of the woods, Wilsonville vs. Oregon City. I suppose I'm saying that you probably can't generalize on any of the settings.
The suburban experience is, for the most part, an easy generic experience. Your house is like your neighbors house. Your yard is like your neighbors yard. Plano, TX is like Monroeville, PA is like Alpharetta, GA.
The city life, the small town life, the rural life, the beach life, the mountain life... these all draw, lead, force one to interact with the world. The suburban life shelters one from the world. The suburbs are a cocoon.
Believe me, as a parent I understand the appeal of the cocoon, but I just don't believe cocooning is in one's long-term interest.
Dec '10
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Casey
The Great Adventure!
Chris
The suburban experience is, for the most part, an easy generic experience. Your house is like your neighbors house. Your yard is like your neighbors yard. Plano, TX is like Monroeville, PA is like Alpharetta, GA.
The city life, the small town life, the rural life, the beach life, the mountain life... these all draw, lead, force one to interact with the world. The suburban life shelters one from the world. The suburbs are a cocoon.
Believe me, as a parent I understand the appeal of the cocoon, but I just don't believe cocooning is in one's long-term interest. · 3 minutes ago
You realize, don't you, that you're sounding terribly elitist. Personally I don't like to be forced to do anything. Drawing, leading, maybe, but forced? No thank you.
There may be some cocooning in the burbs, but it then becomes my choice (and my family's) to seek out other experiences.
And since I couldn't afford to send my kids to the expensive Catholic schools here (which btw are mostly in the suburbs), I chose the area that had the best public ones. Light years better.
Apr '11
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Huh, Casey, I wouldn't have pegged you as being so anti-suburb...
I can certainly understand why someone would prefer not to live in the 'burbs, but it's easy to see why someone would want that kind of lifestyle. There are tradeoffs no matter where you choose to live.
Edited on April 26, 2012 at 2:44pmMar '11
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
The Great Adventure!
Casey
The Great Adventure!
Chris
· 3 minutes ago
You realize, don't you, that you're sounding terribly elitist. Personally I don't like to be forced to do anything. Drawing, leading, maybe, but forced? No thank you.
sounding terribly elitist. - I hope so. ;)
forced - By forced I mean one forcing himself. As in a shy kid signing up for the school play.
Mar '11
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Charlotte: Huh, Casey, I wouldn't have pegged you as being so anti-suburb...
I can certainly understand why someone would prefer notto live in the 'burbs, but it's easy to see why someone wouldwant that kind of lifestyle. There are tradeoffs no matter where you choose to live. · 5 minutes ago
Edited 3 minutes ago
I'm full of surprises :)
When one lives in the city he sacrifices the beauty and wonder of nature. When one lives in the country he sacrifices the conveniences and culture of the city. When one lives in the suburbs he sacrifices beauty, wonder, convenience, and culture for Applebees.
Dec '10
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Casey
I'm full of surprises :)
When one lives in the city he sacrifices the beauty and wonder of nature. When one lives in the country he sacrifices the conveniences and culture of the city. When one lives in the suburbs he sacrifices beauty, wonder, convenience, and culture for Applebees. · 22 minutes ago
My friend, you've bought into way too many stereotypes. You need to come try Italian at Abella's or Pastini Pastaria, Moroccan at Dar Es Salaam, seafood at Oswego Grille, and others. We do have a Red Robin and all of the normal fast food joints, but we've got plenty of non-chain options as well.
And in the city I would not be able to drag my bbq out into the cul de sac on a warm summer evening to join the rest of the folks in our neighborhood for a "cul de Q". As a matter of fact, I never experienced that type of community in the small town I grew up in either.
Mar '12
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
The suburban experience is, for the most part, an easy generic experience. Your house is like your neighbors house. Your yard is like your neighbors yard. Plano, TX is like Monroeville, PA is like Alpharetta, GA.
The suburban life shelters one from the world. The suburbs are a cocoon.
Believe me, as a parent I understand the appeal of the cocoon, but I just don't believe cocooning is in one's long-term interest. · 1 hour ago
An observation on cocoons by James Taranto in a "Best of the Web" comment titled "Good Fences make Bad People". It's the second item.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303404704577313750705052134.html
Although I've not lived in the former communal situation, I've lived in the second twice. The hallways all look the same, and the units are have the same limited configurations.
A "deluxe apartment, in the sky" is easy to imagine, but the scope of what "elitists" may define as a suburb is not. If they like it, it's a small town feel near the city, affordable for their station, and an easy commute. If they don't, it a mind numbing hell occupied by the sheep.
Aug '10
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Key question: Which city?
Another key question: Which neighbourhood?
I don't have kids, however...
