Why Are Firefighters So Great?
This article about a joint Turkish-French firefighter training program reminded me of a question I've long wondered about. Now, you might puzzle at this part:
Emin Pehlivanlı, the fire chief, said each country’s fire department had its own way of fighting a fire.
The French give a lot of importance to saving lives, according to Pehlivanlı ...
That phrasing might prompt you to wonder--what exactly is the Turkish priority in fighting a fire?
But in fact, I think this is just badly written, because from what I've seen, the Istanbul fire department is amazingly good. I think they're ranked third-best in the world. (I'm not sure who took the First and Second prizes.)
Last year, I watched them save my entire neighborhood from going up in flames. That video doesn't do what happened justice--my attention was more on the fire than the cinematography--but it shows you a hint of it. From the second someone shouted "Fire!" to the arrival of the fire trucks, no more than 90 seconds elapsed. They were obviously well-trained, well-equipped, totally professional, and above all, extraordinarily brave. They risked their lives without hesitating to save the people inside. (And so did several of those people on the street, by the way. There was some debate afterwards about who the primary heroes were. From what I saw, there was just a lot of heroism.)
This incident came directly on the heels of several encounters I'd had with other branches of the local government that were, shall we say, less than impressive. The difference was very striking. And this raises an interesting question. Why is it that around the world, fire departments provide better services than other branches of municipal government? This seems to be true everywhere--New York after September 11 is the obvious example.
We all know that comparably-paid government employees in other fields tend toward complete incompetence; that's why we don't want health care in their hands.
Putting aside all philosophical questions about libertarian firefighting, what's up with the culture of firefighters? Why are they so magnificent?
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Oct '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Claire Berlinski, Ed.:
Putting aside all philosophical questions about libertarian firefighting, what's up with the culture of firefighters? Why are they so magnificent? ·
It's the same culture of excellence that you get with any paramilitary type organization that revolves around the shared experience of mortal danger. It starts with the initial training experience (a police academy in my case since I'm a former police officer), where you are put together with a diverse bunch of people in a very stressful environment and you struggle as a team to graduate. You then go onto your operational role fighting fires, fighting crime or fighting wars which becomes the ultimate team building experience.
You are pushed to excel certainly by the mission (Thatcher would appreciate this line of work, Claire. There Is No Alternative but victory when the chips are down and you are fighting for the lives of your team, the public and yourself), but you also excel because you can't stand the thought of letting down your buddies.
Nov '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Unlike a lot of government jobs, firefighting is full of fun guy stuff. Firefighters get to drive large, fast, bright trucks and spray lots of water of big fires. That beats shuffling papers and doing most of other stuff that most government workers do. When people have fun at their jobs for the most part they do those jobs well.
Another contrast between most government workers and firefighters is that firefighters primary mission is to do work that everybody appreciates. Much government work involves sticking noses in places where they don't belong or telling folks that they have to re-do this or that before it can be filed. Firefighters save property and lives. Who can't help but love that?
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Yes, certainly. I asked a friend here, or an acquaintance, really, in the police force about this shortly after that happened. He agreed that the firefighters were magnificent, then added, rather wistfully, that of course it must be nice to do a job in which everyone loves you.
Aug '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
In view of the upcoming Thanksgiving holidays, it's probably a good idea to warn folks against the improper procedures of deep-frying Turkey. But you're saying it's hard to burn it as well ? Well, let's move on to the potatoes then.
Oct '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
It's the one branch of government that has never done anything bad to you. Cops can be rude to downright mean and are the issues of tickets and the like - plus police corruption can be a serious issue making people dislike them. Other government workers are, as mentioned, incompetent to the extreme (or fairly competent at throwing taxes at you). Firefighters just want to save your life.
May '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
What's even more remarkable about firefighters is that they include volunteers.
I agree that it boils down to the fact that a firefighter's essential job is to save lives, often at greater personal risk and facing an instinctive fear of fire. My hat also goes off to police and EMS folks, who save lives every day.
Jul '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Part of the reason is that firefighters provide a service that is not only necessary and heroic, but also uncomplicated. This is not to say that fighting a fire is easy in a technical sense, but it is fairly straightforward. Fire bad, put it out. People trapped inside, save them. The metrics of success and failure are stark. Nobody worries afterward about whether the fire's rights were violated.
Cops, by contrast, can intervene in a situation, handle everything the right way, and still have everyone involved end up hating us.
May '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Err, why are teachers so vain and sneering? Why are climatologists consistently wrong? The easiest answer: they self-select. Not as if we draft them.
Like when anyone asks "why are you such an idiot?" my usual response is "heredity". Which I also completely ripped off.
Jun '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Claire, I'd be interested in knowing how Turks generally deal with the avoidance of fire deaths in the first place. Do they follow strict fire prevention codes? Can Turks pay off the fire inspector so they don't have to install fire prevention equipment? In Russia, fire death rates are often 10 times higher than in Western countries. (I tried to find a stat for Turkey but gave up after an exhausting 3 minute search)
Everywhere you go in Russia, you see windows barred shut, fire hoses in apartment complexes constantly stolen, fire exits locked, etc. I'd be interested to know if you see those types of things occur in Turkey as well. As for the actual fire fighters in Russia, they are generally rated as neutral to positive versus the police whom they hate.
