UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
I watched this video with incredulity:
It matters not one whit whether the students hold disagreeable opinions. No one of common sense can watch that video and say, "That's just how the cops should have handled that."
More to the point, unless you feel like tossing "rule of law" into the toilet, and I presume we're not there yet, the courts have ruled under relevantly similar circumstances that this constitutes excessive force--and the police should have known that. This was thoroughly hashed out in Headwaters Forest Defense v. County of Humboldt:
In addition, regional and state-wide police practice and protocol clearly suggest that using pepper spray against nonviolent protestors is excessive. The law regarding a police officer's use of force against a passive individual was sufficiently clear at the time of the events at issue in this case that the defendants cannot claim qualified immunity on the ground that they made a reasonable mistake of law. See Saucier, 121 S.Ct. at 2158.
If they didn't know it, they failed Policing 101. From the archives of The Police Chief: Chief's Counsel: Police Use of Force: The Problem of Passive Resistance:
In conclusion, passive resistance strategies can create difficulties for law enforcement officials attempting to intervene in protests and demonstrations. Usually the severity of the crime being committed is minimal; nonviolent protestors generally pose no immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others; the protestors do not actively resist arrest; and the protestors invite arrest, rather than attempting to evade arrest by flight. For these reasons, when confronting passive resistance strategies during protests and demonstrations, law enforcement officials must carefully select use-of-force tactics and properly control their application.
You know what else common sense says? If the students want to camp in the quad, let them. UC Davis Police Chief objected to it on the grounds that it wasn't safe. This doesn't look like an improvement, does it? So they camp in the quad. If I were a parent, "camping in the quad" would be the least of my worries about dumb, dangerous things my kid might do.
- Comment (150)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (11)
Comments:
Apr '11
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
I really don't care.
A left wing group advocating for the expansion of government power is maltreated by government union members who have insulated themselves from accountability for their actions.
Doesn't involve me at all.
They deserve each other.
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
I recall that you found the sense of general complacency in America troubling. Don't you feel that you've just expressed that very complacency? "I don't care," after all, is a phrase that suggests something less than passion.
Nov '10
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
“First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist; Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist; Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew; Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me.” ― Martin Niemöller
Feb '11
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
If I'm a college dean, and I know that these protests come with rape, murder, TB, drugs, and worst of all...drum circles, I might want to take extreme measures to nip it in the bud. Prudence I'd say. "Tossing the rule of law" not so sure.
Mar '11
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
The video shows outnumbered cops following orders to end the tent city. I have read about the incident and the police were ordered by the university to clear the quad. Whether we like it or not, pepper spray is used to make it easier for the police to arrest an individual who is resisting arrest. They were not sitting passively waiting to be arrested which happens in many protests. When you lock arms, the police have to pry you apart from the people you are linked to. Unfortunately, that makes you an easy target for anyone in arms reach. Police don't need to put themselves in harms way.
Oct '10
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
Well...as a former police officer, I understand that use of force rarely looks pleasant, but I'm still not seeing an issue with this use of chemical agents. The advantage of chemical agents is that they are temporarily disabling and can allow police officers to use much less force than they normally would have to use.
So if you have a group of people who have made the decision to resist arrest no matter how passively, the police now have to make a decision on how to effect the arrest. If they aren't going to use chemical agents, they're left with hands on force methods that can result in injury to the officers and the folks they are arresting.
This video show a very controlled and professional police team making arrests in a manner that minimizes injury for all involved.
Now whether they should have been ordered in to make the arrests in the first place is an open question that I have no opinion on and the video doesn't really provide much context to help out.
Claire, while I don't agree with you, I can understand how this looks and respect your opinion.
Apr '11
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
It's not complacency; it's instead the sense that I'm not involved in this controversy at all.
I have no sympathy for #OWS nor do I have any sympathy for the police, who, among other public unions, are bankrupting the state of California.
We are witnessing the break down of civil society in the U.S., and in this particular clash, I simply don't care who's right or wrong. The breakdown is the bigger thing.
Apr '11
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
Bah. Cry me a river (Ha! Get it!)
I have about as much sympathy for these spoiled brats as they have for the law abiding citizens they inconvenience and the taxpayers who pay to clean up their messes.
I also don't give a flap 'n hoot what some - presumably - leftist judges had to say on such matters. Do you really think we should just give in to their anarchy and let them do whatever the hell they want? I'm sure that logic would work when the taxman shows up on my own property to take my hard earned money. If I "passively resist" will he just go away?
These animals were causing a nuisance on public property. The cops told them to move. They refused. For the first time in their self indulgent, pampered lives a poor decision was met with an unpleasant consequence. Welcome to the real world! They should now rejoice that they live in America. In other countries they would have been simply mowed down or run over with tanks.
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
No one with common sense is really worried about a TB epidemic breaking out among kids who go camping in the quad at UC Davis.
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
Cutlass:
I also don't give a flap 'n hoot what some - presumably - leftist judges had to say on such matters.
Interesting. I hear that attitude about "rule of law" all the time in Turkey.
May '10
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
Governments, the "Tea Party," the 99% in general have been very restrained. Governments particularly have, for whatever reasons, been too restrained.
