When Did You Go Romney?
I realize that not all of us joined the Romney camp. Maybe we're going third party. Maybe we're not big on voting. Maybe we just can't get behind him yet. But as a center-right camp here, most of us have joined Team Romney.
And I'm curious what pushed you over the edge. I was thinking about this because a friend of mine remarked on something he read in Ben Domenech's The Transom today, explaining how he decided to go for Romney. The hook is a Michael Barone column giving examples of how President Obama has listened to his elite donors at the expense of good campaign strategy. There's his decision to support redefining marriage to include same-sex couples. There's his stance on Keystone. And there's this:
The second issue on which Obama seems to have been listening to his money-givers was the health insurance mandate requiring employers to pay for contraceptives and abortifacients.
Many rich liberals feel strongly that women's "reproductive rights" (actually, the right not to reproduce) are so vital that government must ensure they have free access to contraception, even though it is widely available and inexpensive.
That's one view. Roman Catholic bishops and leaders of Catholic institutions feel that such services are sinful and refuse to provide them. They cite the Constitution's guarantee of free exercise of religion, while the other side relies on what courts have called "emanations" and "penumbras" radiating from constitutional texts.
The political point is that, as polling suggests, most Americans don't like government forcing people to violate their religious convictions. That's in line with tradition in a country that exempted those with religiously based conscientious objections from military service in a war in which more than 400,000 Americans were killed.
My friend says that prior this mandate coming out, he was pretty sure he wouldn't vote for Romney. But President Obama's aggressive action pushed him right into the Romney camp as the best means for fighting onerous restrictions on religious freedom.
My friend is most definitely not an evangelical Christian, though he is religious. Still, Domenech's take on this column is apt:
But as Barone notes, the other reason Romney has brought everyone back into the fold is thanks to two decisions on the part of President Obama and his administration since the primary ended which struck directly at the constituency which functioned as the longest Romney holdout: evangelical Christians. Obama's decisions on marriage and the conscience mandate served as an immediate boost to Romney among the die-hard skeptics, the 'faith and freedom' holdouts who kept Rick Santorum's presidential campaign alive long past the point where it was pining for the fjords. My own opinion, as you know, is that Romney will have more problems with independents than conservatives – the former haven’t yet seen the coming thermonuclear negative ad deluge, but the latter follow the old Michael Kelly sandwich dictum at the ballot box. http://vlt.tc/bpb Romney can thank President Obama for reminding the evangelicals of that.
Even if you were already supportive of Romney, did Obama's own goals here make you more committed? Or what moved you?
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Comments:
May '10
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
James of England, you have said well. That is the perfect balance of challenge and question in a thought-provoking manner. THAT is precisely the way that growth takes place. Thank you for a nicely modeled example.
Apr '12
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
His Solyndra speech was fantastic, not hectoring, accusing or lecturing but right on target about government thinking they can pick the business winners. Private sector business is not as easy as it seems and Romney picked out the key points that money was given to businesses to reward political support. Talk about the elites supporting Obama. Hope Romney does more of that casual style of campaigning.
Jun '10
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
gnarlydad
Larry Koler
gnarlydad:
...
You have much to learn about religion.
Probably true, if I take your meaning correctly. I'm fairly certain my faith looks quite as outlandish to others as the Mormon faith looks to me, as nearly any Protestant denomination we could name was at one time considered a cult. Perhaps I ought not to have brought it up here.
I think you take my meaning in the way I intended. Religions are responsible for covering a whole bunch of unknowns -- and are seriously difficult areas to understand. Revelations such as Joseph Smith had are highly problematic when they are brought out into the light of day. It is extremely hard to promote them against the grain of all the traditional religions that were already well ensconced here.
I think that the proof of the pudding is in the tasting and also " every tree is known by its own fruit." I think the Mormons can rest easy on that score for they have been exemplary citizens and exemplary neighbors for most of their history. Even in their early history, the majority of blame for wrong actions goes to their detractors and some cold blooded murderers amongst us.
