Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
(This picture has little to do with the subject, but... hey, why not?)
Rob Long sets us up a bomb on the main feed by asking why Asians aren't already Republicans. Then he quotes Charles Murray, he of the Bell Curve and Coming Apart fame, who thinks the reason is because the Republican brand is dominated by social conservatives:
This time I will explicitly offer a broader argument and then give the numbers. My thesis is that the GOP is in trouble across the electoral board because it has become identified in the public mind with social conservatism. Large numbers of Independents and Democrats who are naturally attracted to arguments of fiscal discipline, less government interference in daily life, greater personal responsibility, and free enterprise refuse to vote for Republicans because they are so put off by the positions and rhetoric of social conservatives, whom they take to represent the spirit of the “real” GOP.
I use Asian-Americans as an example of how powerfully this antipathy can alienate a naturally conservative voting bloc. Let it be clear: The causal link with social conservatism is asserted here, not proved. But the GOP had better take the hypothesis seriously.
And in the comments following Rob Long's post, various theories are floated by distinctly non-"Asian" folks, ranging from the idea that we're Confucianists, that we're all about illegal immigration, and so on.
Look, I can't speak for all "Asian-Americans" (a term fraught with peril, as we will shortly discuss), but having been a raging Marxist, and then a stereotypical Left-Progressive, and then a sorta-confused-squish-center-right and finally (so far) a "radical" Tea Party conservative ... I'll offer some thoughts here as to why "Asian-Americans" are not Republicans.
1. There Ain't No Such Thing as an Asian-American
The first point that must be made is that there is no such creature as an "Asian-American", at least not yet. I am a Korean-American. My wife is Chinese-American. My kids are Chorean-Americans. Neither of us know jack diddly squat about Vietnamese culture or language.
Confucianism is an important cultural element ... for Northeast Asians, such as Chinese, Koreans, and to some extent, Japanese. I have no idea whether Indians, Pakistanis, Thai, Cambodians and Bangladeshis are influenced at all by Confucius -- but I'm going to lean towards No.
Barkha Herman asked in the comments whether Nikki Haley and Bobby Jindal are not Asians.
As the term is used here in the U.S., as opposed to in the UK, the answer is no. Sorry, you can try to be PC about it, but that's just the truth. No Indian walks into a Korean restaurant and feels at home; no Japanese guy goes to a Pakistani grocery to buy his miso.
So that's #1. There's no such thing as an "Asian-American", although the political forces of both Left and Right would dearly love to create such a thing. (I had raging fights with my school back in my university days, protesting the idea of "Dean of Asian-American Students".)
To the extent, then, that Murray or Rob Long or most folks think about "Asian-Americans", they really mean the dominant Northeast Triad of China, Japan, and Korea. (In Houston and SoCal, Vietnamese would be the 4th, but don't forget the large numbers of Viet-ching, i.e., Vietnamese of Chinese descent).
For example, all of the stats about success in education did not apply all that well to Southeast Asians (Vietnamese, Cambodians, Filipinos, Hmong, etc.) which caused all sorts of issues for "Asian-Americans" talking about stereotypes.
2. So Let's Talk about the Northeast Triad
Confining myself then to the Northeast Triad, which I know best, I do think Charles Murray makes an excellent point. But I think he misses the larger operating principle. (I think I'll call the NE Triad - Chinese, Japanese, and Korean -- by the term "Asian-American" since that's what most of y'all would think anyhow.)
It isn't that the Republican brand stands for Bible-thumping, anti-abortion, gay-bashers ... as much as it is that the Republican brand stands for stupidity. Again, this is a stereotype that is ludicrously inaccurate, but there's a reason why George W. Bush and Sarah Palin were attacked so viciously as being unintelligent. Why Richard Mourdock (whom I've met, and is a very thoughtful, very intelligent man) and Todd Akin were attacked not just as sexist, but as stupid and ignorant.
