When is it OK to Lie?
When you're a true believer in man-made global warming, obviously. If you lie under those circumstances (or commit identity theft or forge documents or try to sully the reputation of a think tank or its employees through smears leaked to the left-liberal press) you are not a bad person at all. You are a hero!
How do I know this? Because an expert says so in the Guardian. His name is James Garvey (author of a book called "The Ethics of Climate Change," so he must know his stuff, right?) - and he's discussing the affair known as Fakegate - or Gleickgate - in which well-known climate activist Peter Gleick used what you and I might consider underhanded, nay, downright immoral and unlawful methods to try to blacken the reputation of the Heartland Institute.
What Heartland is doing is harmful, because it gets in the way of public consensus and action. Was Gleick right to lie to expose Heartland and maybe stop it from causing further delay to action on climate change? If his lie has good effects overall – if those who take Heartland's money to push scepticism are dismissed as shills, if donors pull funding after being exposed in the press – then perhaps on balance he did the right thing. It could go the other way too – maybe he's undermined confidence in climate scientists. It depends on how this plays out.
Liberals: gotta love their sense of humor!
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Comments:
Mar '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Raw Prawn
Thank you for this example of moral relativism. I was not aware that the Heartland Foundation has its fangs buried deep in the government teat and uses public, as well as private, money to disseminate falsehoods to promote policies that necessarily involve the depression of quality of life for the great majority of humanity.
Except that moral relativism is in the eye of the beholder, and from the left's eye, a think tank trying to intentionally confuse the public and thus lead to the Earth as we know it is much worse than anything NPR could do. Aodhan puts his finger on it: their actions are justified based on their premises, it's just the premises which are wrong.
There is little difference between the ethics of the right and the left: both feel that lying and subterfuge can be justified for noble ends. The disagreement is about what those noble ends are.
Jun '10
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Hitler and Stalin: wasn't the "big lie" their thing? Looks some serious patent infringement taking place here by the warmists.
Feb '12
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Give me liberty- I think it maybe the other Islamic T.. a touch of the Tawriya's .. real creative lying.
May '10
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Islam is not the only system where this principle exists. There are a number of cultures/systems where the notion of a "lie" is defined as "deceiving a member of the 'good guys.'" The 'good guys' being my tribe member, my co-religionist, etc. The notion of always telling the truth to everyone regardless of personal consequences is pretty unique in principle and almost non-existent in practice.
Jun '10
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Revealing language: "What Heartland is doing is harmful, because it gets in the way of public consensus and action." Note that they don't say the views Heartland promotes are false or misleading, merely that they do not conform to the desired "consensus." Dissenting views must be crushed, one mustn't question the groupthink!
Feb '12
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Of concern in law enforcement are the well known factors surrounding the possibility of "entrapment". The trick is to put the potential transgressor in an artificial situation where he/she acts in a manner not different from how he/she would act were the stage not populated with undercover law enforecement personnel posing as something other than what they are. Many otherwise law abiding people can be encouraged to break the law under contrived circumstances.
Does anyone think that O'Keefe's targets were filmed in situations at all different from what they normally encounter in the course of their daily conduct? They are clearly seen to be unfazed by their surroundings and act in a manner revealing of their modus operandi. That's what is so damning.
The Heartland Institute reacted to a seemingly lawful request in a helpful manner. The result of their conduct in this artificial situation was exemplary and revealed no wrong doing whatsoever.
I would also point out that law enforcement should be chastened in those instances where they attempt to coerce an innocent person. At the very least, Gleick owes a sincere apology for his misguided presupposition as to Heartland's actions.
Feb '12
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Diane Ellis, Ed.: The trend I've seen lately of so-called ethicists espousing some of the most clearly unethical ideas (e.g. the defense in the Journal of Medical Ethics of "after-birth abortion") is really alarming.
This kind of rubbish should be met with derision and mockery, of course, but too many people seem to take these ideas seriously that mockery is rendered an insufficient tool to combat them. · 5 hours ago
Sadly, ignoring them... which would be the proper response... won't work either because of those they employ who also happen to hold political office.
Jul '10
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Ah, the Noble Lie – Defined by Plato and used throughout history in increasingly creative ways by governments and NGOs (including environmental NGOs and related groups) to justify their actions and promote their gospel. These ‘myths’ have become received wisdom by the MSM, thus furthering their influence in society.
AGW, nuclear power, and the prohibition of DDT are but three examples of their targets. Religious belief in the existence of AGW has resulted in economic chaos (and the moritorium on nuclear to a lesser extent), while the third has resulted in literally millions of deaths over the past several decades. Yet these groups continue to thrive, enabled by the Noble Lie.
Oh, and ‘consensus science’ meaning the science is settled to their way of thinking on these three? That term is an oxymoron.
Feb '12
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
And yet the Left (including the media) get such joy out of calling out anyone on the not-Left for any hint, nay, whiff! of anything un-ethical. What was that saying about a pot and kettle? Or the even better one about pulling the plank out of your eye before pointing out the speck in mine.
Being deceitful in your maneuvering to get to the truth is quite a bit more acceptable than simply making stuff up because you can't get the goods for real.
May '10
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Gleichschaltung uber alles?
Edited on March 1, 2012 at 5:14amMay '10
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
The Grauniad column makes much of Heartland's "secret funding", as if this was something sinister. And yet, as Heartland says on their website, this is the norm:
Apr '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
It's hardly new. In the early '80s I was writing abstracts of political and social science journal articles. The philosophy journals were full of efforts to create ethical or "moral" imperatives out of thin air. No God, no Nature; just exercises. They either started with baldly asserted claims by the individual and factitious distinctions, or attempted to justify something within the premises of some modern's system.
In a word: inhuman.
Mar '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Mendel
Raw Prawn
Thank you for this example of moral relativism.....
Except that moral relativism is in the eye of the beholder, and from the left's eye, a think tank trying to intentionally confuse the public and thus lead to the Earth as we know it is much worse than anything NPR could do. Aodhan puts his finger on it: their actions are justified based on their premises, it's just the premises which are wrong.
There is little difference between the ethics of the right and the left: both feel that lying and subterfuge can be justified for noble ends. The disagreement is about what those noble ends are. · Feb 29 at 2:30pm
Thank you for doubling down. My main point was that an organization using public money to spread lies to promote a set of policies that are very costly and unlikely to produce any worthwhile results has no right to privacy while a private organization using private money to expose the lies does. That is, if you are using the public's money, the public is entitled to know what you're doing.
Mar '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Good point. You might have added that when warmists use the word consensus they are issuing a coded threat that, if you publicly dissent, your integrity, intelligence, sanity, credit, and paternity will all be impugned, your tyres slashed, and your children beaten up in school.