Why Is This Controversial?
katievs ·
December 11, 2012 at 10:10pm
According to a Daily Mail article I just read, a University of Texas Professor has "sparked outrage" by stating the screamingly obvious: black and Hispanic children are failing because so many of them are being raised in poor, single-parent homes.
What's controversial here? What are we disputing? That (as a group) black and Hispanic students are doing poorly compared with whites and Asians? That many more black and Hispanic children (as compared with white and Asian children) are being raised in poor, single-parent homes? That there is any connection between these two "data points"?
I don't get it.
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Comments:
Nov '11
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
The connection, of course. The idea that there might be any contributing factor related to something other than white suppression.
In fact, it should really be a liberating indication that it has nothing to do with race itself. Children from stable two-parent homes tend to be more successful -- from whatever ethnic background. In other words, there's a hopeful way forward for everyone.
But of course, pointing that out would also be admitting that certain lifestyles are better than others, at least for one's children. And that also goes against deeply-held beliefs.
Apr '12
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
It mentions that black and hispanic folks are failing at above average levels.
Even though it doesn't mention culture, it might get folks looking there, and if your world view requires that you ignore that part, it's highly uncomfortable and thus a nuke topic.
Jun '10
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
The social sciences are notorious for never proving much of anything. But if there is any proposition that has been proven over and over and over, it is that children raised by two married parents do dramatically better than children raised in single-parent families.
This isn't racism, sexism, marriageism, conservatism, or any other "ism": it's simple, verifiable fact.
The nanny state will not be your Little League or soccer coach: that takes actual parents, and it's far less likely to happen if there's only one of them. The department of social services is a crappy parent.
Edited on December 11, 2012 at 5:30pmApr '11
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
You know the BBC selected the interviewer, just so he could say "I'm black and raised in a single parent family. I'm OK."
The anecdote is rhetorically effective and devilishly so. Even a sterling statistical argument will not counter it. The professor should have come back with a counter-anecdote.
Jun '12
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
tabula rasa: The social sciences are notorious for never proving much of anything. But if there is any proposition that has been proven over and over and over, it is that children raised by two married parents do dramatically better than children raised in single-parent families.
This isn't racism, sexism, marriageism, conservatism, or any other "ism": it's simple, verifiable fact.
The nanny state will not be your Little League or soccer coach: that takes actual parents, and it's far less likely to happen if there's only one of them. The department of social services is a crappy parent. · 5 minutes ago
Edited 5 minutes ago
But... but... but... Tab, it takes a village to raise a kid! Hillary said so! You don't think she could be wrong, do you?
Jun '10
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
ConservativeWanderer
tabula rasa: The social sciences are notorious for never proving much of anything. But if there is any proposition that has been proven over and over and over, it is that children raised by two married parents do dramatically better than children raised in single-parent families.
This isn't racism, sexism, marriageism, conservatism, or any other "ism": it's simple, verifiable fact.
The nanny state will not be your Little League or soccer coach: that takes actual parents, and it's far less likely to happen if there's only one of them. The department of social services is a crappy parent. · 5 minutes ago
Edited 5 minutes ago
But... but... but... Tab, it takes a village to raise a kid! Hillary said so! You don't think she could be wrong, do you? · 2 minutes ago
Silly me. Always forgetting this stuff.
I love the kids in my neighborhood, but I don't pull them off the street so I can help them with algebra. I hated it with my own kids, but I did it because I felt a sense of duty.
May '10
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
So it's not nature, and now it's not nurture either. What's left?
The White Man's got something to do with it, I bet.
May '10
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
"Screamingly" is a new one -- an adverb that'll come in handy over the next four yrs, for sure.
Jun '12
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
Scott Reusser: So it's not nature, and now it's not nurture either. What's left?
The White Man's got something to do with it, I bet. · 3 minutes ago
Specifically, the White Man named Booooooooooooosh.
It's all his fault.
May '10
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
Right. But how completely silly. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence and thoughtfulness knows that an anecdote doesn't disprove a general fact. Nor does stating a general truth involve a denial of exceptions.
