With Friends Like These...
Tolstoy - the Big Russian Novel Guy - has this theory in the boring chapters of War and Peace about how Great Men don't really matter. History just sort of throws a Napoleon up there when it needs him, and if it weren't Nappy, it'd be someone else doing the same thing. (Personally, I always felt this was just Tolstoyan sour grapes because if it hadn't been for the snow, Napoleon would've so kicked Russian butt... but I digress.) I don't agree with this theory, but it does sometimes seem to me that change comes to society in spite of, not because of, the people who think they're bringing it.
I noticed this first with the feminists. Came a time, for various reasons, when society felt women should expand their roles and powers. And women did. While most thinking guys were cool with this, the presence of an entire movement's worth of loud-mouthed shrikes cursing all things male made the whole process deeply unpleasant and even, I would guess, increased resistance and slowed things down.
Now it's the same with gays. I strongly believe it's time and past time gay folks were fully accepted by both society and religion. (As I remarked somewhere, if I get to heaven and Noel Coward's not there, the afterlife is going to seem like an eternity.) But man oh man, the so-called gay activists and their supporters make it very, very tough. Check this out from NewsBusters. It's got a lot of foul ideas in it though the foul words are ****ed out.
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Jun '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid." - Nietzsche
"It's not so much that I don't want to be wrong, I just can't stand the idea of them being right."
Unfortunately, of fortunately as the case may be, idiots who claim to be on "my" side of an issue are sometimes equally insipid, especially in the face of the other's "insipidity" (which is like stupidity, except uglier).
It just sucks. http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=80
The inherently unlikable no-man's land of "I see the value on both sides of an issue" is then the only rational place to stand, even though people on both sides throw eggs at you.
Ahhhhh...Ain't this fun? Let's please pass more legislation to bring politics into every part of our lives, shall we!
May '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
Andrew, the problem with these societal "wars" that we have is that the victors never know when to claim victory and make peace. Moral clarity reduced to professional grievance mongering has done harm than anything else.
But still, as a man with both a wife and a daughter, why feminists want to reduce these ladies in my life down to my level, I have no idea.
Re: With Friends Like These...
"I strongly believe it's time and past time gay folks were fully accepted by both society and religion."
Andrew I'm going to give you the thumbs up on society, but thumbs down on religion (not that I wouldn't be OK with all religions for accepting gays - I would - I just don't want to impose myself on them).
America is intended to be inclusive with equal rights based upon nothing more than the person being created (as so stated in the Declaration of Independence).
Religions are more exclusive. Freedom of Assocation is part of the 1st Amendment - to associate with whom you agree and disassociate from whom you don't agree with.
Aug '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
Andrew,
Now promise us you're not just saying this because you're trying to annoy some imam somewhere. They put a fatwuan on you, just smoke it and boogie outta there.
P.S.
What is the best book on American History to give my 13 yr old, who is figuring out that the books at school are 100% bs ? She'll listen to you, as she is anxiously awaiting your next book.
May '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
There are times, typically concerning one of the many ballot propositions in California, when the side I favor is using really crummy scare tactics, misleading "facts" or falsehoods, or are just nasty people. It's difficult to wish a victory to them because it will become gospel amongst the campaign professionals that such lousy behavior works.
I hate to hand a big win to creeps, but sometimes they are in the right.
May '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
No one should get a pass on this, I don't care who they are. The man is rude.
Aug '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
Andrew, I am an avid fan of your technique and humor in PJTV's "Klavan on the Culture." I frequently agree with you regarding geopolitics, national security and Constitutionalism. I have always suspected, now I know, that you and I have diametrically opposing ideas on moral theology (am I presumptuous to even call your morality a theology--forgive me if it is) and anthropology. I happen to think I am a thinking guy, but please prove me wrong (as suggested by association in your quote above). In short, I believe both feminism and the so-called fiction of "gayness" are radical threats to our cultural well-being--among other things critically important to some and meaningless to others. But since the point of your thread is that both feminists and "gays" have just not known when to quit, I should let you and others develop discussion around your main thread. I will leave you all with this thought--that may in fact intersect your thread: the inability of feminists and "gays" to accept victory is a diagnostic symptom of the fact that both of these phenomena are profound social pathologies.