Now, speaking from personal experience, the distinguishing feature of Asian-American culture is the degree of importance we attach to academic achievement (which, by the way, is distinct from intelligence or common sense). There is literally no profession that is more revered than that of college professor. My entire childhood and teenage years were devoted to getting into the right college, and after that, the pressure was to become a professor of some sort or another. My parents were distinctly disappointed when I chose to go to law school instead of pursuing a Ph.D.
So reverence for teachers and professors is something that was/is very much stressed in Asian cultures. Imagine, then, what the influence of one's college professors at a place like, say, Princeton would be on an Asian-American young person.
Even if, however, one doesn't end up an academic, that whole attitude towards academic success, towards intelligence, towards credentials infuses our culture. It bleeds through outside of academic/intellectual circles. Two examples.
One of the few successful post-Boomer Asian-American authors is Chang-Rae Lee, who wrote, among others, Native Speaker and Aloft. My parents, uncles, and aunts told me about him. Dude is Exeter - Yale, and teaches at Princeton. They don't know Amy Tan, don't know Michiko Kikutani, but they do know the Yalie.
Why exactly do you suppose that Asian-American fans went nuts for Jeremy Lin? It wasn't just because he was ethnically Chinese. Hines Ward is ethnically Korean; Tiger Woods is ethnically Thai. No Asian-American went nuts over them. Hint: it has to do with where Linsanity got his BA.
3. It's Not the Social Conservatism; It's the Perception of Anti-Intellectualism
So I disagree with the esteemed Professor Murray. I don't think that evangelicals and social conservatives hurt the Republican brand with Asian-Americans. After all, have you ever stepped foot in a campus ministry meeting on our elite college campuses? Huge chunks of IVCF, CCC, and other evangelical student movements are Asian-Americans.
No, I think the problem is that very significant elements of the Republican "brand" have an anti-intellectual bias to them. For example, the "brand identity" of Catholic priests (especially Jesuits) is that of rigorous classical scholarship; the "brand identity" of evangelical ministers is televangelists with mega-churches and rock bands. I love me some Joel Osteen, but I don't think anyone confuses him for an intellectual.
Elements of the Republican Party, and the conservative movement in general, embrace American culture. Things like the NFL, NASCAR, bowling, hunting, fishing. All are wonderful, and there are brilliant men and women who love all of those things. But the patina of perception around such American culture is one of physical vs. intellectual, of body vs. brain.
And ... let's be honest here. There are some elements of the conservative movement that look down on the pinhead credentialed intelligentsia that come up with some of the most ridiculous stuff ever seen.
Personal anecdote time. A good friend of mine is a doctor, living in a deep red state. He's a second-generation Korean-American who graduated from Yale. He's an evangelical Christian, married to an evangelical Christian (who happens to be white, from Texas, and a doctor). His parents came here with $50 in their pockets, worked their butts off, and passed on the immigrant work ethic to him. He's fiscally conservative. He's socially conservative. He voted for Romney. That Bible-thumping, anti-gay, anti-abortion creationist that Murray rails against? That's him.
He's not a Republican. He voted for Obama in '08.
If you can't get that guy to be a Republican, then kicking out every social conservative won't make a whit of difference.
4. So, How To Appeal to Asian-Americans
That's all fine and dandy, but ... what do we Republicans do about this?
My answer, as the "target market", is to stop trying the divide and conquer ethnic tribal game of the Left. The Right is no good at it. And it goes against the very principles of liberty.
The Right is supposed to, at least, stand for the proposition that the only unit of society that truly matters and deserves special protection is the individual. It's the Left that stands for ethnic, gender, sexual, linguistic, whatever collectivism of one kind or another. Don't try to out-Walmart Walmart.
Instead, if we want to have our arguments taken seriously by Asian-Americans, send out our most credentialed, most intellectual spokespeople. Send out Paul Rahe. Send out John Yoo. Send out Richard Epstein. Have them defend the principles of liberty, principles of conservatism (well, at least libertarianism in the case of Epstein), while festooned with all the sheepskin from all the right institutions.
