Tuesday's Open Question
James Poulos ·
Jun 8, 2010 at 10:43am
The End of Men. The Death of Macho. Househusbands Are Our Future.
Maybe not. But it's all enough to make you ask --
What's manliness today? What's it do? What's it for?
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Comments :
May '10
Re: Tuesday's Open Question
This all brought back the memories of last Saturday, when I vacuumed the house, cleaned the upholstery, and then took a tiny 12 pound Shi Tzu out for a walk before cooking dinner.
Reihan Salam did a good job of looking at all of the different cultural possibilities- he even covered China and noticed the reality that the colossus of cheap manufacturing has some challenges ahead of it; he actually got to the basic issue- that the surplus of young men (in my opinion) is going to blow the country up within one generation rather than vaulting them far ahead of the dissipated US.
But are they all correct about the total picture? Yes, as long as women decide that they don't particularly like men. There are some innate differences between genders that can move in either direction.
I do not expect the future societal war to be between women and men- I expect that it will be between the women who like men and the women who don't care about them. We guys are most likely to be pawns in this ultimate battle.
May '10
Re: Tuesday's Open Question
A friend who is a pastor came up with the following list that seems to me to hit all the important points.
May '10
Re: Tuesday's Open Question
Manliness is self-control, responsibility, and strength. The chicks dig it. They always have. They always will.
May '10
Re: Tuesday's Open Question
Scott, some do, some don't, I think; I agree that those are desirable traits and ought to rule and make the guys very appealing. But so often, they do not, and not necessarily only for immature women. Elvis was not popular because he was like a little puppy-dog.
For me the eternal anomalous reality is that so many females are attracted to Bad Boys. "Bad Boy" syndrome is famous in psychiatric circles as the ones who win out over the nice guys:
http://www.ivillage.co.uk/relationships/dating/love/articles/0,,141_653671,00.html
Often there is some strength of a type, but certainly no self-control or responsibility. And it is amazing how many cases arise where those women who select the nice guy take advantage of him afterward.
Re: Tuesday's Open Question
I think your suggestion is very well taken, Scott, that nature is more difficult to overcome than it's fashionable to think. In fact, I predict that all this heavy breathing about The End of Men is a creature not so much of 'our time' or 'History' but of something much more cyclical -- fashion. Today, all things female are very much in fashion. That's not to say femininity is in -- I'm talking sex, not gender; we even want masculine girls. From advertising to consumerism to lesbian chic and on and on and on, we're reveling in our ability to use females as incredibly capacious receptacles and mannequins for everything our culture can invent and do. Kids and work! Toughness and makeup! Romanticism and technophilia! Our fascination with the ability to do and be everything makes males look incomplete and maleness confining. Yes, cool, fun, subversive, empowering, whatever; just like all fashion. Get back to me in 15 years.
May '10
Re: Tuesday's Open Question
Turns out that modesty is again shown to be unappealing:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1284519/Why-modest-men-brush-women.html?ITO=1490
I think I was fortunate enough to meet my wife during the one period of my life when I wasn't shy and diffident (age 20). If it had been 5 years later, I'd probably still be single and spending all my evenings at the public library.
May '10
Re: Tuesday's Open Question
I think the predominant quality women like is self-confidence. Even if they really are not, Bad Boys at least appear to be self-confident. Men who have the qualities Scott listed (self-control, responsibility and strength) tend to have self-confidence, as well. And married women value different things than non-married women, especially if they have children.
What's pretty cool about Scott's list is that it says a lot about Scott...I already know Duane's a gem.
May '10
Re: Tuesday's Open Question
I'm late to the discussion. Just like a woman, I know! I don't know if I could define "manliness," but like Justice Stewart's description of obscenity - I know it when I see it. I like TL's/Mr. Clean's list. As a mom co-raising two men-in-the-making, I'm saving that. I think our education system has grown more biased against boys. Boys are naturally more kinesthetic in their learning styles. All the teaching to the test and rote memorization approaches are challenging to anyone's interest in learning, but especially boys. That's one reason why many boys don't further their educations. But women will never dominate the job force. I know few women who would rather work in a middle class job, than stay home with her children if they could afford it. There are many women with post-graduate degrees and established careers that married and had children later, who prefer staying home.