Aug '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
Wow, I am glad that I believe in Divine Providence. I was a bit concerned that I might be leaving a threadocidal, "heavy" comment above. I flipped over to Mollie Hemingway's post, "Extremist Views." What do I discover there but a Commentor who identifies himself as a "wackjob, conservative homosexual" urging me to run for office and that I'd have his vote. Is God amazing or what? One thing is for sure, we cannot take ourselves too seriously. I could not resist replying and inviting him to join me on the same ticket. Can you imagine what that would do to the Left? Their heads would explode. So what do I mean by my "social pathology" comment above? (This is why Ricochet is so fantastic--thanks Andrew.) My guess is that homosexual attractions, especially in the young, result from excessive, amorphous sexual drive misdirected (think of your dinner host's pet dog and your embarrassed knee as you sit on their sofa) in combination with poor social structures allowing for normal boy-girl attraction. These are developmental quirks if adequately recognized. A quick trip to the Confessional box gets rid of the whole thing. Oops, more... [1/2]
Aug '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
As a society, we make too much of rooting around in people's pasts as if there was something meaningful in tabloid probes. The Left is particularly good at "smearing" folks with the very things they advocate! Imagine if the Right tried to smear Bill Mar by bringing up his being seen at a religious service in his youth. I do hope this election year--where masturbation is as big an issue, apparently, as nuclear terroism--is a time when conservatives can quit worrying so much about what the Left is going to "out" about them. The real solution is to look the press in the eye and say..."Hah!" Then let the press stare at each other and try to figure out what to do next. Oops, this is really [2/3].
Aug '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
The real issue of homosexuality (and since O'Donnell brought it up: masturbation) is that they are symptomatic of a society and culture where the sexual energies of youth are not being afforded their proper outlets. Young men and women are supposed to find in each other, in those foolish states of sexual insanity, the reason to make completely open-ended commitments that ultimately result in cleaning up lots of baby vomit and diapers at 3 a.m. and all the rest until the parent's biology finally wises up around middle age and delights in watching their children make the same crazy leaps into the unknown. So, if nothing else, homosexual activity and masturbation are kind of "goofy" sins (unlike abandoning a faithful wife and kids for a hottie secretary--that's a nasty sin). My archaic, loveable, wise Church with guys who wear funny hats recognizes (or should) that the former sins point to our collective need to fix our social structures (the "social pathology" thing a couple comments back) to make blissful boy-girl, romping, sizzling-fun sex (leading to that dirty diaper thing and the depths of discovered love in happiness and pain) all too easy.
Edited on Sep 20, 2010 at 5:58pmJun '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
"Pithy prose packs punch," says Mr. Paules to his students. David, good buddy, may I gently encourage you to avoid a full thesis no matter how passionately you feel about a topic? The decision by Ricochet management to limit the word count has proved both wise and very functional. Not that I don't occasionally break the protocol myself, but it's best if we all learned to live with it.
Jun '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
Andrew uses the word "nappy" and I get right-side advertisements aimed at African-Americans for hair straighteners. Who says computers don't have a sense of humor?
Edited on Sep 20, 2010 at 6:48pmAug '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
~ Paules. Thanks for the suggestion. Feel free to skip over them if they bore. I believe you can even hide comments, if I am not mistaken, above.
Jul '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
As usual, Thomas Sowell (and also Robert Bork) describe it well: the progressive impulse is an itch to remove constraints on personal behavior - but when one is removed there appears another that demands removal. And so on, and so on.
There is no "end state" to Gay rights, or Feminism or even (sadly) the Civil Rights movements. How will we know when any of these is complete? It is all about movement, and precious little about rights.
If your goal is to move things and to tear things down, then the louder and more obnoxious the better.
Jul '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
Crickey, the only reason a gay man would want to remain in the closet these days is other gay people! Most of the people you meet don't want to have sex with you, unless you are Lady Gaga, so it is the unpleasent attention from others you'd want to avoid. The average homophobe is only going to pray for you so you can man up like Christopher Hitches and ignore them. Meanwhile other gay people would be insisting you conform to their stereotypes of gay, and they just can't agree among themselves as to what those stereotypes should be, so you would be constantly damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Why can't a like Mr. Mehlman just enjoy a game of golf, or help reelect the anti-gay marriage saintly man who saved much of Africa from Aids?
May '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
Argh! Mr. Klavan, I'm ashamed to say that I respectfully disagree. Those were Tolstoy's better chapters! God knows the book is amazing, but I was far more affected by his historical analysis than the whole romance-of-the-Russian-aristocracy business. Then again, I was more moved by the scything-alongside-the-peasants portions of Anna Karenina than the (un)love story too. I guess it's more of a me thing than a Tolstoy thing...
Aug '10
Re: With Friends Like These...
Why ashamed?