What, Exactly, Do The Bad Guys Want?
If I have all this right, in the early 1990s, Somalia, never a particularly stable country in the first place, disintegrated in a civil war, which disintegrated still further into a kind of Hobbesian war of all against all, with this or that warlord achieving this or that temporary advantage. When in 1994 the U.S. attempted to stabilize a portion of the country, at least enough to permit humanitarian aid to reach ordinary people, we were rewarded for our efforts by having one of our helicopters shot down and those on board brutally murdered and dragged through the streets. A few years ago, Ethiopia, with our support, attempted to occupy Somalia, found itself set upon on every side, and eventually withdrew. As of last year, a new Islamist government has achieved control, of a sort. At some point in all this, Uganda sent troops to Somalia, attempting, again, to settle the place down. Then yesterday, a Somali group called al Sahaab, previously known for raids into Kenya, killed 70 people in Uganda, blowing them up in separate but simultaneous explosions.
Two questions:
1. What does al Sahaab want? The Islamist government of Somalia already declared--more than a year ago!--that Shari'a would serve as the basis for the country's legal system. Isn't that the sort of government an Islamist group would be happy to see propped up?
2. Could someone please assure me that, in spite our fate, for several decades now, to serve as global enforcer of as much freedom and justice as we can tease out of the rest of the world-- this is one mess the United States can safely stay out of?
- Comment (8)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (2)
Comments:
Jul '10
Re: What, Exactly, Do The Bad Guys Want?
Peter Robinson:
2. Could someone please assure me that, in spite our fate, for several decades now, to serve as global enforcer of as much freedom and justice as we can tease out of the rest of the world-- this is one mess the United States can safely stay out of? ·
From your lips to God's ears!
May '10
Re: What, Exactly, Do The Bad Guys Want?
1. Undoubtedly, Al Sahaab wants to maintain its control over Somalia as well as continue to enforce Sharia law. Just like losing weight must be followed with keeping the weight off, gaining power must be followed with sustaining power.
Also, a genuine Islamic totalitarian wants the restoration of the Islamic caliphate on a global scale. They won't be content until everyone is subjugated under Sharia law. Thus, such a grand endeavor would necessarily entail forceful incursions into other countries.
2. Why should the U.S. government involve itself to begin with? How often is it the case that the conduct of the federal government abroad exists in response and as a solution to some serious national security threat? Is Al Sahaab a threat to the individual rights of American citizens? I think until its determined conclusively that Al Sahaab is an objective threat to the U.S., that the military wing of the Defense Department should remain on standby. However, the intelligence wing should investigate these cases to assess such potential threats. Once the intelligence wing confirms the existence of such threats, the military wing should act accordingly.
May '10
Re: What, Exactly, Do The Bad Guys Want?
I believe two helicopters were shot down during that incident in 1993.
Re: What, Exactly, Do The Bad Guys Want?
Zoon Politikon
Peter Robinson:
2. Could someone please assure me that, in spite our fate, for several decades now, to serve as global enforcer of as much freedom and justice as we can tease out of the rest of the world-- this is one mess the United States can safely stay out of? ·
From your lips to God's ears! · Jul 13 at 8:16pm
With the US still searching out a home for AFRICOM, Peter, I'm not sure we'll keep clear of this one. The Washington Post is already calling for greater American involvement. And they're not alone.
May '10
Re: What, Exactly, Do The Bad Guys Want?
The bad guys want to destroy what they do not control, and totally dominate everything else. They are no different than any other group of thugs.
May '10
Re: What, Exactly, Do The Bad Guys Want?
Well, doesn't El Shabab want al Qaeda to control Somalia again, and extend that control to Uganda and Kenya as well?
This is an extension of Mideast Wackamole. The question is how large the tumors need to grow before they are an existential threat outside of Africa. Clearly we need to keep an eye on things, given bin Laden's history in Somalia. Most of the jihadist nonsense we encounter in Minnesota is initiated by Somalians.
Re: What, Exactly, Do The Bad Guys Want?
Peter Robinson:
1. What does al Sahaab want?
2. Could someone please assure me that...this is one mess the United States can safely stay out of? ·
1. I think they want what most young gang-bangers want who have taken over—free rein to do pretty much what they please (e.g., kill, maim, steal, not work, etc.) under the banner of being lawful, pure and Islamic. Remember Dirty Harry's reply, when pressed to explain his assertion why the psychopathic killer Scorpio would continue to murder when the experts were unsure of his motivation— "Cause he likes it." In short—Al Sahaab likes it.
2. I imagine that American support for a third front in Somalia to do a Mogadishu II is about 0%. For some reason, the American people have this strange perception that should they reenter that hellhole to "help" the people, then as soon as we had to use force to stop the killers from killing, the victims might be as eager to see us dragged through the streets as their suddenly kind and gentle former oppressors.
Re: What, Exactly, Do The Bad Guys Want?
Victor Davis Hanson:
1. I think they want what most young gang-bangers want who have taken over—free rein to do pretty much what they please (e.g., kill, maim, steal, not work, etc.) under the banner of being lawful, pure and Islamic. Remember Dirty Harry's reply, when pressed to explain his assertion why the psychopathic killer Scorpio would continue to murder when the experts were unsure of his motivation— "Cause he likes it." In short—Al Sahaab likes it.
2. I imagine that American support for a third front in Somalia to do a Mogadishu II is about 0%.
1. It may seem strange to connect Dirty Harry's point to my point about biting, but it's true: the scientific experts can't tell us why we like to do little or big bad things.
2. Victor, I wonder what you think about the future of AFRICOM -- specifically, where it should be based.