Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
There's a disconcerting story out of LA about media malpractice and general intolerance of differing viewpoints. Basically boxing great Manny Pacquiao was interviewed by a blogger about his views on same-sex marriage. He said he opposed it. The blogger added some quotes from Leviticus to the story for context, I guess. Various media outlets claimed Pacquiao was calling for the execution of gays (based on the Leviticus reference made by the blogger). And now Pacquiao is banned from the shopping mall the Grove.
The Los Angeles Times reported:
On Monday night, the Grove, owned by shopping mall magnate Rick Caruso, posted a statement on Twitter saying Pacquiao is not allowed on the premises.
The tweet reads: “Boxer Manny Pacquiao is not welcome at @TheGroveLA. @TheGroveLA is a gathering place for all Angelenos, not a place for intolerance.”
Oh, it sounds like the Grove might be just the place for intolerance, no?
I love that rhetorical question about whether redefining marriage to include same-sex couples would have an effect on anyone else. In fact, along with such a redefinition comes a massive change in social norms and values. And those changes are laser-focused on Christians and others who hold traditional views on the sanctity and importance of marriage as a union based on gender complementarity.
I was reading a brief passage about what Jesus had to say about marriage in Matthew 19:
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’[b] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?[c] 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
Don't you love how Jesus includes the importance of consummation, the evil of divorce and the two-gender definition of marriage in just this short passage?
But my point being, agreeing with Jesus gets you banned from polite society. The media are on a campaign to say that this understanding of marriage is bigoted and intolerable in society. You can't go to a shopping mall if you hold these views.
And people wonder if legalizing same-sex marriage would effect anyone other than gay couples? Really?
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Comments:
Feb '12
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
Oh my, Mollie! Be prepared for the invective that comes from quoting Jesus in context. My uncle, a pastor and scholar, is fond of saying that Jesus was a "backwards preacher," meaning he would say things that would get him tossed out of churches. "You do not believe because you are not my sheep," for example.
Anyway, if you really want to get banned from places of polite society, quote Paul from Romans 1 and see where that gets you!
Jul '11
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
You can also not spend money at places that hold the Grove's views. Manny, probably the best lb for lb fighter ( Mayweather is ducking him), was known as an Obama supporter too. I am curious how PacMan will feel now that the left has turned on him.
Jun '10
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
Does Caruso have any reason to actually believe that Pacquiao wants to go to the Grove?
I love liberals: they love the attention of the grand, meaningless gesture.
Perhaps the 52 percent of Californians who voted for Proposition 8 should quit going there as well.
Edited on May 17, 2012 at 5:09pmSep '10
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
Oh, Mollie, you edgy, vindictive, knuckle dragging Judeomysogynist, don't you know that Iesu is a socially constructed pomo Hegelian myth, cleverly constructed by patriarchal, authoritarian elites to keep people from learning the Gnostic truth?
Give peace a chance.
Sep '10
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
Apparently 7,001,084 California voters, including me, are not welcome either. Not one of Caruso's better business decisions.
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
tabula rasa: Does Caruso have any reason to actually believe that Pacquiao wants to go to the Grove?
I love liberals: they love the attention of the grand, meaningless gesture.
Perhaps the 52 percent of Californians who voted for Proposition 8 should quit going there as well. · 5 minutes ago
Edited 4 minutes ago
He was supposed to be interviewed by Extra! the next day. That's why he was going to be there (in addition to training right near there).
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
Pseudodionysius: Oh, Mollie, you edgy, vindictive, knuckle dragging Judeomysogynist, don't you know that Iesu is a socially constructed pomo Hegelian myth, cleverly constructed by patriarchal, authoritarian elites to keep people from learning the Gnostic truth?
Give peace a chance. · 4 minutes ago
I always forget that! Thanks for the reminder. I'll go back to my quarantined safety house now.
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
I have some mixed feelings here.
On the one hand, freedom of association is a part of the first amendment that sometimes rides the back of the constitutional law bus. It has its moments - like the Boy Scout v gays and Hibernians v gays cases. I find those cases rightly decided. People should be free to associate with like-minded folks.
In that regard, why not Rick Caruso? As DocJay points out, other people who are like-minded with each other can refuse to shop there. May the best philosophy win.
However, freedom of association always gets punched-out by the commerce clause. The 1964 Civil Rights Acts lets black folks eat at any privately owned lunch counter, and no one laments the fall of the 1st Amendment (save perhaps Rand Paul - and look what happened when he offered only to talk about the subject). No one laments it because we all agree on the result.
