Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
There’s been a lot of talk lately about the rising cost of education. Public college tuition keeps rising 2-3% faster than inflation, and many young people view education as a sort of Intellectual Medicare that should be available to all who want it, regardless of cost. At the same time, self made men like Mark Steyn are a rarity. Is education getting out of reach?
Not at all. The problem is separating “education” from formal education or credentialism. If all you want is information and educational resources, education has never been cheaper or more accessible. Type “partial differential equations” into YouTube and see what you come up with; you’ll have access to hundreds of videos from professors and laymen, many who compete for viewers with the perfect explanation and illustration of separation of variables. MIT was one of the first schools to put much of its course resources online with its OpenCourseWare, and Stanford’s engineering department is doing the same (Stanford Comp. Sci. prof. Mehran Sahami is better than any professor I had in college, and his Programming Methodology videos have 100,000 + views). I actually prefer online classes to live classes, since I can slow the video if I get lost or need time to think about something.
It isn’t limited to YouTube videos and Wikipedia. You can go on Amazon and eBay and find old editions of textbooks for less than $10. I was only homeschooled for a year or so, but from talking with the parents of homeschooled kids, resources keep getting better and better every year. The bottom line is: if you have access to a computer and internet connection, and all you want is educational resources, things have never been better.
There still is something to credentialism. Many jobs require some sort of college degree, and “I read a textbook in my free time” probably won’t get you far with the check box approach of human resources departments. I think a partial solution, and one discussed a bit in Charles Murray’s Real Education, is qualification tests (the link takes you to the relevant section on Google books). Currently four states allow you to take the bar exam by taking an apprentice position, rather than going to law school, though it’s a rarity; the great Calvin Coolidge did this. And we do it for accountants with the CPA exam and for engineering contractors and consultants with the FE and PE exams.
There are problems with qualification exams. You can teach to the test, and often skills just can’t be tested, though I would also then question whether they could be taught in a classroom. As the Institute for Justice has shown many times, regulatory agencies can deprive people of their livelihood through meaningless certification programs, and I would hate to see a trend develop encouraging more of these. Nevertheless, I think if you sold employers on comprehensive tests that could test a minimal level of knowledge in lieu of a college degree, you could bring about reform. The biggest hurdle would be selling this to employers, and they may need to be the ones initiating the effort.
As to the people that can’t teach themselves: I don’t know. I’m a firm believer that anyone who loves knowledge, can stay disciplined, and knows where to look for information, will be fine in this age. We still view education as having other people teach you, which is a problem; at the college level you teach yourself, and a teacher is just another resource, along with textbooks and tutorials.
Overall, the combination of qualification tests and cheap information could provide a pretty solid alternative for those learners that have the ability and motivation to learn on their own. So here are my questions to Ricocheteers:
- Are free educational resources a path to deflating or even popping the undergraduate education bubble?
- Could qualification exams be the answer to phasing this out?
- Do qualification exams run the risk of making us a certification society?
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Aug '10
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
Excellent post. I've been thinking a lot about what a '21st century' education system should look like, and I'm pretty sure it shouldn't look like a 20th century education.
One of the biggest advantages of the internet is disintermediation - the removal of intermediate organizations that stand between producers and consumers. Record companies, for example. In the past, a musician couldn't get his music to large masses of listeners without a record company to produce and distribute the records, advertise them, and get songs on the radio.
Today, the internet allows a direct connection between musicians and audiences. Recommendation systems and viral distribution create 'hits' without marketing people needed in the mix. As a result, choice is increasing, the influence of 'gatekeepers' is waning, and ultimately we'll get rid of the people in the middle who skimmed off profits and controlled access to the market.
Getting back to education, it's been said that a 'school' consists of a desk with a teacher on one side of it and a student on the other. Everything else is optional. Colleges are classic intermediaries standing between students and teachers. We don't need them any more.
Nov '10
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
I couldn't agree more. I've been thinking the same things.
Nov '10
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
QuickerBrownFox:
. . .
MIT was one of the first schools to put much of its course resources online with its OpenCourseWare, and Stanford’s engineering department is doing the same (Stanford Comp. Sci. prof. Mehran Sahami is better than any professor I had in college, and his Programming Methodology videos have 100,000 + views). I actually prefer online classes to live classes, since I can slow the video if I get lost or need time to think about something.
. . .
Overall, the combination of qualification tests and cheap information could provide a pretty solid alternative for those learners that have the ability and motivation to learn on their own.
Thanks for the links. As a certified old fogy, I'm personally adding to my own educational credentials right now the old-fashioned way, by going back for another degree. But I could certainly use some extra help, and I bet I can find it at one of your sites.
As for the whole question of credentialing exams, we touched on it a bit in the Comments on the Young Guns podcast.
Oct '11
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
Dan Hanson:
One of the biggest advantages of the internet is disintermediation - the removal of intermediate organizations that stand between producers and consumers. Record companies, for example. In the past, a musician couldn't get his music to large masses of listeners without a record company to produce and distribute the records, advertise them, and get songs on the radio.