From my 26-story apartment building, there are forest/riverbank areas a short bike ride away, wilderness areas a good bike ride away, and really wilderness areas a short car ride away.
There's also museums and other cultural attractions within walking distance, an elementary school across the street, and a high school that's a mere 5-minute bike ride away.
(Plus, I've got a swimming pool, workout room, and billiard room in the building, but I got lucky with my condo.)
I recognize that it's not the same as being able to set the kids loose at 9am and simply telling them to be home by dinner, but it ain't Detroit either.
Mar '12
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
This is why I live in the city with my family.
Aug '10
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Once again, the key question is "which suburb?"
Are we talking a brand-new, cookie-cutter subdivision with no sidewalks and no trees that sprawls off in all directions endlessly?
Or...
Are we talking about an older suburb with trees, sidewalks, a smaller total footprint and an established sense of community?
Aug '10
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
I wouldn't say I grew up in "the country", however, I grew up beyond the city/suburbs, on a street with five houses, on riverfront property near a big forest.
Mom could push me out the door and not think about me for the rest of the day. I could explore the woods on foot or bike. I could explore the river by canoe/motorboat. We waterskied. In winter there was cross-country skiing, ice-skating on the river, toboggan hills, etc.
However...
If I wanted to meet any other kids, it required a car ride.
If I wanted to play with school friends, it required a car ride.
In order to do any shopping, it required a car ride.
I was on the school bus for over an hour each day.
I spent a lot of time alone as a kid, and I did not develop very good social skills.
Long story short, every locale has trade-offs.
Today, I live in a downtown condo and walk to work. Also, I own a cabin on a lake that's only 50 minutes away, and my (still living) parents' house where I grew up is only 20 minutes away.
Mar '11
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
The Great Adventure!
Casey
When one lives in the city he sacrifices the beauty and wonder of nature. When one lives in the country he sacrifices the conveniences and culture of the city. When one lives in the suburbs he sacrifices beauty, wonder, convenience, and culture for Applebees.
My friend, you've bought into way too many stereotypes. You need to come try Italian at Abella's or Pastini Pastaria, Moroccan at Dar Es Salaam, seafood at Oswego Grille, and others. We do have a Red Robin and all of the normal fast food joints, but we've got plenty of non-chain options as well.
I don't mean to say that city is superior because the restaurants are superior. I only mean to say that all suburban communities have the same junk-on-the-wall restaurants. The suburbs are a standardized product in the same way that Pizza Hut pizza or Maxwell House coffee is a standardized product. Those products are fine but there are better versions of those products available.
But hey, De gustibus non est disputandum
Mar '11
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Chris
An observation on cocoons by James Taranto in a "Best of the Web" comment titled "Good Fences make Bad People". It's the second item.
Although I've not lived in the former communal situation, I've lived in the second twice. The hallways all look the same, and the units are have the same limited configurations.
I don't want to say that suburbs make bad people at all. That's just stupid. I only want to say that suburban life is predictable and that it creates an environment of self-reinforcing delusion. The suburbanite is simply shortchanging himself.
Edited on April 26, 2012 at 8:24pmAug '10
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Casey
I don't mean to say that city is superior because the restaurants are superior. I only mean to say that all suburban communities have the same junk-on-the-wall restaurants.
Urban communities ALSO have the same junk-on-the-wall restaurants. There are plenty of McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Denny's, Starbucks, TGI Fridays, etc, etc, etc, downtown.
Once again, it depends entire on which suburban community we're talking about. A suburban community with a higher average family income is going to have more fine dining options.
Similarly, the options and variety will vary greatly between different urban communities. Take Manhattan for example. Dining options vary greatly in community-oriented Harlem, or high-society 57th Street, or commercial/tourist-loving Times Square, or pseudo-bohemian Greenwich Village, or the urban wasteland of Stuyvesant Town—Peter Cooper Village.
Mar '11
Re: Would you raise your kid in the city?
Misthiocracy
Urban communities ALSO have the same junk-on-the-wall restaurants. There areplentyof McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Denny's, Starbucks, TGI Fridays, etc, etc, etc, downtown.
Once again, it depends entire onwhich suburban community we're talking about. A suburban community with a higher average family income is going to have more fine dining options.
Similarly, the options and variety will vary greatly between different urban communities. Take Manhattan for example. Dining options vary greatly in community-oriented Harlem, or high-society 57th Street, or commercial/tourist-loving Times Square, or pseudo-bohemian Greenwich Village, or the urban wasteland of Stuyvesant Town—Peter Cooper Village. · 9 minutes ago
Again though, I'm concerned only with the purposeful arrangement of said restaurants in each suburb. (or retail or housing...) So that the suburban Idaho experience is incredibly similar to suburban Indiana.
Whereas, as you mention, the city experience differs greatly block by block.