Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
First off, it's a nice phrase, yes? I first got introduced to the practice of referring to public education facilities as "government schools" by some wonderfully witty conservative friends in Louisiana. And it's clarifying because -- like airports, the DMV, and the Los Angeles freeway system -- it's a reminder that the more involved government is in any given project, the more likely it is that the experience is going to remind you of a Soviet bread line.
California schools are often a ripe example, but the problem is bigger than lax management. It's also that it's impossible to politicize administration without politicizing curriculum. Consider this item from the Sacramento Bee's Capitol Alert blog:
Openly gay state Sen. Mark Leno, D-San Francisco, introduced a bill today that would require public school materials to include the historical contributions of gay people as a way to fight bullying.
Leno's Senate Bill 48 is similar to a proposal that was approved by the Legislature in 2006 but vetoed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.
"Most textbooks don't include any historical information about the LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender) movement, which has great significance to both California and U.S. history," Leno said in a press release. Leno was recently named to prominent leadership as chairman of the Senate Budget Committee.
Leno added: "Our collective silence on this issue perpetuates negative stereotypes of LGBT people and leads to increased bullying of young people."
Personally, gay rights isn't a particularly hobby horse of mine. What it is, however, is a subject that doesn't need to be foisted on students as a proxy for broader political fights. Whether its teaching gay rights in California, intelligent design in Kansas, or American exceptionalism in Texas, I'd rather live in a society where parents and schools wrestled with what students should be taught and when instead of having the decisions made for them by elected officials. In some respects, I think it's an even more persuasive rationale for school choice than performance measures.
As an aside -- and I'm being serious -- does anyone know if the G, L, and B communities have ever resisted having the T's lumped in with them? Seems to me like a difference in kind rather than degree.
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Sep '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
Government schools exist to create consumers rather than citizens. By the way, if Senator Jay Leno is concerned about bullying then allow LGBT students to opt out of the government system and either homeschool or join more amenable charter schools.
Dec '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
Nov '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
I like the name "government schools." My husband considers sending a child to them close to child abuse; but we are lucky that we have only one child and can therefore afford an alternative.
We have learned, living in a very liberal area, that some people feel as strongly in favor of the public schools as we feel against them. They feel that they must, on principle, send their child to the local public school even knowing that it is a mediocre school in a poor school system.
Nov '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
The thing I like about the phrase "government schools" is that it implies that there can be another kind, and that they don't have to be that way.
I have a better idea. How about requiring all schools to include lessons about the contributions of Christianity to US history? Between homosexuals and Christians, which do you think has been more influential? Which has had a more positive impact?
Dec '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
The so called “government schools” exist in their present form only because conservatives (and Christians) usually fail to do their part to prevent decrepitude. Notions of “school choice” and at its most extreme “home schooling” are instances of conservative civic failure. I call it civic failure because those are cases where conservatives fail to engage in civic discourse necessary to prevent “government school” failure. There is always “school choice” even in “government schools”: we call those things school board elections, parent teacher organizations, parent teacher conferences, and in the “olden” days, “room mothers.” The fact that one state senator wants to corrupt the school curriculum in San Francisco schools does not signal “government school” failure, it shows good parents have left the field of play.
At bottom “government schools,” private schools, and parochial schools do the same things: they buy textbooks, adopt curriculum, and hire teachers. Unfortunately “education” is not something that detached conservative (and Christian) parents can buy for their kids ready made off the shelf. Good education requires parents involve themselves in the community. The apparent success in parochial schools comes because parents (and other like minded individuals) involve themselves in the larger church community.
Sep '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
The so called “government schools” exist in their present form
I think you would find if a revealing exercise to research how compulsory state schooling came about, why it came about, and where it came about. I would say more, but cat has my tongue.
Oct '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
The very concept of permitting the minds of our children to be molded by persons not closely known by ourselves is peculiar. Understandably, many parents, myself included when my kids were young, were not in a position to educate our own kids. That, however, does not mean handing the kids over to strangers who are unknown to us beyond their employment by a government entity.
