When Did You Go Romney?
I realize that not all of us joined the Romney camp. Maybe we're going third party. Maybe we're not big on voting. Maybe we just can't get behind him yet. But as a center-right camp here, most of us have joined Team Romney.
And I'm curious what pushed you over the edge. I was thinking about this because a friend of mine remarked on something he read in Ben Domenech's The Transom today, explaining how he decided to go for Romney. The hook is a Michael Barone column giving examples of how President Obama has listened to his elite donors at the expense of good campaign strategy. There's his decision to support redefining marriage to include same-sex couples. There's his stance on Keystone. And there's this:
The second issue on which Obama seems to have been listening to his money-givers was the health insurance mandate requiring employers to pay for contraceptives and abortifacients.
Many rich liberals feel strongly that women's "reproductive rights" (actually, the right not to reproduce) are so vital that government must ensure they have free access to contraception, even though it is widely available and inexpensive.
That's one view. Roman Catholic bishops and leaders of Catholic institutions feel that such services are sinful and refuse to provide them. They cite the Constitution's guarantee of free exercise of religion, while the other side relies on what courts have called "emanations" and "penumbras" radiating from constitutional texts.
The political point is that, as polling suggests, most Americans don't like government forcing people to violate their religious convictions. That's in line with tradition in a country that exempted those with religiously based conscientious objections from military service in a war in which more than 400,000 Americans were killed.
My friend says that prior this mandate coming out, he was pretty sure he wouldn't vote for Romney. But President Obama's aggressive action pushed him right into the Romney camp as the best means for fighting onerous restrictions on religious freedom.
My friend is most definitely not an evangelical Christian, though he is religious. Still, Domenech's take on this column is apt:
But as Barone notes, the other reason Romney has brought everyone back into the fold is thanks to two decisions on the part of President Obama and his administration since the primary ended which struck directly at the constituency which functioned as the longest Romney holdout: evangelical Christians. Obama's decisions on marriage and the conscience mandate served as an immediate boost to Romney among the die-hard skeptics, the 'faith and freedom' holdouts who kept Rick Santorum's presidential campaign alive long past the point where it was pining for the fjords. My own opinion, as you know, is that Romney will have more problems with independents than conservatives – the former haven’t yet seen the coming thermonuclear negative ad deluge, but the latter follow the old Michael Kelly sandwich dictum at the ballot box. http://vlt.tc/bpb Romney can thank President Obama for reminding the evangelicals of that.
Even if you were already supportive of Romney, did Obama's own goals here make you more committed? Or what moved you?
- Comment (87)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (3)
Comments:
Oct '10
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
after pawlenty, daniels and christie eliminated themselves from the competition.
Oct '10
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
Hasn't every conceivable reservation about Romney been exhaustively explored by now? The time for naval gazing contemplation about whether folks can muster up enough enthusiasm to cast their votes for Mitt is over. If you have more than a passing interest in seeing Obama booted from office, you need to sit down and come up with 5 positive things you can comfortably say about Romney, because you need to be out there selling the Republican alternative.
Maybe someday conservatives will figure out how to persuade that perfect candidate they long to vote for to actually step up to the plate, but that's not the choice before us.
Mar '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
Larry Koler: ...
I'm still a little worried about Mitt's ability to go head to head with Obama's team. Chickening out early on the Jeremiah Wright issue (when he could have just kept quiet) is a warning bell for me. Two more like that and I will withdraw my support. But, I will still vote for him. · 16 hours ago
I had the same worries that Romney's ability to contend with Obama but so far I've been pleasantly surprised. My first reaction to Romney's repudiation of an ad campaign about Jeremiah Wright was dismay but I've reconsidered. Any one of Wright, Ayres or Rezko could have sunk Obama in 2008, had there been fair media coverage, but we've all passed a lot of water since then. Now, anything diverting attention away from what Obama has done since the 2008 election will probably help him.
Perhaps someone from Romney's team should repudiate a book, available on Kindle, written by a man claiming to have been one of Obama's gay lovers and telling how Obama, with assistance from Jeremiah Wright, murdered another gay lover who threatened to become a political liability.