That, on the whole and all things considered, children do best when they're raised in intact homes by their biological parents is plainly true. Everyone knows it's true. No one thinks it means that it's impossible for children to do well if they're not raised in an intact home by their biological parents. No one. That would be absurd. We all know and celebrate exceptions to the rule.
"Children in wealthy homes have real advantages that poor children lack" is generally true. Who disputes it? Or who imagines it means that all wealthy children are better-raised than all poor children?
For heaven's sake. What is the matter with people?
May '10
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
Aren't all affirmative action programs based on the same fact?
Dec '10
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
It is thoughtcrime to notice bad things about how any non-male or non-white groups acts.
It is also usually thoughtcrime to notice absolutely anything about how any group of people acts. There are exceptions, but you really need an advanced education in social maneuvering to spot the ones acceptable to speak about in public. So one is generally best off avoiding all such observations.
May '11
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
mere mention of the topic sparked conversation ... which is controversial ... so, in a round about way, he sparked controversy.
Of course, it might just as easily be said that any time a conservative opens his mouth, he sparks controversy. Pretty easy to do when liberals erupt at anything and everything we say.
Edited on December 11, 2012 at 8:11pmMay '11
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
KarlUB: It is thoughtcrime to notice bad things about how any non-male or non-white groups acts.
It is also usuallythoughtcrime to notice absolutely anything about how any group of people acts. There are exceptions, but you really need an advanced education in social maneuvering to spot the ones acceptable to speak about in public. So one is generally best off avoiding all such observations. · 4 minutes ago
Huh? I'm not sure how hard it is. Say something bad about a white Christian - male or female - and wait for the liberal outrage.... keep waiting ... crickets.
I think it's quite easy to find exempt groups! I can see from your avatar that you happen to be one, yourself.
Jun '10
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
There is truth in fact. There is political truth. Frequently they have no relationship to each other.
Aug '11
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
It caused a controversy because he was white (if a black or hispanic person said it they'd probably be called "A Leader in X Community"). And that's not the only reason. It also caused a controversy because it is an attack on a variety of liberal narratives. And that's not the only reason either!
The truth value of his statement is of course up for debate.
But the issue is that in many cases, people confuse feeling for thinking.
To me what he says seems to be true. I'd imagine it would be true for any race. And it would become more true as it perpetuates itself throughout the generations.
Why not just reverse the statement, "you'll be just fine in school and life if you have one parent who is poor and uneducated, and it doesn't matter at all if it's your black mother." Okay. I'm fine with that, now we don't need to worry about this welfare state. We can defund it! Because poverty and families don't matter!
Mar '11
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
katievs
For heaven's sake. What is the matterwith people? · 3 minutes ago
You know the answer to that already.
May '10
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
Just so.
God help us.
Aug '10
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
Liberals go through life misattributing causes to effects, and therefore they never address the actual causes and continually waste resources on phantom causes.
Occasionally, the misunderstanding of cause-and-effect enters the realm of appalling ignorance. Nicholas Kristof recently wrote a New York Times column wherein he deplored the state of the electrical infrastructure, claiming that higher taxes on the rich would help solve the problem. Hey, when all you care about is hammering, then every problem looks like a nail. Electrical infrastructure, of course, is paid for by electric customers and investors--not taxpayers. The industry is one of the most highly regulated, so to the extent there are failures of service, these are failures of regulation. But don't expect Kristof and his readers to blame government bureaucrats when it's so comforting and satisfying to blame conservatives and the wealthy for a problem they have nothing to do with.
Conservatives are vilified for telling the truth, while liberals are applauded for repeating myths and out-and-out lies, as long as the untruths fit the preferred, liberal narrative. Oh, and liberals are also applauded for hate speech, as Jamie Foxx and his SNL audience have demonstrated.
Jun '10
Re: Why Is This Controversial?
tabula rasa
Silly me. Always forgetting this stuff.
I love the kids in my neighborhood, but I don't pull them off the street so I can help them with algebra. I hated it with my own kids, but I did it because I felt a sense of duty
So, the first time your kid walked up to you with a plaintive look, presenting their confusing homework, you said "I was told there would be no math..."?