My son is 38 and my daughter is 35, and to this day we still visit, by phone, with their kindergarten teacher, and have contact with others from the faculty. The small Christian school they attended stretched our finances sacrificially every year they were there. The cost was high, the reward... two adult children who reflect the thinking we share and desire for them. But, perhaps that is divisive. Perhaps if they were more compliant they would be more acceptable to the elites. The real goal of government schools. Academics are a rather minor issue.
May '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
Pseudodionysius: The so called “government schools” exist in their present form
I think you would find if a revealing exercise to research how compulsory state schooling came about, why it came about, and where it came about. I would say more, but cat has my tongue. · Dec 14 at 8:16am
Okay, you've got my attention. How, why and where?
Sep '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
FeliciaB
Pseudodionysius: The so called “government schools” exist in their present form
I think you would find if a revealing exercise to research how compulsory state schooling came about, why it came about, and where it came about. I would say more, but cat has my tongue. · Dec 14 at 8:16am
Okay, you've got my attention. How, why and where? · Dec 14 at 9:55am
Well, you have to start with Horace Mann and the Prussian schools, so I would start with Separating School and State.
Nov '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
Good education requires parents involve themselves in the community.
I disagree. Good education requires that parents involve themselves in their children's education, even if that means outsourcing said education to various more highly qualified others.
The idea of civic engagement is lovely; I'm very involved with my community in a number of ways. I also have either homeschooled my kids or sent them to a private school (when funds have been available). While I'm busy engaging the culture, my kids are still growing and maturing. I don't want them stewing in the petri dish that is the statist narrative while I'm out at PTA meetings and school board elections.
I'll continue to work for change in my community--for whatever that's worth--while I simultaneously ensure that my children get the best possible education. What they can get at the government school is not the best that I can give them--it can't be, because as Pseudodionysius noted above, American public education was created with a completely different intent in mind. I'm educating my kids for freedom; the state is educating them for slavery. Diametrically opposed ends.
Nov '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
I want to teach your children about a behavior.
Compared to the population at large (heterosexual), this behavior results in:
Now, I want to teach this to your children as a normal, healthy alternative lifestyle, and I want to start doing it when they're in elementary school (CA, NY, etc.).
Gay people have the right to cohabitate, freely assemble, and every other right that hetereosexuals have, perhaps even marry (if the state is going to sanction marriage, should it make exclusions?).
What they do not have the right to do is teach my children that theirs is a normal, healthy alternative lifestyle and, what inevitably follows, that anyone who does not fully accept (not just tolerate) their lifestyle is a bigot. Kids have enough pressure and are also rebelious enough without having this with which to impugn their parents.
I would support school choice, if for no other reason, to choose the curriculum less bureaucratically, which would likely eliminate much of this lobbying.
Dec '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
Layla, you prove my point with your behavior.
Let me see if I have this right ). You pulled your school age child(ren) from “Government Schools” because you did not like schools. Instead of petitioning government officials for redress, instead of working on school board election of right-thinking people, instead of working at the PTA, instead of meeting with teachers and administrators, you pulled your right-thinking child from the school and went somewhere else. When you did that, your right-thinking voice was lost in that community.
Compare with the gay state senator in California. He ran for office and won. And now he seeks to “change” the school environment to prevent bullying of other gay people like himself.
Why are so called government schools actually bad? Because conservative and Christian parents refuse to take the social risks necessary to fight to make government schools better. When you see Goliath and his Philistines, you turn tail and run.
Conservatives are losing the culture war in schools because conservatives are too self-centered and self-absorbed. As I remind church friends when we talk schools, we have always had school choice, it’s called elections.
Oct '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
@Harry Huntington: Oh yes, since elections never lead to minority repression! Why, fascist states in Europe and Jim Crow had nothing to do with democracy!
