Up For Some TV Talk?
A week from now, people will be discussing the season premiere of Mad Men, which is scheduled to air next Sunday night. It will be on too late for me to see it. It’s hard to get fired up for something at 10 p.m. when you’ve been doing the Toddler Triathlon since 4:45 a.m. (Events include, but not limited to: Entertainment in the 2-year old, 4-year old, and 6-year old distances.)
So, when I actually get around to watching a popular show or movie, no one wants to talk about it anymore. So, here goes.
What shall I make of the lead role? Carrying as he does the burden of representing the Great White American Male—you know, privileged, rapacious, hubristic—Don Draper handles himself quite nobly. I think I get the character. But the actor Jon Hamm is a curiosity. Is he attractive? I’m not sure. Is he a good actor? I’m not sure. He does have moments of brilliance. In particular, for someone so classically handsome, his face is remarkably expressive. When he keeps his mouth shut, I find him compelling. Otherwise? Not so much. I realize he's supposed to be difficult to pin down because of his character's mysterious situation, but my ambivalence about him goes beyond that.
I sympathize with Betty Draper’s frustration. Infidelity, and the cloud of dishonesty that allows it to thrive, would drive anyone batty. She’s a bit odd, though, right? I suspect she’s supposed to be the token, cartoon conservative. Her views on race are a bit off. She’s stiffly traditional and lacks depth. She thinks children should be seen not heard. She’s well educated, but seems to come alive only when she talks of her former career as a model. She leaves everything to the black housekeeper and isn’t particularly warm or grateful in return.
In other words, from the point of view of the modern, liberal television writer, Betty is your stereotypical 50s-era housewife. She’s been purposely constructed to arouse my fury at all the bad things perpetrated by the Great White American Male. She’s a stunted, unfulfilled victim. You know, like all women were in the pre-Steinem era.
That said, I do *love* Joan and Peggy. (See clip.) What do you think of Mad Men?
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Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
Mad Men, Ursula, is like In-N-Out Burger. It's not mindblowing or lifechanging, but it's very good. All fast food should be about as good as In-N-Out, and all TV dramas ought to be as good as Mad Men. They won't be, of course, in either case. One of the best things that can be said about Mad Men, I might say ironically like Socrates, is that it gives philosophers something to talk about that normal human beings can understand. Here, for example, is Peter Lawler:
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
I like Mad Men, but I wish the characters weren't quite so slimy. Don is an unfaithful, distant liar. Duck deliberately lost his dog. Campbell is a borderline rapist. Peggy is, uh, kind of a slut. They are all charming, compelling characters with no character, so to speak.
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
All of which means, Suzanne, that the show's writers have set a pretty high bar for themselves to clear this season. Here's Natasha Simons at NR (via John Carney):
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
I am so out of the loop w/ Mad Men. And yet, I really want to have an excuse to converse w/ you... (sigh) One more thing to put on my to-do list for this summer... ;-)
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
My hippie friends in Los Angeles swear by it.
James Poulos, Ed.
All of which means, Suzanne, that the show's writers have set a pretty high bar for themselves to clear this season.
Jul 19 at 3:07pm
I have yet to see an episode. But, judging from this, I expect it will go the route of other shows which began with infidelity and ended with big explosions.
Until I used it on Ricochet, I never noticed the "infidel" in "infidelity". Interesting.
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
Oh yeah, I'm there with the smugness! So many distasteful characters, yet I hurried out and bought the season DVD sets.
My favorite scenes are where they seem to make fun of our safety oriented society - Don driving down the road with a scotch in one hand, the kids playing with the dry cleaner bags, etc.
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
I think the last scene from the season one's ending episode The Carousel is one of the finest pieces of TV ever filmed. Completely reeled me into the series with no turning back.
P.S. Do not watch the clip out if you have not seen the episodes leading up to it.
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
Ursula, ignore the buzz and enjoy the extra hour of sleep. I've only caught a few episodes but found each one depressing. Couldn't find a single appealing character, except I kind of liked the bosomy redhead. The smugness is off the charts, but the dresses -- wow! they're beautiful. And I'm pretty sure I spotted an ashtray my grandmother used to have.
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
I love this show, but even more, I love reading about it. Even the stupid annual NRO piece saying that Weiner's trying to show us how horrible the Fifties were and wasn't the hippie movement great. Weiner doesn't believe anything of the sort. An example that springs to mind is when done and a slightly older woman whom he doesn't know are in an elevator, and two younger guys enter in coats and hats. They're talking suggestively about something that happened last night, the woman tries not to look repulsed, and after a minute, Don grabs the hat of the closest man to him and gives it to him, saying there's a lady present. Don't tell me that's from a show that worships the coming of the Sixties.
He is a liberal and has expressed happiness that Obama was elected, but he also has talked favorably about "Rockefeller Republicans," and even Hilton's Christian, conservative politics are shown respect.