Jun '10
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
Raw Prawn
My first reaction to Romney's repudiation of an ad campaign about Jeremiah Wright was dismay but I've reconsidered. Any one of Wright, Ayres or Rezko could have sunk Obama in 2008, had there been fair media coverage, but we've all passed a lot of water since then. Now, anything diverting attention away from what Obama has done since the 2008 election will probably help him.
Sorry, I vehemently disagree. We need the context. In order to project what Obama will do when he is not constrained by another election his character must be fleshed out for people. His close and intimate relationships with Wright and Ayers reveal the most about his character. It is this character issue that is the problem and it gives us the best way to prove to people why he cannot be trusted for another term.
Obama and the MSM can spin his 4 years as president. They are ready for that and they are really good at convincing uninformed people. But, we simply must not fall for the left's intimidation of our side on these Marxists in his closet. This is cowardly to let the left control the agenda.
Apr '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
For what it's worth, I think that this makes you the opposite of a bigot; my church (Greek Orthodox) is pretty big on the idea that being a heretic is not to believe something wrong, which would be a problem for all of us, but to cling to false beliefs in the face of truth.
If your experiences of Mormonism and of Mormons give you cause for concern, then you're right to take that into account. Just like we bellyache about the warning signs before the Fort Hood Islamic terrorism being ignored because people were too politically correct to risk profiling anyone, we should be willing to consider negative aspects of Mormonism.
I don't think that the specific concerns that you have are likely to find strong grounding as you explore the issue (although I could be wrong about this), but I don't think that caution is bigotry. If you were of the view that Mormons were universally unsuitable for high office and were uninterested in exploring the issue, that would make you a bigot, assuming your concerns were erroneous.
Apr '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
Larry Koler
Raw Prawn
.....Now, anything diverting attention away from what Obama has done since the 2008 electionwill probably help him.
Sorry, I vehemently disagree. We need the context. In order to project what Obama will do when he is not constrained by another election his charactermust be fleshed out for people. His close and intimate relationships with Wright and Ayers reveal the most about his character. It is this character issue that is the problem and it gives us the best way to prove to people why he cannot be trusted for another term.
Obama and the MSM can spin his 4 years as president. They are ready for that and they are really good at convincing uninformed people. But, we simply must not fall for the left's intimidation of our side on these Marxists in his closet. This is cowardly to let the left control the agenda. ·
I don't think that the reason Raw Prawn disagrees with you is necessarily cowardice rather than a principled taking of a different position, and believe it uncharitable to assume an ignoble motive. I do recognize that this view may be biased by my agreement with him.
Jun '10
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
James,
I have seen this too many times before with Republicans. They just can't get themselves to go after the Democratic Media Complex because the blowback is just too vicious. This is how the left keeps its stranglehold on this country -- bullying.
Mitt chickened out -- and he did it early to try and curry favor.
Prove me wrong. I admit that I don't have anything but a long string of dead bodies to convince me on this -- maybe Mitt will be different but I seriously doubt it. He needs to take on the caretakers of the sick system that is behind this country's soon approaching demise.
What we are asking Mitt to do is nigh on impossible -- to reverse these laws and policies and memes in government and in the country as a whole. It won't get done by a timid man.
When Mitt went after other Republicans he had the Complex behind him, helping him if anything. He needs to learn how to play hardball with the real opposing team.
Apr '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
Larry Koler: James,
I have seen this too many times before with Republicans. They just can't get themselves to go after the Democratic Media Complex because the blowback is just too vicious. This is how the left keeps its stranglehold on this country -- bullying.
Mitt chickened out -- and he did it early to try and curry favor.
Prove me wrong.
I can't prove that Raw Prawn and I do not hold our views out of cowardice, but I think that it is clearly possible to believe that we hold them through a good faith and uncoerced difference in opinion and hope that you might treat us as if we are arriving at the views through our claimed principles rather than on the basis of an ulterior motive.
