What America Can Learn From China
Here in China folks are a little sensitive about Americans carping on exchange rates. Prodded, they seem to acknowledge that the Rmb is undervalued, but they politely point out that its strengthening would not come close to solving America's economic problems.
They're right, of course. Every visit to China underscores how misleading it is to blame our struggles on others. Watching how hard people work, how seriously young people study, how fast businesses move, and how supportive of economic growth government is, reminds the traveler that the rebuilding of American greatness depends entirely on decisions we make.
The man in the photo is Mr. Lu Guanqiu, a legend in China, whom Americans first met on the cover of Newsweek in 1991. Mr. Lu has become a good friend, and now a co-venturer in electric battery technology with an Indiana firm to which I introduced him.
Starting from a bicycle repair shop in 1969, when those possessed by the spirit of enterprise were imprisoned or worse by the Cultural Revolutionists, Mr. Lu persevered and today remains fully engaged in running Wanxiang, one of the world's leading auto parts companies. Here we sit in Wanxiang's new all-electric bus, after a tour of the company's new e-car facility knowledgeably led by Mr. Wu himself.
It's hard to avoid thinking about the fact that Mr. Lu risked his life to create wealth for himself and others, at a time when the U.S. was the runaway world leader in invention and entrepreneurism. Today, it often seems easier to start and build a great business in other places, including his "communist" nation, than it is at home. Yes, we have work to do.
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May '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Thanks for the quotes around "communist", Governor Daniels- that shows that you actually get it.
Every time I see a fervid reference to the "Red Chinese" I roll my eyes and recognize someone who knows nothing whatever about the place. Eventually The Party will go the way of the Cultural Revolution without a shot being fired (there is a mocking and highly popular Cultural revolution theme restaurant in Nanjing where capitalists go and laugh at the murals on the wall).
If only some of our politicians took markets and consumers as seriously as does Lu.
May '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Governor, upon reading this post's title and before realizing it was from you I cringed a little. I thought maybe Rob and Peter had invited on a Tom Friedman wannabe, in some misguided pot-stirring effort!
It's interesting to see China prospering (to the extent China is prospering) because of values that used to be encouraged in America but for too long have been stifled by bureaucracy and demonized by politicians. Realizing it's capitalism and not communism which deserves the credit is something Democrats seem to lack the - dare I say - nuance for.
Jul '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
The People’s Republic of China is a for-profit police state, and we should not be under any illusions about the chances of its reforming its ways and further liberalizing its economy and politics, or the possibility of its chauvinistic rulers’ acting with regard to anything other than the ruthless pursuit of their national interest, in whatever distorted way they define that. While Deng Xiaoping’s much-vaunted economic-liberalization program worked undeniable wonders, the thawing of the Chinese economy came to a halt years ago, and if there is any political progress in sight, it is not obvious. All of which really ought to be of interest only to full-on Sinologists, because, the Obama administration’s populist fist-shaking notwithstanding, China’s economic policy is not what ails America — any more than Japan’s economic policy was what ailed America during the Carter years, that awful interlude during which Honda and Toyota viciously conspired to dump affordable, reliable, fuel-efficient automobiles on unsuspecting Americans who really wanted to buy an AMC Gremlin but were duped into an upgrade by those inscrutable Orientals and their long-game industrial policies. China’s economic policy is what ails China.
Jul '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Fair enough, China isn't the totalitarian communist state that it was. But it's hardly a parliamentary democracy or constitutional republic, either.
If you prefer to describe it as an authoritarian corporatist oligarchy traveling under the Party banner, that's fine. Seems a little clunky to me though.
Jul '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
The above quote was taken from the estimable Kevin Williamson.
Here's another good article from Jonah Goldberg.
Why look at China? Why not look at Singapore or Norway?
Edited on Nov 13, 2010 at 8:49amOct '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Palaeologus
Fair enough, China isn't the totalitarian communist state that it was. But it's hardly a parliamentary democracy or constitutional republic, either.
If you prefer to describe it as an authoritarian corporatist oligarchy traveling under the Party banner, that's fine. Seems a little clunky to me though.
So we've complete forgotten about the Tienanmen Square massacre, China's horrific gulag system, the brutal repression of dissent such as the gruesome treatment the Falun Gong movement, the harvesting of organs, and all of the rest of the evils that this communist government has engaged in?
