When is it OK to Lie?
When you're a true believer in man-made global warming, obviously. If you lie under those circumstances (or commit identity theft or forge documents or try to sully the reputation of a think tank or its employees through smears leaked to the left-liberal press) you are not a bad person at all. You are a hero!
How do I know this? Because an expert says so in the Guardian. His name is James Garvey (author of a book called "The Ethics of Climate Change," so he must know his stuff, right?) - and he's discussing the affair known as Fakegate - or Gleickgate - in which well-known climate activist Peter Gleick used what you and I might consider underhanded, nay, downright immoral and unlawful methods to try to blacken the reputation of the Heartland Institute.
What Heartland is doing is harmful, because it gets in the way of public consensus and action. Was Gleick right to lie to expose Heartland and maybe stop it from causing further delay to action on climate change? If his lie has good effects overall – if those who take Heartland's money to push scepticism are dismissed as shills, if donors pull funding after being exposed in the press – then perhaps on balance he did the right thing. It could go the other way too – maybe he's undermined confidence in climate scientists. It depends on how this plays out.
Liberals: gotta love their sense of humor!
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Comments:
Jul '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
I have not lied since I quit dating.
Dec '10
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Utilitarianism: because getting your way really is that damn important.
Oct '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
The Donuts justify the means.
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
The trend I've seen lately of so-called ethicists espousing some of the most clearly unethical ideas (e.g. the defense in the Journal of Medical Ethics of "after-birth abortion") is really alarming.
This kind of rubbish should be met with derision and mockery, of course, but too many people seem to take these ideas seriously that mockery is rendered an insufficient tool to combat them.
May '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
What a perfect illustration of relativistic thinking!
Mar '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
It depends on how this plays out.
In other words, we won't know if the lie is a worthy lie until we know what effect it will have on our narrative.
How about credibility, Mr. Garvey? You figure you and your merry band of prevaricators will have any need of that? Probably not -- it's a bourgeois concept anyway.
Oct '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Diane Ellis, Ed.: The trend I've seen lately of so-called ethicists espousing some of the most clearly unethical ideas (e.g. the defense in the Journal of Medical Ethics of "after-birth abortion") is really alarming.
This kind of rubbish should be met with derision and mockery, of course, but too many people seem to take these ideas seriously that mockery is rendered an insufficient tool to combat them. · 1 minute ago
So how to combat them then ? It is kind of hard to maintain a straight face while someone is making and obviously twisted or silly argument.
What is even more interesting is that if Mr James Delingpole would even insinuate - I remember the post about the death threats which something similar- such kind of thing, all hell would break lose. So in a sense this ethicist is not providing an opinion, but merely stating the obvious : The cause is greater than truth and morals.
Feb '12
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Does anybody know of an equivalent quote from Lenin, Stalin, or Mao? I hope the Heartland people don't end up with icepicks stuck into them.
May '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Eric Rasmusen
Does anybody know of an equivalent quote from Lenin, Stalin, or Mao? I hope the Heartland people don't end up with icepicks stuck into them. · 1 minute ago
Where's Jonah Goldberg when we need him?
May '10
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Eric Rasmusen
Does anybody know of an equivalent quote from Lenin, Stalin, or Mao? I hope the Heartland people don't end up with icepicks stuck into them. · 1 minute ago
I'm afraid these people are so far gone that such a quote would be received as a compliment.
May '10
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Thank you James. I have read so much from you, and now listened to you as well. Brilliant. It is apparent that this movement to move governments around the world to the left is on the ropes, and I am thankful you are keeping up the fight.
Dec '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Situational ethics. All, but the very best, of us employ them from time to time. But the social-political left revel in them along the lines of an almost Babylonian orgy. They raise them to an art form. Moral relativism, how a culture “feels good” about its own suicide.
Mar '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
So according to the linked article, Gleick lied by posing as a member of the Heartland Institute to obtain a list of their donors.I agree that this tactic is highly unethical and that Gleick has made a mockery of any scientific contributions he or his peers have made and deserves to lose his job forthwith.
However, I fail to see how this is ethically any different from James O'Keefe's people using assumed Muslim identities to elicit embarassing quotes from an NPR exec. Both cases involve the same type of lying with the same end: exposing opponents' secrets. Yet I didn't hear much complaining on Ricochet about O'Keefe's tactics.
