Unpaid Internships?
Columnist Richard Rys of Philadelphia Magazine recently wrote a piece arguing that unpaid internships are the new entry-level job.
Rys stated that:
It’s not enough to simply have a college degree. Companies know that students need internships for resume building. Why pay them when the demand is already so high?
As a student who has taken two unpaid internships in the past, I am partial to agree with Rys. In today's job market, internships can be more valuable than even a college education, and companies recognize this. In fact, they are so cognizant of this that they realize, in many cases, they don't even have to pay their interns anything.
Me, I'm fine with the idea of unpaid internships because I view internships as an extension of my education, and thankfully worked hard enough during high school to afford income-less summers.
However, for many this is not the case. Some can't afford to take an unpaid internship. And for students who don't view internships as an extension of their education, their argument against unpaid internships are vaild -it's free work.
What do you all think? For the older crowd, I understand that internships are a newer development and weren't as important when you all were in college. Today, however, if I was a soon-to-be college graduate without any internship experience, I would be very concerned about entering the job market.
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Jun '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
I'm 52 and employers were just as happy to see ice-cream scooper on your fresh-out-of-college resume as some industry-related work. It was all about showing you had initiative and earned some money for yourself while obviously understanding the need to follow the orders of your boss, contribute in a meaningful way to the business that hired you, and show up on time. My first job was in publishing, so writing samples from the college newspaper and class assignments, combined with a 40 hour per week job as a cashier, were sufficient to convince employers that I had been tested enough to warrant an entry level job.
Times have changed, and I think it is terribly exploitative of you college-aged kids. Not to mention their parents (me!) who must then pay the tuition for the number of credits the unpaid internship will count for. A pox on the businesses, non-profits, and colleges who colluded to create this scam.
Re: Unpaid Internships?
It's funny you bring this up because I overheard a classmate the other day telling another that he is considering staying in school an extra semester past his expected graduation in May in order to have a summer with an internship before he graduates, as he had not had an internship up to this point. His rationale was that, without an internship, employers will not give you consideration just for graduating from college.
I too have had a couple unpaid internship (one which was essentially an internship that I paid to do, as it forced me to spend a summer in New York as well as pay for the college credits I received). I agree with Nico's view on internships: they're an extension of my education. Similarly though, no one has forced me to accept an unpaid intern, so I've chosen to take the risks and pressures that come without a steady income by balancing that with the professional experience that I'll gain that will pay off later down the road.
Ultimately, I think the argument revolves around the fact that a college education has become devalued over the past couple of generations.
Jun '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
Yes, a college education has become devalued. Corporate HR departments are always looking for ways to seperate the wheat from the chaff, and internships can provide confirmation of a candidate's potential, as often the degree can be earned by studying meaningless fluff that's rewarded with inflated GPAs & honors designations. But corporations are the big winners here. Because unpaid internships are now the norm, they don't have to hire new grads, provide benefits & salary, and then worry about a discrimination lawsuit being filed if the kid doesn't work out.
The amount of debt college kids take on today is staggering. The pressure to take these internships so you can stand out from the crowd means more debt builds as opportunities to earn even a token salary shrink. It's terrible that kids and their parents who often pay a quarter million for the degree have to pile internship costs (such as Andrew's NYC housing & transportation) on top of that.
Feb '11
Re: Unpaid Internships?
Nico, are you married? Have kids? Does your wife work?? Maybe she's a student?
If your answers are yes, yes, no, yes - not unreasonable for someone your age - you must have done very very well in those high school jobs.
Re: Unpaid Internships?
These unpaid internships only work if you come from a family with enough wealth to subsidize your living expenses while you do them.
These were already a feature of working life when I graduated college. There was absolutely no way in the world I could afford to do them and it had a pretty significant impact on my career path.
That's just the way it is, but I can't say I'm a big fan of them.
Dec '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
It depends honestly.
If you are during it for the summer between semesters than its probably worth it as a couple internships on your resume make getting your first job about 20 times easier.
On the other hand unpaid internship means that there is very little incentive for the company to give you actual quality work to do.
Personally as someone who had internships and had friends who didn't; the difference in ease of getting your first job with some internships under your belt vs trying to land your first gig without them is pretty huge. I think its worth it
As to the issue of affordability. What are we comparing it to? No an unpaid internship isn't better than working, but its better than sitting at home unemployed, cheaper than going to school, and in many cases its breaks even with working a minimum wage job once you take into account how much faster you will be able to land a professional job with internships than without them.
Edited on September 14, 2011 at 7:50pmJun '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
Oddly, a company can have unpaid interns. But if the company tries to pay them a less-than-minimum wage stipend ... uh, oh. Big trouble.
What is wrong with this picture?
Mar '11
Re: Unpaid Internships?
Ross Perlin's recent book on the subject, Intern Nation, is reviewed here in the Weekly Standard.
Apr '11
Re: Unpaid Internships?