We have a state that is controled by a communist party that is committed to enriching itself and staying in power by not repeating the mistakes of their Soviet communist neighbors. They gambled that if they provided a degree of economic liberty (which tends to be a very corrupt system and should not be mistaken for a free market) while continuing to repress political expression, they could keep the gravy train rolling for the elites.
If you want an increasingly authoritarian corporatist oligarchy, the United States is a better example of this than China.
Jul '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Publius
If you want an increasingly authoritarian corporatist oligarchy, the United States is a better example of this than China. · Nov 13 at 9:16am
The U.S. is increasingly authoritarian & corporatist, but it's not an oligarchy.
Publius
So we've complete forgotten about the Tienanmen Square massacre, China's horrific gulag system... and all of the rest of the evils that this communist government has engaged in?
Well, you don't seem to have forgotten about those things, and I haven't forgotten them, so no. But if you think that those horrors are totalitarian in the sense that the Cultural Revolution was, then I respectfully submit that you're wrong.
As a basis for comparison, I highly recommend Rae Yang's Spider Eater's.
http://www.amazon.com/Spider-Eaters-Memoir-Rae-Yang/dp/0520215982/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289669881&sr=1-1
Oct '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Palaeologus
The U.S. is increasingly authoritarian & corporatist, but it's not an oligarchy.
A democratic oligarchy is the best thing that I can come up with to describe what we have become since we've ceased to be a constitutional republic. We're an oligarchy that is made up of the academic, political, media and corporate elites who run the country. We're a democratic oligarchy in the sense that we still have semi-free elections where the democratic process is allowed to shape a portion of the oligarchy by impacting who makes up the political class and which factions in the class are dominant at any given time.
We don't have truly free elections in this country given the amount of corrupt and self-preserving regulation that the oligarchy has imposed to protect itself. We have corrupt redistricting practices that include flagrantly unreasonable gerrymandering of congressional districts, a high level of electoral corruption in several states, and increasingly onerous regulations on political fundraising and speech which are designed to protect incumbents of the ruling political class from challengers.
If you disagree, what are we given that we're no longer a constitutional republic?
Jun '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Publius
A democratic oligarchy is the best thing that I can come up with to describe what we have become since we've ceased to be a constitutional republic. We're an oligarchy that is made up of the academic, political, media and corporate elites who run the country. We're a democratic oligarchy in the sense that we still have semi-free elections where the democratic process is allowed to shape a portion of the oligarchy by impacting who makes up the political class and which factions in the class are dominant at any given time.
We don't have truly free elections in this country given the amount of corrupt and self-preserving regulation that the oligarchy has imposed to protect itself. We have corrupt redistricting practices that include flagrantly unreasonable gerrymandering of congressional districts, a high level of electoral corruption in several states, and increasingly onerous regulations on political fundraising and speech which are designed to protect incumbents of the ruling political class from challengers.
If you disagree, what are we given that we're no longer a constitutional republic? · Nov 13 at 11:25am
Preach it, Publius!
Jul '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Michael Tee:
Why look at China? Why not look at Singapore or Norway? · Nov 13 at 8:41am
Edited on Nov 13 at 08:49 am
Those are excellent questions. The "be more like China" argument does seem to choose a poor model.
Publius
A democratic oligarchy is the best thing that I can come up with to describe what we have become since we've ceased to be a constitutional republic.
We don't have truly free elections in this country given the amount of corrupt and self-preserving regulation that the oligarchy has imposed to protect itself.
If you disagree, what are we given that we're no longer a constitutional republic? · Nov 13 at 11:25am
Interesting argument, I'd love to read a post on the member feed about it.
Re: What America Can Learn From China
"The rebuilding of American greatness depends entirely on decisions we make."
Governor, do you suppose there's any way we could get those words inscribed in two places--above the entrances to the House and Senate chambers?
Oct '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Palaeologus
Interesting argument, I'd love to read a post on the member feed about it.
I'll have to do that as some point now that we have that feature. I'm not under any illusions of being anything other than an intellectual minority on the issue even here at Ricochet. I suppose I could really nurture my inner crank by ranting about the failure of corporate governance in the same post.
Feb '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
As a Sinophile and having spent some time in China, I think there is a lot we could learn from China. There are great aspects of their culture we could benefit from. There are also many things they could learn from us (and many things they have already learned and are practicing better than we, as you point out).