Stop thinking of "Asian-Americans" as some group that you need to send "one of our own" to speak to. Bobby Jindal is a fantastic guy, but he ain't "one of mine." Nikki Haley is awesome, but she doesn't "look like me." John Yoo does look like me, but don't expect him to be the spokesperson to the Filipino-American community, just because of his "Asianess" (since there's no such thing.) No, send us the white-as-the-driven-snow Peter Robinson of Stanford University.
Socially conservative views, policies, and philosophies may need to be promoted and defended on intellectual battlegrounds, rather than on "Well, the Good Book says so". It isn't as if there aren't intellectual giants in the SoCon world; it's just that the Republican brand doesn't incorporate them as much.
Recruit some new leaders out of the campus Christian movements. I guarantee that you'll find some "Asian-Americans" at our elite universities who can be groomed into real positions of influence.
And take back our campuses. Do whatever that takes.
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Comments:
Nov '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
I have one more thing to add since I think this thread is drawing together a lot of information that may be useful to our side. Bobby Jindal is a good fit for outreach to the Vietnamese community for one additional reason besides his educational credentials: he's Catholic, as are a large number of Vietnamese-Americans. And, of course, there's a very large VN-American community in Louisiana.
Nov '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
Pseudodionysius
Anecdotally, I can assure you that the spoiled offspring of wealthy overseas Asians are as annoying as our North American variety as they pay international tuition rates to attend our second, third and fourth string state funded universities. This thread has focused on the "high achievers" but there are lots of EMO slacker types with multi colored hair, Elvis jackets, and more earbuds than limbs wandering around suburbia in a stupefying trance while fumbling for the keys to Mom and Dad's BMW 3 series that they bought them as a Christmas present.
No, no. You're missing my point. My young people aren't spoiled or selfish: they're industrious, responsible, and successful. A few of them have an overlay of the ghetto culture that they have been raised in--punk hair styles or a fondness for hip-hop--but they're all pursuing higher education. And they are indoctrinated. They think that if they want to do good in the world, or for their "people," they should do social work and advocate against racism.
Sep '12
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
This is a tangent from TheSophist's excellent post, but I just want to point out a problem that Republicans have when trying to present themselves as different from the anti-intellectual stereotype they are presumed to possess. The media will not let them.
I recall a news interview, 60 minutes or some such, profiling Bobby Jindal, who has been mentioned a bit in this thread. Jindal, like a lot of young conservatives, had been campaigning hard on the fiscal problems of the current Administration. He put up charts, and talked about taxes, and marginal rates and such. What was the reporter interested in? The fact Jindal is a devout Catholic, as opposed to his Hindu family. The insinuation was, he was "acting white", and his fiscal discipline talk was just cover for a theocracy.
Paul Ryan, who is not Asian, but is a fiscal superstar. What did the press want him to talk about? Abortion.
(continued)
Sep '12
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
The Tea Party, which is not even a conservative movement, or even a Republican one, but a libertarian one, and one that has nothing to do with anti-intellectualism. How was it presented in the press? As a gathering of racist neanderthals who want to take away abortion.
The Republican Party is not anti-intellectual. It is currently, for better or worse, populist and anti-elitist. However, to the extent they try, Conservatives find it very difficult to get their message out through a media that insists on framing them in only one way.
Oct '11
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
Pseudodionysius
The slackers also value intelligence, even if they can't be botherer to do themselves. Hypocrisy is the respect vice pays to virtue.
TheSophist is right that giving an air of intelligence by exposing current intellectuals and cultivating newer talents on campuses would help, in addition of Crowder and Zo point that being cool is also important.
Edited on November 28, 2012 at 5:54pmJun '12
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
Tak Chui: Speaking as a Chinese living in Hong Kong, I can say that Chinese are most definitely not natural conservatives.
