Recording the weekly Ricochet podcast just now, we got to talking about Ricochet member John Walker's post, below, asking if there aren't, here and there, at least a few slender grounds for

WFB

optimism about the future of the country.  Rob Long, James Lileks, and our guests, Ricochet members Kenneth and Pilgrim--all replied, in a word, no.

Kenneth cited the illegitimacy rate, which is already high and still rising.  Pilgrim referred to the economic mess.  Rob made a brief but gallant effort to argue that, since the country has turned itself around before, it could do so once again.  James disagreed, noting that whereas moral rot used to be looked upon as just that, moral rot, today the elite class in the country sees moral laxity of all kinds, including the dissolution of marriage, as a positive good.

How can we reverse the moral decay?  The economic disarray?  Our staggering indebtedness? When James tossed the conversation to me, I replied, pathetically, "I simply don't know."

Which statement, if I may, I would like briefly to amend here on the website:  I don't know how we can find our way out, but I believe that optimism is warranted, even now.  Why?

To quote William F. Buckley, Jr., speaking at a rally at Carnegie Hall during Khrushchev's 1960 visit to the United States--in other words, at the height of the Cold War:

Ladies and gentlemen, we deem it the central revelation of Western experience that man cannot ineradicably stain himself, for the wells of regeneration are infinitely deep. No temple has ever been so profaned that it cannot be purified; no man is ever truly lost; no nation is irrevocably dishonored. Khrushchev cannot take permanent advantage of our temporary disadvantage, for it is the West he is fighting. And in the West there lie, however encysted, the ultimate resources, which are moral in nature. Khrushchev is not aware that the gates of hell shall not prevail against us. Even out of the depths of despair, we take heart in the knowledge that it cannot matter how deep we fall, for there is always hope. In the end, we will bury him.

The wells of regeneration are infinitely deep.  That isn't fancy happy talk.  It's a statement of knowledge about the deep structure of reality--a statement of a basic article of the conservative faith.

When I heard him speak in Washington ten days ago, Congressman Paul Ryan proved

Paul Ryan

 particularly striking in his sheer cheerfulness.  If anyone has an impossible job--if anyone has reason for gloom--then surely it's the young chairman of the House Budget Committee, who faces mounting budgetary catastrophe and a popular president intent on thwarting his every effort to avert it.  Yet Mr. Ryan proved at ease, spoke not only intelligently but serenely, and even managed to tell a couple of good jokes.

I'm with him.  

I hereby resolve to cheer up--and keep fighting.

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Bryan G. Stephens
Joined
May '10
Bryan G. Stephens

Good quote. Thanks Peter.

Though for optimism, I thought you might also roll out a quote from your old boss:

Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have.

Though I sometimes think my battle cry, the reason to keep fighting, no matter the darkness ahead:

Let us be sure that those who come after will say of us in our time, that in our time we did everything that could be done. We finished the race; we kept them free; we kept the faith.

raycon
Joined
Oct '10
raycon

From an earlier post:  

"We have seen where the left wants to go, over and over again.  Think Libya, Egypt, Taliban... pick your tyranny.  The only thing needed for us to wind up with that is to keep opposing the left and to lose the battle.  Like wrestling an alligator, once you are engaged, losing is never an option.

"How refreshing to finally see the lines being drawn."  Whatever the issue; whether social failures, abortion, gay marriage or education, or fiscal; debt, profligacy, union funding of the Dems, "I agree with Rob Long.  We need to get on with the fight.

"I can think of nothing more optimistic than that!!" 

Kenneth
Joined
Jul '10
Kenneth

Peter, I'm an optimist on a personal level; I believe my wife and I have the personal strengths to deal with adversity.

But on a social level, it's hard to maintain optimism.  This country's destiny seems to be in the hands of people who either don't wish it well; or who want their entitlements and others be damned; or who have the right values, but are not staunch enough to stem the tide of civilizational decay. 

