Where Does God's Authority Come From?
While recently trying to formulate a question to ask God, I was thinking something along the lines of asking if what is done in his name is what he wants done, or if the Bible was recorded correctly or interpreted correctly.
But these questions all rest on the assumption of divine authority. If God exists, what gives him the right to issue commandments, in essence, to command me? What is the source of his authority to issue laws?
Is it because he created the universe and all existence? If he did, does that entitle him to tell everyone everywhere what to do for all time? Is this some form of ownership? If he created me, does God have property rights over me? Am I his property?
And where does God get the authority to punish me or anyone else for breaking his rules? Where did I agree to his punishment system?
These are all just flowing thoughts, but they all rest on that main question: Where does God's authority come from?
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May '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
How many readings of the Whole Megillah do you have under the belt? Have you helped to write out a Torah scroll yet?
I'm asking because I associate those activities (and a love of John Coltrane, as the only person I now know who studies Talmud is a Coltrane fan and a translator of Herodotus) with people who know their Talmud.
Group Captain Mandrake
Edward Smith:
To the extent that anyone can know them (Talmud, anyone?)
May I help? · 5 minutes ago
Oct '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
God
Jun '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Brian Watt
So, let me get this straight - I am compelled to believe that God is Love, Justice and All-Merciful but if I find this less than reasonable and offensive to my logic then I run the risk of roasting in torment in the flames of eternal damnation. Makes perfect sense. Could I settle for watching endless reruns of Gilligan's Islandor My Mother The Car? · 20 minutes ago
All sins are pardonable except the unpardonable sin of rejection. Not my law, it's God's law. It's like gravity Brian. What goes up must come down, if you insist on rejecting the law and jump out of a tower, it won't be a pretty sight.
Edited on January 15, 2013 at 5:41amSep '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Edward Smith: Is Rape about the Gender of the Rapist? Or the Victim? Or is it about forcing oneself sexually on someone else.
There are passages in the Old Testament that are much more clear about Homosexuality than the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Although some of them are actually about Prostitution, sanctified by the priests of False Gods, who also demanded that people sacrifice their own children.
And yes, there are pits filled with the charred bones of infant children in the ruins of cities where Baal and Moloch were worshiped.
Michael Hinton
But they were dudes, man! Dude messengers from God! · 0 minutes ago
4 minutes ago
Sorry, I didn't mean to get a response. I agree with you and thought it was a was an apt statement.
Nov '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Edward Smith: How many readings of the Whole Megillah do you have under the belt? Have you helped to write out a Torah scroll yet?
I'm asking because I associate those activities (and a love of John Coltrane, as the only person I now know who studies Talmud is a Coltrane fan and a translator of Herodotus) with people who know their Talmud.
I thought you were looking for a quotation in Talmud, which is why I asked if I could help.
As to your questions above, what do you mean by "the Whole Megillah"? I'm also not sure how I could help write a Torah scroll when I'm not a qualified sofer.
Jul '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Nobody ain't going to convince Fred Here at Ricochet.
Fred will not be convinced by anyone from Ricochet.
Fred is Ricochet's TMZ
Nov '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Jimmy Carter: Nobody ain't going to convince Fred Here at Ricochet.
Fred will not be convinced by anyone from Ricochet.
Fred is Ricochet's TMZ · 1 minute ago
Its funny, for a guy who doesn't believe in God, Fred sure does post about Him alot...
Jun '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Joan of Ark La Tex
Brian Watt
So, let me get this straight - I am compelled to believe that God is Love, Justice and All-Merciful but if I find this less than reasonable and offensive to my logic then I run the risk of roasting in torment in the flames of eternal damnation. Makes perfect sense. Could I settle for watching endless reruns of Gilligan's Islandor My Mother The Car? · 20 minutes ago
All sins are pardonable except the unpardonable sin of rejection. Not my law, it's God's law. It's like gravity Brian. What goes up must come down, if you insist on rejecting the law and jump out of a tower, it won't be a pretty sight.
Far too much gravity and not enough levity in this discussion...and that really burns me up.
Nov '11
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Brian Watt
Joan of Ark La Tex
All sins are pardonable except the unpardonable sin of rejection. Not my law, it's God's law. It's like gravity Brian. What goes up must come down, if you insist on rejecting the law and jump out of a tower, it won't be a pretty sight.
Far too much gravity and not enough levity in this discussion...and that really burns me up. · 1 minute ago
See, for those of us who see eternal issues at stake, it's hard to see levity as appropriate to the discussion. It doesn't mean we've lost our sense of humor, and doesn't mean we can't be gracious, but, from our perspective, it's nothing to joke about.
May '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
I used the wrong phrase.
I mean the obligation of all devout Jews to read through the full Torah. I think there is even a set time period to have read it through. Then you start over again.
But I think I have that wrong too.
Group Captain Mandrake
Edward Smith: How many readings of the Whole Megillah do you have under the belt? Have you helped to write out a Torah scroll yet?
I'm asking because I associate those activities (and a love of John Coltrane, as the only person I now know who studies Talmud is a Coltrane fan and a translator of Herodotus) with people who know their Talmud.