Chinese may be hard working, smart, socially conservative and all that, but they do not truly love or understand freedom. Freedom, as understood by conservatives, was never part of Chinese culture and history. Chinese may want a merciful and efficient government over a cruel and wasteful one, but they are not for small government. They certainly have nothing against big government per se. Chinese are missing the freedom loving part to become truly conservatives.
This may sound very politically incorrect, but Conservatism is very much a Western ideology. Wonderful and wise it may be it is just not for people of any culture and background. · 55 minutes ago
TC, I agree. We are often told growing up we can do whatever we want, live wherever we want, but we better fulfill our roles and duties towards our parents and our family . But things are changing, I notice talking to many younger Asians, they are relieved that the government will be taking care of their parents instead of themselves.
May '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
Reckless Endangerment: ........
I taught at a boarding school with many Chinese and Korean nationals who are likely to become American citizens in the future. ................. When they vote, they vote based on current perceptions of the parties. The GOP's harsh tone on immigration, plus the media/left's characterization of such, positions the GOP at a significant disadvantage starting off. It is extremely difficult to fight that first impression of which party is more "on your side."
.........
There is a story here, and the immigrant community is not ignorant of it. The fact is, for most of US history, at least the last 150 years, immigrants have not been looked upon favorably. Second, the worst anti-immigrant prejudice has been against Asians, particularly the Chinese. (I know someone extremely well whose doctoral thesis was all Asian immigration, we have exhaustively discussed this, including travel to E and SE Asian countries). The institutionalized bias against the ethnic Chinese lasted 75 years- in the law.
Thus, if I am a young Asian and what I hears is Mark Levin mouthing off about immigration to nodding Republicans, I run the other way.
Nov '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
It’s a little hard for me to understand any of this. A college campus is about the least intellectually stimulating place on the planet so I don’t see it as the place for conservatives to make a stand. Just standing it for very long would be hard enough.
Accusing conservatives of being anti-intellectual in contrast to the sheer silliness of liberalism is not a serious point of view. If this silliness appeals to Asians, and the last election testifies that it does, then trying to sell them on conservatism is a fool’s errand. It is Asians who should be chagrined by the outcome of the election which manifestly exposed the myth of superior Asian intelligence.
Edited on November 28, 2012 at 7:10pmMar '12
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
I take all your points, but our problem isn't that the conservative argument isn't intellectual enough, or that we just don't articulate enough or to the right crowd. The problem is that the debate is never taken seriously, or at least protrayed that way generally. Window-dressing, empty rhetoric and "feel-goodness" are the order of the day for the electorate. Our argument needs a COMMUNICATOR with all the attractive superficial qualities, intellect and personal skills that implies. We can technically win a fairly made made argument with the likes of Yoo, Epstein, and Lowe, but we end up losing the "masses" - of whatever ethnicity...
May '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
CoveredUp
How many Democrat creationists do you know? · 11 hours ago
The sooner smart alecks on our side stop this kind of intramural warfare, the better.
May '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
I'm still trying to catch my breath after reading "Viet-ching".
May '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
We have one of the largest Hmong communities in the US here in the Twin Cities; the story illustrates the problem. Hmong (somewhat like the Ka'Ren and even the Kurds) are and generally have been persecuted minorities wherever they have gone. They were certainly not the predominant peoples among the Han in Southern China.
Second- when the Hmong came to the US, they were resettled and supported by liberal social service agencies, such as mainline (i.e., liberal) Protestant churches- at the same time as Republicans were advocating for budget cuts. Cutting government budgets is not a bad thing, but the combination of circumstances leaves an impression with the immigrants.
One side brings food or a check, the other side says to stop wasting money on this sort of thing; which party would you support under these circumstances if you were the immigrants? I don't say that they are right, just that this shouldn't be surprising.
Aug '12
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
Great post and discussion. This is why I subscribed.