Both sides lie, cheat and steal to press their message. Just because your opponent might do it more often or underhandedly than you doesn't mean your [expletive] doesn't stink too.
Edited on February 29, 2012 at 9:00pmMar '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Brian
Eric Rasmusen
Does anybody know of an equivalent quote from Lenin, Stalin, or Mao? I hope the Heartland people don't end up with icepicks stuck into them. · 1 minute ago
I'm afraid these people are so far gone that such a quote would be received as a compliment. · 6 minutes ago
Unfortunately all too true. One has to only consider Mr. Stone opinioning:
Apr '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Islam has a word for this known as Taqiyya. Basically lying is acceptable if it protects you or moves forward your cause. Interesting how the two movements have so much in common.
Mar '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Mendel: So according to the linked article, Gleick lied by posing as a member of the Heartland Institute to obtain a list of their donors.I agree that this tactic is highly unethical and that Gleick has made a mockery of any scientific contributions he or his peers have made and deserves to lose his job forthwith.
However, I fail to see how this is ethically any different from James O'Keefe's people using assumed Muslim identities to elicit embarassing quotes from an NPR exec. Both cases involve the same type of lying with the same end: exposing opponents' secrets. Yet I didn't hear much complaining on Ricochet about O'Keefe's tactics.
Both sides lie, cheat and steal to press their message. Just because your opponent might do it more often or underhandedly than you doesn't mean your [expletive]doesn't stink too. · 4 minutes ago
Edited 3 minutes ago
His attempting to pass off a forged memo with the other documents he stole is I think rather the kicker that takes this incident over the top.
Apr '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
If you change "Gleick" to "US security agencies" and "Heartland Institute" to "Islamist militant" the Left's ends-justify-the-means attitude does an abrupt 180 deg. turn.
Apr '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Mendel: So according to the linked article, Gleick lied by posing as a member of the Heartland Institute to obtain a list of their donors.I agree that this tactic is highly unethical and that Gleick has made a mockery of any scientific contributions he or his peers have made and deserves to lose his job forthwith.
However, I fail to see how this is ethically any different from James O'Keefe's people using assumed Muslim identities to elicit embarassing quotes from an NPR exec. Both cases involve the same type of lying with the same end: exposing opponents' secrets. Yet I didn't hear much complaining on Ricochet about O'Keefe's tactics.
Both sides lie, cheat and steal to press their message. Just because your opponent might do it more often or underhandedly than you doesn't mean your [expletive]doesn't stink too. · 12 minutes ago
Edited 10 minutes ago
If it was just undercover work that would not be outrageous. He was pedaling false documents he claimed to have gotten undercover.
Jan '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
Mendel: So according to the linked article, Gleick lied by posing as a member of the Heartland Institute to obtain a list of their donors.I agree that this tactic is highly unethical and that Gleick has made a mockery of any scientific contributions he or his peers have made and deserves to lose his job forthwith.
However, I fail to see how this is ethically any different from James O'Keefe's people using assumed Muslim identities to elicit embarassing quotes from an NPR exec. Both cases involve the same type of lying with the same end: exposing opponents' secrets. Yet I didn't hear much complaining on Ricochet about O'Keefe's tactics.
Both sides lie, cheat and steal to press their message. Just because your opponent might do it more often or underhandedly than you doesn't mean your[expletive]doesn't stink too.
O'Keefe's involvement is deceptive just like Gleick's. But, really, the secrets exposed by O'Keefe were much more damaging/revealing than the out-in-the-open goals of a think-tank which hasn't bought into the misguided mob-like hysteria that human beings are the source of climate patters.
Apr '11
Re: When is it OK to Lie?
There is a difference between lying to get someone to do what she is not allowed to do in order to obtain what you are not entitled to get, and misrepresenting one's self in order to incline someone to be more candid than he would be otherwise.
To be explicit, I submit that there is nothing wrong with lying. I take my cue from the Eighth Commandment, "Thous shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor". Bringing one's miscreant neighbor to justice is not acting against him, whether one does it through simple sworn testimony or through subterfuge. Garvey tries to make that defense, but the "justice" he invokes is just political preference that tries to beg the central question of whether catastrophic AGW is a clear and present danger.