Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
Claire Berlinski, Ed. ·
Jan 12, 2011 at 11:24am
Hillary Clinton says the United States isn't "taking sides" in the escalating unrest in Tunisia.
You know my standard caveat--I'm not there--but it sure looks to me like these kids are sick of living under a dictatorship and want that government to go. Why wouldn't we be on their side? Aren't we in favor of getting rid of corrupt autocrats? Aren't we in favor of democracy?
Tunisian protesters, I'm on your side. If there's anything you'd like me to help you with, let me know. Tell me what's going on there, and I'll do my best to get the story out.
- Comment (16)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (1)
Comments :
Jul '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
"But we are saying we hope that there can be a peaceful resolution. And I hope that the Tunisian government can bring that about," she said.
Um, isn't that taking the government's side?
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
Oh, God, Claire you're so right. Tunisia is one of those places that I fear we're about to lose to madness -- and probably due to this kind of feckless reaction from American diplomats. It's unclear to me what, exactly, the upside is for cozying up to Ben Ali.
My guess is that, like a lot of autocratic leaders in moderate, basically secular Muslim countries, he's always pointing to the Islamist factions and saying, "See? Without me, this place would become the next Iran," which scares off any criticism.
It's a risk, of course, but I'm with you: we should always stand with democracy and liberty. In Tunisia. In Iran. In everywhere.
Nov '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
Rob Long: Oh, God, Claire you're so right. Tunisia is one of those places that I fear we're about to lose to madness -- and probably due to this kind of feckless reaction from American diplomats.
It's a risk, of course, but I'm with you: we should always stand with democracy and liberty. In Tunisia. In Iran. In everywhere. · Jan 12 at 11:43am
I favor both, Mr. Long (incidentally, I look first for your column when my National Review arrives) and believe that it is generally in the interests of the US to promote both.
BUT, I think that we must always keep in mind that they are not the same thing and that the tyranny of the mob, so abhorred by our forebears, can be just as cruel as that of any other tyrant.
I recall no example from history of a mob without leaders, so the composition of any revolutionary crowd always has to be regarded with caution and skepticism. Look, for example, at the Weathermen and the Students for Democratic Action in the US during the 'Sixties and Seventies. I shouldn't want to live any place those folks had in charge.
Jul '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
Claire Berlinski, Ed.: Hillary Clinton says the United States isn't "taking sides" in the escalating unrest in Tunisia.
You know my standard caveat--I'm not there--but it sure looks to me like these kids are sick of living under a dictatorship and want that government to go. Why wouldn't we be on their side? Aren't we in favor of getting rid of corrupt autocrats? Aren't we in favor of democracy?
Have you seen any indication that the US government has been on the side of any democracy or democratic movement lately? I think it may be time for the American people to start questioning their politicians. I do not know if this is the USA we have known.
May '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
On a different note, Claire, I'd be curious about your reaction to the Austrian MP's remarks to the Turkish ambassador.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRmgI_WXff0
Thank you.
(Is there a way to pose directed questions such as this without commenting on an unrelated post? Maybe I'm missing something.)
Dec '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
In his Discourses, Machiavelli outlined a useful model for the evolution of social entities. He said that in an ideal world, Monarchy evolves into Aristocracy, which in turn evolves into Democracy; however, he pointed out that each of these can take a wrong turn. Monarchy can devolve into Tyranny; Aristocracy can erode into Oligarchy; and Democracy can decompose into Anarchy.
Too often, societies attempt to leapfrog over an intermediate step, going from Tyranny to Democracy, and they fail because the infrastructure to support the new political system wasn't given time to evolve. There's a strong argument that a democratic republic can only survive if it includes a vibrant and widespread middle class, because if there's no middle class to vote to protect its own economic interests, the dispossessed classes will simply vote for whoever promises them the most largess from the public purse.