Within 20 years, half the country's young people will be the feral offspring of never-married mothers.  We know what social costs that brings.  How does a nation recover from such a thing? 

Aaron Miller
Joined
May '10
Aaron Miller

I believe that hope, like love, is something one spends a lifetime learning how to do. It is admirable to be inclined to hope (like Peter), but not admirable to hope in all things.

If a football team is down by four touchdowns with only two minutes left in the game, it's not admirable to hope for victory. It's foolish.

Thankfully, the future of a society of 300+ million people is not so easy to guage, so I do believe one can reasonably hope against these impossible odds that America will right itself.

In any case, that football team in the midst of a game already lost should continue to play as if there is no clock at all. And citizens in the midst of a social freefall should continue to live according to the values that made this nation great.

All lives lead to death, yet we love life because we know that our lives are leading to something beyond death; something good. Whatever happens to our nation, I'm confident that the Good Shepherd will be there to help us build something new and beautiful.

Bryan G. Stephens
Joined
May '10
Bryan G. Stephens

Kenneth: Peter, I'm an optimist on a personal level; I believe my wife and I have the personal strengths to deal with adversity.

But on a social level, it's hard to maintain optimism.  This country's destiny seems to be in the hands of people who either don't wish it well; or who want their entitlements and others be damned; or who have the right values, but are not staunch enough to stem the tide of civilizational decay. 

Within 20 years, half the country's young people will be the feral offspring of never-married mothers.  We know what social costs that brings.  How does a nation recover from such a thing?  · Mar 10 at 11:13am

First off, they will not all be feral. It is a problem, but not the end of the world for each and everyone. A better way of looking at it, is how many people will be cut off from the American Dream. I don't know how to answer that one, but those of us who do "get it" have to push ahead to bring along all we can.

Brian Watt
Joined
Jun '10
Brian Watt

It's difficult for me to be pessimistic about America's prospects even given the erosion of the American family, the prevalent leftist bias in our education system, the predominant air of political correctness that prohibits us from adequately addressing threats to the nation, and even the belligerence and bullying tactics practiced by those under the guidance of our current President.

I suppose I would be pessimistic about the prospects for this country had not the Tea Party movement emerged. The effect that the movement has had transcends the results of just one mid-term election. The movement has energized Americans not only to learn about the core values and history of the Republic but has empowered, once resigned or frustrated Americans by given them the tools to restore it. 

Today, there are more Republican governors and Republican-controlled legislatures who can remap voting districts and begin to get control of the debt and excess that Democrat-controlled legislatures have built up over time - and they are being monitored very closely by the Tea Party movement that they keep their promises and get the job done.

Bryan G. Stephens
Joined
May '10
Bryan G. Stephens

Brian,

The Tea Party gives me more hope than the GOP leaders. The GOP lets us down.

Still, in the mid 1770's, it was about 1/3 of the people who performed a miracle. Then, in 1787, we got a second one. Why not one again. If I believe that America is something new, different and blessed, then I have to think that we have more in us, and more to show the world.

If Europe can start back to sanity (too late in my opinion), then we can do so right now and save ourselves.

Kenneth
Joined
Jul '10
Kenneth

On second thought, in order not to seem a total doom-sayer, let me suggest that we should "act as if".  By which I mean, no matter how dire we perceive the future to be, we should all act as if it is in our power to change the outcome. 

A less-than-optimistic view of the future does not, then, imply that one simply sits on ones hands, waiting for the inevitable collapse. 

Peter Robinson

Kenneth: On second thought, in order not to seem a total doom-sayer, let me suggest that we should "act as if".  By which I mean, no matter how dire we perceive the future to be, we should all act as if it is in our power to change the outcome. 

A less-than-optimistic view of the future does not, then, imply that one simply sits on ones hands, waiting for the inevitable collapse.  · Mar 10 at 11:25am

You're moving in my direction, Kenneth.  Just keep comin', baby.

