We Are Pro-Teacher!
Joe Escalante ·
Feb 24, 2011 at 11:26pm
Do you know how government health control supporters actually try to argue that Obamacare will actually save everyone money and lower the deficit?
I tried the following argument on for size today and it went over well. "We are against the public employee unions because they siphon too much from the system and we actually believe that without them
, teachers will make more money. We are pro-teacher, pro-student, and anti-corruption. All the efficiencies we can create by taking the money that used to go to the unions and in the politicians re-election coffers, can now be used for higher salaries for teachers, more benefits, and safer, more efficient schools. "
Makes more sense than that Obamacare smoke and mirrors.
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Jan '11
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
Higher salaries? Why not just say that letting more teachers keep what they're paying in dues gives them more of the salary they already make? It's giving them more personal freedom.
More benefits? Like what?
Using that money for "safer, more efficient schools" is so vague that it's almost meaningless.
The truth is that a real investment in education innovation, such as embracing online and blended learning models that leverage available technology (as Terry Moe, Michael Horn, Lance Izumi and others have argued for) would make a significant percentage of teachers unnecessary. Let's say, for the sake of realistic argument, 35%.
So here's how I - someone on your side who identifies themselves as a Conservative and works for education reform - read the argument:
"Suppressing union influence will give teachers more of the money they currently earn to spend as they see fit. It will also allow us to make necessary changes in education that will drastically reduce personnel costs and improve learning outcomes."
That last part, however righteous it might be, causes serious friction. It makes sense, but you'll still lose the debate.
Jun '10
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
Busting the public employee unions is only the start. The move must be backed up with statewide vouchers that introduce competition into the profession. Yes, good teachers will make more money as schools compete for the best teachers. The second step is to break the power of the school bureaucracies. This is the arena where failed classroom teachers make their living. They acquire advanced degrees and more credentials in "educational theory" and then disseminate this nonsense into the classroom by bureaucratic diktat. Administrative mandates consume time and generate mounds of paperwork to no affect except keeping the lawyer parasites in business. You've heard of ambulance chasers. There are lawyers who chase school buses, too.
Oct '10
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
Two great posts above. Bottom line... all government employees are part of the largest monopoly the world has ever experienced. The governmental anti-trust passion is for private employers, designed to prevent them from getting a modicum of the same power that the gov. folks already have.
We've greatly benefited from the choices the private sector has always provided, and settled for simply complaining about the fact that government prevents this freedom everywhere in it's sphere. This is understandable with the military, and entirely unacceptable anywhere else. Give us back our schools. Your argument, Joe, is good enough, I guess, but the bottom line is to defeat the statists, and get the power away from the feral and state governments. Wisconsin GOP did the trick this morning. Get enough conservatives into the legislatures, the purpose of your argument, and then use every legislative rule, trick, power available to defeat them.
This is nothing less than re-fighting the Revolutionary War by the only means we have, the power of the free American electorate.
Edited on Feb 25, 2011 at 6:20amJan '11
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
The purpose of the educational system is not just to give teachers some place to work. We already know that we have way too many teachers and administrators. We need to cut a lot of them. If they threaten us, who cares? They weren't going to vote for us anyway.
But now is the time for serious reform. It won't be enough to just get rid of teachers. That will only roll back the failed experiment of improving schools by adding staff. We're only going back to the drawing board.
We need to re-ask the question: how do we improve education? Adding staff wasn't the answer. What's a better solution? And, I argue, we need to focus on the role of education for getting out of poverty. We need to make a special effort to improve education for the poor.
We brag that the American promise isn't about equality of outcomes, but of equality of opportunity. Well, a dysfunctional education denies that opportunity. We need to fix that, to make good on the American promise.
Oct '10
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
KC Mulville: ...We need to re-ask the question: how do we improve education? Adding staff wasn't the answer. What's a better solution? And, I argue, we need to focus on the role of education for getting out of poverty. We need to make a special effort to improve education for the poor.
We brag that the American promise isn't about equality of outcomes, but of equality of opportunity. Well, a dysfunctional education denies that opportunity. We need to fix that, to make good on the American promise. · Feb 25 at 6:32am
Your thoughts above have already been acted upon. Washington D.C., a hell hole for minority children and their families was well on it's way to proving the superiority of a voucher system, when the statist-in-chief forced the project to shut down. Vouchers from the state governments, no feral gov. involvement, and an equal amount to every student, redeemable at any school, Government, private, Catholic, Evangelical, etc. Any accredited school equally accepted. Anything less can be manipulated by the political class.
Jan '11
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
Spineless cra* wea*! I suppose you're pro Islam but just against the fanatics.