There are no greater threats to Mitt's election than his faith. None. Sure, there's some benefit to attacking Obama on Obama's faith, but the benefit from that is trivial compared to the cost of opening that door. By delegitimizing and minimizing attacks on Obama's terrible faith, he protects the power of his future denunciations of Obama flavored bigotry against his faith.
Oct '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
James Of England
There are no greater threats to Mitt's election than his faith.
That statement is an insult to the American electorate, even considering its (our) demonstrated foolishness in supporting Obama.
The greatest threat to Mitt's election is his own self-proclaimed progressivism. Blaming religious prejudice for his problems is denial and self-delusion worthy of the left.
Jul '10
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
I will vote as I need to to retire the Obamanation. Anyone confusing that for being in some "camp" or convinced of the virtues of some candidate is sorely mistaken. The curative this nation requires to move away from the abyss is not being offered in this race.
We can debate forever whether the Tea Party failed the nation or the nation failed the Tea Party, but the Tea Party's work is not yet done.
I don't see Obama netting positive on the religion issue, unless we count secular religions whose sacrament are the unborn. He owns the slaughter of the innocents. Bumbling Barry has caused such pain and misery that that he will go down. Every clumsy, cynical, transparent maneuver to go all Joe Stalin to garner votes loses precious percentage points. And credibility.
Apr '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
Barfly
James Of England
There are no greater threats to Mitt's election than his faith.
That statement is an insult to the American electorate, even considering its (our) demonstrated foolishness in supporting Obama.
The greatest threat to Mitt's election is his own self-proclaimed progressivism. Blaming religious prejudice for his problems is denial and self-delusion worthy of the left. · 13 hours ago
Did you read the linked study?
Nov '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
James Of England
Barfly
James Of England
There are no greater threats to Mitt's election than his faith.
That statement is an insult to the American electorate, even considering its (our) demonstrated foolishness in supporting Obama.
The greatest threat to Mitt's election is his own self-proclaimed progressivism. Blaming religious prejudice for his problems is denial and self-delusion worthy of the left. · 13 hours ago
Did you read the linked study? · 1 hour ago
I can't get past the phrase "Mormon feeling thermometer".
Jun '12
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
I started supporting Romney when the last small government, more convervative candidate had suspended campaigning. Obama must go, so Romney must have support, since his performance will be better than Obama's, what his positions on anything are, they don't matter until Obama is gone, now maybe for a second term?!
I hope that with additional elections, and education of the public, eventually a majority for actual shrinkage of the Federal Government, not just a reduction in the rate of growth, will actually occur.
Jun '10
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
James Of England
...
I can't prove that Raw Prawn and I do not hold our views out of cowardice, but I think that it is clearly possible to believe that we hold them through a good faith and uncoerced difference in opinion and hope that you might treat us as if we are arriving at the views through our claimed principles rather than on the basis of an ulterior motive.
There are no greater threats to Mitt's election than his faith. None. Sure, there's some benefit to attacking Obama on Obama's faith, but the benefit from that is trivial compared to the cost of opening that door. By delegitimizing and minimizing attacks on Obama's terrible faith, he protects the power of his future denunciations of Obama flavored bigotry against his faith.
"Attacking Obama on Obama's faith" ?? Why, oh why, James my friend, do you misread people so often? If Wright's Marxism and anti-Americanism is the faith you mean then we are on the same wavelength -- otherwise, you missed my point(s).
Oct '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
James Of England
Did you read the linked study? · 4 hours ago
I wasn't going to admit it, but since you ask - I had scanned it, of course. I follow nearly all the links I encounter in Ricochet comments. Rico-rolled again.
I thought it a weak exercise in slight of hand. I suppose most academic social and political analysis is. The best I can say for this particular effort is that its conflation of correlation with causation is diluted by the transparency of its dishonest data selection. C'mon, man, that fishwrap wasn't even a skilled effort.
James, I don't think you would treat work of this quality as anything above birdcage liner if it didn't support your desired conclusion.
Now, I admit I look down on the soft fields (I do real stuff); it's too easy to make any argument one chooses when so few readers have any analytic skill. Still - this paper has to be really obscure, right? Is there a subculture where junk like this is in the water? (I need a word there.) Where does one find it? And why?
