Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
From today's Wall Street Journal:
On Aug. 31, the Federal Aviation Administration requested public comment on its longstanding policy of prohibiting the use of personal electronics during takeoffs and landings. The restrictions date back to 1991 and were motivated in part by anecdotal reports from pilots and flight crews that electronic devices affected an airliner's navigation equipment or disrupted communication between the cockpit and the ground. Over the years, however, Boeing has been unable to duplicate these problems, and the FAA can only say that the devices' radio signals "may" interfere with flight operations.
The requirement that we all turn off our electronic devices to quit texting or playing games or listening to iTunes--or, still more to the point, enjoying the latest Ricochet podcast--accounts for a large component of the growing unpleasantness of airplane travel. Some flight attendants take to it only too naturally, but even those who seem vaguely embarrassed by the entire exercise find themselves forced to stroll up and down the aisle before every takeoff and landings, acting like Nurse Ratchett. Why put them through it? Why put us through it?
Now we know. For no good reason.
There is no serious evidence whatever that electronic devices interfere with navigational gear. The FAA knows it. Boeing knows it. And we've always sensed it ourselves, haven't we? But for more than two decades federal regulators have forced us all to go through this mad charade every time we fly.
Paul Ryan, once you get elected, you'll discover that a Vice President doesn't actually have all that much to do. With time on your hands, could you get this stupid regulation repealed? Please?
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Comments:
Jun '12
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
Nah, we'll ask Joe Biden to get it repealed. <wink>
Jan '11
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
I take a little comfort in the fact that the FAA is at least willing to admit that the policy might be wrong, and are requesting comment.
I'm more likely to ask Raul Ryan to help change the "culture of regulation." Regulate-first-prove-later doesn't seem to be a smart way to go.
Like the old golf bromide "drive for show, putt for dough," I've always thought that lobbyists worked with politicians only as a way to keep up appearances. They make their real money with regulators.
Oct '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
What is exquisitely absurd about this is that one is prohibited from using a device such as an iPad or Kindle which can be placed in a “flight safe” mode in which it emits no electromagnetic radiation whatsoever (apart from incidental emissions, which are stringently tested by the FCC and other regulators and completely negligible), and yet one knows that, say, 5% of clueless passengers have left their mobile phones on in their briefcases and handbags, which are plaintively trying to contact a base station throughout the flight, on frequencies which one can plausibly argue might heterodyne to interfere with GPS signals.
Of course, it is absurd that a mobile phone inside the aircraft (which is close to a Faraday cage, even if of composite construction [due to lightning strike requirements]) could interfere with reception by a GPS antenna outside the fuselage, and even if it did, the crew would be, at most, alerted to loss of GPS and fall back to backup navigation. Besides, if powered-on mobile phones were a risk to aviation, airliners would be raining from the sky on a daily basis.
Like everything emanating from “the authorities”, it's nonsense.
Oct '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
Wait until the Obamacare regulators determine that all those electronic devices, like pacemakers and insulin pumps, are an unnecessary impediment to airport scanners and eliminate the "problem" from your life. And, oh!, the cost savings.
Sep '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
The policy is so absurd, it's hard to know where to begin.
John Walker, above, outlined some of the technical reasons why the ban is silly. There are many more. The most dangerous emissions are from the authorities, not from electronic devices.
Apr '11
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
I never bother to with turning off my devices. I put them in flight mode (this helps to conserve battery life any way) and no stewardess has ever bothered me. Like all silly government requests this is best handled by ignoring it.
Oct '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
My understanding was that the point of the rule was for people to be alert (relatively) during those parts of the flight, or at least not distracted. In any event, is it really a nuisance? You can use an iPad, by the way, during the flight.
Jul '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
I was going to comment on the absurdity of these regulations given what we know about how electronics actually work, but John Walker hit one out of the park with post #3.
Jul '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
It would not surprise me if that hasn't been used as an explanation at some point, but it's demonstrably not true. If they didn't want people to be distracted they wouldn't let you read a book, do a crossword puzzle, or anything else at all during takeoff and landing. You get the impression in asking airline employees the rationale for it that they don't even believe the lines they're trained to use.