I thought you were looking for a quotation in Talmud, which is why I asked if I could help.
As to your questions above, what do you mean by "the Whole Megillah"? I'm also not sure how I could help write a Torah scroll when I'm not a qualified sofer. · 1 minute ago
May '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
The question of God's authority may be more important than that of His existence, because the predominant reason people desire a God is for moral instruction. But by the nature of morality, appeals to authority - human or supernatural - cannot work.
If God has some independent ground for His moral injunctions, than that ground can be explained without reference to God. But if God does not have an independent ground for His moral injunctions, then the appeal to supernatural authority is no more a basis for morality than the appeal to human authority. (Plato's Euthyphro: "Is the pious (τὸ ὅσιον) loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?")
Most believers in religion opt for the second horn of the dilemma: X is good because God says so. Whatever floats your boat, but then believers cannot in good faith posit Religion as the alternative to supposedly nihilistic atheism; arbitrary, supernatural whims can no more support an objective morality than arbitrary, human whims.
The way out is through the first horn; locate the natural facts that ground objective morality, which both rational people and any God worth His salt could appreciate.
Dec '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Joseph Stanko
I'm not sure why so many are calling this an un-serious question. It's hardly anoriginalquestion, part of my point in citing Job and Milton was that believers have grappled with this question for thousands of years. But it's a very old and very important question.
And yes it has been answered by many great thinkers, but not everyone has read them, or had the benefit of teachers who could explain such deep thinkers. Don't forget the left has systematically dismantled Western Civ courses and exiled theology from the public schools. I never read a word of Augustine, Thomas, Newman, or Lewis in school.
So why not just answer the question rather than scolding the questioner?
Because unlike Job and Milton, Fred doesn't believe in God. And because his unbelief is intractable because he refuses to do his homework (still haven't watched Fr. Barron, have you Fred?) and he's living under the delusion that he has a level of understanding (reason) that the rest of us just don't have, when really he's placed an artificial limit on his ability to know God_by_rejecting_all_authority_not_his_own. It_is_not_an_honest_question.
Jun '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Leigh
Brian Watt
Joan of Ark La Tex
All sins are pardonable except the unpardonable sin of rejection. Not my law, it's God's law. It's like gravity Brian. What goes up must come down, if you insist on rejecting the law and jump out of a tower, it won't be a pretty sight.
Far too much gravity and not enough levity in this discussion...and that really burns me up. · 1 minute ago
See, for those of us who see eternal issues at stake, it's hard to see levity as appropriate to the discussion. It doesn't mean we've lost our sense of humor, and doesn't mean we can't be gracious, but, from our perspective, it's nothing to joke about. · 2 minutes ago
I am so sorry. No, really. No, I mean it. Really.
May '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Oh, leave him be!
Fred Cole gets up to mischief, and likes to stir up the pot (an essential activity, whether you are having a conversation or making Meat Sauce).
But as far as I can tell, he does no harm, and intends none either.
Western Chauvinist
Joseph Stanko
I'm not sure why so many are calling this an un-serious question. It's hardly anoriginalquestion, part of my point in citing Job and Milton was that believers have grappled with this question for thousands of years. But it's a very old and very important question.
Because unlike Job and Milton, Fred doesn't believe in God. And because his unbelief is intractable because he refuses to do his homework (stillhaven't watched Fr. Barron, have you Fred?) and he's living under the delusion that he has a level of understanding (reason) that the rest of us just don't have, when really he's placed an artificial limit on his ability to know God_by_rejecting_all_authority_not_his_own. It_is_not_an_honest_question. · 0 minutes ago
Nov '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Edward Smith: I used the wrong phrase.
I mean the obligation of all devout Jews to read through the full Torah. I think there is even a set time period to have read it through. Then you start over again.
But I think I have that wrong too.
No, you're quite right about this.
May '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
I'm glad. I am working from memory here.
Just out of curiosity, where do you stand on John Coltrane? And Herodotus?
I'm a Bessie Smith fan myself. And I like me some Django Reinhardt.
Group Captain Mandrake
Edward Smith: I used the wrong phrase.
I mean the obligation of all devout Jews to read through the full Torah. I think there is even a set time period to have read it through. Then you start over again.
But I think I have that wrong too.
No, you're quite right about this. · 0 minutes ago
Oct '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
To quote Walter Russel Mead:
Jun '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Brian Watt
I am so sorry. No, really. No, I mean it. Really. · 4 minutes ago
Brian, I have read everything you wrote on Ricochet in the last 6 months. God give us Free Will to choose and you choose the other way. It saddens me, and I am sure many others here on Ricochet who adore you. This is a serious matter because we don't know what can happen tomorrow to each one of us. Whatever turned you against God Brian, it isn't God. God is still God and God is still good. You and your family are constantly in my prayers.
Jun '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Have you seen Sweet and Lowdown? If so, what did you think of it?
Jun '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
God! It's not like He needs the emphasis, but I thought it polite. Or at least grammatically correct. Meh.