Where Does God's Authority Come From?
While recently trying to formulate a question to ask God, I was thinking something along the lines of asking if what is done in his name is what he wants done, or if the Bible was recorded correctly or interpreted correctly.
But these questions all rest on the assumption of divine authority. If God exists, what gives him the right to issue commandments, in essence, to command me? What is the source of his authority to issue laws?
Is it because he created the universe and all existence? If he did, does that entitle him to tell everyone everywhere what to do for all time? Is this some form of ownership? If he created me, does God have property rights over me? Am I his property?
And where does God get the authority to punish me or anyone else for breaking his rules? Where did I agree to his punishment system?
These are all just flowing thoughts, but they all rest on that main question: Where does God's authority come from?
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Oct '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Severely Ltd.
Fred Cole
Severely Ltd.:
As a thought experiment imagine that you're alone on an island, and God makes his reality convincing to you.
How would he do so? · 8 minutes ago
You know, I'm not sure. But considering we're taking about the creator of the universe, I'm going out on a limb and betting he could find a way. · 1 hour ago
Allow me to add something that is written. The voice would simply state out of the vapors · "I Am". At least that is the inferred method .
Jul '11
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
On your death bed, you will receive total consciousness. So you've got that going for you, which is nice.
Jul '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Classic!!
Nov '11
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Fred Cole
Well, at what point does a parent stop owning a child? Do they ever? Do they not?
You say he sustains, but its like parents sustaining their 30 something child? Are we forever infants in need of someone to spoon feed us mush?
That is not equivalent, as you perfectly well know. No, parents never own the child. God the Creator does. He delegates authority to the parents, for a little while.
Yes, compared to God, we are always children. Smaller and weaker and more helpless than children. No matter how brilliant or sophisticated or independent we may think ourselves. Everything you do which you think independent is dependent on God's creation: your own abilities, physical and mental, the abilities of others, the physical world around you.
Edited on January 15, 2013 at 3:32amJul '11
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Be cool. I've had a conversation and you need to sign up again. Oh, and we have a grail for you to find.
Psss, Fred, don't grovel, He hates groveling.
Jul '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
It has been a few decades since I read the Book front to back, but there have been at least four major covenants between Man and God under Christian doctrine. Adam & Eve fell under the first and broke it. A second was made with Abraham and his descendants. A third was made via Moses. And Jesus sealed the fourth, not just for the chosen people but for all the people of the world who join in. These were contracts accompanied with very specific expressions of how to foster a relationship with God.
There have always been those who opt out. There have always been those who would turn a covenant on its head to their own ends while seeming to govern themselves by it. Or pretend to speak for God for their own gain. Or erroneously interpret God's will. Obviously, authority is an element of these divine bargains, but there is also love, humility, love, law, love, and so on.
Oct '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
One of my favorite insights from our Jewish kabbalist brothers and sisters is that God is a verb.
One of my favorite insights from Lutheran theologian Paul Tillich is that God is not a being, but rather being itself.
One of my favorite representations of all of this is in "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory," when Wilder's Wonka has explained all the rules and, after her son suffers the consequences of breaking one, Mrs. Gloop insists Wonka "do something!" Wonka looks vaguely puzzled by this, and quietly says "Help. Police. Murder." The point being, choices have consequences, and Mrs. Gloop's request doesn't even make sense.
I submit that the question "So God calls the shots, eh?" doesn't even make sense.
Edited on January 15, 2013 at 3:25amOct '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
This is the perfect answer for a post like this. Just the right level of seriousness due a very un-serious question. You rang the bell on this one, Doc. 10 likes.
Oct '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
As a student of logic, language, and theology, I have to respectfully disagree. "Can God create a rock so big even He couldn't move it?" has no answer, accomplishing nothing other than to remind us that a sentence's being grammatically correct isn't sufficient to imbue it with meaning.
Edited on January 15, 2013 at 3:39amOct '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Thank you for the heartbreaking flashback to the end of "The Prisoner" episode, "Free For All." It's interesting to note that this episode was written and directed by, as well as starring, Patrick McGoohan, who was famously a devout Roman Catholic.
Oct '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
You're going to have to contend with the fact that one of the co-authors of The Anthropic Cosmological Principle went on to write The Physics of Immortality and The Physics of Christianity, and is now a confessing Roman Catholic.