There are also many things we should not learn from them. One example is the idea of a state-directed "free"-market economy. Another is their one-child policy, obviously. I understand for practical reasons why they think they had to do this, but it's far too draconian and will result in demographic problems for them later.
China has many things going for it, but it's not immune to problems either. They have a huge demographic problem, a growing real-estate bubble, enormous environmental problems, problems with unrest within the populace, and many others.
The biggest problem I see for both countries is a rising level of antagonism towards each other. The historical pattern is for these tensions eventually to escalate into war; which I sincerely hope does not occur.
Jul '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Peter Robinson: "The rebuilding of American greatness depends entirely on decisions we make."
Governor, do you suppose there's any way we could get those words inscribed in two places--above the entrances to the House and Senate chambers? · Nov 13 at 3:39pm
If we could get Republican members of the House & Senate to broadly recognize that fact, I'd be a happy camper, Peter.
The difficulty, of course, is designing the blueprint. I doubt it's China. The progressives make up a new one weekly, though all tend to be consistently top-down in approach and rarely (for roughly the last 45 years) view American greatness as an important objective.
It seems to me that to rebuild "American greatness" in the short term, three things must happen:
1)We must have successful conclusions in Iraq & Afghanistan.
2)We must have successful diplomatic engagements (often this necessarily will mean aggressive engagements) with China, Russia, & Iran.
3)We must grow economically & manage our costs.
Success will breed some resentment, but who cares? To be an exceptional, exemplary nation is to be despised.
May '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Oh, good grief, Michael, Publius, and Palaeologus, with all respect, may I ask how much time any of you have spent in China? Or how many regular Chinese citizens you know? Jonah Goldberg, much as I love him otherwise, is not the East Asia expert I would be quoting.
China is an authoritarian state run by a bunch of technocrats trying to cling to power by retaining loyalties of corrupt local Party apparatchiks. But they are less Marxist than Nancy Pelosi, and a whole lot smarter and more interesting.
In everyday life, you'd be hard-pressed to discern much of a difference between Seoul and Shanghai. Go to the Cultural Revolution theme restaurant and watch a bunch of women howling with laughter as they do mocking belly-dances in front of the Mao Long March mural and repeat the stuff about gulags.
Are there bad leaders? Of course. Are there noble people like Liu Xiaobo who push for more democracy, and need our support and pressure? Of course.
But I am far more concerned about Russia and Iran than I will ever be about China. And right-wing cliches endlessly repeated do not enlighten anyone.
Jun '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Mr. Oyen,
I lived in Hong Kong for nearly 15 years, I opened some of the first container shipping routes for US lines in the 90's to china, and I am writing from the offices of Hong Kong and Taiwan's largest media company in Taiwan right now. Is it okay if I disagree with your "insightful views"
"Hard pressed to find much difference between Seoul and Shanghai in everyday life" Not to be rude, but only a fool would make such a statement.
I have several friends, Hugo Restall of the WSJ and David Zweig, a noted sinologist, who are considered "pro-china" in the view of most on the right and they would laugh at your statement. In the last 5 years we have seen a sharp increase in the influence of the communist party in everyday life as the regime struggles more and more to retain control. Should you like to come to Shanghai one day I will gladly fill your schedule with US business executives and Chinese citizens who can fill you in on the difference of Seoul and Shanghai.
Your argument is insulting to Chinese and your cliches and studied ignorance are not enlightening.
Edited on Nov 13, 2010 at 9:01pmJul '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Fair questions. I won't, in the lingo of a center-right comedian we both dig, "top-spin lob that query back into your end of the court."
The answer to both is none for me. But please do me the credit, Duane, of reading my posts before consigning me to Sinophobic purgatory.
The fact of the matter is while I admittedly have no first hand knowledge of China (quite a bit of second-hand, though) I offered a first-person account (an excellent one, btw you should definitely read Spider Eaters) as a source for comparing late 60's China with current China.
That said, we may be able to learn a great deal from contemporary China, but it is just plain silly to presume that it should be our model. The fact of the matter is, on it's best day it never had, China would copy the U.S.A.
Edited on Nov 13, 2010 at 7:54pmJul '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
OT, but by the way Duane, congrats on the gilded gophers winning a Big 10-11-12, whatever, football game.
Re: What America Can Learn From China
To say the least.
Jun '10
Re: What America Can Learn From China
Would be interested in comments from all on how a man who is an open presidential candidate can spend 11 days in China and not bring up human rights once?
Can anyone find where he said anything in China on human rights?