That's a great example. For all we (rightly) hear about over-regulation, it's still a great time to be a consumer or producer in this country, largely due to what you're talking about. I remember a Flaming Lips interview from Bonnaroo where they essentially said that musicians will never again be mega-rich, but they'll never have a problem making their music available to millions of people. My friend runs a handmade craft and DIY website; she gets orders from around the country. It's a world-wide farmer's market.
That's why it's so depressing when you hear stories like this: University of California Teacher's Union blocking online classes in order to save jobs.
Edited on October 31, 2011 at 3:16amMar '11
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
Lucy Pevensie
QuickerBrownFox:
. . .
MIT was one of the first schools to put much of its course resources online with its OpenCourseWare, and Stanford’s engineering department is doing the same
Overall, the combination of qualification tests and cheap information could provide a pretty solid alternative for those learners that have the ability and motivation to learn on their own.
Thanks for the links. As a certified old fogy,
Lucy, Sorry, I have had the pleasure of your company @ the DC soirée, you have not entered into the reaches of fogydom yet....
As for credentials, having been in the presence (mentoring) of several MIT graduates over the years working in our National Space Program, I found I was far most impressed by some Hokies, Boilermakers, Ramblin' Wrecks, and a Nitty Lion. Can not say anything either way for some of the west coast engineering school engineers, only met a few @ JPL.
I do however like the idea that these schools are putting their courses on line, they provide a good refresher, and my college age sons are testing my memories from 30+ years ago with their questions.....
Edited on October 31, 2011 at 3:11amOct '11
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
Lucy Pevensie
Thanks for the links. As a certified old fogy, I'm personally adding to my own educational credentials right now the old-fashioned way, by going back for another degree. But I could certainly use some extra help, and I bet I can find it at one of your sites.
There's much more where that came from. I'm not sure what you're studying, but UC Berkeley actually has the largest collection of courses so far, and Carnegie Mellon has its Open Learning Initiative, where you can "join" a class and even arrange for it to count as credit with some schools. iTunesU has a bunch of topic-specific lectures as well, which are fun to listen to if you're on the road or want to spark a discussion with someone you don't know well (also great for cross country skiing). That universities are making these available gives me hope.
Apr '11
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
But would employers be allowed to use certification tests? After all, one reason for the over-use of colleges is that employers are not allowed to screen with IQ and knowledge tests because of "disparate impact". Schools can screen with IQ tests, so employers let the schools do the screening.
One more thing liberals don't have to apologize for.
Edited on October 31, 2011 at 7:51amNov '10
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
QuickerBrownFox
Lucy Pevensie
Thanks for the links. As a certified old fogy, I'm personally adding to my own educational credentials right now the old-fashioned way, by going back for another degree. But I could certainly use some extra help, and I bet I can find it at one of your sites.
There's much more where that came from. I'm not sure what you're studying, but UC Berkeley actually has the largest collection of courses so far, and Carnegie Mellon has its Open Learning Initiative, where you can "join" a class and even arrange for it to count as credit with some schools. iTunesU has a bunch of topic-specific lectures as well, which are fun to listen to if you're on the road or want to spark a discussion with someone you don't know well (also great for cross country skiing). That universities are making these available gives me hope. ·
I'm struggling with biostatistics right now. I'm guessing that there are lots of good resources on your lists. Thanks.
May '11
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
"And we do it for accountants with the CPA exam and for engineering contractors and consultants with the FE and PE exams"
I've been a licensed land surveyor since 1994. At that time the National Council of Engineering Examiners allowed one without a Bachelors (such as myself) to sit for the professional boards based on years of verified relevant experience. No more. That bachelors is now required.
I would not be willing to go through the effort & expense of obtaining a degree from one of the few schools that offer such a program when the payoff is a $10 an hour entry level job that I'd need to work at for four more years before I would be allowed to sit for the professional exam.
The lobbyists for the higher ed community have successfully demanded their pound of flesh.
Oct '11
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
yoyodynette:
I've been a licensed land surveyor since 1994. At that time the National Council of Engineering Examiners allowed one without a Bachelors (such as myself) to sit for the professional boards based on years of verified relevant experience. No more. That bachelors is now required.
It'd be one thing if the stuff you learned through four years was regularly used. But outside some engineering fundamentals, I've used maybe one or two classes. There's no reason that a qualification test + some practical experience (labs were actually helpful) wouldn't have vetted the required knowledge for the job, at least to the level of a college grad.
When I worked at DoD, you could obtain my position either with an engineering degree or working in certain positions on Naval ships and boats for four years, with no college needed. The latter were, hands down, more successful at the job.
Requirements like you talked about not only reduce the quality of the labor market, but the fluidity as well. The default for changing careers is going back to school, rather than acquiring new skills.
