Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
I am a retired American who lives in Japan. I am a conservative who usually votes Republican because their candidates are typically more conservative than their opponents. I think the Tea Party was a very positive addition to American politics primarily because it was a return to citizen involvement in politics that de Tocqueville felt was one of the primary reasons for American Exceptionalism. They were a tremendous assist in helping Republicans capture the House in 2010 and brought spending and our fiscal situation to the forefront of the political debate.
But as I watched the votes and debate on extending the debt limit in the House of Representatives last week, I began to wonder if conservatives had split into two groups and the Tea Party had overreached. Sean Hannity’s interview of Ann Coulter and the threat to “primary” Allen West were a perfect example of this. I personally sided with Paul Ryan and Thomas Sowell instead of Hannity and Mark Levin in this debate. But I wondered; while we shared a common objective—a fiscally responsible government, and a smaller government—did conservatives simply disagree on how to go about it and the speed to achieve it? Was our disagreement not on the objective, but the means and quickness by which we attain it? Or was it something more fundamental? Do we realistically think we can reduce expenditures and entitlements in the 2012 Fiscal Year with just a Republican House, or do we need a conservative Republican House, Senate and a conservative Republican president in order to begin reducing the welfare state? Our strategy should be based on the answer to that question. If this is not resolved long before the 2012 election, we will not achieve our mutual objective. Did last week’s debate convince the independent voters that we must have in order to win control and effect change that conservatives are ready to govern and will govern effectively? Or will we be relegated by President Obama and his minions in the opinion of the public to the ranks of “weirdoes” and “extremists” and therefore ignored and marginalized from this important debate?
Conservatives have always relied on tradition and have used logic to argue policies and strategy enthusiastically among themselves as long as I can remember. Progressives seem to have raised their arguments to the level of “beliefs” and are therefore impervious to logical argument. Conservatives have usually had their disagreements in a non-public forum. By moving them into a public forum have we helped the opposition or is this simply the reality of today’s political environment we must take into account?
Are we in disagreement as to the goal, or are we in disagreement as to the means and the speed of change? Which is it? I am personally convinced that if we don’t get this fiscal situation under control, the American Dream I grew up with will be extinguished, and our country, our children and grandchildren and the world will be impoverished as a result. And given our system of government how can we come together for the 2012 election ? If we don’t gain control of Congress and the presidency in 2012, we can’t begin to dismantle the Leviathan. How should we effect the change we want and the speed at which it occurs in a unified way? What say you?
Unfortunately, given the time difference, I will be sleeping while most of you are commenting, but I will weigh in once I wakeup and log on.
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Oct '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
The short answer is, no. The Tea Party represents one aspect of the American Dream: freedom of speech and assembly.
The political facts are that there is an entrenched, broad based, interest in a progressive statist paradigm of governance which is antithetical to historic American beliefs and traditions. Those who believe in and benefit from this statist system currently hold the balance of power in the form of the Senate and the Executive branches of the Federal Government. Those of us, as romantically idealistic as we may be, who cherish the idea of a true federal republic, are trying like hell to salvage that vision for future generations. It is a cause worth fighting and dying for. This is what the battle is about.
May '11
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Are we going to have to hit rock bottom before we change our spending habits? Does medicare have to engulf our economy before we reform it? Republicans had control of the legislature and presidency from 2001-2006. All they did is ramp up spending and hand out more entitlements. In 2013 if Republicans take control again we'll probably in our frustration harken to the classic refrain from the Who. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss". I fear we're going to have to reach crisis level before our fellow citizens wake up and do something about spending and entitlement reform. Too many people are banking on Republican control to change everything. Realsitically can we change our entrenched welfare state on a dime? The political process is slow and deliberate. We may need more patience and faith that our ideas will win out in the end. Hopefully before everything implodes on us.
Oct '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
This is why the Tea Party is a part of the American Dream: it is neither Republican or Democrat; it is a popular radical republican movement, akin to the impulse of the founders to restore their "rights as Englishmen".
Edited on Jul 30, 2011 at 8:26amSep '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
I've long held that the left's spending would, in the end, be curtailed only when the bond vigilantes came after the US. And so the Moody's and S&P warnings in the last month are a harbinger. And the left's response has been entirely predictable: class warfare and cut defense.
In truth, the Tea Party is attempting to act as the adult in the room, but in the end is probably irrelevant to the outcome.
And, off topic, but have you seen Barmey Frank on TV recommending that we ignore the ratings agencies? There's no word for the guy.
Dec '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Here's a scary question...are the states ready, or even capable, of taking up their rightful responsibilities when (if) the national government is pared back to its constitutional roll? They've been out of practice for a long time.
May '11
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Patrick in Albuquerque: I've long held that the left's spending would, in the end, be curtailed only when the bond vigilantes came after the US. And so the Moody's and S&P warnings in the last month are a harbinger. And the left's response has been entirely predictable: class warfare and cut defense.
In truth, the Tea Party is attempting to act as the adult in the room, but in the end is probably irrelevant to the outcome.
And, off topic, but have you seen Barmey Frank on TV recommending that we ignore the ratings agencies? There's no word for the guy. · Jul 30 at 8:34am
Plenty of words for Barney Frank. Problem is most of them are code of conduct violations on this site.
Oct '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Good question. My answer is both no and yes. Are they ready now? No but getting there. Look at the number of conservative (not necessarily Republican) Governors who were elected over the past two cycles. Look at New Jersey and Wisconsin. Will they be capable? The answer has to be yes. This "Federal" government is corrupt and bancrupt to boot. Whether it is default, inflation, or bond vigilantes, the Federal system is about to crash; the States will have to be capable.