I think internships should be allowed to count for college credit. To me, the point of college is to prepare yourself for life in the working world. I would venture to guess that giving out credit would help reduce the strain on resources at the colleges and help keep costs down. Interns gain real world experience and the employers get potential future employees that can be trained for free during the period that they are the least valuable to the company anyway.
Jul '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
Nyadnar17:
Personally as someone who had internships and had friends who didn't; the difference in ease of getting your first job with some internships under your belt vs trying to land your first gig without them is pretty huge. I think its worth it
Unless you're talking about getting a job at the place you interned for, I don't believe this to be true. I would look at a resume with an internship on it with suspicion if the person then didn't get a job there after graduation. Why didn't they hire him?
Why internship at all? Why not just get a real job?
Is it now beneath the college students to move furniture, paint houses, or serve food?
Dec '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
Michael Tee
I would look at a resume with an internship on it with suspicion if the person then didn't get a job there after graduation. Why didn't they hire him?
Why internship at all? Why not just get a real job?
Is it now beneath the college students to move furniture, paint houses, or serve food? · Sep 14 at 11:46am
So if you get two resumes, one with summer internships on it and one without you would be more inclined to hire the person with no internships?
Its not easy to get your first "real job". Getting your foot in the door is the hardest part of many industries. Its the old need experience to get experience catch-22. As to why the person didn't get hired, there are a multitude of reasons. The person wasn't going to be finished with school by the end of the internship, the company had a hiring freeze, the person didn't like the company, etc. Not getting a job offer at the end of an internship doesn't mean you did a bad job.
Feb '11
Re: Unpaid Internships?
Unpaid internships are a complete rip off. Employers get free labor and people looking for work with pay are shut out.
Nov '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
I disagree. I'm a working economist and run strategic planning for a $3.5 billion division of a Fortune 100 company. We offer unpaid internships, but contract with schools to offer academic credit for the intern. We also ensure the intern gets access to some of our higher level meetings with VP's & SVP's to see them interact and the way they think. Additionally, we give the intern mock interviews to help her (assume her) develop interview skills, and get her time with our managers who are very good at people development to help focus her development. We try to balance her workload between one interesting project (say, competitive profiles) and one grunt-work project, say database consolidation. Lastly, if the intern does a good job we send her off with a letter of recommendation. I'd say she gets more out of the internship than we do, especially the competitive advantage it might give her in the job market. For us, internships don't replace full time employment.
Feb '11
Re: Unpaid Internships?
My daughter paid $3500 to the University to work (intern) for 500 hours this summer at the city government. No internship, no degree.
Feb '11
Re: Unpaid Internships?
Copperfield
I disagree. We offer unpaid internships, but contract with schools to offer academic credit for the intern. We also ensure the intern gets access to some of our higher level meetings with VP's & SVP's to see them interact and the way they think. ... We try to balance her workload between one interesting project (say, competitive profiles) and one grunt-work project, say database consolidation. Lastly, if the intern does a good job we send her off with a letter of recommendation. ,,,. For us, internships don't replace full time employment. · Sep 14 at 12:45pm
Who would be doing the data base consolidation if it was not the intern? Either it does not need to be done, or you would be paying someone to do it.
Jun '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
Copperfield
We offer unpaid internships, but contract with schools to offer academic credit for the intern. · Sep 14 at 12:45pm
I don't know of any internships that can't count for academic credit. The question is, does your company pay the tuition to the college? Or does the student/parent?
Trust me, if an unpaid internship meant the student didn't get a check at the end of the semester, but the comany paid the tuition for three (or whatever the assignment was judged to be worth) credits to the college, I'd be doing a happy dance. Cartwheels even!
Jun '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
Justin, this is the perfect example of what I mean by collusion. It's a scam. Plain and simple. The students and parents often have no choice in the matter.
And speaking of scams ---- how about on-campus jobs. At my daughter's college, 90% of them are only offered to kids who qualify for need-based financial aid. She was approached and offered two different jobs by program directors who each wanted her to be their assistant. She was unable to accept, despite the efforts of the directors, because she's not poor enough (or her dumb parents are too honest to hide income & assets.) Why should her parents' income have anything at all to do with her qualifications for a job????
Jun '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
Keep costs down for whom? If a student takes a three credit course and it fits into her allotted number per semester (usually 12 to 18) it's just part of her tuition bill for the semester. She doesn't have any additional costs, such as transportation or business attire, as is the case when three of those credits are from an internship. If, like my daughter, the internship is worked in addition to her normal 18 credit semester load, Mom & Dad have to cough up at least $3K if credit is to be applied to her degree. In her case it's just a subway ride, but many kids need cars, gas, or summer apartments and assorted additional expenses just to join the party.
I'm sounding a loud Bronx cheer for unpaid internships.
Dec '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
"we give the intern mock interviews to help her (assume her)"
Yes I will assume her, another way that modern society mistreats young men.
Edited on September 15, 2011 at 12:17amDec '10
Re: Unpaid Internships?
"we give the intern mock interviews to help her (assume her)"
Yes I will assume her, another way that modern society mistreats young men.
Edited on September 15, 2011 at 12:17am