I do think Caruso is playing with fire. He is undoubtedly subject to the commerce clause. He is banning a man for his religious belief.
Here's to hoping Manny finds my phone number - I'll represent him.
Edited on May 17, 2012 at 5:25pmSep '10
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
Pseudodionysius: Oh, Mollie, you edgy, vindictive, knuckle dragging Judeomysogynist, don't you know that Iesu is a socially constructed pomo Hegelian myth, cleverly constructed by patriarchal, authoritarian elites to keep people from learning the Gnostic truth?
Give peace a chance. · 4 minutes ago
I always forget that! Thanks for the reminder. I'll go back to my quarantined safety house now. · 1 minute ago
Stay tuned for my forthcoming book Porn as Spiritual Direction: What Victorian Prudes Never Told You.
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
If those who advocate redefining marriage law are right -- that the only opposition to doing so is based in racist-like bigotry -- shouldn't we ban those people from polite society?
Let them hide out in their little Jesus cults but we must make sure they know their views are intolerable around children, you know?
Mar '11
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
They don't need to ban him. He's already outside the gate (Heb 13). They would crucify him though.
Mar '11
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
I checked the reference. it says "outside the camp". I can't edit for some reason. I take the same meaning from it though.
Sep '10
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.: If those who advocate redefining marriage law are right -- that the only opposition to doing so is based in racist-like bigotry -- shouldn't we ban those people from polite society?
Let them hide out in their little Jesus cults but we must make sure they know their views are intolerable around children, you know? · 1 minute ago
And get rid of their insurance while you're at it. D'oh.
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.: If those who advocate redefining marriage law are right -- that the only opposition to doing so is based in racist-like bigotry -- shouldn't we ban those people from polite society?
Let them hide out in their little Jesus cults but we must make sure they know their views are intolerable around children, you know? · 1 minute ago
Perhaps some have such faith in their religion that they fear no contest with other ideas. Banning the other ideas through the force of law suggests little faith in one's convictions and evangelical ability.
Edited on May 17, 2012 at 5:39pmSep '10
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.: If those who advocate redefining marriage law are right -- that the only opposition to doing so is based in racist-like bigotry -- shouldn't we ban those people from polite society?
Let them hide out in their little Jesus cults but we must make sure they know their views are intolerable around children, you know? · 3 minutes ago
Nero used to use them as sparklers, but I think the current group would have trouble with the greenhouse gas emissions from flammable Christians worsening the smog in Los Angeles.
Aug '10
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
Pseudodionysius
Stay tuned for my forthcoming book Porn as Spiritual Direction: What Victorian Prudes Never Told You.
Man, I know a lot of people who would be, like, so into that book, Pseud. Including family members...
They would think it was "edgy" and "ironic" (but oddly enough, not literally ironic).
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
Tommy De Seno
Perhaps some have such faith in their religion that they fear no contest with other ideas. Banning the other ideas through the force of law suggests little faith in one's convictions and evangelical ability.
I completely agree, although I don't know precisely what you're getting at.
What's more, I actually support the right of any business owner to ban anyone from his business for any reason. I don't support doing it, but I support the right of people to do it. Even if their reasons are awful or bigoted -- against Bible-believing Christians or otherwise.
I just find it fascinating how even as popular votes to uphold the traditional definition of marriage as a heterosexual union keep passing, the viewpoint is becoming unacceptable for even tolerance among cultural elites.
Fascinating. Slightly scary. But I'm willing to deal with it. It just makes me sad for our society and what my children and their children will face if they follow what Jesus says about marriage.
At the beginning of this whole cultural shift, people at least suggested you'd be allowed to hold your religious views at the mall or public school.
May '10
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
This is why I view the break up of the "United" States as inevitable. The leftists have reached a point where they have decided that they cannot live with a large portion of their fellow citizens.
They do not want to associate with us, they do not want to patronize our businesses and they do want us to patronize theirs. They want to silence all of our media and put us into a closet.
This will not end prettily.
Jul '10
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
I doubt Jesus would be permitted today to speak on all but a handful of college campuses in the South.
Aug '10
Re: Would Jesus Be Banned From The Grove?
At first, I thought you were talking about this Grove. Much holier ground.
Why would Jesus want to go to the Grove Mall? I think he said much about serving mammon, etc.