Jun '12
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
James of England: ... Excellent questions. I don't know the answer to all of them, but I may be able to clarify my concerns...
I know enough about Mormon history to be somewhat skeptical of the intellectual honesty of its adult modern adherents. I refer here to a marked refusal to question the veracity of the claims made by Joseph Smith, particularly concerning the translations of an ancient artifact purporting to recount the history of a lost tribe of Israel found on the American Continent, who are the Native Americans. The method of this translation, its real content, and the actual nature of the artifact in question, conspire to suggest that Joseph Smith was either utterly delusional, or a fraud.
Mormons I have met remain largely ignorant of nature of their Church's genesis, viewing themselves simply as belonging to one of many Christian denominations, as indeed, they are widely perceived and portrayed in the media. Perhaps this is the case with Mitt Romney, I don't know. Upon reviewing the data, I have concluded that the Mormon Church is properly described, not as a Christian denomination, but as a religious cult, and it gives me pause.
Jun '10
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
(Continued from #43)
Another thing about all religions I would like to point out. It's easiest to use traditional Christians here as an example:
From the outside Christians can be seen as cannibals ("Take, eat: this is my body") and purveyors of gory rituals (the crucifix itself and the Bible's story of Jesus' crucifixion). These are not my views but I have heard them voiced by people in other countries.
Also, the Jews do not have a way to understand Christians' insistence on God becoming incarnate in Jesus. Their notions of the Messiah never included such a possibility. Their theology doesn't even comprehend such an event. Yet, in America and for the most part, we have been able to live together and prosper.
Theologically the above items are simply not surmountable. So, we must leave each to his own understanding of these sacred areas. David Berlinski explains beautifully how knowledge of the world (science, in his example) and knowledge of the deeper mysteries of this creation are way beyond the puny minds we have. Only in the spirit can we understand and even then only partially.
Jun '12
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
As to how Mr. Romney's affiliation with the Mormon Church might reflect on the soundness of his judgement and the trajectory of his policies, I have no way of gauging because I do not comprehend the nature of that affiliation. It seems not to have interfered with his business accumen, indeed, it has probably helped. He strikes me as a sincerely devout, responsible, optimistic, hardworking sort of man, all hallmarks of a strong sense of personal integrity, and he may very well turn out to be exactly the person we need in the White House. Given the political revolution I see approaching in the years ahead, however, I'm not sure we need another Reagan. I have the sense that we might need another Churchill, which is why I steered toward Newt Gingrich. I prefer a man who has met and conquered his demons to one who denies that he has any.
Jun '12
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
Larry Koler: ... I agree. Theological differences are what they are, and perhaps I allow my own bias in this area to bear more weight than it should. I'm relatively new at this whole blogging thing, so thanks for your patience.
Sorry for the misspelling of you last name.
Edited on June 16, 2012 at 12:04amJun '12
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
CandE: ... I guess I sound like one 'cause I is one. Thanks for pointing it ouch so bluntly. I'm working on it.
Dec '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
1968- oops- wrong Romney! I agree with Larry K about Mitt Romney-- since 2008 for all the reasons he mentioned plus $250 million more.
Also, I personally find the Mormonism to be a plus; David Frum's commentary cited in a previous Duane Oyen post summarizes it best:
Like their Calvinist forebears, Mormons are inclined to interpret economic success as an indicator of divine approval, a fulfillment of the Book of Mormon’s promise that the faithful will “prosper in the land.” ... Romney’s attitude toward money seems also to have been shaped by the LDS church’s emphatic hostility to conspicuous consumption and lavish display.
Seems as if the country could benefit from this kind of 'financial' conversion right now.
Edited on June 15, 2012 at 11:47pmJun '10
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
gnarlydad:
...
I have the sense that we might need another Churchill, which is why I steered toward Newt Gingrich. I prefer a man who has met and conquered his demons to one who denies that he has any.