Edited on January 15, 2013 at 3:54amSep '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Fred, if you really don't want to acknowledge God's authority over His Creation, you're welcome to create your own universe out of nothing, and follow your own rules there.
May '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Fred-
A few thoughts, more questions:
Choices do have consequences. If we chose the consequenses, the choices are much clearer. . . but not necessarily "better" from a worldly perspective. What do you value most?
Is there any absolute truth?
Be aware that your perspective on God is pretty much the view of yourself and of life.
What is God's true nature? Where do you go to find it?
Where did you come from? Why are you here? Where are you going after this life is over?
Why are there so many Christian churches/denominations? Are any fully correct? or are they all somewhat incomplete?
Sep '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Divine essence is absolute, eternal, unchangeable, and inseparable.
Such is God: Sovereignty, Righteousness, Justice, Love, Eternal Life, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Immutability, & Veracity.
I'm saddened to say that some Ricochetti have permanently damaged their credibility in this exchange. With others, it was nothing new! But so be it! We now know for whom some are speaking, and to what end. Duly noted, as is the judgement of the Moderators!
Jun '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
"I often get letters, quite frequently, from people who say how they like the programmes a lot, but I never give credit to the almighty power that created nature. To which I reply and say, "Well, it's funny that the people, when they say that this is evidence of the Almighty, always quote beautiful things. They always quote orchids and hummingbirds and butterflies and roses." But I always have to think too of a little boy sitting on the banks of a river in west Africa who has a worm boring through his eyeball, turning him blind before he's five years old. And I reply and say, "Well, presumably the God you speak about created the worm as well," and now, I find that baffling to credit a merciful God with that action. And therefore it seems to me safer to show things that I know to be truth, truthful and factual, and allow people to make up their own minds about the moralities of this thing, or indeed the theology of this thing." - David Attenborough
Aug '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
This whole thread illustrates what happens when the ignorant get to blog. I mean it is like Augustine or Thomas or Newman or CS Lewis had never written anything. Before you write a post so profoundly silly do yourself a favor a read a theology book. You could just listen to a Peter Kreeft podcast and be halfway home. At least someone on this thread had the good sense to quote Edward Feser. I think the editors should start realizing that if it were not for the podcasts this site would be in bad shape.
Jul '10
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Yeah, it's turning in to convertfred.com.
Nov '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
Paul Snively
Thank you for the heartbreaking flashback to the end of "The Prisoner" episode, "Free For All." It's interesting to note that this episode was written and directed by, as well as starring, Patrick McGoohan, who was famously a devout Roman Catholic. · 35 minutes ago
I don't see the flashback. Please explain.
Aug '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
God's authority comes from Himself. He is the Creator, and we are his creatures, having been given stewardship over His creation.
We have a problem, however. God is perfect and holy. He made the world to be perfect and holy. He made us to be perfect and holy. But, because our "first parents" chose disobedience, sin has entered creation, and everything has been corrupted.
In His love for us, He has provided a way for us to be reconciled with Him. All that He requires of you is to acknowledge and repent of your sinful ways, and to acknowledge and strive to yield to His authority.
The consequences of disregarding His authority are dire. When He brings all things to an end, there are only two places for your immortal soul to reside. You can either be united with Him, or not. If you cannot be made holy by recieving the gift of Grace, you cannot stay in His presence.
If you cannot be in His holy presence, the only other place for your immortal soul is in the place that He prepared for the angels who rebelled against Him, who are led by Satan.
Sep '12
Re: Where Does God's Authority Come From?
iWc: It amazes me that so far nobody seems to think the way I do on this.
It is simple: G-d has as much authority as YOU choose to give Him. This is theessentialcore of free choice within religion. If you accept the Torah is G-d's Word, then you can have a relationship with the Creator. If you do not, then you cannot.
I choose to be a Torah Jew. That means that I seek (and have) an amazing relationship with G-d. It enables me to be and do things that are unthinkable to most people.
But I am free to deny G-d's existence and authority and simply walk away. Indeed, I think that libertarianism is a key ingredient of what G-d wants from us: Freely Choose to do good! · 1 hour ago
Edited 1 hour ago
Very well put. After this mortal life, those who chose to believe and obey will live in God's presence, under God's rules. Those who chose other paths will live elsewhere, in a realm ruled by another who chose to reject God's authority.