Oct '11
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
Grendel: But would employers be allowed to use certification tests? After all, one reason for the over-use of colleges is that employers are not allowed to screen with IQ and knowledge tests because of "disparate impact". Schools can screen with IQ tests, so employers let the schools do the screening.
One more thing liberals don't have to apologize for. · Oct 30 at 11:50pm
Edited on Oct 30 at 11:51 pm
Employers can technically use tests, but they're walking on eggshells if they do, as it's likely to lead to litigation. The test has to be related to the application, as spelled out in Griggs v. Duke Power. So a test for engineering is fine for engineering positions, but not for real estate. the "discrimination" isn't facial, so they look to impact results. While employers are allowed to use professionally developed IQ tests, they're playing with fire. The employer has to show that the test is necessary to performing the job, and that's hard to do with a general aptitude test.
While it's political death to talk about scaling back anti-discrimination law, there are many good reasons to do so.
Aug '10
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
I love MIT's OpenCourseWare. I have multiple math and physics courses on my computer because I'm either interested in the topics or I'm hoping to refresh myself on the topics. It would be nice if there was a way for employers to take into account extracurricular learning. Then when I go into interviews I can say "Pay no attention to that bad grade I received in college, I've been studying the subject recently and I know it now."
Edited on October 31, 2011 at 9:01pmOct '11
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
It'd be nice if college went back to being a place for serious students intent on specialised study. Turning college into a playground for 20 somethings to find themselves has hurt the institutions and the students.
Formal study is very important tool that probably doesn't need to be used to hone all people for every career and industry. Many degrees cost much more than the median income their careers accommodate... but I'm an uneducated slob so what do I know.
Jul '10
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
It's one of the most remarkable things that despite unprecedented access to information for free or dirt cheap, formal education has never been more expensive. I guess it would have made sense to pay a lot for schooling if you lived in some god forsaken wasteland with no communication capabilities, but it is simply bizarre with the advent of the internet and readily available, cheap books.
Feb '11
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
The original Griggs v Duke Power decision didn't only object to the use of IQ tests for the jobs at issue; it also objected to the company's requirement for high school diplomas. Somehow, either that part of the decision has been watered down by subsequent cases, or employers--especially their HR departments--have inaccurately locked on to one category of risks while typically ignoring another.
I've hired a lot of people, both directly and through subordinate managers, and personally I've never felt the slightest desire to give anyone an IQ test.
Dec '10
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
Great post. I think those pushing-back most effectively against this growing trend of intermediation are the strong entrepreneurial segments in individual industries. In my experience, they have been the ones who are far more interested in capabilities than credentials.
If the economy ever kicks back up, I hope this trend will to. I think this is doubly true for technical fields and not just computer science. I work in industrial material handling, and there are lots of good paying positions, looking for skills that taught in most engineering colleges.
On an aside, I think the economy is in dire need of apprentiship programs in more trades than they are currently offered. While classroom theory is nice, I think much of it is forgotten once you're in a particular position (or a semester after the class), and with the cost of education, most student would be far better off being paid menial wage, than paying a kings ransom while learning their skills.
May '10
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
Eventually, my lips to God's ear, market forces will force solutions such as the one QuickerBrownFox has sketched out.
Eventually, some combination of online education and practicum/apprenticeship/residency/internship will replace 4-to-5-to6 years of 12 oz curls and hookups.
If something can't continue, it won't, and the higher-education credentialization scam is one such something.
Dec '10
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
Nick Stuart: Eventually, my lips to God's ear, market forces will force solutions such as the one QuickerBrownFox has sketched out.
Eventually, some combination of online education and practicum/apprenticeship/residency/internship will replace 4-to-5-to6 years of 12 oz curls and hookups.
If something can't continue, it won't, and the higher-education credentialization scam is one such something. · Oct 31 at 4:59pm
I completely agree. Would you be willing to venture a guess at whether the Higher Ed. bubble will burst before we are willing to change course?
Dec '10
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
That's why it's so depressing when you hear stories like this: University of California Teacher's Union blocking online classes in order to save jobs. · Oct 30 at 6:55pm
Edited on Oct 30 at 07:16 pm
This is a very important and difficult question. Universities are the ultimate "vested interest". Their behaviour resembles a vast conspiracy more often then anyone would like to admit. When they are allowed to participate in ideological conspiracy (left wing pc correctness) they become an entrenched corrupt core dragging society down rather then elevating it. When the electorate becomes conscious enough to realize that they and the country are being destroyed we may see some change. Opening up Academia to the free market of ideas would be an incredible game changer. It will require vigorous political action. Defeat Obama, take back the Senate, nominate strong young conservative Supreme Court Justices. That's the kind political climate change that would really break Academia free.
Apr '11
Re: Will the Self-Educated (Wo)Man Rise Again?
My grandfather formally had only a high school education, but he was self-educated to the college level. His home was filled with books on every subject. When he cleaned out a room to convert it into a bedroom, I got his copy of Calculus For The Practical Man.
I'd like to think I'm following in his footsteps a bit. I'm studying Japanese on my own, just for fun.