When the reaction comes, we should not be surprised if it is an overreaction (if this was an overreaction, given Publius' take on the matter).
The UC Davis cops may be overgeneralizing, "we don't want what happened in Oakland or Zucotti Park, or wherever to happen here, so we're going to clamp down fast and hard."
The Left pushes, pushes, pushes, and pushes. When the pushback comes, as it inevitably will, it's going to be hard, and it's going to be the start of something very ugly.
Mar '11
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
Miss Berlinski, Please lets hear the entire story? Tell us about Ruckus, etal, that trained the protest leaders. Tell us about the training in how to provoke the cops and how to engineer martyrs. Tell us about the college wanting the protest to quit trespassing. Turn on the cameras during the events leading up to the pepper spray. And hide the events after the spraying so we don't see the body language of the cops and protestors. The protesters came to provoke the police and get manhandled. They got their wishes fullfilled. The cops came to answer the call of a citizen for police protection, they enforced the law and left peaceably.
Ron
Apr '11
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
To whom is this directed? These people were teargassed because they broke the law and resisted arrest. I do not speak out (for them) because when people on my side protest they easily avoid being teargassed because they are able to express their views without breaking the law.
Frankly, I find it obscene to pull out that quote with regard to this situation.
Apr '11
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
Since we're letting the hyperbole fly, I might add that many in Turkey take an opposite view when it comes to "Peace Flotillas."
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Cutlass:
I also don't give a flap 'n hoot what some - presumably - leftist judges had to say on such matters.
Interesting. I hear that attitude about "rule of law" all the time in Turkey. · Nov 19 at 5:35am
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
Publius: Well...as a former police officer, I understand that use of force rarely looks pleasant, but I'm still not seeing an issue with this use of chemical agents. The advantage of chemical agents is that they are temporarily disabling and can allow police officers to use much less force than they normally would have to use.
... Claire, while I don't agree with you, I can understand how this looks and respect your opinion. · Nov 19 at 5:17am
My opinion is one thing, the opinion of the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit is another. Perhaps there's some way that this isn't relevantly similar, but I don't see it.
Apr '11
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
Claire, to clarify my point, read this post at Reason's blog. Much of American politics of the future will center around the clash between youthful leftists and elderly statists over entitlements and the functioning of an overwhelming government.
I have no dog in that fight.
Therefore, I don't care who wins or loses.
Oct '10
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
I'm guessing we're seeing the use of Oleoresin Capsicum which is pretty miserable stuff, but very safe. You could put it on your food it you wanted to do it, but there are better hot sauce options available. Generally part of law enforcement basic training involved getting hit with this stuff. You can head over to Youtube and see any number of police officers and military people getting sprayed with it as part of their training. You'll also notice that much of the training involved keeping the recruit active and fighting while being sprayed. That's for two reasons, one it shows that just because someone has been sprayed it doesn't mean they aren't still a threat. It also shows that if you get hit with your own chemical agent (good chance of that) that you have to keep going so you don't get hurt.
It's not 100 percent that when you use OC that it will stop an attack, I've had people continue to resist, but it's a good tool compared to impact weapons\hands on force.
Apr '11
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
These days, Becoming a police officer or a prosecutor looks very much like acquiring a title of nobility. They live under different laws than the rest of us.
Ignorance of the law is an excuse, if you're a police officer. If a police officer believes he is following the law in the course of his duties, he cannot be prosecuted even if in fact his actions violated the law. Prosecutors have absolute immunity. Even if a prosecutor knowingly violates the law in the course of his duties, he cannot be prosecuted. Period.
I've long advocated a good faith exception for citizens. If there is no mens rea, there is no crime. Give citizens the same qualified immunity enjoyed by the police. End absolute immunity for prosecutors. Replace it with qualified immunity.
We conservatives want Congress to stop exempting themselves from the laws. We should ask the same of the Executive Branch. The people who enforce the law, police and prosecutors, should live under the same laws as the rest of us, should be judged by the same standards.
Conservatives should be wary of the exercise of government power in all its forms, including police powers.
Oct '10
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
It could very well be that this use of force violated some sort of rule or standing court ruling. I wasn't a police officer in that circuit or state so I don't know how California views this sort of thing. The use of force can vary from state to state. For example, back when I was on the job, some states were just fine with lateral vascular neck restraint (LVNR) and others considered it deadly force.
Prohibiting safe non-lethal force like chemical agents in these situations would be deeply unwise given that the other available non-lethal options (hands on pain compliance techniques, hands on use of force striking techniques, impact weapons like PR-24 compliance holds, etc) greatly increase the chance of injury and escalation of force on both sides.
Re: UC Davis Cops: That's Illegal
Publius
I'm guessing we're seeing the use of Oleoresin Capsicum which is pretty miserable stuff, but very safe. You could put it on your food it you wanted to do it, but there are better hot sauce options available.
I've been sprayed with OC a lot (enough to know I'm among the lucky small percentage who barely even notices it; I usually only figure out that they're using it because I see other people coughing), and I'm well aware that it has appropriate uses. This wasn't one of them. At most, that looked like a situation where the kids should have been issued a warning that if they kept obstructing the way, they'd be ticketed.