Edited on Nov 6, 2010 at 12:35pmOct '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
There is also quite a bit of volunteer law enforcement here in the United States and in other parts of the world. There are different types of reserve police officers ranging to unarmed officers with limited police authority all the way up to reserve police officers who have completed the exact same training as full time officers and have the same authority. It is very common for these officers to provide their own equipment and to work for free.
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
I'm laughing hysterically. Strict fire prevention codes? I'm not sure there are any fire prevention codes, or if there are, they're just one of those many laws that have been put on paper to please the EU but have no relationship to reality. The doors in schools don't swing out--a simple measure that would save countless lives in a fire or an earthquake. Finding stats on anything here is almost impossible; when you find them, they're probably unreliable. The lack of a culture of safety--or even common sense--is one of the most striking things about Turkey. No seat belts. No earthquake drills. No hardhats. ...
May '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Why are firefighters so great? Because they're hot.
May '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Firefighting has simple, concrete, incontrovertible objectives. That helps a lot.
What is/are the objectives of "education?" Is education about Aristotle or is it about you? Undergraduates, please debate that question...
Jun '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Yes, I know, over-cautious question! Sounds like they're worse than Russia. The doors not swinging out was one of my biggest frustrations there. Seeing government buildings everywhere with bars on the windows with big padlocks certainly explained a lot to me about laws versus reality.
BTW, I did a search "fire deaths turkey" and barely found anything except a link on YouTube. It seems that 20,000 turkeys were killed in a fire. Not quite what I was looking for.
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
I'm laughing hysterically. Strict fire prevention codes? I'm not sure there are any fire prevention codes, or if there are, they're just one of those many laws that have been put on paper to please the EU but have no relationship to reality. The doors in schools don't swing out--a simple measure that would save countless lives in a fire or an earthquake. Finding stats on anything here is almost impossible; when you find them, they're probably unreliable. The lack of a culture of safety--or even common sense--is one of the most striking things about Turkey. No seat belts. No earthquake drills. No hardhats. ... ·
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Well, no--they're hot because they're so great.
Sep '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Well, no--they're hot because they're so great. · Nov 7 at 3:36am
This is like a strange inversion of a Bud Light commercial.
Jun '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Publius
Claire Berlinski, Ed.:
Putting aside all philosophical questions about libertarian firefighting, what's up with the culture of firefighters? Why are they so magnificent? ·
You are pushed to excel certainly by the mission (Thatcher would appreciate this line of work, Claire. There Is No Alternative but victory when the chips are down and you are fighting for the lives of your team, the public and yourself), but you also excel because you can't stand the thought of letting down your buddies.
Hard to add anything to that, Publius. You can love a job because it is just so damn hard that just being able to do it, and to be in the ranks of others that do it, is supremely satisfying. .
Old military joke: Civilian says to paratrooper -- "You must like jumping out of airplanes." , "No," responds the paratrooper, "I hate it," Civilian,"Then why do you do it?" Paratrooper, "Because I like being around guys that like to jump out of airplanes."
BTW: Recommendation -- Report from Engine Co 82 by Dennis Smith. Excellent portrayal of the day-to-day life of an NYC firefigher. Particularly good as an audiobook, you can smell the smoke.
Edited on Nov 7, 2010 at 5:58amNov '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Amen and amen! (Full disclosure: Firefighter's wife here.)
What's very interesting is that the culture of the FD is all about suppression--but in most jurisdictions, the vast majority of calls are EMS. And believe me, EMS is *rough* in ways that suppression isn't: paperwork, demeaning hospital staff, the--excuse my bluntspeak--crazies you pick up on a regular basis, lack of support within your own department, running back-to-back calls round the clock (calls that generally last much longer than suppression calls unless you're talking about an actual working fire), returning to the local nursing home several times in a DAY to put Granny back in bed, etc. And aside from your basic cardiac arrest or something similar, the metrics of success and failure mentioned above are somewhat less...clear-cut. My heart goes out every day to the fire laddies (and lasses) running those medic units.
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Well, no--they're hot because they're so great. · Nov 7 at 3:36am
Jun '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Layla: Amen and amen! (Full disclosure: Firefighter's wife here.)
What's very interesting is that the culture of the FD is all about suppression--but in most jurisdictions, the vast majority of calls are EMS. And believe me, EMS is *rough* in ways that suppression isn't: paperwork, demeaning hospital staff, the--excuse my bluntspeak--crazies you pick up on a regular basis, lack of support within your own department, running back-to-back calls round the clock (calls that generally last much longer than suppression calls unless you're talking about an actual working fire), returning to the local nursing home several times in a DAY to put Granny back in bed, etc. And aside from your basic cardiac arrest or something similar, the metrics of success and failure mentioned above are somewhat less...clear-cut. My heart goes out every day to the fire laddies (and lasses) running those medic units.
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Well, no--they're hot because they're so great. · Nov 7 at 3:36am
Nov 7 at 10:11am
Excellent post, Layla. Welcome to the conversation.
Nov '10
Re: Why Are Firefighters So Great?
Pilgrim
Excellent post, Layla. Welcome to the conversation. · Nov 7 at 1:19pm
Gee, thanks, Pilgrim! :-)