Sep '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
Lucy Pevensie
No, no. You're missing my point. My young people aren't spoiled or selfish: they're industrious, responsible, and successful. A few of them have an overlay of the ghetto culture that they have been raised in--punk hair styles or a fondness for hip-hop--but they're all pursuing higher education. And they are indoctrinated. They think that if they want to do good in the world, or for their "people," they should do social work and advocate against racism. · 2 hours ago
It doesn't sound like we disagree at all. Regardless of country of origin, economic strata or work ethic, from top to bottom, Asian immigrants absorb the ethos of the culture they're exposed to. The high achievers have simply absorbed the utilitarian view of higher education that predominates in North America, modelled on late 19th century German research universities (or multi versities to be more accurate).
They have absorbed the Welfare State ethos of Wilson-Roosevelt-Johnson-Obama and simply maximize their personal utility within those constraints.
Sep '12
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
Duane Oyen,
Well, we might as well give up then. If immigrant groups are incapable of discerning between protests against legal and illegal immigration, and opposition to the latter will only ever lead to electoral defeat, and anyone and everyone will always vote for bigger hand outs rather than independence and self sufficiency, we might as well give up.
A country that does not defend its borders is not a country. A party that fails to live up to its core principles is not a party. Shut it down, turn out the lights, and let's all join the line for the free stuff as long as it lasts.
Edited on November 28, 2012 at 7:58pmMay '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
The elephant in the room which I haven't heard discussed much yet is the simple fact that... Democrats reach out to these groups specifically, early and frequently, while Republicans tend not to, or to do it much less. I've seen this in different immigrant communities.
As a result, groups of immigrants who as someone else pointed out, are often young citizens and may not have the background to know the history and contrasts between the two dominant political philosophies of this country, naturally respond with favor to those who pay attention to them.
Most of you seem to think that targeted community outreach to minority groups is somehow either racist or pandering. Why? Politics is sales. We need to sell our product! We should be going to each and every group, including all and excluding none. We don't have to change our product, but probably will need to change how we sell it for each community. Ultimately, it involves pointing out to Asians, blacks, Hispanics, and whites why conservative values are better for them. Again, we might have to tailor the message, but that doesn't have to mean changing the substance.
Sep '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
Republicans tend not to, or to do it much less.
Two words: Jack Kemp.
May '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
Salamandyr: Duane Oyen,
Well, we might as well give up then. If immigrant groups are incapable of discerning between protests against legal and illegal immigration, and opposition to the latter will only ever lead to electoral defeat, and anyone and everyone will always vote for bigger hand outs rather than independence and self sufficiency, we might as well give up.
A country that does not defend its borders is not a country. A party that fails to live up to its core principles is not a party. Shut it down, turn out the lights, and let's all join the line for the free stuff as long as it lasts. · 1 minute ago
Edited 1 minute ago
Pointing out that there is a long history behind this means that we refuse to defend the border? Anti-Chinese immigration laws, exclusively and specifically uniquely directed against one ethnic group are irrelevant to the issue here? Your post strikes me as a pure non sequitur.
Tone matters. We can defend/seal our borders and preserve free markets at the same time as we stop all the inflammatory nativist rhetoric of Tancredo and Krikorian, as spouted by Levin.
May '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
Pseudodionysius:Republicans tend not to, or to do it much less.
Two words: Jack Kemp. · 6 minutes ago
Can you explain this? I am young enough that it doesn't mean anything to me. Yes, I have a bit of an idea who Jack Kemp was, but was there something about him that specifically relates to this discussion?
Sep '10
Re: Why "Asians" Aren't Republicans: Response to Rob Long & Charles Murray
Chris Deleon
Pseudodionysius:Republicans tend not to, or to do it much less.
Two words: Jack Kemp. · 6 minutes ago
Can you explain this? I am young enough that it doesn't mean anything to me. Yes, I have a bit of an idea who Jack Kemp was, but was there something about him that specifically relates to this discussion? · 3 minutes ago
Rob Long posted on this topic awhile back.