I am NOT pro teacher. If that brands me anti-education, call me what you will. They make too much money and justify it by displaying advanced degrees on training useless outside academia. "I have two masters." Sure, one in English Lit and the other in the NEA.
I realize politics makes strange bedfellows, but to suggest you must bribe educators to convince them of the folly of public sector unions merely increases my contempt for the educators.
Jan '11
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
Agreed.
A disclaimer: I'm an ex-Jesuit who taught in Catholic schools, and who admittedly spent my whole education within the Catholic school system. I believe that the kind of education I received was superior to the public school system.
But I'm not so sure that that same education exists these days, even within Catholic schools. Some probably does, in some places. But if we simply sent everyone to Catholic school, as it is now, I'm not convinced that it would solve the problem. Not every Catholic school these days retains the traditional Catholic educational method.
I argue that this method would work for everyone, not just for Catholics.
Let me shamelessly promote Jesuit ideals. One way to describe it is that we should NOT use intellectual skills so that we can learn history or science or language. Instead, we should reverse the order. Let us use history or science or language to train intellectual skills. Sure, it's important to learn the topics. But school is for skills. Train the mind. Exercise the mind. Don't learn what to think. Learn how to think.
Jan '11
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
Teachers' unions are notorious for protecting the incompetent, ignorant, and ineffective. Your argument will resonate with competent teachers but will be howled down by the mob of others.
Edited on Feb 25, 2011 at 8:16amAug '10
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
Some teachers make too much money and some don't make enough. If teachers were paid based on performance, we'd get better teachers. The problem with teacher compensation isn't salaries -- which are good but also reasonable -- rather it is the crushing retirement benefits we offer them.
If we could change from defined benefit to defined contribution, we'd make things far easier on our communities.
We'd also do well to remove the central control of places like Sacramento over curriculum etc. One of the disadvantages of Prop 13 was that it gave Sacramento control over the flow of education dollars. Voters were sold one bill of goods, but were given another with that Prop.
Oct '10
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
KC Mulville
Let me shamelessly promote Jesuit ideals. One way to describe it is that we should NOT use intellectual skills so that we can learn history or science or language. Instead, we should reverse the order. Let us use history or science or language to train intellectual skills. Sure, it's important to learn the topics. But school is for skills. Train the mind. Exercise the mind. Don't learn what to think. Learn how to think. · Feb 25 at 8:03am
Although I am not Catholic, we are very much on the same page. Your concern about quality is answered with the one word that works in every business... competition. For my family, our kids went to an Evangelical Christian school, but had none been available in my area at the time, I would have had no problem at all placing them in Catholic school.
Honestly, I will trust almost anyone other than a government employee to educate my children. I have always wondered how we could be complacent about our single most important task as parents, the raising and education of our children.
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
My point is that their arguments are vague and meaningless so throw it back at them.
May '10
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
Room 222! I knew it even before I saw the hover-over text.
Jan '11
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
Heartily agree.
Jan '11
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
If that's the route you're going to take, you might as well stick your tongue out and yell, "NEENER NEENER!" so you can at least have a little fun before you lose the argument.
Feb '11
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
There exists an unnatural monopoly on tax-payer funded education which in turn is bankrupting the country and failing to educate our children. We recognize this, but many of us have family and friends who are teachers and don't want to attack them, hence the "the education in our state/country is so messed up, but (insert my friend/spouse/mother) is such a great teacher" mantra. I think the best route is to focus on the monopolistic aspect as being the root of the problem and competition as the best way to solve it. If our friends and loved ones really are great teachers they have much to gain through competition and we should kindly challenge them on this, “If (insert name) is a great teacher, wouldn’t they gain the most in a competitive market for their services?” Currently the only competitive market for teacher services exists on the upper end of the market, i.e. private schools and many teachers (ostensibly) chose their career path in order to make a difference in the lives of disadvantaged children. A voucher/choice system would allow teachers to be rewarded for excellence while still serving a personally rewarding cause.
Dec '10
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
Where HAS Karen Valentine gone?
Michael Constantine popped up in My Big Fat Greek Wedding...
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
I always end my arguments with at least 5 "neeners." I learned it from Marsha Clark during the O.J. trial. And most of my posts are just excuses to post pictures of things like Room 222. I have a new picture to post, but it deserves it's own thread so I shall do that now.
Matthew K. Tabor
If that's the route you're going to take, you might as well stick your tongue out and yell, "NEENER NEENER!" so you can at least have a little fun before you lose the argument. · Feb 25 at 10:53am
Oct '10
Re: We Are Pro-Teacher!
we all know that liberals run the education system in america. the US spends the most money on education among all developed countries, with little to show for it.
but they are good at building students' self esteem.
next step, letting them run the healthcare system...