Apr '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
Larry Koler
"Attacking Obama on Obama's faith" ?? Why, oh why, James my friend, do you misread people so often? If Wright's Marxism and anti-Americanism is the faith you mean then we are on the same wavelength -- otherwise, you missed my point(s).
Bigotry and objections to bigotry (when liberals, inevitably, become violent and obnoxious in their assaults on Mormons and Mormonism) are likely to be one of the key battlegrounds. Even if you don't see the value to avoiding attacking Rev. Wright in delegitimizing their attacks on Mitt, surely you can see the value in enhancing our attacks on them as anti-religious un-american jerks. Heck, we can even incorporate Wright into those attacks, but that only works as a counterattack.
And, sure, you can distinguish between Wright's politics and his faith, but from 30,000 feet, attacking Obama's ex-pastor for any reason is attacking his ex-pastor qua pastor. Plus, so far as I know, Wright, while a terrible person, holds Christian beliefs. My mental odds put slightly better odds on him than on Mitt when it comes to facing the Judgment Seat.
Edited on June 17, 2012 at 7:05pmApr '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
Barfly
James Of England
Did you read the linked study? ·
I wasn't going to admit it, but since you ask - I had scanned it, of course.....
I thought it a weak exercise in slight of hand. I suppose most academic social and political analysis is. The best I can say for this particular effort is that its conflation of correlation with causation is diluted by the transparency of its dishonest data selection.....
I found it on Instapundit, but there's been a number of similar showings. I agree that this study doesn't show causation, but it does show views of Mormonism correlating more with views of Mitt than do conservative/ liberal, age, republican/ democrat, gender, or anything else. I'd be prepared to believe that something else was a bigger problem; maybe Romneycare, or becoming pro-Life only a decade ago, or Bain, or not agreeing with Reagan's timidity on welfare reform in 1994, but the stats make Mormonism look bigger to me.
Even if it is only the, say, 4th biggest issue, it's still an order of magnitude bigger than Wright for Obama.
I'm curious about the data selection angle though. Could you expand?
Oct '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
James Of England
Plus, so far as I know, Wright, while a terrible person, holds Christian beliefs. My mental odds put him slightly better odds on him than on Mitt when it comes to facing the Judgment Seat.
We have entered a strange land, my friends. Keep your hands inside the vehicle.
LaRouche is running? Can I get a ride? My clump is jumpy too.
Apr '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
Barfly
James Of England
Did you read the linked study? · 4 hours ago
The best I can say for this particular effort is that its conflation of correlation with causation is diluted by the transparency of its dishonest data selection.
It occurs to me that even this defense doesn't apply to the 1/5-1/4 of the population who say that they won't vote for a Mormon. That's pretty much causation, right there, and that's just those who are willing to admit to what might be thought of as a bigoted opinion (witness the response earlier on this thread to someone admitting to considering his faith).
It's also not cherry picking data; polls are pretty consistent in finding significant numbers of people who feel this way, and you can't spend a lot of time calling members of the public, doorstepping, or handing out leaflets without being regularly reminded of the phenomenon.
Oct '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
James Of England
I found it on Instapundit ... I agree that this study doesn't show causation, but it does show views of Mormonism correlating more with views of Mitt than do conservative/ liberal, age, republican/ democrat, gender, or anything else. ...
... I'm curious about the data selection angle though. ...
Insty, right - Reynolds frequently links the SSRN, I recall. Ok, good, I was afraid we'd have to pull you out of some fever swamp.
Data selection: ANES's EGSS, primarily. Just read the survey questions, you'll see what I mean. And a Gallup poll. My, what rigor (mortis...)
No causation: right. So why cite it?
Of course people correlate views of Mitt and Mormonism. He's the prominent example. Duh. (And the LDS has no better public exemplar.)
Mormonism more correlated than conservatism? Um, that's because he's not a conservative. (Homer Simpson could do this stuff.)
This social "science" is worse than climate science. We elected a black Hawaiian, and a trailer-park hick not long ago. Mitt stands on his own. He might not even lose, then we won't have to make lame excuses at all. Why start now?