Jul '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
drlorentz: The policy is so absurd, it's hard to know where to begin.
John Walker, above, outlined some of the technical reasons why the ban is silly. There are many more. The most dangerous emissions are from the authorities, not from electronic devices. · 14 minutes ago
There was even a period early on in the life if e-readers where they didn't make you turn them off at all because they didn't even know what they were.
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
@John Walker provides the definitive technical analysis of the utter stupidity of the electronic devices ban at comment #3 above.
The ban grates on me like nails across a chalkboard several times in a typical week. The problem? Despite my love of paper-and-ink books, I put my reading material on my iPad for the enormous cumulative savings in weight. But each leg of any trip is bracketed by a variable period (depending on ATC flow) below 10,000 feet when "electronic devices" are banned, leaving me to test how well I've memorized the month's Hemispheres magazine.
I've got an idea for the Romney campaign: pick ending the ban as a signature issue symbolic of general federal regulatory overreach. To this day, as I cruise down the local Interstate highway at a legal 65 mph, I never fail to think of Newt Gingrich and his Contract With America that abolished the national 55 mph speed limit. Why not do something similar in this election?
Aug '11
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
Peter, Paul Ryan will be busier than a one-armed paper hanger with the itch immediately after being elected. Romney will use Ryan like Bush used Cheney: to handle important matters with the attention a president simply can't give. I don't think turning off electronic devices on take-off and landing falls within the purview of important matters.
May '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
All they need to do, if they insist on any regulation for fail-safe reasons (remember how clever ambulance chaser attorneys are), is to have a pulse signal from the aircraft that shuts off the wireless systems of electronic devices. There is no reason whatever for a "wireless off" Kindle to be put away.
Sep '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
True. Anyway, the prohibition on the use of these devices is mostly observed in the breach. Peter, you don't actually turn them off, do you?
May '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
I want the useless rules to continue. I do not want to HAVE to sit next to multiple people having phone conversations for hours on end.
Apr '11
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
I have know for several years that the ban was bogus and have generally ignored it. Between travelers forgetting to turn off their phones, ignoring the ban and not knowing how to turn off their phones, I figure at least 20% of devices are on during flights.
As others have pointed out, the lack of crashes demonstrates the bogasity of the ban.
I did hear once that the cell phone companies also supported the ban since the flying cell phones confused the cell towers.
But I think it might come down to a control thing. Like in Hospitals where for years they tried to ban cell phone use since it might interfere with equipment. But nobody could point out what equipment and how. So I generally ignored the rule in hospitals and now I think most hospitals have given up on the ban.
Sep '11
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
Peter, where can I comment on this rule? I want to make sure this rule is kept in force.
Why? Cell phones.
Your cell phone is a radio device. It is constantly evaluating the signal strength to the nearby towers, and seeking to "register with" the strongest signal. Each tower will host a limited number of phones--so many actually "in call," and so many others that are not in use. When a tower is overwhelmed with calls, it will reject new connect requests, and may redirect some phones to other towers.
This works when phones move into and out of cell range at relatively low speeds. When you have 125 cell phones packed into a single aluminum tube, traveling at 250 knots just 6,000 feet above the ground (as, for instance, planes on approach to Newark/Liberty International fly across New Jersey) you will overwhelm every cell tower along I-80 for 50 miles. At peak times, you'll repeat this every two minutes--effectively wiping out cell service.
Cell phones have to stay off--or local cell service near major airports will be wiped out. Can't deal with it? Buy a Gameboy.
Oct '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
Compared with the indignity of security theatre it is, I submit, negligible.
Oct '10
Re: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
Regarding comments 16-18, I don't think the regulation in question involves allowing cell phone use as phones. I think it only speaks to the regulation banning electronics up to 10,000 feet, beyond which all electronics are allowed but cell phone use still is not. I think it's a different regulation that would have to be changed in order to allow cell phone use as phones in flight.
Edited on September 8, 2012 at 10:27pmRe: Turn Off All Electronic Devices? Suppose We Turned Off the Feds Instead
As I sit in the Omaha airport after practically disrobing for the jack-booted TSA thugs and reading this, I say, "Great post, Mr. Robinson!"