I agree completely. Newt is the only senior politician in the Republican party who has fought the left and decisively trounced them. And very few on our side even thanked him (but that's because he proceeded to do it in the face of their repeated naysaying).
Another thing I like to point out to people is that he was also politically damaged in the battle -- much like Clarence Thomas and Sarah Palin were. Literally, it was Alinsky-like character assassination.
Apr '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
If your concern about Mormons is that they don't wrestle with demons, I believe your concern can be remedied by more contact with Mormons, but then I also struggle to believe that Newt has conquered his demons (unless he has done so during the last month). Your mileage (and Larry's) apparently varies. Mormonism is not "laid back". Failing that, reading a bio would help; although he's created jobs in 6 figures and ended jobs in 4 figures, he's personally fired a good number of people, lost campaigns, been involved in a fatal car crash, and so on.
My disagreement with Mormons is that they don't believe in the logically impossible but nonetheless true doctrines of the Nicene Incarnation and the Trinity. Their belief in false but allegedly divine revelation marks them out no differently to me than Lutherans and Muslims; there is nothing logically impossible about Luther's claim that he alone received the correct canon, nor about Mohammed's that Gabriel told him that stuff, nor about Smith's claim of revelation.
Mar '12
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
I went for Mitt during one of the debates(I forget which one). Perry was lambasting Mitt over his use of a illegal alien for a gardener (or something like that). Perry's rant went on for about 4 minutes or so. The commentator turned to Mitt for his response. Mitt looked at Perry and said "Nice try".. That's when he got me.....
Jun '12
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
James of England: ...Failing that, reading a bio would help...
Do you have one in mind that I might find helpful?
Apr '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
gnarlydad: James of England: ...Failing that, reading a bio would help...
Do you have one in mind that I might find helpful? · 19 minutes ago
The best bio out at the moment is The Real Romney, by a couple of liberal Boston Globe journalists; it works hard to promote liberal attacks on Romney and skims over or omits successes, but it's pretty comprehensive and delivers its toxins in a polite and thoughtful tone. There isn't a comprehensive conservative bio out, but Hugh Hewitt's book is probably the best pro-Romney biography, and focuses heavily on your concerns about Mitt's faith. Both of his books have autobiographical elements, with No Apology being broader and maybe an easier read, but Turnaround being more interesting (to my mind).
Dec '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
gnarlydad: James of England: ...Failing that, reading a bio would help...
Do you have one in mind that I might find helpful?
I would suggest a mere google of the following:
1-Bain & Co P&L
2-Bain Capital P&L
3- Salt Lake City 2002 Olympics P&L
Jun '12
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
James, ET: thanks to both. Now, I have some reading to do...
Jun '10
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
EThompson
gnarlydad: James of England: ...Failing that, reading a bio would help...
Do you have one in mind that I might find helpful?
I would suggest a mere google of the following:
1-Bain & Co P&L
2-Bain Capital P&L
3- Salt Lake City 2002 Olympics P&L · 43 minutes ago
Nice!
Oct '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
I began supporting Mitt when he became the inevitable Republican nominee. I think we'd have been better off with Gingrich or possibly Perry, maybe even Santorum. But I'd support anyone to the right of Hillary against Obama.
Heck, I'd be supporting Bill if he'd won the Republican nomination.
Jun '12
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
I can well understand this reservation, but even if Romney were barking mad he'd have a better grasp on economics and reality than BHO.
Nov '11
Re: When Did You Go Romney?
I came to support Mitt Romney upon my realization that his kindness, warmness, braveness, and most wonderfulness exceeded my aversion to his mechanical laugh and eerie hair. I assume the dread I am already beginning to feel upon thinking about pulling the lever has something to do with my low g factor, or possibly my whininess, extremism, and general tendency to attack capitalism unwittingly. I sincerely hope that I do not have to resort to riding the Choomwagon to my polling station, as the clump of cells that resides in my skull may need a bit of relaxation to prevent me from voting for Lyndon LaRouche in a fit of pique.