Michael Labeit
Joined
May '10
Michael Labeit

Peter Robinson: Recording the weekly Ricochet podcast just now, we got to talking about Ricochet member John Walker's post, below, asking if there aren't, here and there, at least a few slender grounds for optimism about the future of the country. Rob Long, James Lileks, and our guests, Ricochet members Kenneth and Pilgrim--all replied, in a word, no.

Kenneth cited the illegitimacy rate, which is already high and still rising. Pilgrim referred to the economic mess. Rob made a brief but gallant effort to argue that, since the country has turned itself around before, it could do so once agai James disagreed, noting that whereas moral rot used to be looked upon as just that, moral rot, today the elite class in the country sees moral laxity of all kinds, including the dissolution of marriage, as a positive good.

Please. I wonder if you'll all be deceased before any of the social pathologies you guys cite will manifest into genuinely significant socio-economic problems, if at all. Much of the pessimism that people express has more to do with the pourvoi of the rebel and the wallowing within one's own despair than anything else.

Edited on Mar 10, 2011 at 11:59am
Brian Watt
Joined
Jun '10
Brian Watt

I think it's incumbent upon those here on Ricochet to carry on the discussions and the arguments about why the American idea is worth restoring and defending to others not so engaged. Most of us here realize that we're not terribly shy people and hopefully aren't reserving the power of our rhetorical skills only for comments here on Ricochet. 

I think to be pessimistic, in some sense, admits resignation; essentially that you as an individual - and a passionate, educated and articulate individual - don't have an influence, even if minor, to change the terms of the national debate and change the course the country is on. 

I choose to look to Ronald Reagan's example and his eternal optimism that America's best days are still ahead of her. It's easier to change hearts and minds if one projects optimism rather than pessimism because human beings always yearn to improve their lives...and the American experiment has been the most successful way to do that. Some people just need some reminding of that from time to time. Others, like true believers in socialism and anarchy, of course, need to be deftly, skillfully and rhetorically bludgeoned.

Edited on Mar 10, 2011 at 11:43am
Brian Watt
Joined
Jun '10
Brian Watt

Bryan G. Stephens: Brian,

The Tea Party gives me more hope than the GOP leaders. The GOP lets us down.

Still, in the mid 1770's, it was about 1/3 of the people who performed a miracle. Then, in 1787, we got a second one. Why not one again. If I believe that America is something new, different and blessed, then I have to think that we have more in us, and more to show the world.

If Europe can start back to sanity (too late in my opinion), then we can do so right now and save ourselves. · Mar 10 at 11:21am

I'm with you, brother. It's almost as though you anticipated my comment in #11.

Kennedy Smith
Joined
May '10
Kennedy Smith

 There is movement in the right direction on a number of fronts, and the public mood is at our backs (?!).  But it's daunting.  Sisyphean.  Makes you want to head straight for the carpet and curl into fetal position, crooning softly.

Alkies refer to Hitting Bottom.  The short, sharp shock that lets you know you're out of rope, and you can die or bounce back.  It can produce miracles, or tragedy.  If any nation can hope for a bounce back from the end of our tether, America can.

Is that optimistic?

Michael Labeit
Joined
May '10
Michael Labeit

Pessimistic? So our podcast participants think that socio-economic conditions in America 20 years from now will be worse than they are currently? Yes or no.

EJHill
Joined
May '10
EJHill

There is a universal disclaimer on all investment materials that reads, "Past performance is no indication of future returns." And it applies to here as well.

When we reach to our past, as Peter does here, be it to Buckley, Reagan or the Founding Fathers, we need to remind ourselves that these men stood on solid rock. Increasingly we do our shouting from shifting sands.

Wisconsin is now our guide. If the "progressives" and their communist allies are able to recall enough state senators/representatives to overturn yesterday's events we are most assuredly doomed. This generation of Americans will have proclaimed that the American Era is over, so let us rape the treasuries of the states and the federal government, let us "get ours" and to hell with the future.