May '11
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Great question. Amazing how even the most conservative governors will lobby or take federal money if it is offered to them.
Edited on Jul 30, 2011 at 8:57amApr '11
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Cui bono?
Dems are loving this.
On the other hand, it wasn't so long ago that we were wandering in the wilderness for forty years something something. And not so long ago all the conservative pundits were saying there was no way we could take back the Senate.
The fight for the soul of the GOP is the fight for saving what is left of the American Dream. Let's just make sure, in our necessary squabbling, that we don't fatally handicap ourselves in the more important fight: to hold the House, take the Senate, and throw the Marxist out of the White House.
Jun '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Yes, one of the most important questions. Thanks for this insightful question, Prawn.
Will the states save us? Very interesting notion. One of the unique aspects of America is the amount of power that was left in the hands of the states. Originally, the country could not have formed if it was not arranged that way.
The scenario that goes through my mind is that the states do exactly that -- they save us. And what a wonderful change that would portend. It would be huge readjustment in exactly the right direction. The right direction because this is really the area where most of the troubles we are in started. It started with FDR trying to use the federal government to solve state problems. And of course, he made it worse. This chicken has come home to roost.
Jun '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Al: Regarding your title's question, here's what I said earlier:
We are set up for a huge readjustment. What's interesting to me is that Obama's side really wants a major change to happen in this country. And we on this side want one too -- but we are pushing in opposite directions. Our system of government is supposed to be able to respond to these type of challenges -- maybe a little later than we would like but finally make a shift.
This time the tectonic plates are stuck a little more than usual (quite a bit more) and please let's all admit: pent up forces that bring about earthquakes are very unpredictable.
I just don't know.
Oct '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
We have forgotten that the foundation of federalism is a covenant between the States mediated by a "general government". The lesson of the Civil War is that this covenant cannot be disestablished without the consent of all of the parties. Likewise it will not continue without the consent of all of the parties. The States and their subordinate units, the counties, are the key to the future of federalism. If the people wake up to fact that they have the power to fundamentally change "government" at the State and local level and thereby the character of the "general government" federalism has a chance to re-emerge.
Apr '11
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Meanwhile:
"Washington Is Annoyed at Wall Street's Failure to Panic."
Jun '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
GB: Exactly so.
The other advantage to federalism and stopping the slide of state power is that this system can prevent an anti-American president from doing too much damage. It is part of our immune system.
Oct '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Theolonious, you are correct. The Republicans let us down in 2001-2006. Doesn't the fact that Boehner went ahead with the 3.0 plan knowing it would be DOA in the Senate give you any hope that the Republicans may have "gotten religion"? If not, what are our options and what should we do?
Jun '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
An assembly of people demanding fiscal sanity from the political class will not be the cause of the "destruction" of the American Dream. For decades, they have been turning government into a monster they can no longer control. And to be sure, they've had help from the indifferent and the complicit.
I'm all for pragmatic solutions that ease the economic turmoil that will inevitably erupt from bad fiscal policies. But that turmoil is going to come: either in the near term during this current debate, or later when the entitlement system becomes fully unsustainable. But with rare exception, the "establishment" - including the Republicans - hasn't demostrated an ability to construct sound fiscal policy.
If the tea party movement succeeds in any way to shape the debate, more power to them. The demand for fiscal sanity is a call for preserving the American Dream, for today and for future generations. Near term economic turmoil - while real and painful - pales to what may come.
We shouldn't have to wait until 2012 for fiscal sanity. If the Republicans want to be the party of fiscal sanity, then they should listen more carefully to the "hobbits" in their midst.
Oct '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Good Berean, I agree. What is the best way to ensure our cause succeeds?
Oct '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Jim, what would convince you that they are listening? Didn't the passage of Boehner 3.0 which was going to be DOA in the Senate demonstrate they are "listening"?
Jan '11
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
When kidnappers hold hostages, they often warn the cops unless everything goes as they command, the blood will be on the cops' hands.
Of course, that's nonsense. The kidnappers caused the situation, the kidnappers have the guns, and the kidnappers will be the ones to pull the trigger.
The tea party, in this case, plays the role of the cops. The liberals have been spending like crazy, and now they're claiming that if the tea party tries to stop them, it'll all be the fault of the tea party. That's self-serving, absurd nonsense.
Jun '10
Re: Will The Tea Party Unintentionally Destroy The American Dream?
Al Kennedy
Jim, what would convince you that they are listening? Didn't the passage of Boehner 3.0 which was going to be DOA in the Senate demonstrate they are "listening"?
Al, it's going to take more than one bill. They made a good start with the Ryan budget. Cut, Cap & Balance wasn't bad either. But then they started (by appearances anyway) playing footsie. Then came the messaging that those of us who are demanding fiscal sanity are hobbits or radicals who are undermining the establishment and threatening to destroy a compromise. This doesn't help - if fact, it prompts me to be more suspect rather than less.
I may be just a rube in flyover country, but I'm a rube that doesn't take kindly to being dismissed by those who want my vote. Intra-party squabbles over policy and tactics are fine. Being ridiculed by an establishment who expects us to bow to the superior intellect isn't necessary and damages their own case.
The Democrats do enough to ridicule the tea party movement. Having the Republican establishment do the same just reinforces the elite vs. the average citizen paradigm.