Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
I've already mentioned Theodore Dalrymple's essay in the current issue of City Journal, but it strikes me as so insightful that I found myself re-reading it yesterday evening. Dalrymple is writing about the U.K., where spending cuts have already gone into effect, but he might as well be writing about this country--and the tea party's agenda. It's going to be a lot harder for our side to cut spending than it was for Obama to expand it--a lot harder.
In this conflict, one side is bound to be more militant and ruthless than the other, since taxes are increased incrementally--and everyone is already accustomed to them, anyway--but jobs are lost instantaneously and catastrophically, with the direst personal consequences.
Thus those who oppose tax increases and favor government retrenchment will seldom behave as aggressively as those who will suffer personally fro budget reductions.
As I said the last time I quoted Dalrymple, I'm not predicting that riots like those in Britain will take place here in the United States. But the massive protests the teachers' unions staged in Madison represent the merest foretaste of what is to come.
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May '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
What you say about those affected directly by cuts resisting with more intensity than those supporting them, plus the corrupting influence of money and power upon politicians, is why I don't feel optimistic we will turn around without truly crashing with a splat first.
We are going to hear a lot more from Dalrymple before all is said and done. But he's not just talking about it.. he's getting involved. Have you heard of PovertyCure.org? It's an organization based on Judeo-Christian values that attempts to help the poor help themselves. Dalrymple has done a promotional video for them, which is how I found out about them.
Edited on Aug 9, 2011 at 11:33amSep '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
I agree. The Left has been screaming about the debt ceiling deal, which only reduces the rate of increase of the national debt. If the GOP takes control of the federal government and passes actual spending reductions, the Left will incite violent riots. Remember the rioters at the WTO? The Republican Convention?
And the press will blame... the GOP. Get ready, it's coming. Prepare to defend yourselves and your property.
Edited on Aug 9, 2011 at 11:08amMay '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
I wonder if the one ray of hope for the US in the coming troubles will be that our much burdened private sector is not yet defeated and dying, and that people reliant on private and personal enterprise are still a visible and vocal force (Tea Party?). When the cutbacks come to the US in a big way, as they inevitably must, some Americans will rejoice to have a crushing burden lifted, and there is hope that private hiring could soften the blow on those losing their government-supplied livelihood.
Private investment is reputed to bring more jobs and prosperity than government programs, so a concerted reversal of the flow towards government control of the economy should return tangible benefits and find supporters, at least in a country where people still think that way.
Has the dependance of government in Europe become so universal that no one sees cutbacks as a relief?
May '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
I see Peter's point (and Dalrymple's) but I've gotta observe that, as far as I can tell, the folks whose benefits are hardest to cut are actually among the least likely to riot -- it's Social Security, Medicare, and defense contractor largesse that are untouchable in our political climate.
Granted teachers' unions are way too powerful as well. But for me, the issue isn't that teachers are overpaid -- I'm fine with their salary -- so much as that I want to fire the bad ones at will, and dole out compensation by skill rather than seniority.
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
Peter, I doubt that Madison can be duplicated in many places. The fact that the University of Wisconsin is in the state capitol is crucial -- as is the fact that it is the hippie capital of the Midwest. I do not think that anything like this will happen in Michigan. California, of course, is different. When things come down there, there will be an explosion. And the same may be true for Illinois. Consider how the Dems in Massachusetts lowered the boom quietly on the public-sector unions, and consider what Cuomo has done in New York. We have problems, to be sure. But they are mainly race-related. In the UK, they gave up enforcing the laws against criminals some time ago.
Dec '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
VDH ties this post directly into your last one. There is definitely a membrane through which all these various calamities are connected.
May '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
For the sake of perspective, a list of riots: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots
Dec '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
Conor Friedersdorf
For the sake of perspective, a list of riots: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots · Aug 9 at 11:49am
Is it my imagination or is it getting worse and exponentially so?
Mar '11
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
The King Prawn
Conor Friedersdorf
For the sake of perspective, a list of riots: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots · Aug 9 at 11:49am
Is it my imagination or is it getting worse and exponentially so? · Aug 9 at 11:53am
Yeah, it's kinda hockey stick worse.
Aug '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
California, of course, is different. When things come down there, there will be an explosion.
I wish I could disagree, but I know better.
The always excellent Tad Friend wrote a fine piece on the the Berkeley protests of late 2009, sparked by a 20% cut in state funds to the University of California. It is worth the time and expense.
Juvenile intransigence is now epidemic in our politics.
May '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
I presume that the farther back in history one goes, the less likely it is that things like "Riot at the Staples Center After Lakers Win Championship" are listed. I don't think things are getting worse.
Sep '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
Don't be so sure. Detroit and Dearborn are in Michigan.
Sep '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
Alas, alas for England. When I see what's happening over there, I think, "Thank God for the Second Amendment".
Aug '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
Conor Friedersdorf
For the sake of perspective, a list of riots: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots · Aug 9 at 11:49am
The Wikipedia Entry is incomplete - notably it makes no mention of the series of riots we now call the Boxer Rebellion. Apparently, unless a newspaper or other periodical gave the riot a name it isn't listed. Furthermore, until you get deeply into the 20th and 21st century, the majority of the riots appear to occur in Western countries.
I would discount the perception of an increase in rioting.
Dec '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
One difference you will find is that in the US, we've largely given up on the cities. If there's a riot in Detroit, will anybody notice? Even in DC, it wouldn't get too much attention unless they start attacking the monuments.
May '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
And Americans own guns...as do our police. Taxpayers will demand police use them.
May '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
sry...dup post...somehow.
Edited on Aug 9, 2011 at 12:58pmSep '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
If it occurs when a Republican is in the White House, it will be all over the news for days, complete with commentary about draconian GOP cuts giving the poor and downtrodden no other recourse except violence. Count on it.
Jul '11
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
dogsbody
If it occurs when a Republican is in the White House, it will be all over the news for days, complete with commentary about draconian GOP cuts giving the poor and downtrodden no other recourse except violence. Count on it. · Aug 9 at 1:27pm
Well this cowboy is ready but I am afraid the court of public opinion will always lean toward whatever the socialists in the media tell them to lean to.
Aug '10
Re: Why It's Ugly Over There--and Will Get Ugly Over Here
Detroit has been ritually burning houses for years now. It's a tradition.
Additionally, when the first union fireman gets pulled out of his truck and beaten, the stuff will hit the fan. Not only are the fireman usually union, but they also carry the symbol of 9/11 with them as the real heroes. That will not sit with the American people.
Frances Cloward-Piven will be hosting her little salon and serving stuffed grape leaves and Ouzo to her radical-chic friends as they rhapsodize about Greek riots, but their view will still be from 30,000 ft up Marx' s rear.
Remember how fruitless the sixties were ? Johnson not deciding to run was the only prize I can remember. And Moynihan's White Paper. Doubtful they want to remember those milestones. Unless Watts and the other fires were successful.