Increasingly our focus has become retributive. I want what you have and I will take it by any means. I will destroy your family, your faith, your government to obtain it. I will ally myself with anyone who will help me destroy you. I do not care for your "democracy" unless it serves my ends. Otherwise I will demand judicial or executive fiat.

Good luck with that.

Brian Watt
Joined
Jun '10
Brian Watt

Peter Robinson

Kenneth: On second thought, in order not to seem a total doom-sayer, let me suggest that we should "act as if".  By which I mean, no matter how dire we perceive the future to be, we should all act as if it is in our power to change the outcome. 

A less-than-optimistic view of the future does not, then, imply that one simply sits on ones hands, waiting for the inevitable collapse.  · Mar 10 at 11:25am

You're moving in my direction, Kenneth.  Just keep comin', baby. · Mar 10 at 11:29am

Kenneth, as usual, brings clarity to the discussion. For most of us here who have a sense of history, we know all too well what the current path the nation has been on leads to - national insolvency, a country incapable of defending itself, authoritarian and eventual totalitarian control, rampant wealth distribution on a scale that we have never witnessed. Everything that is counter to what the Founders had in mind. If there are pangs of pessimism, it's because many of us understand just how horrific our future could be. But then all the more reason to keep speaking out.

Robert Bennett
Joined
May '10
Robert Bennett

Decline is a choice.  It always is.

Robert Lux
Joined
Nov '10
Robert Lux

The republic is declining- of that there's no doubt; anyone with eyes to see can see that.  This has fundamentally to do with a change in the whole moral calculus of the nation since the Great Depression. It's totally insufficient to say, as many libertarian-minded conservatives are wont to say, that "self-interest" will kick in and people will overturn programs that are too expensive, etc.

Bottom line: it's a moral duty "to go down with guns blazing and flags flying," as Leo Strauss once put it. It's our obligation, by fighting the good fight, to leave a record- to give an account for why the republic ought to have survived.   

Ken Owsley
Joined
Nov '10
Ken Owsley

At the risk of....something let me say this:  it's more than just the economic problems.  But first, I am as worried about our nation fiscally as all of you, and I think Rob is right on regarding entitlement programs.  I had an exchange on Facebook with a senior citizen who's profile indicated she was Christian and Conservative.  She was suggesting we cut the pay of all of congress in order to combat the deficit.  I said as Rob has "doesn't matter, cut Social Security."  The exchange ended when she told me she couldn't wait until I was old, sick, and poor.  They want fiscal responsibility like they want nuclear power-plants:  in someone else's backyard.  So I'm not optimistic there (but I want to be).  I am less optimistic about our social problems.  They seem to get worse and worse, and being a Christian I feel my social views being more and more marginalized as the years go on.  It is the lack of moral fiber that will bring this country down, long term.  Yes the financial issues are immediate and devastating.  But fixing them isn't the only solution.

ShellGamer
Joined
Feb '11
ShellGamer

You're right to point to Buckley, for he put us on the path we need to stay on. National Review provided a forum in which the conservative movement could formulate, articulate and disseminate its core positions, at a time when few voters were paying attention to these issues. When circumstances made voters more attentive (e.g., the economic malaise of the 70's), the movement was prepared to explain the sources of the problem and the means of surmounting it. We were fortunate in the talents of our leader, President Reagan, but his success was due in no small part to the intellectual foundation built under the auspices of National Review. We did not prevail on every (perhaps even most) fronts, but ending the Cold War without bloodshed was no mean feat.

Our problem now is noise, from within and without. Buckley famously regulated the spectrum of conservative views presented in NR--so that energy was not wasted on Birchers or objectivists. We would still benefit from more focused internal debate. Maybe we could then project our message through the hurley-burley of the internet. People are still listening.


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