Jul '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
Stuart Creque
There's a strong argument that a democratic republic can only survive if it includes a vibrant and widespread middle class, because if there's no middle class to vote to protect its own economic interests, the dispossessed classes will simply vote for whoever promises them the most largess from the public purse. · Jan 12 at 1:33pm
Very true. There is also a way to make sure a democratic republic does not survive. That is cronyism in any form and its outcome - corruption.
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
I spent a little time in Tunisia a few years back. The Tunisian story is a sad one. At the time of independence, Habib Bourghiba established a constitution that set term limits for the President. But when the time came for him to retire, he ignored his own constitution. That was the original sin. He also made sure that he had a vice-president that no one could imagine making president. But that eventually backfired, and the policeman who had the job managed to outmaneuver the senile Bourghiba, to have him declared incompetent, and to take over. Later, when, under the constitution, the time came for the policeman to retire, it was made illegal to discuss his replacement.
That is the sad part. There is more, and it is less sad. Tunisia is the only Arab country to have established a secular state on the Turkish model, and elite Tunisians are fierce on the question -- in such a manner as to frustrate the Islamist sympathizers in the US State Department. Moreover, Tunisia is not cursed by the presence of oil. It has excellent farmland (think of ancient Carthage) and a comparatively diversified economy.
Aug '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
Come on .... The State Department is in shambles, this administration and it's appointee aren't "into" foreign relations, they're into relativism and actually believe what the UN says about things. The latest State Department posting on the country concerns itself with ISP hacking !
The Ambassador appears to be experienced in the region, no doubt Tunisia is professional stop and Gray was in Iraq for a short while, so it means they were expecting some trouble. Well, now they have it and Hillary is in the house, so to speak in the region. If we had a top Secstate, we'd see action. But in this admin, all we're ever going to see is the "take no action,take no sides" response. That is ,until England is invaded, and then we will " take precautions that American expats aren't forced to bingedrink".
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
MFQuinn: On a different note, Claire, I'd be curious about your reaction to the Austrian MP's remarks to the Turkish ambassador.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRmgI_WXff0
Thank you.
(Is there a way to pose directed questions such as this without commenting on an unrelated post? Maybe I'm missing something.) · Jan 12 at 1:18pm
I've commented on it previously.
Nov '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
I have to disagree. I don't want my government promoting democracy abroad. What we should be promoting abroad is liberty. They are not the same thing and very often democracy is the enemy of liberty. Surely we'd have to know more about the alternative proposed before our government should offer support. What if the alternative were worse?
Think about the communist protests of the Pinochet regime, for example. No one likes Pinochet authoritarianism, but if the alternative is communist totalitarianism we should back the autocrat. Even if that mean less democracy. Unless you know what the protesters are in favor of, what good is it to blithely support their cause.
I know very little about what's happening in Tunisia I'm afraid. It could be ruled by the worst crowd in the world for all I know, and the protestors could all be angels. But I'd like to be certain of that before I give my support.
Oct '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
Claire Berlinski, Ed.:
Aren't we in favor of getting rid of corrupt autocrats? Aren't we in favor of democracy?
We got the dispiriting answer to that question when the Obama Administration defunded the Iran Human Rights Documentation Center at what seemed the very height of the green uprising. Our support for their unique work was modest enough to begin with; cutting it off was astonishing symbolically, diplomatically and pragmatically. It was, IMO, a gratuitous, but emblematic cruelty, alas.
May '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
I am so disgusted. Our first clue was right out of the gate, when this Administration supported the president of Honduras who tried to become a dictator. I don't get it.
Oct '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
People power is dead. It was already dying after the last successful one (Cedar Revolution in Lebanon). It's even more dead now under the current US administration.
Jun '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
When given the choice of supporting freedom or dictatorship, Obama's administration has chosen dictatorship. Here they take that side by NOT taking sides. America seems no longer to be the solution to totalitarianism, but instead a cheerleader for it.
Nov '10
Re: Why Isn't My Country Taking the Side of the Tunisian People?
Ms. O'Grady in the Wall Street Journal has written lucidly about and commented trenchantly on this topic. The manoeuvrings of our government were deplorable.