I'm being sarcastic, obviously. You are, however, missing the point. My family has a lot of experience with public school administrations. I never went to public school beyond kindergaton; didn't have the opportunity due to genetic differences that were simply not understood back then.
My parents did experiment with charter schools, and my mom even served on a local school board. Do you know what happened?
The liberal california secratary of education fined the charter for violating a regulation before it even existed.
You are nothing more then an intolerant bigot, like most other self-important "liberals".
Oct '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
Gah. This is a sensitive topic for me.
I'm sick of self-important liberals, who from a perch of bigotry pass judgement on the horrible, racist pigs who disagree with them.
I remember a two-connection flight I had once, where in one plane I sat behind a "liberal" and in the other a young group of Texans. Guess which flight was more open-minded and tolerant then the other. I dare you.
Honestly, we need a reckoning of liberal oppression. At some point they have to admit they've made mistakes too, bad ones. Not all criticism is from elitist, uneducated pigs; some of it is from victims.
Edited on Dec 14, 2010 at 8:38pmOct '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
Oh and to answer Peter's question, I've wondered that too. I'm not a transgenderphobe, but I never understood the grouping together. For that matter, if I were an average transgendered (a real one, not a dramaqueen) I wouldn't like it either.
Speaking from the inside (as someone who is bi), LGBT culture at times is so nasty, so hideous, most "LGBT" people are excluded from it. Or at least, I've met more gay men who stayed out of "gay culture" then who were inside of it.
Also one of my sensitive topics. Any nonextreme non-heterosexual group hides in the shadows. Not all of us feel strictly defined by sexuality, you know.
Jul '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
Harry Huntington:
Why are so called government schools actually bad? Because conservative and Christian parents refuse to take the social risks necessary to fight to make government schools better. When you see Goliath and his Philistines, you turn tail and run.
Right... because any decent conservative uses his children to prove a political point.
It's too bad that the public schools in my neighborhood are terrible, I wish they weren't. But if you think I'm going to sacrifice my kids' opportunities over the success, or failure of public education, you're an adolescent.
I send my kids (well the boy is 1, but he'll go the same route as his sister) to a Catholic school because it's better.
You can call it running away if you wish. But you're wrong about that too.
I want my kids to be capable of dealing with the sharper Philistines. The only way they'll have a chance is if they actually know stuff.
Good luck pitching knowledge of traditional academic subjects at an urban school board meeting. That's not sarcasm; I wish you well.
Experiment with your kids. I hope it works.
Nov '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
Layla, you prove my point with your behavior.
But Harry, while I appreciate your lengthy response and the thought that you've obviously given this important issue, I think you missed my point entirely (or you'd have been much angrier with me ;).
I really am involved, I promise. I vote in every election and attend public meetings; heck, I've even been a lunch buddy to underprivileged children. I've also been very involved in education itself: I have a master's degree in education (for whatever that's worth, which ain't much) and a teaching certificate. I've been in education research and was an editor for the leading K-12 educators' periodical (Educational Leadership, if you know it).
Palaeologus made my first point better than I did: I'll continue to work for change and improvement--but I'm not going to leave my kids in a subpar educational environment while I do it.
Pseudo made my second--and, I would have thought, more inflammatory--point: American public schools were fashioned after the Prussian model and with an end in mind that is diametrically opposed to the traditional, classical end of schooling.
May '10
Re: Why I Can't Stomach "Government Schools"
Pseudodionysius
FeliciaB
Pseudodionysius: The so called “government schools” exist in their present form
I think you would find if a revealing exercise to research how compulsory state schooling came about, why it came about, and where it came about. I would say more, but cat has my tongue. · Dec 14 at 8:16am
Okay, you've got my attention. How, why and where? · Dec 14 at 9:55am
Well, you have to start with Horace Mann and the Prussian schools, so I would start with Separating School and State. · Dec 14 at 10:43am
I shall educate myself as soon as I finish the Christmas toys manufacturing process.