I could write more, but I'll leave you with some links (oops, one link) to a Weiner interview which is well worth your time.
http://www.tvtimemachine.com/radio_show_madmen.htm
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
Thanks for this comment, John. I agree, it's not a simplistic show. I haven't listened to the interview you linked to yet, but I believe that Weiner's not a knee-jerk liberal. Yet I do feel that the character of Betty, in particular, deserves some more positive, attractive and noble character traits. Doesn't our view of the fairness and appeal of the time period sort of center around her? So far, it's been too easy to see her as a vapid victim of the Men Who Ruled Those Times, do you see what I mean? She always looks sad, trapped, helpless. Not all women, by a long shot, were like that then despite similar circumstance. Even if even she had a friend with some pluck and sense ... it might work more for me. Just a thought.
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
Ursula Hennessey
.... Doesn't our view of the fairness and appeal of the time period sort of center around her? So far, it's been too easy to see her as a vapid victim of the Men Who Ruled Those Times, do you see what I mean? She always looks sad, trapped, helpless. Not all women, by a long shot, were like that then despite similar circumstance. Even if even she had a friend with some pluck and sense ... it might work more for me. Just a thought. · Jul 19 at 6:24pm
Betty is a physically beautiful, spoiled woman, who's never had hard times and never had to learn anything about herself or to have much of a self. She may, to a small degree, represent Re/Oppressed Woman Living the Unexamined Life, but I think she represents her own character much more. She's a complete bore, and I hope we won't see much more of her!
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
P.S. This is interesting about the Women Of: http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/tv/mad_about_the_girls_ugiORqZfkQHKaCx45D6g0M
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
Great show! Can't wait for the new season. I have the same confusion about the characters that Ursula articulates in the original post, not really sure why I look forward to the show, but I do! Were they really that misogynist then? I do recommend that any one new to the show start at the beginning (rent the DVDs or do Netflix). Don't try to jump in now.
I think John Webb's description of Betty was accurate:
Also right there with Suzanne:
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
Love this quote from the Post article cited by John M. Webb above:
When 36-year-old Park Sloper Jenn Palumbo bonded with her 65-year-old father over AMC’s “Mad Men,” he told her he loved the 1960s-era advertising drama because “the men could smoke and drink at work, and the women were second-class citizens.”
“That’s funny,” she told her husband. “I actually think the men are the weak ones and the women are strong.”
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
Cindy: Love this quote from the Post article cited by John M. Webb above:
.... “That’s funny,” she told her husband. “I actually think the men are the weak ones and the women are strong.” · Jul 20 at 5:31am
Weiner has said that he conceived his show as being about the men of that era and the problems of "manhood," a show I'd've been very interested to see as I'm just over forty and doing grown-up and family things in a three-quarter-assed way. But someone gave him The Second Sex and Sex and the Single Girl and he never looked back. I love the show, but I would also love the original idea, if he wouldn't mind making two shows.
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
Tell New York Magazine how Don Draper would handle the BP account, and you can win a set of Mad Men barbies.
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
I suppose this thread is dead, but I gotta link to a post I just put up on my blog, "Why I'll be watching." http://manlaughing.wordpress.com/2010/07/24/why-ill-be-watching-mad-men/
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
No, John, it's not dead... yet.
Ursula, darn you! You start writing about Mad Men. I want to keep up, so I go on a Mad Men binge. I'm up to the 4th episode of Season 3. And I'm hooked. Darn you! Now I'm not getting much sleep because I'm staying up waaaay too late to get one more episode in. I feel like I still can't comment on the actual show until I've seen all of the episode made so far. But, darn you, Ursula! ;-)
See, John? I'm not done with this thread.
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
Hi Felicia! It pulls you in, doesn't it? I watched them, as you are, in mini-binges with my husband. I haven't seen this season's opener yet, and I probably won't until the whole season is on NetFlix. Sigh. I have to say, I don't think it's as great as The Sopranos, (but, then again, I'm from Sopranos country) but I do quite like it. But, as I write in the post, I'm not totally sure how I feel about everyone ...
May '10
Re: Up For Some TV Talk?
I never got into The Sopranos because I frankly detest the mafia. I've never seen any of the gangster movies (Godfather 1, 2, 3, 4...55, Casino, Good Fellas) all the way through, because they are utterly disturbing to me. I think what bothers me the most about those gangster/mafia stories (and real life stories) is the way the humans shield their evil behavior behind the patina of being "devout" Roman Catholics. It's not just the hypocrisy, it's the blatant acknowledgement of the evil and refusal to repudiate that evil. Instead, they kill to protect their twisted way of life. I'd feel the same way about shows of televangelists or pastors living double lives. I just can't stomach the hypocrisy. So, I'm woefully ignorant about any show dealing with mafia.
I find myself actually talking to the characters on Mad Men wanting them to open their eyes, face the truth and DEAL! When Betty had her phone confrontation with Don in Season 2, I yelled out, "About time! Now dig and don't stop 'till you get the whole truth! THEN decide what you want to do."